Empathy List Archives

RC

RPPTL CLC-Discussion

Thu, Mar 2, 2023 3:57 AM

Evening all. I have a license question. If a sub, let's say an unlicensed underground contractor doing curbs, drains, and asphalt, signs a subcontract with a licensed GC. Is that sub automatically "covered" by the GC's license such that it does not need its own license to perform that work? If so, or if not, can someone point me to the statute, rule or regulation that requires that sub to have its own license? Thank you.

Regards,

Alex Barthet
Board Certified in Construction Law
TheLienZone Construction Law Bloghttp://thelienzone.com/
Biographyhttps://barthet.com/member/alex-barthet/

The Barthet Firm
200 S. Biscayne Blvd., Suite 1650
Miami, Florida 33131
305-347-5295 (direct line)
alex@barthet.com mailto:alex@barthet.com
www.barthet.com http://www.barthet.com/

This electronic communication may contain privileged, confidential, or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of the intended recipient, please delete this communication and notify the sender. Thank you.

Evening all. I have a license question. If a sub, let's say an unlicensed underground contractor doing curbs, drains, and asphalt, signs a subcontract with a licensed GC. Is that sub automatically "covered" by the GC's license such that it does not need its own license to perform that work? If so, or if not, can someone point me to the statute, rule or regulation that requires that sub to have its own license? Thank you. Regards, Alex Barthet Board Certified in Construction Law TheLienZone Construction Law Blog<http://thelienzone.com/> Biography<https://barthet.com/member/alex-barthet/> The Barthet Firm 200 S. Biscayne Blvd., Suite 1650 Miami, Florida 33131 305-347-5295 (direct line) alex@barthet.com<mailto:alex@barthet.com> www.barthet.com<http://www.barthet.com/> This electronic communication may contain privileged, confidential, or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of the intended recipient, please delete this communication and notify the sender. Thank you.

RC

RPPTL CLC-Discussion

Thu, Mar 2, 2023 1:54 PM

Here are some initial thoughts to kick off discussion on the always fun ch. 489 licensure questions:

It is not clear where the asphalt, curb and drain work is taking place. Assuming this scope is being performed as part of street or road construction, there would be no ch. 489 licensure issue due to the exemption from Part 1 of ch. 489 found at Fla. Stat. s. 489.103(1).
Assuming the work is taking place in a parking lot or location other than a road or street, it gets interesting:
Starting with the definitions found at Fla. Stat. s. 489.105, work on asphalt and curbs does not appear to expressly fall within any of the listed licensure descriptions applicable to Division II contractors under s. 489.105(3)(d)-(o). Assuming the reference to "drains" refers to stormwater drains, the work on drains appears to fall within the "storm sewer collection system" scope of work applicable to an underground utility and excavation contractor at Fla. Stat. s. 489.105(3)(n).
After working through the statutory definitions, the next relevant portion of ch. 489 appears to be Fla. Stat. s. 489.113. Under Fla. Stat. s. 489.113(2), an unlicensed subcontractor may work under the supervision of a licensed contractor under the following conditions: (i) the work is within the scope of the supervising contractor's license, (ii) the supervising contractor is responsible for the work, and (iii) the unlicensed subcontractor being supervised is not performing work for which a contractor must be licensed as a Division II contractor under s. 489.105(3)(d)-(o).
Under Fla. Stat. s. 489.113(3)(d), a CGC may perform any of the services for which a license as an underground utility and excavation contractor is required. Accordingly, romanette (i) above is satisfied. Satisfying romanette (ii) above should not be a heavy lift assuming the CGC is on the site permit and is contracted to the Owner. The analysis of romanette (iii) above is tricky. On the one hand, stormwater collection system work such as storm drains appears to fall within the licensure scope of an underground utility contractor pursuant to 489.105(3)(n). On the other hand, stormwater collection system work may expressly be performed by a CGC and is not restricted to the Division II underground utility license. It comes down to whether work on drains and stormwater collection systems is work "that would require a license as a contractor under any of the categories listed in s. 489.105(3)(d)-(o)". Since a CGC may lawfully perform such work, I would argue that drain work does not require a license under s. 489.105(3)(n) and accordingly romanette (iii) above is satisfied. This interpretation is bolstered by the text of s. 489.113(3) which lists various Division II scopes of work that a CGC must subcontract to a properly licensed Division II subcontractor. Missing from the list is the s. 489.105(3)(n) underground utility and excavation contractor scope.
In sum, I believe there is a credible argument that an unlicensed sub working under a CGC may perform the asphalt, curb and drain scopes under the supervision of the CGC without violating ch. 489.

Michael Gibbons
Shareholder
215 N. Eola Dr. | Orlando, FL 32801
D: 407.418.6378 | P: 407.843.4600 | Ext: 1378
Emailmailto:Michael.Gibbons@lowndes-law.com | Websitehttp://lowndes-law.com | Bio<lowndes-law.com/people-detail/client/Michael-Gibbons> | vCardhttps://lowndeslaw.dpmlocal.com/admin/vcard/generate.php?id=64

[cid:image001.png@01D94CE4.86654AE0]
LOCAL ROOTS. BROAD REACH. SM

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Wednesday, March 1, 2023 10:58 PM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: [CLC-Discussion] License Question

CAUTION: THIS IS AN EXTERNAL EMAIL

Evening all. I have a license question. If a sub, let's say an unlicensed underground contractor doing curbs, drains, and asphalt, signs a subcontract with a licensed GC. Is that sub automatically "covered" by the GC's license such that it does not need its own license to perform that work? If so, or if not, can someone point me to the statute, rule or regulation that requires that sub to have its own license? Thank you.

Regards,

Alex Barthet
Board Certified in Construction Law
TheLienZone Construction Law Bloghttps://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/vOv6Cv29QzuW1G2KiQNkG_/
Biographyhttps://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/vy30CwpR0ATL67A9cq5iRl/

The Barthet Firm
200 S. Biscayne Blvd., Suite 1650
Miami, Florida 33131
305-347-5295 (direct line)
alex@barthet.com mailto:alex@barthet.com
www.barthet.com https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/YqgUCyPJwDcNDg0kuR-vEF/

This electronic communication may contain privileged, confidential, or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of the intended recipient, please delete this communication and notify the sender. Thank you.

This email message has been delivered safely and archived online by Mimecast. For more information please visit http://www.mimecast.com

Here are some initial thoughts to kick off discussion on the always fun ch. 489 licensure questions: 1. It is not clear where the asphalt, curb and drain work is taking place. Assuming this scope is being performed as part of street or road construction, there would be no ch. 489 licensure issue due to the exemption from Part 1 of ch. 489 found at Fla. Stat. s. 489.103(1). 1. Assuming the work is taking place in a parking lot or location other than a road or street, it gets interesting: 1. Starting with the definitions found at Fla. Stat. s. 489.105, work on asphalt and curbs does not appear to expressly fall within any of the listed licensure descriptions applicable to Division II contractors under s. 489.105(3)(d)-(o). Assuming the reference to "drains" refers to stormwater drains, the work on drains appears to fall within the "storm sewer collection system" scope of work applicable to an underground utility and excavation contractor at Fla. Stat. s. 489.105(3)(n). 1. After working through the statutory definitions, the next relevant portion of ch. 489 appears to be Fla. Stat. s. 489.113. Under Fla. Stat. s. 489.113(2), an unlicensed subcontractor may work under the supervision of a licensed contractor under the following conditions: (i) the work is within the scope of the supervising contractor's license, (ii) the supervising contractor is responsible for the work, and (iii) the unlicensed subcontractor being supervised is not performing work for which a contractor must be licensed as a Division II contractor under s. 489.105(3)(d)-(o). 1. Under Fla. Stat. s. 489.113(3)(d), a CGC may perform any of the services for which a license as an underground utility and excavation contractor is required. Accordingly, romanette (i) above is satisfied. Satisfying romanette (ii) above should not be a heavy lift assuming the CGC is on the site permit and is contracted to the Owner. The analysis of romanette (iii) above is tricky. On the one hand, stormwater collection system work such as storm drains appears to fall within the licensure scope of an underground utility contractor pursuant to 489.105(3)(n). On the other hand, stormwater collection system work may expressly be performed by a CGC and is not restricted to the Division II underground utility license. It comes down to whether work on drains and stormwater collection systems is work "that would require a license as a contractor under any of the categories listed in s. 489.105(3)(d)-(o)". Since a CGC may lawfully perform such work, I would argue that drain work does not require a license under s. 489.105(3)(n) and accordingly romanette (iii) above is satisfied. This interpretation is bolstered by the text of s. 489.113(3) which lists various Division II scopes of work that a CGC must subcontract to a properly licensed Division II subcontractor. Missing from the list is the s. 489.105(3)(n) underground utility and excavation contractor scope. 1. In sum, I believe there is a credible argument that an unlicensed sub working under a CGC may perform the asphalt, curb and drain scopes under the supervision of the CGC without violating ch. 489. Michael Gibbons Shareholder 215 N. Eola Dr. | Orlando, FL 32801 D: 407.418.6378 | P: 407.843.4600 | Ext: 1378 Email<mailto:Michael.Gibbons@lowndes-law.com> | Website<http://lowndes-law.com> | Bio<lowndes-law.com/people-detail/client/Michael-Gibbons> | vCard<https://lowndeslaw.dpmlocal.com/admin/vcard/generate.php?id=64> [cid:image001.png@01D94CE4.86654AE0] LOCAL ROOTS. BROAD REACH. SM From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion Sent: Wednesday, March 1, 2023 10:58 PM To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org Subject: [CLC-Discussion] License Question CAUTION: THIS IS AN EXTERNAL EMAIL Evening all. I have a license question. If a sub, let's say an unlicensed underground contractor doing curbs, drains, and asphalt, signs a subcontract with a licensed GC. Is that sub automatically "covered" by the GC's license such that it does not need its own license to perform that work? If so, or if not, can someone point me to the statute, rule or regulation that requires that sub to have its own license? Thank you. Regards, Alex Barthet Board Certified in Construction Law TheLienZone Construction Law Blog<https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/vOv6Cv29QzuW1G2KiQNkG_/> Biography<https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/vy30CwpR0ATL67A9cq5iRl/> The Barthet Firm 200 S. Biscayne Blvd., Suite 1650 Miami, Florida 33131 305-347-5295 (direct line) alex@barthet.com<mailto:alex@barthet.com> www.barthet.com<https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/YqgUCyPJwDcNDg0kuR-vEF/> This electronic communication may contain privileged, confidential, or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of the intended recipient, please delete this communication and notify the sender. Thank you. This email message has been delivered safely and archived online by Mimecast. For more information please visit http://www.mimecast.com

RC

RPPTL CLC-Discussion

Thu, Mar 2, 2023 2:22 PM

I nominate Michael for the Certification Committee ☺

Bruce Partington | Shareholder
bpartington@clarkpartington.com mailto:bpartington@clarkpartington.com | (850) 432-1399callto:(850)%20432-1399

CLARK PARTINGTON
Office: (850) 434-9200 | Fax: (850) 432-7340
125 East Intendencia Street, 4th Floor
Pensacola, Florida 32502
clarkpartington.comhttps://clarkpartington.com/

[cid:logo4_09e57621-d955-46d0-aad5-1c620e3975ef.jpg]

[cid:Facebook_55598884-7995-4d93-92d3-5101d580d70c.png]https://www.facebook.com/ClarkPartington/ [cid:LinkedIn_57c89113-2875-479d-9fdd-fd3a2a809f98.png] https://www.linkedin.com/company/2250553/admin/ [cid:Twitter_216c94ca-a91c-458c-ad76-295500e4747c.png] https://twitter.com/ClarkPartington [cid:Instagram_c437b822-13ce-4d58-87bc-212014b134fa.png] https://www.instagram.com/clarkpartington/

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Thursday, March 2, 2023 7:54 AM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] License Question

Here are some initial thoughts to kick off discussion on the always fun ch. 489 licensure questions:

It is not clear where the asphalt, curb and drain work is taking place. Assuming this scope is being performed as part of street or road construction, there would be no ch. 489 licensure issue due to the exemption from Part 1 of ch. 489 found at Fla. Stat. s. 489.103(1).
Assuming the work is taking place in a parking lot or location other than a road or street, it gets interesting:

(a) Starting with the definitions found at Fla. Stat. s. 489.105, work on asphalt and curbs does not appear to expressly fall within any of the listed licensure descriptions applicable to Division II contractors under s. 489.105(3)(d)-(o). Assuming the reference to “drains” refers to stormwater drains, the work on drains appears to fall within the “storm sewer collection system” scope of work applicable to an underground utility and excavation contractor at Fla. Stat. s. 489.105(3)(n).

(b) After working through the statutory definitions, the next relevant portion of ch. 489 appears to be Fla. Stat. s. 489.113. Under Fla. Stat. s. 489.113(2), an unlicensed subcontractor may work under the supervision of a licensed contractor under the following conditions: (i) the work is within the scope of the supervising contractor’s license, (ii) the supervising contractor is responsible for the work, and (iii) the unlicensed subcontractor being supervised is not performing work for which a contractor must be licensed as a Division II contractor under s. 489.105(3)(d)-(o).

(c) Under Fla. Stat. s. 489.113(3)(d), a CGC may perform any of the services for which a license as an underground utility and excavation contractor is required. Accordingly, romanette (i) above is satisfied. Satisfying romanette (ii) above should not be a heavy lift assuming the CGC is on the site permit and is contracted to the Owner. The analysis of romanette (iii) above is tricky. On the one hand, stormwater collection system work such as storm drains appears to fall within the licensure scope of an underground utility contractor pursuant to 489.105(3)(n). On the other hand, stormwater collection system work may expressly be performed by a CGC and is not restricted to the Division II underground utility license. It comes down to whether work on drains and stormwater collection systems is work “that would require a license as a contractor under any of the categories listed in s. 489.105(3)(d)-(o)”. Since a CGC may lawfully perform such work, I would argue that drain work does not require a license under s. 489.105(3)(n) and accordingly romanette (iii) above is satisfied. This interpretation is bolstered by the text of s. 489.113(3) which lists various Division II scopes of work that a CGC must subcontract to a properly licensed Division II subcontractor. Missing from the list is the s. 489.105(3)(n) underground utility and excavation contractor scope.

(d) In sum, I believe there is a credible argument that an unlicensed sub working under a CGC may perform the asphalt, curb and drain scopes under the supervision of the CGC without violating ch. 489.

Michael Gibbons
Shareholder
215 N. Eola Dr. | Orlando, FL 32801
D: 407.418.6378 | P: 407.843.4600 | Ext: 1378
Emailmailto:Michael.Gibbons@lowndes-law.com | Websitehttps://link.edgepilot.com/s/0297fd59/WGt_5kPjvU_bZjQWqTFAKA?u=http://lowndes-law.com/ | Biohttps://link.edgepilot.com/s/ea2ea34a/4Bb0A_1TT0Su-idLnpyNOg?u=http://lowndes-law.com/people-detail/client/Michael-Gibbons | vCardhttps://link.edgepilot.com/s/a3050f91/FYqNp8HI-0_lwyHYKIbLQQ?u=https://lowndeslaw.dpmlocal.com/admin/vcard/generate.php?id=64

[cid:image001.png@01D94CE0.27564210]

LOCAL ROOTS. BROAD REACH. SM

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Wednesday, March 1, 2023 10:58 PM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: [CLC-Discussion] License Question

CAUTION: THIS IS AN EXTERNAL EMAIL

Evening all. I have a license question. If a sub, let’s say an unlicensed underground contractor doing curbs, drains, and asphalt, signs a subcontract with a licensed GC. Is that sub automatically “covered” by the GC’s license such that it does not need its own license to perform that work? If so, or if not, can someone point me to the statute, rule or regulation that requires that sub to have its own license? Thank you.

Regards,

Alex Barthet
Board Certified in Construction Law
TheLienZone Construction Law Bloghttps://link.edgepilot.com/s/55ec3259/D6gDkKXN1kSSjbIrsK4zAw?u=https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/vOv6Cv29QzuW1G2KiQNkG_/
Biographyhttps://link.edgepilot.com/s/12c90302/5XGLqg5TuEeBpZ9KofE6eg?u=https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/vy30CwpR0ATL67A9cq5iRl/

The Barthet Firm
200 S. Biscayne Blvd., Suite 1650
Miami, Florida 33131
305-347-5295 (direct line)
alex@barthet.com mailto:alex@barthet.com
https://link.edgepilot.com/s/535c9a1f/Rw-IZ36afkC1d2_WHqWtyg?u=http://www.barthet.com/https://link.edgepilot.com/s/b46817bc/2NcIw6uDPUCqO1Kmx3ygig?u=https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/YqgUCyPJwDcNDg0kuR-vEF/

This electronic communication may contain privileged, confidential, or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of the intended recipient, please delete this communication and notify the sender. Thank you.

Notice of Confidentiality: This e-mail communication and the attachment(s) hereto, if any, are intended solely for the information and use of the addressee(s) identified above and may contain information which is legally privileged from disclosure and/or otherwise confidential. If a recipient of this e-mail communication is not an addressee (or an authorized representative of an addressee), such recipient is hereby advised that any review, disclosure, reproduction, re-transmission or other dissemination or use of this e-mail communication (or any information contained herein) is strictly prohibited. If you are not an addressee and have received this e-mail communication in error, please advise the sender of that circumstance either by reply e-mail or by telephone at (800) 356-6818, immediately delete this e-mail communication from any computer and destroy all physical copies of same.

Replies Filtered: Any incoming reply to this e-mail communication or other e-mail communication to us will be electronically filtered for "spam" and/or "viruses." That filtering process may result in such reply or other e-mail communications to us being quarantined (i.e., potentially not received at our site at all) and/or delayed in reaching us. For that reason, we cannot guarantee that we will receive your reply or other e-mail communications to us and/or that we will receive the same in a timely manner. Accordingly, you should consider sending communications to us which are particularly important or time-sensitive by means other than e-mail.

