Empathy List Archives

HH

Harry Heist

Mon, Jun 29, 2020 8:48 PM

Here are 2 more spreading fast.

Please take the time to read this when you can as it is becoming very
common.

 Tenant is not required to pay a Security Deposit and they are given

an optional "method". Tenant pays a set FEE to the Property magager, more
or less than 1/12 of what would have been the deposit each month as a
NONREFUNDABLE FEE and even continues this upon renewals!! Property manager
guarantees the property owner an amount equal to what the deposit would have
normally been if the tenant damages the place or owes rent (from property
manager's pocket) and sometimes even an additional month of rent if the
tenant defaults. Property manager pockets the money each month as a FEE.
Owner is not even aware of the scheme.

No damages, property manager makes out like a bandit. Is this legal??? The
tenant is paying for the privilege/convenience of not having to pay a
security deposit BUT is not using a licensed product.

THIS IS A FORM OF INSURANCE IS IT NOT? The tenant though is not being
"insured", but the owner is and the property manager is pocketing a large
sum of money.

This particular scheme preys on people who do not have a security deposit to
pay.

The property manager is arguing with me that this is NOT insurance as the
OWNER is not paying the "premium".

In this situation, a tenant actually could end up paying far more in
nonrefundable FEES than if he had paid a normal security deposit and people
are eating this up!

Next one:

Property manager charges a pet fee or pet rent to tenant. Property

manager pockets this pet fee or pet rent. If there is pet damage, property
manager will pay up to $XXX for pet damage. THIS IS CLEARLY AN INSURANCE
PRODUCT IS IT NOT? No pet damage, property manager makes out like a
bandit. Pet damage? Property manager has a limit as to what they will
cover.

I am trying to explain why both of these could be insurance, violate the
security deposit statute, illegal or an unfair and deceptive trade practice
but can't seem to wrap my head around exactly why.

Now, there ARE licensed insurance companies that provide this type of
service. Obligo, Rhino, Leaselock and SureDeposit are but a few.

THESE above are all done in house and are a HUGE profit center now for some
property managers and cost far more than the licensed products.

Any real expects out there before some huge class actions start?

I am willing to pay for solid advice.

Trust me on this. Your single family home managers are beginning to do it
and it is increasing their profits dramatically.

The whole fiduciary duty thing is also disturbing. If a property manager
has a choice between accepting a tenant who will pay the standard security
deposit OR one who wants to pay a nonrefundable FEE each month to the
property manager, who are they going to pick?

Harry

LAW OFFICES OF
HEIST, WEISSE & WOLK P.A.
PH: 1 800 253 8428
FAX: 1 800 367 9038
"Serving the Property Management Professional"
Website: http://www.evict.com/ www.evict.com
Email: mailto:harry@evict.com harry@evict.com

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Heist-Weisse-Wolk-PA/343965575625870

Visit us on Facebook

THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS CONFIDENTIAL, ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGED, AND
INTENDED FOR THE PERSONS NAMED ABOVE ONLY. ALL OTHER USE, COPYING, OR
DISTRIBUTION IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED.