[v4.30]

I nominate Michael for the Certification Committee ☺ Bruce Partington | Shareholder bpartington@clarkpartington.com<mailto:bpartington@clarkpartington.com> | (850) 432-1399<callto:(850)%20432-1399> CLARK PARTINGTON Office: (850) 434-9200 | Fax: (850) 432-7340 125 East Intendencia Street, 4th Floor Pensacola, Florida 32502 clarkpartington.com<https://clarkpartington.com/> [cid:logo4_09e57621-d955-46d0-aad5-1c620e3975ef.jpg] [cid:Facebook_55598884-7995-4d93-92d3-5101d580d70c.png]<https://www.facebook.com/ClarkPartington/> [cid:LinkedIn_57c89113-2875-479d-9fdd-fd3a2a809f98.png] <https://www.linkedin.com/company/2250553/admin/> [cid:Twitter_216c94ca-a91c-458c-ad76-295500e4747c.png] <https://twitter.com/ClarkPartington> [cid:Instagram_c437b822-13ce-4d58-87bc-212014b134fa.png] <https://www.instagram.com/clarkpartington/> From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion Sent: Thursday, March 2, 2023 7:54 AM To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] License Question Here are some initial thoughts to kick off discussion on the always fun ch. 489 licensure questions: 1. It is not clear where the asphalt, curb and drain work is taking place. Assuming this scope is being performed as part of street or road construction, there would be no ch. 489 licensure issue due to the exemption from Part 1 of ch. 489 found at Fla. Stat. s. 489.103(1). 1. Assuming the work is taking place in a parking lot or location other than a road or street, it gets interesting: (a) Starting with the definitions found at Fla. Stat. s. 489.105, work on asphalt and curbs does not appear to expressly fall within any of the listed licensure descriptions applicable to Division II contractors under s. 489.105(3)(d)-(o). Assuming the reference to “drains” refers to stormwater drains, the work on drains appears to fall within the “storm sewer collection system” scope of work applicable to an underground utility and excavation contractor at Fla. Stat. s. 489.105(3)(n). (b) After working through the statutory definitions, the next relevant portion of ch. 489 appears to be Fla. Stat. s. 489.113. Under Fla. Stat. s. 489.113(2), an unlicensed subcontractor may work under the supervision of a licensed contractor under the following conditions: (i) the work is within the scope of the supervising contractor’s license, (ii) the supervising contractor is responsible for the work, and (iii) the unlicensed subcontractor being supervised is not performing work for which a contractor must be licensed as a Division II contractor under s. 489.105(3)(d)-(o). (c) Under Fla. Stat. s. 489.113(3)(d), a CGC may perform any of the services for which a license as an underground utility and excavation contractor is required. Accordingly, romanette (i) above is satisfied. Satisfying romanette (ii) above should not be a heavy lift assuming the CGC is on the site permit and is contracted to the Owner. The analysis of romanette (iii) above is tricky. On the one hand, stormwater collection system work such as storm drains appears to fall within the licensure scope of an underground utility contractor pursuant to 489.105(3)(n). On the other hand, stormwater collection system work may expressly be performed by a CGC and is not restricted to the Division II underground utility license. It comes down to whether work on drains and stormwater collection systems is work “that would require a license as a contractor under any of the categories listed in s. 489.105(3)(d)-(o)”. Since a CGC may lawfully perform such work, I would argue that drain work does not require a license under s. 489.105(3)(n) and accordingly romanette (iii) above is satisfied. This interpretation is bolstered by the text of s. 489.113(3) which lists various Division II scopes of work that a CGC must subcontract to a properly licensed Division II subcontractor. Missing from the list is the s. 489.105(3)(n) underground utility and excavation contractor scope. (d) In sum, I believe there is a credible argument that an unlicensed sub working under a CGC may perform the asphalt, curb and drain scopes under the supervision of the CGC without violating ch. 489. Michael Gibbons Shareholder 215 N. Eola Dr. | Orlando, FL 32801 D: 407.418.6378 | P: 407.843.4600 | Ext: 1378 Email<mailto:Michael.Gibbons@lowndes-law.com> | Website<https://link.edgepilot.com/s/0297fd59/WGt_5kPjvU_bZjQWqTFAKA?u=http://lowndes-law.com/> | Bio<https://link.edgepilot.com/s/ea2ea34a/4Bb0A_1TT0Su-idLnpyNOg?u=http://lowndes-law.com/people-detail/client/Michael-Gibbons> | vCard<https://link.edgepilot.com/s/a3050f91/FYqNp8HI-0_lwyHYKIbLQQ?u=https://lowndeslaw.dpmlocal.com/admin/vcard/generate.php?id=64> [cid:image001.png@01D94CE0.27564210] LOCAL ROOTS. BROAD REACH. SM From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion Sent: Wednesday, March 1, 2023 10:58 PM To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org Subject: [CLC-Discussion] License Question CAUTION: THIS IS AN EXTERNAL EMAIL Evening all. I have a license question. If a sub, let’s say an unlicensed underground contractor doing curbs, drains, and asphalt, signs a subcontract with a licensed GC. Is that sub automatically “covered” by the GC’s license such that it does not need its own license to perform that work? If so, or if not, can someone point me to the statute, rule or regulation that requires that sub to have its own license? Thank you. Regards, Alex Barthet Board Certified in Construction Law TheLienZone Construction Law Blog<https://link.edgepilot.com/s/55ec3259/D6gDkKXN1kSSjbIrsK4zAw?u=https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/vOv6Cv29QzuW1G2KiQNkG_/> Biography<https://link.edgepilot.com/s/12c90302/5XGLqg5TuEeBpZ9KofE6eg?u=https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/vy30CwpR0ATL67A9cq5iRl/> The Barthet Firm 200 S. Biscayne Blvd., Suite 1650 Miami, Florida 33131 305-347-5295 (direct line) alex@barthet.com<mailto:alex@barthet.com> https://link.edgepilot.com/s/535c9a1f/Rw-IZ36afkC1d2_WHqWtyg?u=http://www.barthet.com/<https://link.edgepilot.com/s/b46817bc/2NcIw6uDPUCqO1Kmx3ygig?u=https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/YqgUCyPJwDcNDg0kuR-vEF/> This electronic communication may contain privileged, confidential, or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of the intended recipient, please delete this communication and notify the sender. Thank you. Notice of Confidentiality: This e-mail communication and the attachment(s) hereto, if any, are intended solely for the information and use of the addressee(s) identified above and may contain information which is legally privileged from disclosure and/or otherwise confidential. If a recipient of this e-mail communication is not an addressee (or an authorized representative of an addressee), such recipient is hereby advised that any review, disclosure, reproduction, re-transmission or other dissemination or use of this e-mail communication (or any information contained herein) is strictly prohibited. If you are not an addressee and have received this e-mail communication in error, please advise the sender of that circumstance either by reply e-mail or by telephone at (800) 356-6818, immediately delete this e-mail communication from any computer and destroy all physical copies of same. Replies Filtered: Any incoming reply to this e-mail communication or other e-mail communication to us will be electronically filtered for "spam" and/or "viruses." That filtering process may result in such reply or other e-mail communications to us being quarantined (i.e., potentially not received at our site at all) and/or delayed in reaching us. For that reason, we cannot guarantee that we will receive your reply or other e-mail communications to us and/or that we will receive the same in a timely manner. Accordingly, you should consider sending communications to us which are particularly important or time-sensitive by means other than e-mail. [v4.30]

RC

RPPTL CLC-Discussion

Thu, Mar 2, 2023 3:58 PM

I agree with Michael, but if the GC wants to be cautious and time permits, he/she can petition the CILB for a Declaratory Statement and obtain a response that is binding within the scope of his inquiry.

Diane S. Perera, Esq.
Board Certified in Construction Law
Law Office of Diane S. Perera, P.A.
12150 SW 128 Ct., Suite 114
Miami, FL 33186
Office: 305-252-1388
Website: www.dpconstructionlaw.com
Email: dperera@dpconstructionlaw.com
CONFIDENTIAL: This e-mail and any Document(s) accompanying this transmittal contains information from the Law Office of Diane S. Perera, P.A., that is confidential and/or legally privileged. The information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or taking of any action in reliance upon the contents of this transmittal information is strictly prohibited and the document(s) should be returned to this firm immediately. If you have received this transmittal in error, please notify this firm immediately at (305) 252-1388 or by return e-mail.
Any correspondence between a firm attorney and a prospective client is not to be construed as the engagement of any attorney at The Law Office of Diane S. Perera P.A. for legal representation unless the representation is evidenced in a writing signed by both parties. The discussion of matters between a firm attorney and a prospective client for legal representation is protected by the client/attorney privilege as directed by the Rules Regulating The Florida Bar; 4-1.6.

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Thursday, March 2, 2023 8:54 AM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] License Question

Here are some initial thoughts to kick off discussion on the always fun ch. 489 licensure questions:

It is not clear where the asphalt, curb and drain work is taking place. Assuming this scope is being performed as part of street or road construction, there would be no ch. 489 licensure issue due to the exemption from Part 1 of ch. 489 found at Fla. Stat. s. 489.103(1).
Assuming the work is taking place in a parking lot or location other than a road or street, it gets interesting:
Starting with the definitions found at Fla. Stat. s. 489.105, work on asphalt and curbs does not appear to expressly fall within any of the listed licensure descriptions applicable to Division II contractors under s. 489.105(3)(d)-(o). Assuming the reference to “drains” refers to stormwater drains, the work on drains appears to fall within the “storm sewer collection system” scope of work applicable to an underground utility and excavation contractor at Fla. Stat. s. 489.105(3)(n).
After working through the statutory definitions, the next relevant portion of ch. 489 appears to be Fla. Stat. s. 489.113. Under Fla. Stat. s. 489.113(2), an unlicensed subcontractor may work under the supervision of a licensed contractor under the following conditions: (i) the work is within the scope of the supervising contractor’s license, (ii) the supervising contractor is responsible for the work, and (iii) the unlicensed subcontractor being supervised is not performing work for which a contractor must be licensed as a Division II contractor under s. 489.105(3)(d)-(o).
Under Fla. Stat. s. 489.113(3)(d), a CGC may perform any of the services for which a license as an underground utility and excavation contractor is required. Accordingly, romanette (i) above is satisfied. Satisfying romanette (ii) above should not be a heavy lift assuming the CGC is on the site permit and is contracted to the Owner. The analysis of romanette (iii) above is tricky. On the one hand, stormwater collection system work such as storm drains appears to fall within the licensure scope of an underground utility contractor pursuant to 489.105(3)(n). On the other hand, stormwater collection system work may expressly be performed by a CGC and is not restricted to the Division II underground utility license. It comes down to whether work on drains and stormwater collection systems is work “that would require a license as a contractor under any of the categories listed in s. 489.105(3)(d)-(o)”. Since a CGC may lawfully perform such work, I would argue that drain work does not require a license under s. 489.105(3)(n) and accordingly romanette (iii) above is satisfied. This interpretation is bolstered by the text of s. 489.113(3) which lists various Division II scopes of work that a CGC must subcontract to a properly licensed Division II subcontractor. Missing from the list is the s. 489.105(3)(n) underground utility and excavation contractor scope.
In sum, I believe there is a credible argument that an unlicensed sub working under a CGC may perform the asphalt, curb and drain scopes under the supervision of the CGC without violating ch. 489.

Michael Gibbons
Shareholder
215 N. Eola Dr. | Orlando, FL 32801
D: 407.418.6378 | P: 407.843.4600 | Ext: 1378
Emailmailto:Michael.Gibbons@lowndes-law.com | Websitehttp://lowndes-law.com | Bio<lowndes-law.com/people-detail/client/Michael-Gibbons> | vCardhttps://lowndeslaw.dpmlocal.com/admin/vcard/generate.php?id=64

[cid:image001.png@01D94CF5.E6AD35F0]
LOCAL ROOTS. BROAD REACH. SM

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Wednesday, March 1, 2023 10:58 PM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: [CLC-Discussion] License Question

CAUTION: THIS IS AN EXTERNAL EMAIL

Evening all. I have a license question. If a sub, let’s say an unlicensed underground contractor doing curbs, drains, and asphalt, signs a subcontract with a licensed GC. Is that sub automatically “covered” by the GC’s license such that it does not need its own license to perform that work? If so, or if not, can someone point me to the statute, rule or regulation that requires that sub to have its own license? Thank you.

Regards,

Alex Barthet
Board Certified in Construction Law
TheLienZone Construction Law Bloghttps://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/vOv6Cv29QzuW1G2KiQNkG_/
Biographyhttps://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/vy30CwpR0ATL67A9cq5iRl/

The Barthet Firm
200 S. Biscayne Blvd., Suite 1650
Miami, Florida 33131
305-347-5295 (direct line)
alex@barthet.com mailto:alex@barthet.com
www.barthet.com https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/YqgUCyPJwDcNDg0kuR-vEF/

This electronic communication may contain privileged, confidential, or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of the intended recipient, please delete this communication and notify the sender. Thank you.

Notice of Confidentiality: This e-mail communication and the attachment(s) hereto, if any, are intended solely for the information and use of the addressee(s) identified above and may contain information which is legally privileged from disclosure and/or otherwise confidential. If a recipient of this e-mail communication is not an addressee (or an authorized representative of an addressee), such recipient is hereby advised that any review, disclosure, reproduction, re-transmission or other dissemination or use of this e-mail communication (or any information contained herein) is strictly prohibited. If you are not an addressee and have received this e-mail communication in error, please advise the sender of that circumstance either by reply e-mail or by telephone at (800) 356-6818, immediately delete this e-mail communication from any computer and destroy all physical copies of same.

Replies Filtered: Any incoming reply to this e-mail communication or other e-mail communication to us will be electronically filtered for "spam" and/or "viruses." That filtering process may result in such reply or other e-mail communications to us being quarantined (i.e., potentially not received at our site at all) and/or delayed in reaching us. For that reason, we cannot guarantee that we will receive your reply or other e-mail communications to us and/or that we will receive the same in a timely manner. Accordingly, you should consider sending communications to us which are particularly important or time-sensitive by means other than e-mail.

[v4.30]

I agree with Michael, but if the GC wants to be cautious and time permits, he/she can petition the CILB for a Declaratory Statement and obtain a response that is binding within the scope of his inquiry. Diane S. Perera, Esq. Board Certified in Construction Law Law Office of Diane S. Perera, P.A. 12150 SW 128 Ct., Suite 114 Miami, FL 33186 Office: 305-252-1388 Website: www.dpconstructionlaw.com Email: dperera@dpconstructionlaw.com CONFIDENTIAL: This e-mail and any Document(s) accompanying this transmittal contains information from the Law Office of Diane S. Perera, P.A., that is confidential and/or legally privileged. The information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or taking of any action in reliance upon the contents of this transmittal information is strictly prohibited and the document(s) should be returned to this firm immediately. If you have received this transmittal in error, please notify this firm immediately at (305) 252-1388 or by return e-mail. Any correspondence between a firm attorney and a prospective client is not to be construed as the engagement of any attorney at The Law Office of Diane S. Perera P.A. for legal representation unless the representation is evidenced in a writing signed by both parties. The discussion of matters between a firm attorney and a prospective client for legal representation is protected by the client/attorney privilege as directed by the Rules Regulating The Florida Bar; 4-1.6. From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion Sent: Thursday, March 2, 2023 8:54 AM To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] License Question Here are some initial thoughts to kick off discussion on the always fun ch. 489 licensure questions: 1. It is not clear where the asphalt, curb and drain work is taking place. Assuming this scope is being performed as part of street or road construction, there would be no ch. 489 licensure issue due to the exemption from Part 1 of ch. 489 found at Fla. Stat. s. 489.103(1). 1. Assuming the work is taking place in a parking lot or location other than a road or street, it gets interesting: 1. Starting with the definitions found at Fla. Stat. s. 489.105, work on asphalt and curbs does not appear to expressly fall within any of the listed licensure descriptions applicable to Division II contractors under s. 489.105(3)(d)-(o). Assuming the reference to “drains” refers to stormwater drains, the work on drains appears to fall within the “storm sewer collection system” scope of work applicable to an underground utility and excavation contractor at Fla. Stat. s. 489.105(3)(n). 1. After working through the statutory definitions, the next relevant portion of ch. 489 appears to be Fla. Stat. s. 489.113. Under Fla. Stat. s. 489.113(2), an unlicensed subcontractor may work under the supervision of a licensed contractor under the following conditions: (i) the work is within the scope of the supervising contractor’s license, (ii) the supervising contractor is responsible for the work, and (iii) the unlicensed subcontractor being supervised is not performing work for which a contractor must be licensed as a Division II contractor under s. 489.105(3)(d)-(o). 1. Under Fla. Stat. s. 489.113(3)(d), a CGC may perform any of the services for which a license as an underground utility and excavation contractor is required. Accordingly, romanette (i) above is satisfied. Satisfying romanette (ii) above should not be a heavy lift assuming the CGC is on the site permit and is contracted to the Owner. The analysis of romanette (iii) above is tricky. On the one hand, stormwater collection system work such as storm drains appears to fall within the licensure scope of an underground utility contractor pursuant to 489.105(3)(n). On the other hand, stormwater collection system work may expressly be performed by a CGC and is not restricted to the Division II underground utility license. It comes down to whether work on drains and stormwater collection systems is work “that would require a license as a contractor under any of the categories listed in s. 489.105(3)(d)-(o)”. Since a CGC may lawfully perform such work, I would argue that drain work does not require a license under s. 489.105(3)(n) and accordingly romanette (iii) above is satisfied. This interpretation is bolstered by the text of s. 489.113(3) which lists various Division II scopes of work that a CGC must subcontract to a properly licensed Division II subcontractor. Missing from the list is the s. 489.105(3)(n) underground utility and excavation contractor scope. 1. In sum, I believe there is a credible argument that an unlicensed sub working under a CGC may perform the asphalt, curb and drain scopes under the supervision of the CGC without violating ch. 489. Michael Gibbons Shareholder 215 N. Eola Dr. | Orlando, FL 32801 D: 407.418.6378 | P: 407.843.4600 | Ext: 1378 Email<mailto:Michael.Gibbons@lowndes-law.com> | Website<http://lowndes-law.com> | Bio<lowndes-law.com/people-detail/client/Michael-Gibbons> | vCard<https://lowndeslaw.dpmlocal.com/admin/vcard/generate.php?id=64> [cid:image001.png@01D94CF5.E6AD35F0] LOCAL ROOTS. BROAD REACH. SM From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org>> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion Sent: Wednesday, March 1, 2023 10:58 PM To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org> Subject: [CLC-Discussion] License Question CAUTION: THIS IS AN EXTERNAL EMAIL Evening all. I have a license question. If a sub, let’s say an unlicensed underground contractor doing curbs, drains, and asphalt, signs a subcontract with a licensed GC. Is that sub automatically “covered” by the GC’s license such that it does not need its own license to perform that work? If so, or if not, can someone point me to the statute, rule or regulation that requires that sub to have its own license? Thank you. Regards, Alex Barthet Board Certified in Construction Law TheLienZone Construction Law Blog<https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/vOv6Cv29QzuW1G2KiQNkG_/> Biography<https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/vy30CwpR0ATL67A9cq5iRl/> The Barthet Firm 200 S. Biscayne Blvd., Suite 1650 Miami, Florida 33131 305-347-5295 (direct line) alex@barthet.com<mailto:alex@barthet.com> www.barthet.com<https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/YqgUCyPJwDcNDg0kuR-vEF/> This electronic communication may contain privileged, confidential, or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of the intended recipient, please delete this communication and notify the sender. Thank you. Notice of Confidentiality: This e-mail communication and the attachment(s) hereto, if any, are intended solely for the information and use of the addressee(s) identified above and may contain information which is legally privileged from disclosure and/or otherwise confidential. If a recipient of this e-mail communication is not an addressee (or an authorized representative of an addressee), such recipient is hereby advised that any review, disclosure, reproduction, re-transmission or other dissemination or use of this e-mail communication (or any information contained herein) is strictly prohibited. If you are not an addressee and have received this e-mail communication in error, please advise the sender of that circumstance either by reply e-mail or by telephone at (800) 356-6818, immediately delete this e-mail communication from any computer and destroy all physical copies of same. Replies Filtered: Any incoming reply to this e-mail communication or other e-mail communication to us will be electronically filtered for "spam" and/or "viruses." That filtering process may result in such reply or other e-mail communications to us being quarantined (i.e., potentially not received at our site at all) and/or delayed in reaching us. For that reason, we cannot guarantee that we will receive your reply or other e-mail communications to us and/or that we will receive the same in a timely manner. Accordingly, you should consider sending communications to us which are particularly important or time-sensitive by means other than e-mail. [v4.30]

RC

RPPTL CLC-Discussion

Thu, Mar 2, 2023 6:17 PM

Are you all finding that the CILB is willing to issue such declaratory statements or do they usually decline? I thought it was difficult to get them issue such decisions.

Kind regards,
Hardy

Hardy L. Roberts
Board Certified in Construction Law
[cid:image002.png@01D94D09.6B6D2620]
712 S. Oregon Avenue
Tampa, Florida 33606
Direct: 813-345-5212 | Cell: 813-966-9511
hroberts@careyomalley.com mailto:hroberts@careyomalley.com

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Thursday, March 2, 2023 10:58 AM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Cc: 14f1fe0e681e47009f01447edae921ab@lawmail.cosmolex.com
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] License Question

I agree with Michael, but if the GC wants to be cautious and time permits, he/she can petition the CILB for a Declaratory Statement and obtain a response that is binding within the scope of his inquiry.

Diane S. Perera, Esq.
Board Certified in Construction Law
Law Office of Diane S. Perera, P.A.
12150 SW 128 Ct., Suite 114
Miami, FL 33186
Office: 305-252-1388
Website: www.dpconstructionlaw.com http://www.dpconstructionlaw.com
Email: dperera@dpconstructionlaw.com mailto:dperera@dpconstructionlaw.com

CONFIDENTIAL: This e-mail and any Document(s) accompanying this transmittal contains information from the Law Office of Diane S. Perera, P.A., that is confidential and/or legally privileged. The information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or taking of any action in reliance upon the contents of this transmittal information is strictly prohibited and the document(s) should be returned to this firm immediately. If you have received this transmittal in error, please notify this firm immediately at (305) 252-1388 or by return e-mail.

Any correspondence between a firm attorney and a prospective client is not to be construed as the engagement of any attorney at The Law Office of Diane S. Perera P.A. for legal representation unless the representation is evidenced in a writing signed by both parties. The discussion of matters between a firm attorney and a prospective client for legal representation is protected by the client/attorney privilege as directed by the Rules Regulating The Florida Bar; 4-1.6.

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Thursday, March 2, 2023 8:54 AM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] License Question

Here are some initial thoughts to kick off discussion on the always fun ch. 489 licensure questions:

It is not clear where the asphalt, curb and drain work is taking place. Assuming this scope is being performed as part of street or road construction, there would be no ch. 489 licensure issue due to the exemption from Part 1 of ch. 489 found at Fla. Stat. s. 489.103(1).
Assuming the work is taking place in a parking lot or location other than a road or street, it gets interesting:
Starting with the definitions found at Fla. Stat. s. 489.105, work on asphalt and curbs does not appear to expressly fall within any of the listed licensure descriptions applicable to Division II contractors under s. 489.105(3)(d)-(o). Assuming the reference to “drains” refers to stormwater drains, the work on drains appears to fall within the “storm sewer collection system” scope of work applicable to an underground utility and excavation contractor at Fla. Stat. s. 489.105(3)(n).
After working through the statutory definitions, the next relevant portion of ch. 489 appears to be Fla. Stat. s. 489.113. Under Fla. Stat. s. 489.113(2), an unlicensed subcontractor may work under the supervision of a licensed contractor under the following conditions: (i) the work is within the scope of the supervising contractor’s license, (ii) the supervising contractor is responsible for the work, and (iii) the unlicensed subcontractor being supervised is not performing work for which a contractor must be licensed as a Division II contractor under s. 489.105(3)(d)-(o).
Under Fla. Stat. s. 489.113(3)(d), a CGC may perform any of the services for which a license as an underground utility and excavation contractor is required. Accordingly, romanette (i) above is satisfied. Satisfying romanette (ii) above should not be a heavy lift assuming the CGC is on the site permit and is contracted to the Owner. The analysis of romanette (iii) above is tricky. On the one hand, stormwater collection system work such as storm drains appears to fall within the licensure scope of an underground utility contractor pursuant to 489.105(3)(n). On the other hand, stormwater collection system work may expressly be performed by a CGC and is not restricted to the Division II underground utility license. It comes down to whether work on drains and stormwater collection systems is work “that would require a license as a contractor under any of the categories listed in s. 489.105(3)(d)-(o)”. Since a CGC may lawfully perform such work, I would argue that drain work does not require a license under s. 489.105(3)(n) and accordingly romanette (iii) above is satisfied. This interpretation is bolstered by the text of s. 489.113(3) which lists various Division II scopes of work that a CGC must subcontract to a properly licensed Division II subcontractor. Missing from the list is the s. 489.105(3)(n) underground utility and excavation contractor scope.
In sum, I believe there is a credible argument that an unlicensed sub working under a CGC may perform the asphalt, curb and drain scopes under the supervision of the CGC without violating ch. 489.

Michael Gibbons
Shareholder
215 N. Eola Dr. | Orlando, FL 32801
D: 407.418.6378 | P: 407.843.4600 | Ext: 1378
Emailmailto:Michael.Gibbons@lowndes-law.com | Websitehttp://lowndes-law.com | Bio<lowndes-law.com/people-detail/client/Michael-Gibbons> | vCardhttps://lowndeslaw.dpmlocal.com/admin/vcard/generate.php?id=64

[cid:image003.png@01D94D09.6B6D2620]

LOCAL ROOTS. BROAD REACH. SM

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Wednesday, March 1, 2023 10:58 PM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: [CLC-Discussion] License Question

CAUTION: THIS IS AN EXTERNAL EMAIL

Evening all. I have a license question. If a sub, let’s say an unlicensed underground contractor doing curbs, drains, and asphalt, signs a subcontract with a licensed GC. Is that sub automatically “covered” by the GC’s license such that it does not need its own license to perform that work? If so, or if not, can someone point me to the statute, rule or regulation that requires that sub to have its own license? Thank you.

Regards,

Alex Barthet
Board Certified in Construction Law
TheLienZone Construction Law Bloghttps://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/vOv6Cv29QzuW1G2KiQNkG_/
Biographyhttps://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/vy30CwpR0ATL67A9cq5iRl/

The Barthet Firm
200 S. Biscayne Blvd., Suite 1650
Miami, Florida 33131
305-347-5295 (direct line)
alex@barthet.com mailto:alex@barthet.com
www.barthet.com https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/YqgUCyPJwDcNDg0kuR-vEF/

This electronic communication may contain privileged, confidential, or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of the intended recipient, please delete this communication and notify the sender. Thank you.

Notice of Confidentiality: This e-mail communication and the attachment(s) hereto, if any, are intended solely for the information and use of the addressee(s) identified above and may contain information which is legally privileged from disclosure and/or otherwise confidential. If a recipient of this e-mail communication is not an addressee (or an authorized representative of an addressee), such recipient is hereby advised that any review, disclosure, reproduction, re-transmission or other dissemination or use of this e-mail communication (or any information contained herein) is strictly prohibited. If you are not an addressee and have received this e-mail communication in error, please advise the sender of that circumstance either by reply e-mail or by telephone at (800) 356-6818, immediately delete this e-mail communication from any computer and destroy all physical copies of same.

Replies Filtered: Any incoming reply to this e-mail communication or other e-mail communication to us will be electronically filtered for "spam" and/or "viruses." That filtering process may result in such reply or other e-mail communications to us being quarantined (i.e., potentially not received at our site at all) and/or delayed in reaching us. For that reason, we cannot guarantee that we will receive your reply or other e-mail communications to us and/or that we will receive the same in a timely manner. Accordingly, you should consider sending communications to us which are particularly important or time-sensitive by means other than e-mail.

[v4.30]

Are you all finding that the CILB is willing to issue such declaratory statements or do they usually decline? I thought it was difficult to get them issue such decisions. Kind regards, Hardy Hardy L. Roberts Board Certified in Construction Law [cid:image002.png@01D94D09.6B6D2620] 712 S. Oregon Avenue Tampa, Florida 33606 Direct: 813-345-5212 | Cell: 813-966-9511 hroberts@careyomalley.com<mailto:hroberts@careyomalley.com> From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion Sent: Thursday, March 2, 2023 10:58 AM To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org Cc: 14f1fe0e681e47009f01447edae921ab@lawmail.cosmolex.com Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] License Question I agree with Michael, but if the GC wants to be cautious and time permits, he/she can petition the CILB for a Declaratory Statement and obtain a response that is binding within the scope of his inquiry. Diane S. Perera, Esq. Board Certified in Construction Law Law Office of Diane S. Perera, P.A. 12150 SW 128 Ct., Suite 114 Miami, FL 33186 Office: 305-252-1388 Website: www.dpconstructionlaw.com<http://www.dpconstructionlaw.com> Email: dperera@dpconstructionlaw.com<mailto:dperera@dpconstructionlaw.com> CONFIDENTIAL: This e-mail and any Document(s) accompanying this transmittal contains information from the Law Office of Diane S. Perera, P.A., that is confidential and/or legally privileged. The information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or taking of any action in reliance upon the contents of this transmittal information is strictly prohibited and the document(s) should be returned to this firm immediately. If you have received this transmittal in error, please notify this firm immediately at (305) 252-1388 or by return e-mail. Any correspondence between a firm attorney and a prospective client is not to be construed as the engagement of any attorney at The Law Office of Diane S. Perera P.A. for legal representation unless the representation is evidenced in a writing signed by both parties. The discussion of matters between a firm attorney and a prospective client for legal representation is protected by the client/attorney privilege as directed by the Rules Regulating The Florida Bar; 4-1.6. From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org>> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion Sent: Thursday, March 2, 2023 8:54 AM To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org> Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] License Question Here are some initial thoughts to kick off discussion on the always fun ch. 489 licensure questions: 1. It is not clear where the asphalt, curb and drain work is taking place. Assuming this scope is being performed as part of street or road construction, there would be no ch. 489 licensure issue due to the exemption from Part 1 of ch. 489 found at Fla. Stat. s. 489.103(1). 1. Assuming the work is taking place in a parking lot or location other than a road or street, it gets interesting: 1. Starting with the definitions found at Fla. Stat. s. 489.105, work on asphalt and curbs does not appear to expressly fall within any of the listed licensure descriptions applicable to Division II contractors under s. 489.105(3)(d)-(o). Assuming the reference to “drains” refers to stormwater drains, the work on drains appears to fall within the “storm sewer collection system” scope of work applicable to an underground utility and excavation contractor at Fla. Stat. s. 489.105(3)(n). 1. After working through the statutory definitions, the next relevant portion of ch. 489 appears to be Fla. Stat. s. 489.113. Under Fla. Stat. s. 489.113(2), an unlicensed subcontractor may work under the supervision of a licensed contractor under the following conditions: (i) the work is within the scope of the supervising contractor’s license, (ii) the supervising contractor is responsible for the work, and (iii) the unlicensed subcontractor being supervised is not performing work for which a contractor must be licensed as a Division II contractor under s. 489.105(3)(d)-(o). 1. Under Fla. Stat. s. 489.113(3)(d), a CGC may perform any of the services for which a license as an underground utility and excavation contractor is required. Accordingly, romanette (i) above is satisfied. Satisfying romanette (ii) above should not be a heavy lift assuming the CGC is on the site permit and is contracted to the Owner. The analysis of romanette (iii) above is tricky. On the one hand, stormwater collection system work such as storm drains appears to fall within the licensure scope of an underground utility contractor pursuant to 489.105(3)(n). On the other hand, stormwater collection system work may expressly be performed by a CGC and is not restricted to the Division II underground utility license. It comes down to whether work on drains and stormwater collection systems is work “that would require a license as a contractor under any of the categories listed in s. 489.105(3)(d)-(o)”. Since a CGC may lawfully perform such work, I would argue that drain work does not require a license under s. 489.105(3)(n) and accordingly romanette (iii) above is satisfied. This interpretation is bolstered by the text of s. 489.113(3) which lists various Division II scopes of work that a CGC must subcontract to a properly licensed Division II subcontractor. Missing from the list is the s. 489.105(3)(n) underground utility and excavation contractor scope. 1. In sum, I believe there is a credible argument that an unlicensed sub working under a CGC may perform the asphalt, curb and drain scopes under the supervision of the CGC without violating ch. 489. Michael Gibbons Shareholder 215 N. Eola Dr. | Orlando, FL 32801 D: 407.418.6378 | P: 407.843.4600 | Ext: 1378 Email<mailto:Michael.Gibbons@lowndes-law.com> | Website<http://lowndes-law.com> | Bio<lowndes-law.com/people-detail/client/Michael-Gibbons> | vCard<https://lowndeslaw.dpmlocal.com/admin/vcard/generate.php?id=64> [cid:image003.png@01D94D09.6B6D2620] LOCAL ROOTS. BROAD REACH. SM From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org>> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion Sent: Wednesday, March 1, 2023 10:58 PM To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org> Subject: [CLC-Discussion] License Question CAUTION: THIS IS AN EXTERNAL EMAIL Evening all. I have a license question. If a sub, let’s say an unlicensed underground contractor doing curbs, drains, and asphalt, signs a subcontract with a licensed GC. Is that sub automatically “covered” by the GC’s license such that it does not need its own license to perform that work? If so, or if not, can someone point me to the statute, rule or regulation that requires that sub to have its own license? Thank you. Regards, Alex Barthet Board Certified in Construction Law TheLienZone Construction Law Blog<https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/vOv6Cv29QzuW1G2KiQNkG_/> Biography<https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/vy30CwpR0ATL67A9cq5iRl/> The Barthet Firm 200 S. Biscayne Blvd., Suite 1650 Miami, Florida 33131 305-347-5295 (direct line) alex@barthet.com<mailto:alex@barthet.com> www.barthet.com<https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/YqgUCyPJwDcNDg0kuR-vEF/> This electronic communication may contain privileged, confidential, or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of the intended recipient, please delete this communication and notify the sender. Thank you. Notice of Confidentiality: This e-mail communication and the attachment(s) hereto, if any, are intended solely for the information and use of the addressee(s) identified above and may contain information which is legally privileged from disclosure and/or otherwise confidential. If a recipient of this e-mail communication is not an addressee (or an authorized representative of an addressee), such recipient is hereby advised that any review, disclosure, reproduction, re-transmission or other dissemination or use of this e-mail communication (or any information contained herein) is strictly prohibited. If you are not an addressee and have received this e-mail communication in error, please advise the sender of that circumstance either by reply e-mail or by telephone at (800) 356-6818, immediately delete this e-mail communication from any computer and destroy all physical copies of same. Replies Filtered: Any incoming reply to this e-mail communication or other e-mail communication to us will be electronically filtered for "spam" and/or "viruses." That filtering process may result in such reply or other e-mail communications to us being quarantined (i.e., potentially not received at our site at all) and/or delayed in reaching us. For that reason, we cannot guarantee that we will receive your reply or other e-mail communications to us and/or that we will receive the same in a timely manner. Accordingly, you should consider sending communications to us which are particularly important or time-sensitive by means other than e-mail. [v4.30]

RC

RPPTL CLC-Discussion

Thu, Mar 2, 2023 6:28 PM

I may be mistaken but I thought I read recently that going forward the CILB had decided it was no longer going to issue the Declaratory Statements.

Michael Gibbons
Shareholder
215 N. Eola Dr. | Orlando, FL 32801
D: 407.418.6378 | P: 407.843.4600 | Ext: 1378
Emailmailto:Michael.Gibbons@lowndes-law.com | Websitehttp://lowndes-law.com | Bio<lowndes-law.com/people-detail/client/Michael-Gibbons> | vCardhttps://lowndeslaw.dpmlocal.com/admin/vcard/generate.php?id=64

[cid:image001.png@01D94D0A.CB9DD2F0]
LOCAL ROOTS. BROAD REACH. SM

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Thursday, March 2, 2023 1:18 PM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] License Question

CAUTION: THIS IS AN EXTERNAL EMAIL

Are you all finding that the CILB is willing to issue such declaratory statements or do they usually decline? I thought it was difficult to get them issue such decisions.

Kind regards,
Hardy

Hardy L. Roberts
Board Certified in Construction Law
[cid:image005.png@01D94D0A.CB6F6FF0]
712 S. Oregon Avenue
Tampa, Florida 33606
Direct: 813-345-5212 | Cell: 813-966-9511
hroberts@careyomalley.com mailto:hroberts@careyomalley.com

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Thursday, March 2, 2023 10:58 AM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Cc: 14f1fe0e681e47009f01447edae921ab@lawmail.cosmolex.com mailto:14f1fe0e681e47009f01447edae921ab@lawmail.cosmolex.com
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] License Question

I agree with Michael, but if the GC wants to be cautious and time permits, he/she can petition the CILB for a Declaratory Statement and obtain a response that is binding within the scope of his inquiry.

Diane S. Perera, Esq.
Board Certified in Construction Law
Law Office of Diane S. Perera, P.A.
12150 SW 128 Ct., Suite 114
Miami, FL 33186
Office: 305-252-1388
Website: www.dpconstructionlaw.com http://www.dpconstructionlaw.com
Email: dperera@dpconstructionlaw.com mailto:dperera@dpconstructionlaw.com

CONFIDENTIAL: This e-mail and any Document(s) accompanying this transmittal contains information from the Law Office of Diane S. Perera, P.A., that is confidential and/or legally privileged. The information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or taking of any action in reliance upon the contents of this transmittal information is strictly prohibited and the document(s) should be returned to this firm immediately. If you have received this transmittal in error, please notify this firm immediately at (305) 252-1388 or by return e-mail.

Any correspondence between a firm attorney and a prospective client is not to be construed as the engagement of any attorney at The Law Office of Diane S. Perera P.A. for legal representation unless the representation is evidenced in a writing signed by both parties. The discussion of matters between a firm attorney and a prospective client for legal representation is protected by the client/attorney privilege as directed by the Rules Regulating The Florida Bar; 4-1.6.