Here are 2 more spreading fast. Please take the time to read this when you can as it is becoming very common. 1. Tenant is not required to pay a Security Deposit and they are given an optional "method". Tenant pays a set FEE to the Property magager, more or less than 1/12 of what would have been the deposit each month as a NONREFUNDABLE FEE and even continues this upon renewals!! Property manager guarantees the property owner an amount equal to what the deposit would have normally been if the tenant damages the place or owes rent (from property manager's pocket) and sometimes even an additional month of rent if the tenant defaults. Property manager pockets the money each month as a FEE. Owner is not even aware of the scheme. No damages, property manager makes out like a bandit. Is this legal??? The tenant is paying for the privilege/convenience of not having to pay a security deposit BUT is not using a licensed product. THIS IS A FORM OF INSURANCE IS IT NOT? The tenant though is not being "insured", but the owner is and the property manager is pocketing a large sum of money. This particular scheme preys on people who do not have a security deposit to pay. The property manager is arguing with me that this is NOT insurance as the OWNER is not paying the "premium". In this situation, a tenant actually could end up paying far more in nonrefundable FEES than if he had paid a normal security deposit and people are eating this up! Next one: 2. Property manager charges a pet fee or pet rent to tenant. Property manager pockets this pet fee or pet rent. If there is pet damage, property manager will pay up to $XXX for pet damage. THIS IS CLEARLY AN INSURANCE PRODUCT IS IT NOT? No pet damage, property manager makes out like a bandit. Pet damage? Property manager has a limit as to what they will cover. I am trying to explain why both of these could be insurance, violate the security deposit statute, illegal or an unfair and deceptive trade practice but can't seem to wrap my head around exactly why. Now, there ARE licensed insurance companies that provide this type of service. Obligo, Rhino, Leaselock and SureDeposit are but a few. THESE above are all done in house and are a HUGE profit center now for some property managers and cost far more than the licensed products. Any real expects out there before some huge class actions start? I am willing to pay for solid advice. Trust me on this. Your single family home managers are beginning to do it and it is increasing their profits dramatically. The whole fiduciary duty thing is also disturbing. If a property manager has a choice between accepting a tenant who will pay the standard security deposit OR one who wants to pay a nonrefundable FEE each month to the property manager, who are they going to pick? Harry LAW OFFICES OF HEIST, WEISSE & WOLK P.A. PH: 1 800 253 8428 FAX: 1 800 367 9038 "Serving the Property Management Professional" Website: <http://www.evict.com/> www.evict.com Email: <mailto:harry@evict.com> harry@evict.com <https://www.facebook.com/pages/Heist-Weisse-Wolk-PA/343965575625870> Visit us on Facebook THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS CONFIDENTIAL, ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGED, AND INTENDED FOR THE PERSONS NAMED ABOVE ONLY. ALL OTHER USE, COPYING, OR DISTRIBUTION IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED.

LC

Leonard Cabral

Mon, Jun 29, 2020 11:10 PM

Hi Harry.
All property manages must be licensed realtors. My first impression is that it must violate the real estate licensing statute.
Leonard P. Cabral, Esq.

Sent from Mailhttps://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986 for Windows 10

From: Harry Heistmailto:harry@evict.com
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2020 4:51 PM
To: 'RPPTL Landlord Tenant Committee'mailto:landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org; 'RPPTL Landlord Tennant Committee'mailto:landtencl@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: [RPPTL LandTen] Consumer Lawyer/Insurance regulation lawyer question

Here are 2 more spreading fast.

Please take the time to read this when you can as it is becoming very common.

Tenant is not required to pay a Security Deposit and they are given an optional “method”. Tenant pays a set FEE to the Property magager, more or less than 1/12 of what would have been the deposit each month as a NONREFUNDABLE FEE and even continues this upon renewals!! Property manager guarantees the property owner an amount equal to what the deposit would have normally been if the tenant damages the place or owes rent (from property manager’s pocket) and sometimes even an additional month of rent if the tenant defaults. Property manager pockets the money each month as a FEE. Owner is not even aware of the scheme.

No damages, property manager makes out like a bandit. Is this legal??? The tenant is paying for the privilege/convenience of not having to pay a security deposit BUT is not using a licensed product.

THIS IS A FORM OF INSURANCE IS IT NOT? The tenant though is not being “insured”, but the owner is and the property manager is pocketing a large sum of money.
This particular scheme preys on people who do not have a security deposit to pay.

The property manager is arguing with me that this is NOT insurance as the OWNER is not paying the “premium”.

In this situation, a tenant actually could end up paying far more in nonrefundable FEES than if he had paid a normal security deposit and people are eating this up!