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Thursday, March 2, 2023 8:54 AM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] License Question

Here are some initial thoughts to kick off discussion on the always fun ch. 489 licensure questions:

It is not clear where the asphalt, curb and drain work is taking place. Assuming this scope is being performed as part of street or road construction, there would be no ch. 489 licensure issue due to the exemption from Part 1 of ch. 489 found at Fla. Stat. s. 489.103(1).
Assuming the work is taking place in a parking lot or location other than a road or street, it gets interesting:
Starting with the definitions found at Fla. Stat. s. 489.105, work on asphalt and curbs does not appear to expressly fall within any of the listed licensure descriptions applicable to Division II contractors under s. 489.105(3)(d)-(o). Assuming the reference to “drains” refers to stormwater drains, the work on drains appears to fall within the “storm sewer collection system” scope of work applicable to an underground utility and excavation contractor at Fla. Stat. s. 489.105(3)(n).
After working through the statutory definitions, the next relevant portion of ch. 489 appears to be Fla. Stat. s. 489.113. Under Fla. Stat. s. 489.113(2), an unlicensed subcontractor may work under the supervision of a licensed contractor under the following conditions: (i) the work is within the scope of the supervising contractor’s license, (ii) the supervising contractor is responsible for the work, and (iii) the unlicensed subcontractor being supervised is not performing work for which a contractor must be licensed as a Division II contractor under s. 489.105(3)(d)-(o).
Under Fla. Stat. s. 489.113(3)(d), a CGC may perform any of the services for which a license as an underground utility and excavation contractor is required. Accordingly, romanette (i) above is satisfied. Satisfying romanette (ii) above should not be a heavy lift assuming the CGC is on the site permit and is contracted to the Owner. The analysis of romanette (iii) above is tricky. On the one hand, stormwater collection system work such as storm drains appears to fall within the licensure scope of an underground utility contractor pursuant to 489.105(3)(n). On the other hand, stormwater collection system work may expressly be performed by a CGC and is not restricted to the Division II underground utility license. It comes down to whether work on drains and stormwater collection systems is work “that would require a license as a contractor under any of the categories listed in s. 489.105(3)(d)-(o)”. Since a CGC may lawfully perform such work, I would argue that drain work does not require a license under s. 489.105(3)(n) and accordingly romanette (iii) above is satisfied. This interpretation is bolstered by the text of s. 489.113(3) which lists various Division II scopes of work that a CGC must subcontract to a properly licensed Division II subcontractor. Missing from the list is the s. 489.105(3)(n) underground utility and excavation contractor scope.
In sum, I believe there is a credible argument that an unlicensed sub working under a CGC may perform the asphalt, curb and drain scopes under the supervision of the CGC without violating ch. 489.

Michael Gibbons
Shareholder
215 N. Eola Dr. | Orlando, FL 32801
D: 407.418.6378 | P: 407.843.4600 | Ext: 1378
Emailmailto:Michael.Gibbons@lowndes-law.com | Websitehttp://lowndes-law.com | Biohttp://lowndes-law.com/people-detail/client/Michael-Gibbons | vCardhttps://lowndeslaw.dpmlocal.com/admin/vcard/generate.php?id=64

[cid:image006.png@01D94D0A.CB6F6FF0]
LOCAL ROOTS. BROAD REACH. SM

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Wednesday, March 1, 2023 10:58 PM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: [CLC-Discussion] License Question

CAUTION: THIS IS AN EXTERNAL EMAIL

Evening all. I have a license question. If a sub, let’s say an unlicensed underground contractor doing curbs, drains, and asphalt, signs a subcontract with a licensed GC. Is that sub automatically “covered” by the GC’s license such that it does not need its own license to perform that work? If so, or if not, can someone point me to the statute, rule or regulation that requires that sub to have its own license? Thank you.

Regards,

Alex Barthet
Board Certified in Construction Law
TheLienZone Construction Law Bloghttps://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/JhCZCpYXZqHzk7k5s2LAKq/
Biographyhttps://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/lmqbCqxMQrTOBVB9hqXRv6/

The Barthet Firm
200 S. Biscayne Blvd., Suite 1650
Miami, Florida 33131
305-347-5295 (direct line)
alex@barthet.com mailto:alex@barthet.com
www.barthet.com https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/zbtuCv29QzuW1R1vcwMJGd/

This electronic communication may contain privileged, confidential, or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of the intended recipient, please delete this communication and notify the sender. Thank you.

Notice of Confidentiality: This e-mail communication and the attachment(s) hereto, if any, are intended solely for the information and use of the addressee(s) identified above and may contain information which is legally privileged from disclosure and/or otherwise confidential. If a recipient of this e-mail communication is not an addressee (or an authorized representative of an addressee), such recipient is hereby advised that any review, disclosure, reproduction, re-transmission or other dissemination or use of this e-mail communication (or any information contained herein) is strictly prohibited. If you are not an addressee and have received this e-mail communication in error, please advise the sender of that circumstance either by reply e-mail or by telephone at (800) 356-6818, immediately delete this e-mail communication from any computer and destroy all physical copies of same.

Replies Filtered: Any incoming reply to this e-mail communication or other e-mail communication to us will be electronically filtered for "spam" and/or "viruses." That filtering process may result in such reply or other e-mail communications to us being quarantined (i.e., potentially not received at our site at all) and/or delayed in reaching us. For that reason, we cannot guarantee that we will receive your reply or other e-mail communications to us and/or that we will receive the same in a timely manner. Accordingly, you should consider sending communications to us which are particularly important or time-sensitive by means other than e-mail.

[v4.30]

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I may be mistaken but I thought I read recently that going forward the CILB had decided it was no longer going to issue the Declaratory Statements. Michael Gibbons Shareholder 215 N. Eola Dr. | Orlando, FL 32801 D: 407.418.6378 | P: 407.843.4600 | Ext: 1378 Email<mailto:Michael.Gibbons@lowndes-law.com> | Website<http://lowndes-law.com> | Bio<lowndes-law.com/people-detail/client/Michael-Gibbons> | vCard<https://lowndeslaw.dpmlocal.com/admin/vcard/generate.php?id=64> [cid:image001.png@01D94D0A.CB9DD2F0] LOCAL ROOTS. BROAD REACH. SM From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion Sent: Thursday, March 2, 2023 1:18 PM To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] License Question CAUTION: THIS IS AN EXTERNAL EMAIL Are you all finding that the CILB is willing to issue such declaratory statements or do they usually decline? I thought it was difficult to get them issue such decisions. Kind regards, Hardy Hardy L. Roberts Board Certified in Construction Law [cid:image005.png@01D94D0A.CB6F6FF0] 712 S. Oregon Avenue Tampa, Florida 33606 Direct: 813-345-5212 | Cell: 813-966-9511 hroberts@careyomalley.com<mailto:hroberts@careyomalley.com> From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org>> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion Sent: Thursday, March 2, 2023 10:58 AM To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org> Cc: 14f1fe0e681e47009f01447edae921ab@lawmail.cosmolex.com<mailto:14f1fe0e681e47009f01447edae921ab@lawmail.cosmolex.com> Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] License Question I agree with Michael, but if the GC wants to be cautious and time permits, he/she can petition the CILB for a Declaratory Statement and obtain a response that is binding within the scope of his inquiry. Diane S. Perera, Esq. Board Certified in Construction Law Law Office of Diane S. Perera, P.A. 12150 SW 128 Ct., Suite 114 Miami, FL 33186 Office: 305-252-1388 Website: www.dpconstructionlaw.com<http://www.dpconstructionlaw.com> Email: dperera@dpconstructionlaw.com<mailto:dperera@dpconstructionlaw.com> CONFIDENTIAL: This e-mail and any Document(s) accompanying this transmittal contains information from the Law Office of Diane S. Perera, P.A., that is confidential and/or legally privileged. The information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or taking of any action in reliance upon the contents of this transmittal information is strictly prohibited and the document(s) should be returned to this firm immediately. If you have received this transmittal in error, please notify this firm immediately at (305) 252-1388 or by return e-mail. Any correspondence between a firm attorney and a prospective client is not to be construed as the engagement of any attorney at The Law Office of Diane S. Perera P.A. for legal representation unless the representation is evidenced in a writing signed by both parties. The discussion of matters between a firm attorney and a prospective client for legal representation is protected by the client/attorney privilege as directed by the Rules Regulating The Florida Bar; 4-1.6. From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org>> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion Sent: Thursday, March 2, 2023 8:54 AM To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org> Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] License Question Here are some initial thoughts to kick off discussion on the always fun ch. 489 licensure questions: 1. It is not clear where the asphalt, curb and drain work is taking place. Assuming this scope is being performed as part of street or road construction, there would be no ch. 489 licensure issue due to the exemption from Part 1 of ch. 489 found at Fla. Stat. s. 489.103(1). 1. Assuming the work is taking place in a parking lot or location other than a road or street, it gets interesting: 1. Starting with the definitions found at Fla. Stat. s. 489.105, work on asphalt and curbs does not appear to expressly fall within any of the listed licensure descriptions applicable to Division II contractors under s. 489.105(3)(d)-(o). Assuming the reference to “drains” refers to stormwater drains, the work on drains appears to fall within the “storm sewer collection system” scope of work applicable to an underground utility and excavation contractor at Fla. Stat. s. 489.105(3)(n). 1. After working through the statutory definitions, the next relevant portion of ch. 489 appears to be Fla. Stat. s. 489.113. Under Fla. Stat. s. 489.113(2), an unlicensed subcontractor may work under the supervision of a licensed contractor under the following conditions: (i) the work is within the scope of the supervising contractor’s license, (ii) the supervising contractor is responsible for the work, and (iii) the unlicensed subcontractor being supervised is not performing work for which a contractor must be licensed as a Division II contractor under s. 489.105(3)(d)-(o). 1. Under Fla. Stat. s. 489.113(3)(d), a CGC may perform any of the services for which a license as an underground utility and excavation contractor is required. Accordingly, romanette (i) above is satisfied. Satisfying romanette (ii) above should not be a heavy lift assuming the CGC is on the site permit and is contracted to the Owner. The analysis of romanette (iii) above is tricky. On the one hand, stormwater collection system work such as storm drains appears to fall within the licensure scope of an underground utility contractor pursuant to 489.105(3)(n). On the other hand, stormwater collection system work may expressly be performed by a CGC and is not restricted to the Division II underground utility license. It comes down to whether work on drains and stormwater collection systems is work “that would require a license as a contractor under any of the categories listed in s. 489.105(3)(d)-(o)”. Since a CGC may lawfully perform such work, I would argue that drain work does not require a license under s. 489.105(3)(n) and accordingly romanette (iii) above is satisfied. This interpretation is bolstered by the text of s. 489.113(3) which lists various Division II scopes of work that a CGC must subcontract to a properly licensed Division II subcontractor. Missing from the list is the s. 489.105(3)(n) underground utility and excavation contractor scope. 1. In sum, I believe there is a credible argument that an unlicensed sub working under a CGC may perform the asphalt, curb and drain scopes under the supervision of the CGC without violating ch. 489. Michael Gibbons Shareholder 215 N. Eola Dr. | Orlando, FL 32801 D: 407.418.6378 | P: 407.843.4600 | Ext: 1378 Email<mailto:Michael.Gibbons@lowndes-law.com> | Website<http://lowndes-law.com> | Bio<http://lowndes-law.com/people-detail/client/Michael-Gibbons> | vCard<https://lowndeslaw.dpmlocal.com/admin/vcard/generate.php?id=64> [cid:image006.png@01D94D0A.CB6F6FF0] LOCAL ROOTS. BROAD REACH. SM From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org>> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion Sent: Wednesday, March 1, 2023 10:58 PM To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org> Subject: [CLC-Discussion] License Question CAUTION: THIS IS AN EXTERNAL EMAIL Evening all. I have a license question. If a sub, let’s say an unlicensed underground contractor doing curbs, drains, and asphalt, signs a subcontract with a licensed GC. Is that sub automatically “covered” by the GC’s license such that it does not need its own license to perform that work? If so, or if not, can someone point me to the statute, rule or regulation that requires that sub to have its own license? Thank you. Regards, Alex Barthet Board Certified in Construction Law TheLienZone Construction Law Blog<https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/JhCZCpYXZqHzk7k5s2LAKq/> Biography<https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/lmqbCqxMQrTOBVB9hqXRv6/> The Barthet Firm 200 S. Biscayne Blvd., Suite 1650 Miami, Florida 33131 305-347-5295 (direct line) alex@barthet.com<mailto:alex@barthet.com> www.barthet.com<https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/zbtuCv29QzuW1R1vcwMJGd/> This electronic communication may contain privileged, confidential, or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of the intended recipient, please delete this communication and notify the sender. Thank you. Notice of Confidentiality: This e-mail communication and the attachment(s) hereto, if any, are intended solely for the information and use of the addressee(s) identified above and may contain information which is legally privileged from disclosure and/or otherwise confidential. If a recipient of this e-mail communication is not an addressee (or an authorized representative of an addressee), such recipient is hereby advised that any review, disclosure, reproduction, re-transmission or other dissemination or use of this e-mail communication (or any information contained herein) is strictly prohibited. If you are not an addressee and have received this e-mail communication in error, please advise the sender of that circumstance either by reply e-mail or by telephone at (800) 356-6818, immediately delete this e-mail communication from any computer and destroy all physical copies of same. Replies Filtered: Any incoming reply to this e-mail communication or other e-mail communication to us will be electronically filtered for "spam" and/or "viruses." That filtering process may result in such reply or other e-mail communications to us being quarantined (i.e., potentially not received at our site at all) and/or delayed in reaching us. For that reason, we cannot guarantee that we will receive your reply or other e-mail communications to us and/or that we will receive the same in a timely manner. Accordingly, you should consider sending communications to us which are particularly important or time-sensitive by means other than e-mail. [v4.30] This email message has been delivered safely and archived online by Mimecast. For more information please visit http://www.mimecast.com

RC

RPPTL CLC-Discussion

Thu, Mar 2, 2023 6:37 PM

I think the majority of petitions are denied because they are defective. I think if the petition is on behalf of the license holder who has standing, and drafted to ask how these statutes apply to the licensee’s conduct in subcontracting the work to an unlicensed contractor in this specific instance, the CILB would be more likely to issue a Statement.

Diane S. Perera, Esq.
Board Certified in Construction Law
Law Office of Diane S. Perera, P.A.
12150 SW 128 Ct., Suite 114
Miami, FL 33186
Office: 305-252-1388
Website: www.dpconstructionlaw.com
Email: dperera@dpconstructionlaw.com
CONFIDENTIAL: This e-mail and any Document(s) accompanying this transmittal contains information from the Law Office of Diane S. Perera, P.A., that is confidential and/or legally privileged. The information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or taking of any action in reliance upon the contents of this transmittal information is strictly prohibited and the document(s) should be returned to this firm immediately. If you have received this transmittal in error, please notify this firm immediately at (305) 252-1388 or by return e-mail.
Any correspondence between a firm attorney and a prospective client is not to be construed as the engagement of any attorney at The Law Office of Diane S. Perera P.A. for legal representation unless the representation is evidenced in a writing signed by both parties. The discussion of matters between a firm attorney and a prospective client for legal representation is protected by the client/attorney privilege as directed by the Rules Regulating The Florida Bar; 4-1.6.

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Thursday, March 2, 2023 1:18 PM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] License Question

Are you all finding that the CILB is willing to issue such declaratory statements or do they usually decline? I thought it was difficult to get them issue such decisions.

Kind regards,
Hardy

Hardy L. Roberts
Board Certified in Construction Law
[cid:image001.png@01D94D0B.04AD3720]
712 S. Oregon Avenue
Tampa, Florida 33606
Direct: 813-345-5212 | Cell: 813-966-9511
hroberts@careyomalley.com mailto:hroberts@careyomalley.com

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Thursday, March 2, 2023 10:58 AM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Cc: 14f1fe0e681e47009f01447edae921ab@lawmail.cosmolex.com mailto:14f1fe0e681e47009f01447edae921ab@lawmail.cosmolex.com
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] License Question

I agree with Michael, but if the GC wants to be cautious and time permits, he/she can petition the CILB for a Declaratory Statement and obtain a response that is binding within the scope of his inquiry.

Diane S. Perera, Esq.
Board Certified in Construction Law
Law Office of Diane S. Perera, P.A.
12150 SW 128 Ct., Suite 114
Miami, FL 33186
Office: 305-252-1388
Website: www.dpconstructionlaw.com http://www.dpconstructionlaw.com
Email: dperera@dpconstructionlaw.com mailto:dperera@dpconstructionlaw.com

CONFIDENTIAL: This e-mail and any Document(s) accompanying this transmittal contains information from the Law Office of Diane S. Perera, P.A., that is confidential and/or legally privileged. The information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or taking of any action in reliance upon the contents of this transmittal information is strictly prohibited and the document(s) should be returned to this firm immediately. If you have received this transmittal in error, please notify this firm immediately at (305) 252-1388 or by return e-mail.

Any correspondence between a firm attorney and a prospective client is not to be construed as the engagement of any attorney at The Law Office of Diane S. Perera P.A. for legal representation unless the representation is evidenced in a writing signed by both parties. The discussion of matters between a firm attorney and a prospective client for legal representation is protected by the client/attorney privilege as directed by the Rules Regulating The Florida Bar; 4-1.6.

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Thursday, March 2, 2023 8:54 AM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] License Question

Here are some initial thoughts to kick off discussion on the always fun ch. 489 licensure questions:

It is not clear where the asphalt, curb and drain work is taking place. Assuming this scope is being performed as part of street or road construction, there would be no ch. 489 licensure issue due to the exemption from Part 1 of ch. 489 found at Fla. Stat. s. 489.103(1).
Assuming the work is taking place in a parking lot or location other than a road or street, it gets interesting:
Starting with the definitions found at Fla. Stat. s. 489.105, work on asphalt and curbs does not appear to expressly fall within any of the listed licensure descriptions applicable to Division II contractors under s. 489.105(3)(d)-(o). Assuming the reference to “drains” refers to stormwater drains, the work on drains appears to fall within the “storm sewer collection system” scope of work applicable to an underground utility and excavation contractor at Fla. Stat. s. 489.105(3)(n).
After working through the statutory definitions, the next relevant portion of ch. 489 appears to be Fla. Stat. s. 489.113. Under Fla. Stat. s. 489.113(2), an unlicensed subcontractor may work under the supervision of a licensed contractor under the following conditions: (i) the work is within the scope of the supervising contractor’s license, (ii) the supervising contractor is responsible for the work, and (iii) the unlicensed subcontractor being supervised is not performing work for which a contractor must be licensed as a Division II contractor under s. 489.105(3)(d)-(o).
Under Fla. Stat. s. 489.113(3)(d), a CGC may perform any of the services for which a license as an underground utility and excavation contractor is required. Accordingly, romanette (i) above is satisfied. Satisfying romanette (ii) above should not be a heavy lift assuming the CGC is on the site permit and is contracted to the Owner. The analysis of romanette (iii) above is tricky. On the one hand, stormwater collection system work such as storm drains appears to fall within the licensure scope of an underground utility contractor pursuant to 489.105(3)(n). On the other hand, stormwater collection system work may expressly be performed by a CGC and is not restricted to the Division II underground utility license. It comes down to whether work on drains and stormwater collection systems is work “that would require a license as a contractor under any of the categories listed in s. 489.105(3)(d)-(o)”. Since a CGC may lawfully perform such work, I would argue that drain work does not require a license under s. 489.105(3)(n) and accordingly romanette (iii) above is satisfied. This interpretation is bolstered by the text of s. 489.113(3) which lists various Division II scopes of work that a CGC must subcontract to a properly licensed Division II subcontractor. Missing from the list is the s. 489.105(3)(n) underground utility and excavation contractor scope.
In sum, I believe there is a credible argument that an unlicensed sub working under a CGC may perform the asphalt, curb and drain scopes under the supervision of the CGC without violating ch. 489.

Michael Gibbons
Shareholder
215 N. Eola Dr. | Orlando, FL 32801
D: 407.418.6378 | P: 407.843.4600 | Ext: 1378
Emailmailto:Michael.Gibbons@lowndes-law.com | Websitehttp://lowndes-law.com | Bio<lowndes-law.com/people-detail/client/Michael-Gibbons> | vCardhttps://lowndeslaw.dpmlocal.com/admin/vcard/generate.php?id=64

[cid:image002.png@01D94D0B.04AD3720]
LOCAL ROOTS. BROAD REACH. SM

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Wednesday, March 1, 2023 10:58 PM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: [CLC-Discussion] License Question

CAUTION: THIS IS AN EXTERNAL EMAIL

Evening all. I have a license question. If a sub, let’s say an unlicensed underground contractor doing curbs, drains, and asphalt, signs a subcontract with a licensed GC. Is that sub automatically “covered” by the GC’s license such that it does not need its own license to perform that work? If so, or if not, can someone point me to the statute, rule or regulation that requires that sub to have its own license? Thank you.

Regards,

Alex Barthet
Board Certified in Construction Law
TheLienZone Construction Law Bloghttps://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/vOv6Cv29QzuW1G2KiQNkG_/
Biographyhttps://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/vy30CwpR0ATL67A9cq5iRl/

The Barthet Firm
200 S. Biscayne Blvd., Suite 1650
Miami, Florida 33131
305-347-5295 (direct line)
alex@barthet.com mailto:alex@barthet.com
www.barthet.com https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/YqgUCyPJwDcNDg0kuR-vEF/

This electronic communication may contain privileged, confidential, or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of the intended recipient, please delete this communication and notify the sender. Thank you.

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[v4.30]

I think the majority of petitions are denied because they are defective. I think if the petition is on behalf of the license holder who has standing, and drafted to ask how these statutes apply to the licensee’s conduct in subcontracting the work to an unlicensed contractor in this specific instance, the CILB would be more likely to issue a Statement. Diane S. Perera, Esq. Board Certified in Construction Law Law Office of Diane S. Perera, P.A. 12150 SW 128 Ct., Suite 114 Miami, FL 33186 Office: 305-252-1388 Website: www.dpconstructionlaw.com Email: dperera@dpconstructionlaw.com CONFIDENTIAL: This e-mail and any Document(s) accompanying this transmittal contains information from the Law Office of Diane S. Perera, P.A., that is confidential and/or legally privileged. The information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or taking of any action in reliance upon the contents of this transmittal information is strictly prohibited and the document(s) should be returned to this firm immediately. If you have received this transmittal in error, please notify this firm immediately at (305) 252-1388 or by return e-mail. Any correspondence between a firm attorney and a prospective client is not to be construed as the engagement of any attorney at The Law Office of Diane S. Perera P.A. for legal representation unless the representation is evidenced in a writing signed by both parties. The discussion of matters between a firm attorney and a prospective client for legal representation is protected by the client/attorney privilege as directed by the Rules Regulating The Florida Bar; 4-1.6. From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion Sent: Thursday, March 2, 2023 1:18 PM To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] License Question Are you all finding that the CILB is willing to issue such declaratory statements or do they usually decline? I thought it was difficult to get them issue such decisions. Kind regards, Hardy Hardy L. Roberts Board Certified in Construction Law [cid:image001.png@01D94D0B.04AD3720] 712 S. Oregon Avenue Tampa, Florida 33606 Direct: 813-345-5212 | Cell: 813-966-9511 hroberts@careyomalley.com<mailto:hroberts@careyomalley.com> From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org>> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion Sent: Thursday, March 2, 2023 10:58 AM To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org> Cc: 14f1fe0e681e47009f01447edae921ab@lawmail.cosmolex.com<mailto:14f1fe0e681e47009f01447edae921ab@lawmail.cosmolex.com> Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] License Question I agree with Michael, but if the GC wants to be cautious and time permits, he/she can petition the CILB for a Declaratory Statement and obtain a response that is binding within the scope of his inquiry. Diane S. Perera, Esq. Board Certified in Construction Law Law Office of Diane S. Perera, P.A. 12150 SW 128 Ct., Suite 114 Miami, FL 33186 Office: 305-252-1388 Website: www.dpconstructionlaw.com<http://www.dpconstructionlaw.com> Email: dperera@dpconstructionlaw.com<mailto:dperera@dpconstructionlaw.com> CONFIDENTIAL: This e-mail and any Document(s) accompanying this transmittal contains information from the Law Office of Diane S. Perera, P.A., that is confidential and/or legally privileged. The information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or taking of any action in reliance upon the contents of this transmittal information is strictly prohibited and the document(s) should be returned to this firm immediately. If you have received this transmittal in error, please notify this firm immediately at (305) 252-1388 or by return e-mail. Any correspondence between a firm attorney and a prospective client is not to be construed as the engagement of any attorney at The Law Office of Diane S. Perera P.A. for legal representation unless the representation is evidenced in a writing signed by both parties. The discussion of matters between a firm attorney and a prospective client for legal representation is protected by the client/attorney privilege as directed by the Rules Regulating The Florida Bar; 4-1.6. From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org>> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion Sent: Thursday, March 2, 2023 8:54 AM To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org> Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] License Question Here are some initial thoughts to kick off discussion on the always fun ch. 489 licensure questions: 1. It is not clear where the asphalt, curb and drain work is taking place. Assuming this scope is being performed as part of street or road construction, there would be no ch. 489 licensure issue due to the exemption from Part 1 of ch. 489 found at Fla. Stat. s. 489.103(1). 1. Assuming the work is taking place in a parking lot or location other than a road or street, it gets interesting: 1. Starting with the definitions found at Fla. Stat. s. 489.105, work on asphalt and curbs does not appear to expressly fall within any of the listed licensure descriptions applicable to Division II contractors under s. 489.105(3)(d)-(o). Assuming the reference to “drains” refers to stormwater drains, the work on drains appears to fall within the “storm sewer collection system” scope of work applicable to an underground utility and excavation contractor at Fla. Stat. s. 489.105(3)(n). 1. After working through the statutory definitions, the next relevant portion of ch. 489 appears to be Fla. Stat. s. 489.113. Under Fla. Stat. s. 489.113(2), an unlicensed subcontractor may work under the supervision of a licensed contractor under the following conditions: (i) the work is within the scope of the supervising contractor’s license, (ii) the supervising contractor is responsible for the work, and (iii) the unlicensed subcontractor being supervised is not performing work for which a contractor must be licensed as a Division II contractor under s. 489.105(3)(d)-(o). 1. Under Fla. Stat. s. 489.113(3)(d), a CGC may perform any of the services for which a license as an underground utility and excavation contractor is required. Accordingly, romanette (i) above is satisfied. Satisfying romanette (ii) above should not be a heavy lift assuming the CGC is on the site permit and is contracted to the Owner. The analysis of romanette (iii) above is tricky. On the one hand, stormwater collection system work such as storm drains appears to fall within the licensure scope of an underground utility contractor pursuant to 489.105(3)(n). On the other hand, stormwater collection system work may expressly be performed by a CGC and is not restricted to the Division II underground utility license. It comes down to whether work on drains and stormwater collection systems is work “that would require a license as a contractor under any of the categories listed in s. 489.105(3)(d)-(o)”. Since a CGC may lawfully perform such work, I would argue that drain work does not require a license under s. 489.105(3)(n) and accordingly romanette (iii) above is satisfied. This interpretation is bolstered by the text of s. 489.113(3) which lists various Division II scopes of work that a CGC must subcontract to a properly licensed Division II subcontractor. Missing from the list is the s. 489.105(3)(n) underground utility and excavation contractor scope. 1. In sum, I believe there is a credible argument that an unlicensed sub working under a CGC may perform the asphalt, curb and drain scopes under the supervision of the CGC without violating ch. 489. Michael Gibbons Shareholder 215 N. Eola Dr. | Orlando, FL 32801 D: 407.418.6378 | P: 407.843.4600 | Ext: 1378 Email<mailto:Michael.Gibbons@lowndes-law.com> | Website<http://lowndes-law.com> | Bio<lowndes-law.com/people-detail/client/Michael-Gibbons> | vCard<https://lowndeslaw.dpmlocal.com/admin/vcard/generate.php?id=64> [cid:image002.png@01D94D0B.04AD3720] LOCAL ROOTS. BROAD REACH. SM From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org>> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion Sent: Wednesday, March 1, 2023 10:58 PM To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org> Subject: [CLC-Discussion] License Question CAUTION: THIS IS AN EXTERNAL EMAIL Evening all. I have a license question. If a sub, let’s say an unlicensed underground contractor doing curbs, drains, and asphalt, signs a subcontract with a licensed GC. Is that sub automatically “covered” by the GC’s license such that it does not need its own license to perform that work? If so, or if not, can someone point me to the statute, rule or regulation that requires that sub to have its own license? Thank you. Regards, Alex Barthet Board Certified in Construction Law TheLienZone Construction Law Blog<https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/vOv6Cv29QzuW1G2KiQNkG_/> Biography<https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/vy30CwpR0ATL67A9cq5iRl/> The Barthet Firm 200 S. Biscayne Blvd., Suite 1650 Miami, Florida 33131 305-347-5295 (direct line) alex@barthet.com<mailto:alex@barthet.com> www.barthet.com<https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/YqgUCyPJwDcNDg0kuR-vEF/> This electronic communication may contain privileged, confidential, or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of the intended recipient, please delete this communication and notify the sender. Thank you. Notice of Confidentiality: This e-mail communication and the attachment(s) hereto, if any, are intended solely for the information and use of the addressee(s) identified above and may contain information which is legally privileged from disclosure and/or otherwise confidential. If a recipient of this e-mail communication is not an addressee (or an authorized representative of an addressee), such recipient is hereby advised that any review, disclosure, reproduction, re-transmission or other dissemination or use of this e-mail communication (or any information contained herein) is strictly prohibited. If you are not an addressee and have received this e-mail communication in error, please advise the sender of that circumstance either by reply e-mail or by telephone at (800) 356-6818, immediately delete this e-mail communication from any computer and destroy all physical copies of same. Replies Filtered: Any incoming reply to this e-mail communication or other e-mail communication to us will be electronically filtered for "spam" and/or "viruses." That filtering process may result in such reply or other e-mail communications to us being quarantined (i.e., potentially not received at our site at all) and/or delayed in reaching us. For that reason, we cannot guarantee that we will receive your reply or other e-mail communications to us and/or that we will receive the same in a timely manner. Accordingly, you should consider sending communications to us which are particularly important or time-sensitive by means other than e-mail. [v4.30]

RC

RPPTL CLC-Discussion

Thu, Mar 2, 2023 6:47 PM

I haven’t read that the CILB won’t issue statements. It’s a statutory function, so I think if the petition is proper, the statement has to be issued. The CILB website doesn’t mention anything about not issuing statements.

Diane S. Perera, Esq.
Board Certified in Construction Law
Law Office of Diane S. Perera, P.A.
12150 SW 128 Ct., Suite 114
Miami, FL 33186
Office: 305-252-1388
Website: www.dpconstructionlaw.com
Email: dperera@dpconstructionlaw.com
CONFIDENTIAL: This e-mail and any Document(s) accompanying this transmittal contains information from the Law Office of Diane S. Perera, P.A., that is confidential and/or legally privileged. The information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or taking of any action in reliance upon the contents of this transmittal information is strictly prohibited and the document(s) should be returned to this firm immediately. If you have received this transmittal in error, please notify this firm immediately at (305) 252-1388 or by return e-mail.
Any correspondence between a firm attorney and a prospective client is not to be construed as the engagement of any attorney at The Law Office of Diane S. Perera P.A. for legal representation unless the representation is evidenced in a writing signed by both parties. The discussion of matters between a firm attorney and a prospective client for legal representation is protected by the client/attorney privilege as directed by the Rules Regulating The Florida Bar; 4-1.6.

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Thursday, March 2, 2023 1:28 PM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] License Question

I may be mistaken but I thought I read recently that going forward the CILB had decided it was no longer going to issue the Declaratory Statements.

Michael Gibbons
Shareholder
215 N. Eola Dr. | Orlando, FL 32801
D: 407.418.6378 | P: 407.843.4600 | Ext: 1378
Emailmailto:Michael.Gibbons@lowndes-law.com | Websitehttp://lowndes-law.com | Bio<lowndes-law.com/people-detail/client/Michael-Gibbons> | vCardhttps://lowndeslaw.dpmlocal.com/admin/vcard/generate.php?id=64

[cid:image001.png@01D94D0D.8CF01C40]
LOCAL ROOTS. BROAD REACH. SM

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Thursday, March 2, 2023 1:18 PM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] License Question

CAUTION: THIS IS AN EXTERNAL EMAIL

Are you all finding that the CILB is willing to issue such declaratory statements or do they usually decline? I thought it was difficult to get them issue such decisions.

Kind regards,
Hardy

Hardy L. Roberts
Board Certified in Construction Law
[cid:image002.png@01D94D0D.8CF01C40]
712 S. Oregon Avenue
Tampa, Florida 33606
Direct: 813-345-5212 | Cell: 813-966-9511
hroberts@careyomalley.com mailto:hroberts@careyomalley.com

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Thursday, March 2, 2023 10:58 AM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Cc: 14f1fe0e681e47009f01447edae921ab@lawmail.cosmolex.com mailto:14f1fe0e681e47009f01447edae921ab@lawmail.cosmolex.com
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] License Question

I agree with Michael, but if the GC wants to be cautious and time permits, he/she can petition the CILB for a Declaratory Statement and obtain a response that is binding within the scope of his inquiry.

Diane S. Perera, Esq.
Board Certified in Construction Law
Law Office of Diane S. Perera, P.A.
12150 SW 128 Ct., Suite 114
Miami, FL 33186
Office: 305-252-1388
Website: www.dpconstructionlaw.com http://www.dpconstructionlaw.com
Email: dperera@dpconstructionlaw.com mailto:dperera@dpconstructionlaw.com

CONFIDENTIAL: This e-mail and any Document(s) accompanying this transmittal contains information from the Law Office of Diane S. Perera, P.A., that is confidential and/or legally privileged. The information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or taking of any action in reliance upon the contents of this transmittal information is strictly prohibited and the document(s) should be returned to this firm immediately. If you have received this transmittal in error, please notify this firm immediately at (305) 252-1388 or by return e-mail.

Any correspondence between a firm attorney and a prospective client is not to be construed as the engagement of any attorney at The Law Office of Diane S. Perera P.A. for legal representation unless the representation is evidenced in a writing signed by both parties. The discussion of matters between a firm attorney and a prospective client for legal representation is protected by the client/attorney privilege as directed by the Rules Regulating The Florida Bar; 4-1.6.

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Thursday, March 2, 2023 8:54 AM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] License Question

Here are some initial thoughts to kick off discussion on the always fun ch. 489 licensure questions:

It is not clear where the asphalt, curb and drain work is taking place. Assuming this scope is being performed as part of street or road construction, there would be no ch. 489 licensure issue due to the exemption from Part 1 of ch. 489 found at Fla. Stat. s. 489.103(1).
Assuming the work is taking place in a parking lot or location other than a road or street, it gets interesting:
Starting with the definitions found at Fla. Stat. s. 489.105, work on asphalt and curbs does not appear to expressly fall within any of the listed licensure descriptions applicable to Division II contractors under s. 489.105(3)(d)-(o). Assuming the reference to “drains” refers to stormwater drains, the work on drains appears to fall within the “storm sewer collection system” scope of work applicable to an underground utility and excavation contractor at Fla. Stat. s. 489.105(3)(n).
After working through the statutory definitions, the next relevant portion of ch. 489 appears to be Fla. Stat. s. 489.113. Under Fla. Stat. s. 489.113(2), an unlicensed subcontractor may work under the supervision of a licensed contractor under the following conditions: (i) the work is within the scope of the supervising contractor’s license, (ii) the supervising contractor is responsible for the work, and (iii) the unlicensed subcontractor being supervised is not performing work for which a contractor must be licensed as a Division II contractor under s. 489.105(3)(d)-(o).
Under Fla. Stat. s. 489.113(3)(d), a CGC may perform any of the services for which a license as an underground utility and excavation contractor is required. Accordingly, romanette (i) above is satisfied. Satisfying romanette (ii) above should not be a heavy lift assuming the CGC is on the site permit and is contracted to the Owner. The analysis of romanette (iii) above is tricky. On the one hand, stormwater collection system work such as storm drains appears to fall within the licensure scope of an underground utility contractor pursuant to 489.105(3)(n). On the other hand, stormwater collection system work may expressly be performed by a CGC and is not restricted to the Division II underground utility license. It comes down to whether work on drains and stormwater collection systems is work “that would require a license as a contractor under any of the categories listed in s. 489.105(3)(d)-(o)”. Since a CGC may lawfully perform such work, I would argue that drain work does not require a license under s. 489.105(3)(n) and accordingly romanette (iii) above is satisfied. This interpretation is bolstered by the text of s. 489.113(3) which lists various Division II scopes of work that a CGC must subcontract to a properly licensed Division II subcontractor. Missing from the list is the s. 489.105(3)(n) underground utility and excavation contractor scope.
In sum, I believe there is a credible argument that an unlicensed sub working under a CGC may perform the asphalt, curb and drain scopes under the supervision of the CGC without violating ch. 489.

Michael Gibbons
Shareholder
215 N. Eola Dr. | Orlando, FL 32801
D: 407.418.6378 | P: 407.843.4600 | Ext: 1378
Emailmailto:Michael.Gibbons@lowndes-law.com | Websitehttp://lowndes-law.com | Biohttp://lowndes-law.com/people-detail/client/Michael-Gibbons | vCardhttps://lowndeslaw.dpmlocal.com/admin/vcard/generate.php?id=64

[cid:image003.png@01D94D0D.8CF01C40]
LOCAL ROOTS. BROAD REACH. SM

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Wednesday, March 1, 2023 10:58 PM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: [CLC-Discussion] License Question

CAUTION: THIS IS AN EXTERNAL EMAIL

Evening all. I have a license question. If a sub, let’s say an unlicensed underground contractor doing curbs, drains, and asphalt, signs a subcontract with a licensed GC. Is that sub automatically “covered” by the GC’s license such that it does not need its own license to perform that work? If so, or if not, can someone point me to the statute, rule or regulation that requires that sub to have its own license? Thank you.

Regards,

Alex Barthet
Board Certified in Construction Law
TheLienZone Construction Law Bloghttps://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/JhCZCpYXZqHzk7k5s2LAKq/
Biographyhttps://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/lmqbCqxMQrTOBVB9hqXRv6/

The Barthet Firm
200 S. Biscayne Blvd., Suite 1650
Miami, Florida 33131
305-347-5295 (direct line)
alex@barthet.com mailto:alex@barthet.com
www.barthet.com https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/zbtuCv29QzuW1R1vcwMJGd/

This electronic communication may contain privileged, confidential, or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of the intended recipient, please delete this communication and notify the sender. Thank you.