Next one:

Property manager charges a pet fee or pet rent to tenant. Property manager pockets this pet fee or pet rent. If there is pet damage, property manager will pay up to $XXX for pet damage. THIS IS CLEARLY AN INSURANCE PRODUCT IS IT NOT? No pet damage, property manager makes out like a bandit. Pet damage? Property manager has a limit as to what they will cover.

I am trying to explain why both of these could be insurance, violate the security deposit statute, illegal or an unfair and deceptive trade practice but can’t seem to wrap my head around exactly why.

Now, there ARE licensed insurance companies that provide this type of service. Obligo, Rhino, Leaselock and SureDeposit are but a few.

THESE above are all done in house and are a HUGE profit center now for some property managers and cost far more than the licensed products.

Any real expects out there before some huge class actions start?

I am willing to pay for solid advice.

Trust me on this. Your single family home managers are beginning to do it and it is increasing their profits dramatically.

The whole fiduciary duty thing is also disturbing. If a property manager has a choice between accepting a tenant who will pay the standard security deposit OR one who wants to pay a nonrefundable FEE each month to the property manager, who are they going to pick?

Harry

LAW OFFICES OF
HEIST, WEISSE & WOLK P.A.
PH: 1 800 253 8428
FAX: 1 800 367 9038
"Serving the Property Management Professional"
Website: www.evict.com http://www.evict.com/
Email: harry@evict.com mailto:harry@evict.com
[cid:image001.png@01D64E35.256ECD20]https://www.facebook.com/pages/Heist-Weisse-Wolk-PA/343965575625870

Visit us on Facebook

THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS CONFIDENTIAL, ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGED, AND INTENDED FOR THE PERSONS NAMED ABOVE ONLY. ALL OTHER USE, COPYING, OR DISTRIBUTION IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED.

Hi Harry. All property manages must be licensed realtors. My first impression is that it must violate the real estate licensing statute. Leonard P. Cabral, Esq. Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10 From: Harry Heist<mailto:harry@evict.com> Sent: Monday, June 29, 2020 4:51 PM To: 'RPPTL Landlord Tenant Committee'<mailto:landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org>; 'RPPTL Landlord Tennant Committee'<mailto:landtencl@lists.flabarrpptl.org> Subject: [RPPTL LandTen] Consumer Lawyer/Insurance regulation lawyer question Here are 2 more spreading fast. Please take the time to read this when you can as it is becoming very common. 1. Tenant is not required to pay a Security Deposit and they are given an optional “method”. Tenant pays a set FEE to the Property magager, more or less than 1/12 of what would have been the deposit each month as a NONREFUNDABLE FEE and even continues this upon renewals!! Property manager guarantees the property owner an amount equal to what the deposit would have normally been if the tenant damages the place or owes rent (from property manager’s pocket) and sometimes even an additional month of rent if the tenant defaults. Property manager pockets the money each month as a FEE. Owner is not even aware of the scheme. No damages, property manager makes out like a bandit. Is this legal??? The tenant is paying for the privilege/convenience of not having to pay a security deposit BUT is not using a licensed product. THIS IS A FORM OF INSURANCE IS IT NOT? The tenant though is not being “insured”, but the owner is and the property manager is pocketing a large sum of money. This particular scheme preys on people who do not have a security deposit to pay. The property manager is arguing with me that this is NOT insurance as the OWNER is not paying the “premium”. In this situation, a tenant actually could end up paying far more in nonrefundable FEES than if he had paid a normal security deposit and people are eating this up! Next one: 1. Property manager charges a pet fee or pet rent to tenant. Property manager pockets this pet fee or pet rent. If there is pet damage, property manager will pay up to $XXX for pet damage. THIS IS CLEARLY AN INSURANCE PRODUCT IS IT NOT? No pet damage, property manager makes out like a bandit. Pet damage? Property manager has a limit as to what they will cover. I am trying to explain why both of these could be insurance, violate the security deposit statute, illegal or an unfair and deceptive trade practice but can’t seem to wrap my head around exactly why. Now, there ARE licensed insurance companies that provide this type of service. Obligo, Rhino, Leaselock and SureDeposit are but a few. THESE above are all done in house and are a HUGE profit center now for some property managers and cost far more than the licensed products. Any real expects out there before some huge class actions start? I am willing to pay for solid advice. Trust me on this. Your single family home managers are beginning to do it and it is increasing their profits dramatically. The whole fiduciary duty thing is also disturbing. If a property manager has a choice between accepting a tenant who will pay the standard security deposit OR one who wants to pay a nonrefundable FEE each month to the property manager, who are they going to pick? Harry LAW OFFICES OF HEIST, WEISSE & WOLK P.A. PH: 1 800 253 8428 FAX: 1 800 367 9038 "Serving the Property Management Professional" Website: www.evict.com<http://www.evict.com/> Email: harry@evict.com<mailto:harry@evict.com> [cid:image001.png@01D64E35.256ECD20]<https://www.facebook.com/pages/Heist-Weisse-Wolk-PA/343965575625870> Visit us on Facebook THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS CONFIDENTIAL, ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGED, AND INTENDED FOR THE PERSONS NAMED ABOVE ONLY. ALL OTHER USE, COPYING, OR DISTRIBUTION IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED.