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[v4.30]

Notice of Confidentiality: This e-mail communication and the attachment(s) hereto, if any, are intended solely for the information and use of the addressee(s) identified above and may contain information which is legally privileged from disclosure and/or otherwise confidential. If a recipient of this e-mail communication is not an addressee (or an authorized representative of an addressee), such recipient is hereby advised that any review, disclosure, reproduction, re-transmission or other dissemination or use of this e-mail communication (or any information contained herein) is strictly prohibited. If you are not an addressee and have received this e-mail communication in error, please advise the sender of that circumstance either by reply e-mail or by telephone at (800) 356-6818, immediately delete this e-mail communication from any computer and destroy all physical copies of same.

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[v4.30]

I haven’t read that the CILB won’t issue statements. It’s a statutory function, so I think if the petition is proper, the statement has to be issued. The CILB website doesn’t mention anything about not issuing statements. Diane S. Perera, Esq. Board Certified in Construction Law Law Office of Diane S. Perera, P.A. 12150 SW 128 Ct., Suite 114 Miami, FL 33186 Office: 305-252-1388 Website: www.dpconstructionlaw.com Email: dperera@dpconstructionlaw.com CONFIDENTIAL: This e-mail and any Document(s) accompanying this transmittal contains information from the Law Office of Diane S. Perera, P.A., that is confidential and/or legally privileged. The information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or taking of any action in reliance upon the contents of this transmittal information is strictly prohibited and the document(s) should be returned to this firm immediately. If you have received this transmittal in error, please notify this firm immediately at (305) 252-1388 or by return e-mail. Any correspondence between a firm attorney and a prospective client is not to be construed as the engagement of any attorney at The Law Office of Diane S. Perera P.A. for legal representation unless the representation is evidenced in a writing signed by both parties. The discussion of matters between a firm attorney and a prospective client for legal representation is protected by the client/attorney privilege as directed by the Rules Regulating The Florida Bar; 4-1.6. From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion Sent: Thursday, March 2, 2023 1:28 PM To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] License Question I may be mistaken but I thought I read recently that going forward the CILB had decided it was no longer going to issue the Declaratory Statements. Michael Gibbons Shareholder 215 N. Eola Dr. | Orlando, FL 32801 D: 407.418.6378 | P: 407.843.4600 | Ext: 1378 Email<mailto:Michael.Gibbons@lowndes-law.com> | Website<http://lowndes-law.com> | Bio<lowndes-law.com/people-detail/client/Michael-Gibbons> | vCard<https://lowndeslaw.dpmlocal.com/admin/vcard/generate.php?id=64> [cid:image001.png@01D94D0D.8CF01C40] LOCAL ROOTS. BROAD REACH. SM From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org>> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion Sent: Thursday, March 2, 2023 1:18 PM To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org> Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] License Question CAUTION: THIS IS AN EXTERNAL EMAIL Are you all finding that the CILB is willing to issue such declaratory statements or do they usually decline? I thought it was difficult to get them issue such decisions. Kind regards, Hardy Hardy L. Roberts Board Certified in Construction Law [cid:image002.png@01D94D0D.8CF01C40] 712 S. Oregon Avenue Tampa, Florida 33606 Direct: 813-345-5212 | Cell: 813-966-9511 hroberts@careyomalley.com<mailto:hroberts@careyomalley.com> From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org>> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion Sent: Thursday, March 2, 2023 10:58 AM To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org> Cc: 14f1fe0e681e47009f01447edae921ab@lawmail.cosmolex.com<mailto:14f1fe0e681e47009f01447edae921ab@lawmail.cosmolex.com> Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] License Question I agree with Michael, but if the GC wants to be cautious and time permits, he/she can petition the CILB for a Declaratory Statement and obtain a response that is binding within the scope of his inquiry. Diane S. Perera, Esq. Board Certified in Construction Law Law Office of Diane S. Perera, P.A. 12150 SW 128 Ct., Suite 114 Miami, FL 33186 Office: 305-252-1388 Website: www.dpconstructionlaw.com<http://www.dpconstructionlaw.com> Email: dperera@dpconstructionlaw.com<mailto:dperera@dpconstructionlaw.com> CONFIDENTIAL: This e-mail and any Document(s) accompanying this transmittal contains information from the Law Office of Diane S. Perera, P.A., that is confidential and/or legally privileged. The information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or taking of any action in reliance upon the contents of this transmittal information is strictly prohibited and the document(s) should be returned to this firm immediately. If you have received this transmittal in error, please notify this firm immediately at (305) 252-1388 or by return e-mail. Any correspondence between a firm attorney and a prospective client is not to be construed as the engagement of any attorney at The Law Office of Diane S. Perera P.A. for legal representation unless the representation is evidenced in a writing signed by both parties. The discussion of matters between a firm attorney and a prospective client for legal representation is protected by the client/attorney privilege as directed by the Rules Regulating The Florida Bar; 4-1.6. From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org>> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion Sent: Thursday, March 2, 2023 8:54 AM To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org> Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] License Question Here are some initial thoughts to kick off discussion on the always fun ch. 489 licensure questions: 1. It is not clear where the asphalt, curb and drain work is taking place. Assuming this scope is being performed as part of street or road construction, there would be no ch. 489 licensure issue due to the exemption from Part 1 of ch. 489 found at Fla. Stat. s. 489.103(1). 1. Assuming the work is taking place in a parking lot or location other than a road or street, it gets interesting: 1. Starting with the definitions found at Fla. Stat. s. 489.105, work on asphalt and curbs does not appear to expressly fall within any of the listed licensure descriptions applicable to Division II contractors under s. 489.105(3)(d)-(o). Assuming the reference to “drains” refers to stormwater drains, the work on drains appears to fall within the “storm sewer collection system” scope of work applicable to an underground utility and excavation contractor at Fla. Stat. s. 489.105(3)(n). 1. After working through the statutory definitions, the next relevant portion of ch. 489 appears to be Fla. Stat. s. 489.113. Under Fla. Stat. s. 489.113(2), an unlicensed subcontractor may work under the supervision of a licensed contractor under the following conditions: (i) the work is within the scope of the supervising contractor’s license, (ii) the supervising contractor is responsible for the work, and (iii) the unlicensed subcontractor being supervised is not performing work for which a contractor must be licensed as a Division II contractor under s. 489.105(3)(d)-(o). 1. Under Fla. Stat. s. 489.113(3)(d), a CGC may perform any of the services for which a license as an underground utility and excavation contractor is required. Accordingly, romanette (i) above is satisfied. Satisfying romanette (ii) above should not be a heavy lift assuming the CGC is on the site permit and is contracted to the Owner. The analysis of romanette (iii) above is tricky. On the one hand, stormwater collection system work such as storm drains appears to fall within the licensure scope of an underground utility contractor pursuant to 489.105(3)(n). On the other hand, stormwater collection system work may expressly be performed by a CGC and is not restricted to the Division II underground utility license. It comes down to whether work on drains and stormwater collection systems is work “that would require a license as a contractor under any of the categories listed in s. 489.105(3)(d)-(o)”. Since a CGC may lawfully perform such work, I would argue that drain work does not require a license under s. 489.105(3)(n) and accordingly romanette (iii) above is satisfied. This interpretation is bolstered by the text of s. 489.113(3) which lists various Division II scopes of work that a CGC must subcontract to a properly licensed Division II subcontractor. Missing from the list is the s. 489.105(3)(n) underground utility and excavation contractor scope. 1. In sum, I believe there is a credible argument that an unlicensed sub working under a CGC may perform the asphalt, curb and drain scopes under the supervision of the CGC without violating ch. 489. Michael Gibbons Shareholder 215 N. Eola Dr. | Orlando, FL 32801 D: 407.418.6378 | P: 407.843.4600 | Ext: 1378 Email<mailto:Michael.Gibbons@lowndes-law.com> | Website<http://lowndes-law.com> | Bio<http://lowndes-law.com/people-detail/client/Michael-Gibbons> | vCard<https://lowndeslaw.dpmlocal.com/admin/vcard/generate.php?id=64> [cid:image003.png@01D94D0D.8CF01C40] LOCAL ROOTS. BROAD REACH. SM From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org>> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion Sent: Wednesday, March 1, 2023 10:58 PM To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org> Subject: [CLC-Discussion] License Question CAUTION: THIS IS AN EXTERNAL EMAIL Evening all. I have a license question. If a sub, let’s say an unlicensed underground contractor doing curbs, drains, and asphalt, signs a subcontract with a licensed GC. Is that sub automatically “covered” by the GC’s license such that it does not need its own license to perform that work? If so, or if not, can someone point me to the statute, rule or regulation that requires that sub to have its own license? Thank you. Regards, Alex Barthet Board Certified in Construction Law TheLienZone Construction Law Blog<https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/JhCZCpYXZqHzk7k5s2LAKq/> Biography<https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/lmqbCqxMQrTOBVB9hqXRv6/> The Barthet Firm 200 S. Biscayne Blvd., Suite 1650 Miami, Florida 33131 305-347-5295 (direct line) alex@barthet.com<mailto:alex@barthet.com> www.barthet.com<https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/zbtuCv29QzuW1R1vcwMJGd/> This electronic communication may contain privileged, confidential, or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of the intended recipient, please delete this communication and notify the sender. Thank you. Notice of Confidentiality: This e-mail communication and the attachment(s) hereto, if any, are intended solely for the information and use of the addressee(s) identified above and may contain information which is legally privileged from disclosure and/or otherwise confidential. If a recipient of this e-mail communication is not an addressee (or an authorized representative of an addressee), such recipient is hereby advised that any review, disclosure, reproduction, re-transmission or other dissemination or use of this e-mail communication (or any information contained herein) is strictly prohibited. If you are not an addressee and have received this e-mail communication in error, please advise the sender of that circumstance either by reply e-mail or by telephone at (800) 356-6818, immediately delete this e-mail communication from any computer and destroy all physical copies of same. Replies Filtered: Any incoming reply to this e-mail communication or other e-mail communication to us will be electronically filtered for "spam" and/or "viruses." That filtering process may result in such reply or other e-mail communications to us being quarantined (i.e., potentially not received at our site at all) and/or delayed in reaching us. For that reason, we cannot guarantee that we will receive your reply or other e-mail communications to us and/or that we will receive the same in a timely manner. Accordingly, you should consider sending communications to us which are particularly important or time-sensitive by means other than e-mail. [v4.30] Notice of Confidentiality: This e-mail communication and the attachment(s) hereto, if any, are intended solely for the information and use of the addressee(s) identified above and may contain information which is legally privileged from disclosure and/or otherwise confidential. If a recipient of this e-mail communication is not an addressee (or an authorized representative of an addressee), such recipient is hereby advised that any review, disclosure, reproduction, re-transmission or other dissemination or use of this e-mail communication (or any information contained herein) is strictly prohibited. If you are not an addressee and have received this e-mail communication in error, please advise the sender of that circumstance either by reply e-mail or by telephone at (800) 356-6818, immediately delete this e-mail communication from any computer and destroy all physical copies of same. Replies Filtered: Any incoming reply to this e-mail communication or other e-mail communication to us will be electronically filtered for "spam" and/or "viruses." That filtering process may result in such reply or other e-mail communications to us being quarantined (i.e., potentially not received at our site at all) and/or delayed in reaching us. For that reason, we cannot guarantee that we will receive your reply or other e-mail communications to us and/or that we will receive the same in a timely manner. Accordingly, you should consider sending communications to us which are particularly important or time-sensitive by means other than e-mail. [v4.30]

RC

RPPTL CLC-Discussion

Thu, Mar 2, 2023 7:13 PM

The attached document from the CILB indicates that “The CILB is not expected to issue any further declaratory statements in light of antitrust law concerns”. This document was provided to me a few months ago by a contractor client.

Michael Gibbons
Shareholder
215 N. Eola Dr. | Orlando, FL 32801
D: 407.418.6378 | P: 407.843.4600 | Ext: 1378
Emailmailto:Michael.Gibbons@lowndes-law.com | Websitehttp://lowndes-law.com | Bio<lowndes-law.com/people-detail/client/Michael-Gibbons> | vCardhttps://lowndeslaw.dpmlocal.com/admin/vcard/generate.php?id=64

[cid:image001.png@01D94D11.25CBDB40]
LOCAL ROOTS. BROAD REACH. SM

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Thursday, March 2, 2023 1:48 PM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Cc: 14f1fe0e681e47009f01447edae921ab@lawmail.cosmolex.com
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] License Question

CAUTION: THIS IS AN EXTERNAL EMAIL

I haven’t read that the CILB won’t issue statements. It’s a statutory function, so I think if the petition is proper, the statement has to be issued. The CILB website doesn’t mention anything about not issuing statements.

Diane S. Perera, Esq.
Board Certified in Construction Law
Law Office of Diane S. Perera, P.A.
12150 SW 128 Ct., Suite 114
Miami, FL 33186
Office: 305-252-1388
Website: www.dpconstructionlaw.com http://www.dpconstructionlaw.com
Email: dperera@dpconstructionlaw.com mailto:dperera@dpconstructionlaw.com

CONFIDENTIAL: This e-mail and any Document(s) accompanying this transmittal contains information from the Law Office of Diane S. Perera, P.A., that is confidential and/or legally privileged. The information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or taking of any action in reliance upon the contents of this transmittal information is strictly prohibited and the document(s) should be returned to this firm immediately. If you have received this transmittal in error, please notify this firm immediately at (305) 252-1388 or by return e-mail.

Any correspondence between a firm attorney and a prospective client is not to be construed as the engagement of any attorney at The Law Office of Diane S. Perera P.A. for legal representation unless the representation is evidenced in a writing signed by both parties. The discussion of matters between a firm attorney and a prospective client for legal representation is protected by the client/attorney privilege as directed by the Rules Regulating The Florida Bar; 4-1.6.

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Thursday, March 2, 2023 1:28 PM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] License Question

I may be mistaken but I thought I read recently that going forward the CILB had decided it was no longer going to issue the Declaratory Statements.

Michael Gibbons
Shareholder
215 N. Eola Dr. | Orlando, FL 32801
D: 407.418.6378 | P: 407.843.4600 | Ext: 1378
Emailmailto:Michael.Gibbons@lowndes-law.com | Websitehttp://lowndes-law.com | Biohttp://lowndes-law.com/people-detail/client/Michael-Gibbons | vCardhttps://lowndeslaw.dpmlocal.com/admin/vcard/generate.php?id=64

[cid:image001.png@01D94D11.25CBDB40]
LOCAL ROOTS. BROAD REACH. SM

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Thursday, March 2, 2023 1:18 PM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] License Question

CAUTION: THIS IS AN EXTERNAL EMAIL

Are you all finding that the CILB is willing to issue such declaratory statements or do they usually decline? I thought it was difficult to get them issue such decisions.

Kind regards,
Hardy

Hardy L. Roberts
Board Certified in Construction Law
[cid:image007.png@01D94D11.25AD56C0]
712 S. Oregon Avenue
Tampa, Florida 33606
Direct: 813-345-5212 | Cell: 813-966-9511
hroberts@careyomalley.com mailto:hroberts@careyomalley.com

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Thursday, March 2, 2023 10:58 AM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Cc: 14f1fe0e681e47009f01447edae921ab@lawmail.cosmolex.com mailto:14f1fe0e681e47009f01447edae921ab@lawmail.cosmolex.com
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] License Question

I agree with Michael, but if the GC wants to be cautious and time permits, he/she can petition the CILB for a Declaratory Statement and obtain a response that is binding within the scope of his inquiry.

Diane S. Perera, Esq.
Board Certified in Construction Law
Law Office of Diane S. Perera, P.A.
12150 SW 128 Ct., Suite 114
Miami, FL 33186
Office: 305-252-1388
Website: www.dpconstructionlaw.com http://www.dpconstructionlaw.com
Email: dperera@dpconstructionlaw.com mailto:dperera@dpconstructionlaw.com

CONFIDENTIAL: This e-mail and any Document(s) accompanying this transmittal contains information from the Law Office of Diane S. Perera, P.A., that is confidential and/or legally privileged. The information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or taking of any action in reliance upon the contents of this transmittal information is strictly prohibited and the document(s) should be returned to this firm immediately. If you have received this transmittal in error, please notify this firm immediately at (305) 252-1388 or by return e-mail.

Any correspondence between a firm attorney and a prospective client is not to be construed as the engagement of any attorney at The Law Office of Diane S. Perera P.A. for legal representation unless the representation is evidenced in a writing signed by both parties. The discussion of matters between a firm attorney and a prospective client for legal representation is protected by the client/attorney privilege as directed by the Rules Regulating The Florida Bar; 4-1.6.

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Thursday, March 2, 2023 8:54 AM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] License Question

Here are some initial thoughts to kick off discussion on the always fun ch. 489 licensure questions:

It is not clear where the asphalt, curb and drain work is taking place. Assuming this scope is being performed as part of street or road construction, there would be no ch. 489 licensure issue due to the exemption from Part 1 of ch. 489 found at Fla. Stat. s. 489.103(1).
Assuming the work is taking place in a parking lot or location other than a road or street, it gets interesting:
Starting with the definitions found at Fla. Stat. s. 489.105, work on asphalt and curbs does not appear to expressly fall within any of the listed licensure descriptions applicable to Division II contractors under s. 489.105(3)(d)-(o). Assuming the reference to “drains” refers to stormwater drains, the work on drains appears to fall within the “storm sewer collection system” scope of work applicable to an underground utility and excavation contractor at Fla. Stat. s. 489.105(3)(n).
After working through the statutory definitions, the next relevant portion of ch. 489 appears to be Fla. Stat. s. 489.113. Under Fla. Stat. s. 489.113(2), an unlicensed subcontractor may work under the supervision of a licensed contractor under the following conditions: (i) the work is within the scope of the supervising contractor’s license, (ii) the supervising contractor is responsible for the work, and (iii) the unlicensed subcontractor being supervised is not performing work for which a contractor must be licensed as a Division II contractor under s. 489.105(3)(d)-(o).
Under Fla. Stat. s. 489.113(3)(d), a CGC may perform any of the services for which a license as an underground utility and excavation contractor is required. Accordingly, romanette (i) above is satisfied. Satisfying romanette (ii) above should not be a heavy lift assuming the CGC is on the site permit and is contracted to the Owner. The analysis of romanette (iii) above is tricky. On the one hand, stormwater collection system work such as storm drains appears to fall within the licensure scope of an underground utility contractor pursuant to 489.105(3)(n). On the other hand, stormwater collection system work may expressly be performed by a CGC and is not restricted to the Division II underground utility license. It comes down to whether work on drains and stormwater collection systems is work “that would require a license as a contractor under any of the categories listed in s. 489.105(3)(d)-(o)”. Since a CGC may lawfully perform such work, I would argue that drain work does not require a license under s. 489.105(3)(n) and accordingly romanette (iii) above is satisfied. This interpretation is bolstered by the text of s. 489.113(3) which lists various Division II scopes of work that a CGC must subcontract to a properly licensed Division II subcontractor. Missing from the list is the s. 489.105(3)(n) underground utility and excavation contractor scope.
In sum, I believe there is a credible argument that an unlicensed sub working under a CGC may perform the asphalt, curb and drain scopes under the supervision of the CGC without violating ch. 489.

Michael Gibbons
Shareholder
215 N. Eola Dr. | Orlando, FL 32801
D: 407.418.6378 | P: 407.843.4600 | Ext: 1378
Emailmailto:Michael.Gibbons@lowndes-law.com | Websitehttp://lowndes-law.com | Biohttp://lowndes-law.com/people-detail/client/Michael-Gibbons | vCardhttps://lowndeslaw.dpmlocal.com/admin/vcard/generate.php?id=64

[cid:image008.png@01D94D11.25AD56C0]
LOCAL ROOTS. BROAD REACH. SM

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Wednesday, March 1, 2023 10:58 PM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: [CLC-Discussion] License Question

CAUTION: THIS IS AN EXTERNAL EMAIL

Evening all. I have a license question. If a sub, let’s say an unlicensed underground contractor doing curbs, drains, and asphalt, signs a subcontract with a licensed GC. Is that sub automatically “covered” by the GC’s license such that it does not need its own license to perform that work? If so, or if not, can someone point me to the statute, rule or regulation that requires that sub to have its own license? Thank you.

Regards,

Alex Barthet
Board Certified in Construction Law
TheLienZone Construction Law Bloghttps://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/AT73CJ6782h8OnqwippBDo/
Biographyhttps://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/IPOYCKr582hqK12WsnazH9/

The Barthet Firm
200 S. Biscayne Blvd., Suite 1650
Miami, Florida 33131
305-347-5295 (direct line)
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The attached document from the CILB indicates that “The CILB is not expected to issue any further declaratory statements in light of antitrust law concerns”. This document was provided to me a few months ago by a contractor client. Michael Gibbons Shareholder 215 N. Eola Dr. | Orlando, FL 32801 D: 407.418.6378 | P: 407.843.4600 | Ext: 1378 Email<mailto:Michael.Gibbons@lowndes-law.com> | Website<http://lowndes-law.com> | Bio<lowndes-law.com/people-detail/client/Michael-Gibbons> | vCard<https://lowndeslaw.dpmlocal.com/admin/vcard/generate.php?id=64> [cid:image001.png@01D94D11.25CBDB40] LOCAL ROOTS. BROAD REACH. SM From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion Sent: Thursday, March 2, 2023 1:48 PM To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org Cc: 14f1fe0e681e47009f01447edae921ab@lawmail.cosmolex.com Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] License Question CAUTION: THIS IS AN EXTERNAL EMAIL I haven’t read that the CILB won’t issue statements. It’s a statutory function, so I think if the petition is proper, the statement has to be issued. The CILB website doesn’t mention anything about not issuing statements. Diane S. Perera, Esq. Board Certified in Construction Law Law Office of Diane S. Perera, P.A. 12150 SW 128 Ct., Suite 114 Miami, FL 33186 Office: 305-252-1388 Website: www.dpconstructionlaw.com<http://www.dpconstructionlaw.com> Email: dperera@dpconstructionlaw.com<mailto:dperera@dpconstructionlaw.com> CONFIDENTIAL: This e-mail and any Document(s) accompanying this transmittal contains information from the Law Office of Diane S. Perera, P.A., that is confidential and/or legally privileged. The information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or taking of any action in reliance upon the contents of this transmittal information is strictly prohibited and the document(s) should be returned to this firm immediately. If you have received this transmittal in error, please notify this firm immediately at (305) 252-1388 or by return e-mail. Any correspondence between a firm attorney and a prospective client is not to be construed as the engagement of any attorney at The Law Office of Diane S. Perera P.A. for legal representation unless the representation is evidenced in a writing signed by both parties. The discussion of matters between a firm attorney and a prospective client for legal representation is protected by the client/attorney privilege as directed by the Rules Regulating The Florida Bar; 4-1.6. From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org>> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion Sent: Thursday, March 2, 2023 1:28 PM To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org> Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] License Question I may be mistaken but I thought I read recently that going forward the CILB had decided it was no longer going to issue the Declaratory Statements. Michael Gibbons Shareholder 215 N. Eola Dr. | Orlando, FL 32801 D: 407.418.6378 | P: 407.843.4600 | Ext: 1378 Email<mailto:Michael.Gibbons@lowndes-law.com> | Website<http://lowndes-law.com> | Bio<http://lowndes-law.com/people-detail/client/Michael-Gibbons> | vCard<https://lowndeslaw.dpmlocal.com/admin/vcard/generate.php?id=64> [cid:image001.png@01D94D11.25CBDB40] LOCAL ROOTS. BROAD REACH. SM From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org>> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion Sent: Thursday, March 2, 2023 1:18 PM To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org> Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] License Question CAUTION: THIS IS AN EXTERNAL EMAIL Are you all finding that the CILB is willing to issue such declaratory statements or do they usually decline? I thought it was difficult to get them issue such decisions. Kind regards, Hardy Hardy L. Roberts Board Certified in Construction Law [cid:image007.png@01D94D11.25AD56C0] 712 S. Oregon Avenue Tampa, Florida 33606 Direct: 813-345-5212 | Cell: 813-966-9511 hroberts@careyomalley.com<mailto:hroberts@careyomalley.com> From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org>> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion Sent: Thursday, March 2, 2023 10:58 AM To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org> Cc: 14f1fe0e681e47009f01447edae921ab@lawmail.cosmolex.com<mailto:14f1fe0e681e47009f01447edae921ab@lawmail.cosmolex.com> Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] License Question I agree with Michael, but if the GC wants to be cautious and time permits, he/she can petition the CILB for a Declaratory Statement and obtain a response that is binding within the scope of his inquiry. Diane S. Perera, Esq. Board Certified in Construction Law Law Office of Diane S. Perera, P.A. 12150 SW 128 Ct., Suite 114 Miami, FL 33186 Office: 305-252-1388 Website: www.dpconstructionlaw.com<http://www.dpconstructionlaw.com> Email: dperera@dpconstructionlaw.com<mailto:dperera@dpconstructionlaw.com> CONFIDENTIAL: This e-mail and any Document(s) accompanying this transmittal contains information from the Law Office of Diane S. Perera, P.A., that is confidential and/or legally privileged. The information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or taking of any action in reliance upon the contents of this transmittal information is strictly prohibited and the document(s) should be returned to this firm immediately. If you have received this transmittal in error, please notify this firm immediately at (305) 252-1388 or by return e-mail. Any correspondence between a firm attorney and a prospective client is not to be construed as the engagement of any attorney at The Law Office of Diane S. Perera P.A. for legal representation unless the representation is evidenced in a writing signed by both parties. The discussion of matters between a firm attorney and a prospective client for legal representation is protected by the client/attorney privilege as directed by the Rules Regulating The Florida Bar; 4-1.6. From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org>> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion Sent: Thursday, March 2, 2023 8:54 AM To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org> Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] License Question Here are some initial thoughts to kick off discussion on the always fun ch. 489 licensure questions: 1. It is not clear where the asphalt, curb and drain work is taking place. Assuming this scope is being performed as part of street or road construction, there would be no ch. 489 licensure issue due to the exemption from Part 1 of ch. 489 found at Fla. Stat. s. 489.103(1). 1. Assuming the work is taking place in a parking lot or location other than a road or street, it gets interesting: 1. Starting with the definitions found at Fla. Stat. s. 489.105, work on asphalt and curbs does not appear to expressly fall within any of the listed licensure descriptions applicable to Division II contractors under s. 489.105(3)(d)-(o). Assuming the reference to “drains” refers to stormwater drains, the work on drains appears to fall within the “storm sewer collection system” scope of work applicable to an underground utility and excavation contractor at Fla. Stat. s. 489.105(3)(n). 1. After working through the statutory definitions, the next relevant portion of ch. 489 appears to be Fla. Stat. s. 489.113. Under Fla. Stat. s. 489.113(2), an unlicensed subcontractor may work under the supervision of a licensed contractor under the following conditions: (i) the work is within the scope of the supervising contractor’s license, (ii) the supervising contractor is responsible for the work, and (iii) the unlicensed subcontractor being supervised is not performing work for which a contractor must be licensed as a Division II contractor under s. 489.105(3)(d)-(o). 1. Under Fla. Stat. s. 489.113(3)(d), a CGC may perform any of the services for which a license as an underground utility and excavation contractor is required. Accordingly, romanette (i) above is satisfied. Satisfying romanette (ii) above should not be a heavy lift assuming the CGC is on the site permit and is contracted to the Owner. The analysis of romanette (iii) above is tricky. On the one hand, stormwater collection system work such as storm drains appears to fall within the licensure scope of an underground utility contractor pursuant to 489.105(3)(n). On the other hand, stormwater collection system work may expressly be performed by a CGC and is not restricted to the Division II underground utility license. It comes down to whether work on drains and stormwater collection systems is work “that would require a license as a contractor under any of the categories listed in s. 489.105(3)(d)-(o)”. Since a CGC may lawfully perform such work, I would argue that drain work does not require a license under s. 489.105(3)(n) and accordingly romanette (iii) above is satisfied. This interpretation is bolstered by the text of s. 489.113(3) which lists various Division II scopes of work that a CGC must subcontract to a properly licensed Division II subcontractor. Missing from the list is the s. 489.105(3)(n) underground utility and excavation contractor scope. 1. In sum, I believe there is a credible argument that an unlicensed sub working under a CGC may perform the asphalt, curb and drain scopes under the supervision of the CGC without violating ch. 489. Michael Gibbons Shareholder 215 N. Eola Dr. | Orlando, FL 32801 D: 407.418.6378 | P: 407.843.4600 | Ext: 1378 Email<mailto:Michael.Gibbons@lowndes-law.com> | Website<http://lowndes-law.com> | Bio<http://lowndes-law.com/people-detail/client/Michael-Gibbons> | vCard<https://lowndeslaw.dpmlocal.com/admin/vcard/generate.php?id=64> [cid:image008.png@01D94D11.25AD56C0] LOCAL ROOTS. BROAD REACH. SM From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org>> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion Sent: Wednesday, March 1, 2023 10:58 PM To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org> Subject: [CLC-Discussion] License Question CAUTION: THIS IS AN EXTERNAL EMAIL Evening all. I have a license question. If a sub, let’s say an unlicensed underground contractor doing curbs, drains, and asphalt, signs a subcontract with a licensed GC. Is that sub automatically “covered” by the GC’s license such that it does not need its own license to perform that work? If so, or if not, can someone point me to the statute, rule or regulation that requires that sub to have its own license? Thank you. Regards, Alex Barthet Board Certified in Construction Law TheLienZone Construction Law Blog<https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/AT73CJ6782h8OnqwippBDo/> Biography<https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/IPOYCKr582hqK12WsnazH9/> The Barthet Firm 200 S. Biscayne Blvd., Suite 1650 Miami, Florida 33131 305-347-5295 (direct line) alex@barthet.com<mailto:alex@barthet.com> www.barthet.com<https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/jTP8CM85Z2T5PJq3IR5lX8/> This electronic communication may contain privileged, confidential, or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of the intended recipient, please delete this communication and notify the sender. Thank you. Notice of Confidentiality: This e-mail communication and the attachment(s) hereto, if any, are intended solely for the information and use of the addressee(s) identified above and may contain information which is legally privileged from disclosure and/or otherwise confidential. If a recipient of this e-mail communication is not an addressee (or an authorized representative of an addressee), such recipient is hereby advised that any review, disclosure, reproduction, re-transmission or other dissemination or use of this e-mail communication (or any information contained herein) is strictly prohibited. If you are not an addressee and have received this e-mail communication in error, please advise the sender of that circumstance either by reply e-mail or by telephone at (800) 356-6818, immediately delete this e-mail communication from any computer and destroy all physical copies of same. Replies Filtered: Any incoming reply to this e-mail communication or other e-mail communication to us will be electronically filtered for "spam" and/or "viruses." That filtering process may result in such reply or other e-mail communications to us being quarantined (i.e., potentially not received at our site at all) and/or delayed in reaching us. For that reason, we cannot guarantee that we will receive your reply or other e-mail communications to us and/or that we will receive the same in a timely manner. Accordingly, you should consider sending communications to us which are particularly important or time-sensitive by means other than e-mail. [v4.30] Notice of Confidentiality: This e-mail communication and the attachment(s) hereto, if any, are intended solely for the information and use of the addressee(s) identified above and may contain information which is legally privileged from disclosure and/or otherwise confidential. If a recipient of this e-mail communication is not an addressee (or an authorized representative of an addressee), such recipient is hereby advised that any review, disclosure, reproduction, re-transmission or other dissemination or use of this e-mail communication (or any information contained herein) is strictly prohibited. If you are not an addressee and have received this e-mail communication in error, please advise the sender of that circumstance either by reply e-mail or by telephone at (800) 356-6818, immediately delete this e-mail communication from any computer and destroy all physical copies of same. Replies Filtered: Any incoming reply to this e-mail communication or other e-mail communication to us will be electronically filtered for "spam" and/or "viruses." That filtering process may result in such reply or other e-mail communications to us being quarantined (i.e., potentially not received at our site at all) and/or delayed in reaching us. For that reason, we cannot guarantee that we will receive your reply or other e-mail communications to us and/or that we will receive the same in a timely manner. Accordingly, you should consider sending communications to us which are particularly important or time-sensitive by means other than e-mail. [v4.30] This email message has been delivered safely and archived online by Mimecast. For more information please visit http://www.mimecast.com

RC

RPPTL CLC-Discussion

Thu, Mar 2, 2023 7:17 PM

Antitrust law concerns???? Maybe Congress should stop enacting laws too for the same reason.

Lee A. Weintraub
Shareholder
Board Certified in Construction Law
Chair, Public Private Partnerships Practice Group
Vice Chair, Construction Law and Litigation Practice Group
Becker & Poliakoff
1 East Broward Blvd., Suite 1800
Ft. Lauderdale,
FL
33301
954.985.4147
954.985.4176
lweintraub@beckerlawyers.com
www.beckerlawyers.com
Connect with me on LinkedIn
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From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Thursday, March 2, 2023 2:14 PM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
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Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] License Question

EXTERNAL EMAIL - This message originated from an External Source.

The attached document from the CILB indicates that “The CILB is not expected to issue any further declaratory statements in light of antitrust law concerns”. This document was provided to me a few months ago by a contractor client.

Michael Gibbons
Shareholder
215 N. Eola Dr. | Orlando, FL 32801
D: 407.418.6378 | P: 407.843.4600 | Ext: 1378
Emailmailto:Michael.Gibbons@lowndes-law.com | Websitehttp://lowndes-law.com | Bio<lowndes-law.com/people-detail/client/Michael-Gibbons> | vCardhttps://lowndeslaw.dpmlocal.com/admin/vcard/generate.php?id=64

[cid:image001.png@01D94D11.B68EB990]
LOCAL ROOTS. BROAD REACH. SM

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Thursday, March 2, 2023 1:48 PM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Cc: 14f1fe0e681e47009f01447edae921ab@lawmail.cosmolex.com mailto:14f1fe0e681e47009f01447edae921ab@lawmail.cosmolex.com
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] License Question

CAUTION: THIS IS AN EXTERNAL EMAIL

I haven’t read that the CILB won’t issue statements. It’s a statutory function, so I think if the petition is proper, the statement has to be issued. The CILB website doesn’t mention anything about not issuing statements.

Diane S. Perera, Esq.
Board Certified in Construction Law
Law Office of Diane S. Perera, P.A.
12150 SW 128 Ct., Suite 114
Miami, FL 33186
Office: 305-252-1388
Website: www.dpconstructionlaw.com http://www.dpconstructionlaw.com
Email: dperera@dpconstructionlaw.com mailto:dperera@dpconstructionlaw.com

CONFIDENTIAL: This e-mail and any Document(s) accompanying this transmittal contains information from the Law Office of Diane S. Perera, P.A., that is confidential and/or legally privileged. The information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or taking of any action in reliance upon the contents of this transmittal information is strictly prohibited and the document(s) should be returned to this firm immediately. If you have received this transmittal in error, please notify this firm immediately at (305) 252-1388 or by return e-mail.

Any correspondence between a firm attorney and a prospective client is not to be construed as the engagement of any attorney at The Law Office of Diane S. Perera P.A. for legal representation unless the representation is evidenced in a writing signed by both parties. The discussion of matters between a firm attorney and a prospective client for legal representation is protected by the client/attorney privilege as directed by the Rules Regulating The Florida Bar; 4-1.6.

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Thursday, March 2, 2023 1:28 PM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] License Question

I may be mistaken but I thought I read recently that going forward the CILB had decided it was no longer going to issue the Declaratory Statements.

Michael Gibbons
Shareholder
215 N. Eola Dr. | Orlando, FL 32801
D: 407.418.6378 | P: 407.843.4600 | Ext: 1378
Emailmailto:Michael.Gibbons@lowndes-law.com | Websitehttp://lowndes-law.com | Biohttp://lowndes-law.com/people-detail/client/Michael-Gibbons | vCardhttps://lowndeslaw.dpmlocal.com/admin/vcard/generate.php?id=64

[cid:image001.png@01D94D11.B68EB990]
LOCAL ROOTS. BROAD REACH. SM

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Thursday, March 2, 2023 1:18 PM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] License Question

CAUTION: THIS IS AN EXTERNAL EMAIL

Are you all finding that the CILB is willing to issue such declaratory statements or do they usually decline? I thought it was difficult to get them issue such decisions.

Kind regards,
Hardy

Hardy L. Roberts
Board Certified in Construction Law
[cid:image002.png@01D94D11.B68EB990]
712 S. Oregon Avenue
Tampa, Florida 33606
Direct: 813-345-5212 | Cell: 813-966-9511
hroberts@careyomalley.com mailto:hroberts@careyomalley.com

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Thursday, March 2, 2023 10:58 AM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Cc: 14f1fe0e681e47009f01447edae921ab@lawmail.cosmolex.com mailto:14f1fe0e681e47009f01447edae921ab@lawmail.cosmolex.com
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] License Question

I agree with Michael, but if the GC wants to be cautious and time permits, he/she can petition the CILB for a Declaratory Statement and obtain a response that is binding within the scope of his inquiry.

Diane S. Perera, Esq.
Board Certified in Construction Law
Law Office of Diane S. Perera, P.A.
12150 SW 128 Ct., Suite 114
Miami, FL 33186
Office: 305-252-1388
Website: www.dpconstructionlaw.com http://www.dpconstructionlaw.com
Email: dperera@dpconstructionlaw.com mailto:dperera@dpconstructionlaw.com

CONFIDENTIAL: This e-mail and any Document(s) accompanying this transmittal contains information from the Law Office of Diane S. Perera, P.A., that is confidential and/or legally privileged. The information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or taking of any action in reliance upon the contents of this transmittal information is strictly prohibited and the document(s) should be returned to this firm immediately. If you have received this transmittal in error, please notify this firm immediately at (305) 252-1388 or by return e-mail.

Any correspondence between a firm attorney and a prospective client is not to be construed as the engagement of any attorney at The Law Office of Diane S. Perera P.A. for legal representation unless the representation is evidenced in a writing signed by both parties. The discussion of matters between a firm attorney and a prospective client for legal representation is protected by the client/attorney privilege as directed by the Rules Regulating The Florida Bar; 4-1.6.

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Thursday, March 2, 2023 8:54 AM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] License Question

Here are some initial thoughts to kick off discussion on the always fun ch. 489 licensure questions:

It is not clear where the asphalt, curb and drain work is taking place. Assuming this scope is being performed as part of street or road construction, there would be no ch. 489 licensure issue due to the exemption from Part 1 of ch. 489 found at Fla. Stat. s. 489.103(1).
Assuming the work is taking place in a parking lot or location other than a road or street, it gets interesting:
Starting with the definitions found at Fla. Stat. s. 489.105, work on asphalt and curbs does not appear to expressly fall within any of the listed licensure descriptions applicable to Division II contractors under s. 489.105(3)(d)-(o). Assuming the reference to “drains” refers to stormwater drains, the work on drains appears to fall within the “storm sewer collection system” scope of work applicable to an underground utility and excavation contractor at Fla. Stat. s. 489.105(3)(n).
After working through the statutory definitions, the next relevant portion of ch. 489 appears to be Fla. Stat. s. 489.113. Under Fla. Stat. s. 489.113(2), an unlicensed subcontractor may work under the supervision of a licensed contractor under the following conditions: (i) the work is within the scope of the supervising contractor’s license, (ii) the supervising contractor is responsible for the work, and (iii) the unlicensed subcontractor being supervised is not performing work for which a contractor must be licensed as a Division II contractor under s. 489.105(3)(d)-(o).
Under Fla. Stat. s. 489.113(3)(d), a CGC may perform any of the services for which a license as an underground utility and excavation contractor is required. Accordingly, romanette (i) above is satisfied. Satisfying romanette (ii) above should not be a heavy lift assuming the CGC is on the site permit and is contracted to the Owner. The analysis of romanette (iii) above is tricky. On the one hand, stormwater collection system work such as storm drains appears to fall within the licensure scope of an underground utility contractor pursuant to 489.105(3)(n). On the other hand, stormwater collection system work may expressly be performed by a CGC and is not restricted to the Division II underground utility license. It comes down to whether work on drains and stormwater collection systems is work “that would require a license as a contractor under any of the categories listed in s. 489.105(3)(d)-(o)”. Since a CGC may lawfully perform such work, I would argue that drain work does not require a license under s. 489.105(3)(n) and accordingly romanette (iii) above is satisfied. This interpretation is bolstered by the text of s. 489.113(3) which lists various Division II scopes of work that a CGC must subcontract to a properly licensed Division II subcontractor. Missing from the list is the s. 489.105(3)(n) underground utility and excavation contractor scope.
In sum, I believe there is a credible argument that an unlicensed sub working under a CGC may perform the asphalt, curb and drain scopes under the supervision of the CGC without violating ch. 489.

Michael Gibbons
Shareholder
215 N. Eola Dr. | Orlando, FL 32801
D: 407.418.6378 | P: 407.843.4600 | Ext: 1378
Emailmailto:Michael.Gibbons@lowndes-law.com | Websitehttp://lowndes-law.com | Biohttp://lowndes-law.com/people-detail/client/Michael-Gibbons | vCardhttps://lowndeslaw.dpmlocal.com/admin/vcard/generate.php?id=64

[cid:image003.png@01D94D11.B68EB990]
LOCAL ROOTS. BROAD REACH. SM

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Wednesday, March 1, 2023 10:58 PM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: [CLC-Discussion] License Question

CAUTION: THIS IS AN EXTERNAL EMAIL

Evening all. I have a license question. If a sub, let’s say an unlicensed underground contractor doing curbs, drains, and asphalt, signs a subcontract with a licensed GC. Is that sub automatically “covered” by the GC’s license such that it does not need its own license to perform that work? If so, or if not, can someone point me to the statute, rule or regulation that requires that sub to have its own license? Thank you.

Regards,

Alex Barthet
Board Certified in Construction Law
TheLienZone Construction Law Bloghttps://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/AT73CJ6782h8OnqwippBDo/
Biographyhttps://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/IPOYCKr582hqK12WsnazH9/

The Barthet Firm
200 S. Biscayne Blvd., Suite 1650
Miami, Florida 33131
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[v4.30]

Notice of Confidentiality: This e-mail communication and the attachment(s) hereto, if any, are intended solely for the information and use of the addressee(s) identified above and may contain information which is legally privileged from disclosure and/or otherwise confidential. If a recipient of this e-mail communication is not an addressee (or an authorized representative of an addressee), such recipient is hereby advised that any review, disclosure, reproduction, re-transmission or other dissemination or use of this e-mail communication (or any information contained herein) is strictly prohibited. If you are not an addressee and have received this e-mail communication in error, please advise the sender of that circumstance either by reply e-mail or by telephone at (800) 356-6818, immediately delete this e-mail communication from any computer and destroy all physical copies of same.

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[v4.30]

Notice of Confidentiality: This e-mail communication and the attachment(s) hereto, if any, are intended solely for the information and use of the addressee(s) identified above and may contain information which is legally privileged from disclosure and/or otherwise confidential. If a recipient of this e-mail communication is not an addressee (or an authorized representative of an addressee), such recipient is hereby advised that any review, disclosure, reproduction, re-transmission or other dissemination or use of this e-mail communication (or any information contained herein) is strictly prohibited. If you are not an addressee and have received this e-mail communication in error, please advise the sender of that circumstance either by reply e-mail or by telephone at (800) 356-6818, immediately delete this e-mail communication from any computer and destroy all physical copies of same.

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[v4.30]

Antitrust law concerns???? Maybe Congress should stop enacting laws too for the same reason. Lee A. Weintraub Shareholder Board Certified in Construction Law Chair, Public Private Partnerships Practice Group Vice Chair, Construction Law and Litigation Practice Group Becker & Poliakoff 1 East Broward Blvd., Suite 1800 Ft. Lauderdale, FL 33301 954.985.4147 954.985.4176 lweintraub@beckerlawyers.com www.beckerlawyers.com Connect with me on LinkedIn Follow me on Twitter Follow Becker on... Confidentiality Note: This message, together with any attachments, may contain privileged and confidential information. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any examination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us by reply e-mail and permanently delete the original message, along with any attachments. Thank you. From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion Sent: Thursday, March 2, 2023 2:14 PM To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org Cc: 14f1fe0e681e47009f01447edae921ab@lawmail.cosmolex.com Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] License Question EXTERNAL EMAIL - This message originated from an External Source. The attached document from the CILB indicates that “The CILB is not expected to issue any further declaratory statements in light of antitrust law concerns”. This document was provided to me a few months ago by a contractor client. Michael Gibbons Shareholder 215 N. Eola Dr. | Orlando, FL 32801 D: 407.418.6378 | P: 407.843.4600 | Ext: 1378 Email<mailto:Michael.Gibbons@lowndes-law.com> | Website<http://lowndes-law.com> | Bio<lowndes-law.com/people-detail/client/Michael-Gibbons> | vCard<https://lowndeslaw.dpmlocal.com/admin/vcard/generate.php?id=64> [cid:image001.png@01D94D11.B68EB990] LOCAL ROOTS. BROAD REACH. SM From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org>> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion Sent: Thursday, March 2, 2023 1:48 PM To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org> Cc: 14f1fe0e681e47009f01447edae921ab@lawmail.cosmolex.com<mailto:14f1fe0e681e47009f01447edae921ab@lawmail.cosmolex.com> Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] License Question CAUTION: THIS IS AN EXTERNAL EMAIL I haven’t read that the CILB won’t issue statements. It’s a statutory function, so I think if the petition is proper, the statement has to be issued. The CILB website doesn’t mention anything about not issuing statements. Diane S. Perera, Esq. Board Certified in Construction Law Law Office of Diane S. Perera, P.A. 12150 SW 128 Ct., Suite 114 Miami, FL 33186 Office: 305-252-1388 Website: www.dpconstructionlaw.com<http://www.dpconstructionlaw.com> Email: dperera@dpconstructionlaw.com<mailto:dperera@dpconstructionlaw.com> CONFIDENTIAL: This e-mail and any Document(s) accompanying this transmittal contains information from the Law Office of Diane S. Perera, P.A., that is confidential and/or legally privileged. The information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or taking of any action in reliance upon the contents of this transmittal information is strictly prohibited and the document(s) should be returned to this firm immediately. If you have received this transmittal in error, please notify this firm immediately at (305) 252-1388 or by return e-mail. Any correspondence between a firm attorney and a prospective client is not to be construed as the engagement of any attorney at The Law Office of Diane S. Perera P.A. for legal representation unless the representation is evidenced in a writing signed by both parties. The discussion of matters between a firm attorney and a prospective client for legal representation is protected by the client/attorney privilege as directed by the Rules Regulating The Florida Bar; 4-1.6. From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org>> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion Sent: Thursday, March 2, 2023 1:28 PM To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org> Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] License Question I may be mistaken but I thought I read recently that going forward the CILB had decided it was no longer going to issue the Declaratory Statements. Michael Gibbons Shareholder 215 N. Eola Dr. | Orlando, FL 32801 D: 407.418.6378 | P: 407.843.4600 | Ext: 1378 Email<mailto:Michael.Gibbons@lowndes-law.com> | Website<http://lowndes-law.com> | Bio<http://lowndes-law.com/people-detail/client/Michael-Gibbons> | vCard<https://lowndeslaw.dpmlocal.com/admin/vcard/generate.php?id=64> [cid:image001.png@01D94D11.B68EB990] LOCAL ROOTS. BROAD REACH. SM From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org>> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion Sent: Thursday, March 2, 2023 1:18 PM To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org> Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] License Question CAUTION: THIS IS AN EXTERNAL EMAIL Are you all finding that the CILB is willing to issue such declaratory statements or do they usually decline? I thought it was difficult to get them issue such decisions. Kind regards, Hardy Hardy L. Roberts Board Certified in Construction Law [cid:image002.png@01D94D11.B68EB990] 712 S. Oregon Avenue Tampa, Florida 33606 Direct: 813-345-5212 | Cell: 813-966-9511 hroberts@careyomalley.com<mailto:hroberts@careyomalley.com> From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org>> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion Sent: Thursday, March 2, 2023 10:58 AM To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org> Cc: 14f1fe0e681e47009f01447edae921ab@lawmail.cosmolex.com<mailto:14f1fe0e681e47009f01447edae921ab@lawmail.cosmolex.com> Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] License Question I agree with Michael, but if the GC wants to be cautious and time permits, he/she can petition the CILB for a Declaratory Statement and obtain a response that is binding within the scope of his inquiry. Diane S. Perera, Esq. Board Certified in Construction Law Law Office of Diane S. Perera, P.A. 12150 SW 128 Ct., Suite 114 Miami, FL 33186 Office: 305-252-1388 Website: www.dpconstructionlaw.com<http://www.dpconstructionlaw.com> Email: dperera@dpconstructionlaw.com<mailto:dperera@dpconstructionlaw.com> CONFIDENTIAL: This e-mail and any Document(s) accompanying this transmittal contains information from the Law Office of Diane S. Perera, P.A., that is confidential and/or legally privileged. The information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or taking of any action in reliance upon the contents of this transmittal information is strictly prohibited and the document(s) should be returned to this firm immediately. If you have received this transmittal in error, please notify this firm immediately at (305) 252-1388 or by return e-mail. Any correspondence between a firm attorney and a prospective client is not to be construed as the engagement of any attorney at The Law Office of Diane S. Perera P.A. for legal representation unless the representation is evidenced in a writing signed by both parties. The discussion of matters between a firm attorney and a prospective client for legal representation is protected by the client/attorney privilege as directed by the Rules Regulating The Florida Bar; 4-1.6. From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org>> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion Sent: Thursday, March 2, 2023 8:54 AM To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org> Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] License Question Here are some initial thoughts to kick off discussion on the always fun ch. 489 licensure questions: 1. It is not clear where the asphalt, curb and drain work is taking place. Assuming this scope is being performed as part of street or road construction, there would be no ch. 489 licensure issue due to the exemption from Part 1 of ch. 489 found at Fla. Stat. s. 489.103(1). 1. Assuming the work is taking place in a parking lot or location other than a road or street, it gets interesting: 1. Starting with the definitions found at Fla. Stat. s. 489.105, work on asphalt and curbs does not appear to expressly fall within any of the listed licensure descriptions applicable to Division II contractors under s. 489.105(3)(d)-(o). Assuming the reference to “drains” refers to stormwater drains, the work on drains appears to fall within the “storm sewer collection system” scope of work applicable to an underground utility and excavation contractor at Fla. Stat. s. 489.105(3)(n). 1. After working through the statutory definitions, the next relevant portion of ch. 489 appears to be Fla. Stat. s. 489.113. Under Fla. Stat. s. 489.113(2), an unlicensed subcontractor may work under the supervision of a licensed contractor under the following conditions: (i) the work is within the scope of the supervising contractor’s license, (ii) the supervising contractor is responsible for the work, and (iii) the unlicensed subcontractor being supervised is not performing work for which a contractor must be licensed as a Division II contractor under s. 489.105(3)(d)-(o). 1. Under Fla. Stat. s. 489.113(3)(d), a CGC may perform any of the services for which a license as an underground utility and excavation contractor is required. Accordingly, romanette (i) above is satisfied. Satisfying romanette (ii) above should not be a heavy lift assuming the CGC is on the site permit and is contracted to the Owner. The analysis of romanette (iii) above is tricky. On the one hand, stormwater collection system work such as storm drains appears to fall within the licensure scope of an underground utility contractor pursuant to 489.105(3)(n). On the other hand, stormwater collection system work may expressly be performed by a CGC and is not restricted to the Division II underground utility license. It comes down to whether work on drains and stormwater collection systems is work “that would require a license as a contractor under any of the categories listed in s. 489.105(3)(d)-(o)”. Since a CGC may lawfully perform such work, I would argue that drain work does not require a license under s. 489.105(3)(n) and accordingly romanette (iii) above is satisfied. This interpretation is bolstered by the text of s. 489.113(3) which lists various Division II scopes of work that a CGC must subcontract to a properly licensed Division II subcontractor. Missing from the list is the s. 489.105(3)(n) underground utility and excavation contractor scope. 1. In sum, I believe there is a credible argument that an unlicensed sub working under a CGC may perform the asphalt, curb and drain scopes under the supervision of the CGC without violating ch. 489. Michael Gibbons Shareholder 215 N. Eola Dr. | Orlando, FL 32801 D: 407.418.6378 | P: 407.843.4600 | Ext: 1378 Email<mailto:Michael.Gibbons@lowndes-law.com> | Website<http://lowndes-law.com> | Bio<http://lowndes-law.com/people-detail/client/Michael-Gibbons> | vCard<https://lowndeslaw.dpmlocal.com/admin/vcard/generate.php?id=64> [cid:image003.png@01D94D11.B68EB990] LOCAL ROOTS. BROAD REACH. SM From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org>> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion Sent: Wednesday, March 1, 2023 10:58 PM To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org> Subject: [CLC-Discussion] License Question CAUTION: THIS IS AN EXTERNAL EMAIL Evening all. I have a license question. If a sub, let’s say an unlicensed underground contractor doing curbs, drains, and asphalt, signs a subcontract with a licensed GC. Is that sub automatically “covered” by the GC’s license such that it does not need its own license to perform that work? If so, or if not, can someone point me to the statute, rule or regulation that requires that sub to have its own license? Thank you. Regards, Alex Barthet Board Certified in Construction Law TheLienZone Construction Law Blog<https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/AT73CJ6782h8OnqwippBDo/> Biography<https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/IPOYCKr582hqK12WsnazH9/> The Barthet Firm 200 S. Biscayne Blvd., Suite 1650 Miami, Florida 33131 305-347-5295 (direct line) alex@barthet.com<mailto:alex@barthet.com> www.barthet.com<https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/jTP8CM85Z2T5PJq3IR5lX8/> This electronic communication may contain privileged, confidential, or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of the intended recipient, please delete this communication and notify the sender. Thank you. Notice of Confidentiality: This e-mail communication and the attachment(s) hereto, if any, are intended solely for the information and use of the addressee(s) identified above and may contain information which is legally privileged from disclosure and/or otherwise confidential. If a recipient of this e-mail communication is not an addressee (or an authorized representative of an addressee), such recipient is hereby advised that any review, disclosure, reproduction, re-transmission or other dissemination or use of this e-mail communication (or any information contained herein) is strictly prohibited. If you are not an addressee and have received this e-mail communication in error, please advise the sender of that circumstance either by reply e-mail or by telephone at (800) 356-6818, immediately delete this e-mail communication from any computer and destroy all physical copies of same. Replies Filtered: Any incoming reply to this e-mail communication or other e-mail communication to us will be electronically filtered for "spam" and/or "viruses." That filtering process may result in such reply or other e-mail communications to us being quarantined (i.e., potentially not received at our site at all) and/or delayed in reaching us. For that reason, we cannot guarantee that we will receive your reply or other e-mail communications to us and/or that we will receive the same in a timely manner. Accordingly, you should consider sending communications to us which are particularly important or time-sensitive by means other than e-mail. [v4.30] Notice of Confidentiality: This e-mail communication and the attachment(s) hereto, if any, are intended solely for the information and use of the addressee(s) identified above and may contain information which is legally privileged from disclosure and/or otherwise confidential. If a recipient of this e-mail communication is not an addressee (or an authorized representative of an addressee), such recipient is hereby advised that any review, disclosure, reproduction, re-transmission or other dissemination or use of this e-mail communication (or any information contained herein) is strictly prohibited. If you are not an addressee and have received this e-mail communication in error, please advise the sender of that circumstance either by reply e-mail or by telephone at (800) 356-6818, immediately delete this e-mail communication from any computer and destroy all physical copies of same. Replies Filtered: Any incoming reply to this e-mail communication or other e-mail communication to us will be electronically filtered for "spam" and/or "viruses." That filtering process may result in such reply or other e-mail communications to us being quarantined (i.e., potentially not received at our site at all) and/or delayed in reaching us. For that reason, we cannot guarantee that we will receive your reply or other e-mail communications to us and/or that we will receive the same in a timely manner. Accordingly, you should consider sending communications to us which are particularly important or time-sensitive by means other than e-mail. [v4.30] Notice of Confidentiality: This e-mail communication and the attachment(s) hereto, if any, are intended solely for the information and use of the addressee(s) identified above and may contain information which is legally privileged from disclosure and/or otherwise confidential. If a recipient of this e-mail communication is not an addressee (or an authorized representative of an addressee), such recipient is hereby advised that any review, disclosure, reproduction, re-transmission or other dissemination or use of this e-mail communication (or any information contained herein) is strictly prohibited. If you are not an addressee and have received this e-mail communication in error, please advise the sender of that circumstance either by reply e-mail or by telephone at (800) 356-6818, immediately delete this e-mail communication from any computer and destroy all physical copies of same. Replies Filtered: Any incoming reply to this e-mail communication or other e-mail communication to us will be electronically filtered for "spam" and/or "viruses." That filtering process may result in such reply or other e-mail communications to us being quarantined (i.e., potentially not received at our site at all) and/or delayed in reaching us. For that reason, we cannot guarantee that we will receive your reply or other e-mail communications to us and/or that we will receive the same in a timely manner. Accordingly, you should consider sending communications to us which are particularly important or time-sensitive by means other than e-mail. [v4.30]