HH

Harry Heist

Tue, Jun 30, 2020 12:09 AM

Leonard,

They are licensed brokers or sales people working for brokers. At least the
ones I work for.

I did not know there was a consumer listserv.

I need to get to the bottom of this as I am being asked where my "proof" of
illegality is and can't definitively point to something.

I called the Florida Department of insurance Regulation a while back and
they made one thing clear.

If you charge the owner a fee and guaranty that you will pay for lost rent
or pet damage for example, this is CLEAR. This is INSURANCE.

So they are coming up with novel ways of doing it like charging a higher
monthly commission and covering it. They create "packages" of things based
upon different percentages they will charge the owner so it is not blatant.

They now have things like a 'RESIDENT BENEFIT PACKAGE" or an "OWNERS BENEFIT
PACKAGE" where all of this is hidden.

In the situations I described, it gets more complex, for example they are
charging the tenant and then guaranteeing a payment to the owner in the
event of damage or rent default.

This business of charging a fee to the tenant and then "covering" the
deposit or damages up to a certain amount is the same thing as insurance
BUT, they are claiming that since the OWNER does not pay, it is not
insurance per se.

They also like to say that they are "guaranteeing the rent/damages" and that
"guaranteeing" is NOT the same as "insurance".

I just don't get how this could be legal or even fair to a tenant by taking
advantage of them not having a full deposit, charging them a nonrefundable
FEE that they WILL pay each month and this actually often amounts to a
significant amount of money. It exceeds the traditional security deposit and
the tenant does not even get it back!!!!!!!

I tell them that if the tenant wants to use the security deposit substitute
products I mentioned, or the rent guaranty products to owners, like Sure
Deposit, Rhino, Obligo, Steady etc this is most likely legal but even then,
SureDeposit was involved in major class action litigation in another state.
These are licensed insurance products.

https://www.suredeposit.com/Public/default.aspx ,
https://www.steadymarketplace.com/ https://leaselock.com/
https://myobligo.com/ https://surevestor.com/

The problem I see, is that some are doing this all in house and it just does
not pass the smell test. Insurance is insurance.

It is becoming a real battle as they all are in associations, they all are
on social media and there is a herd mentality of "he/she does it so it must
be legal"

There is a movement in the property management business to lower the monthly
percentage they charge but then get the owner and the tenant with all kinds
of FEES. None of these fees are illegal per the landlord/tenant law but as
we saw in Yates v. Equity, which few people even were around for that case
said if it ain't specifically allowed in the act, it is illegal.

Few people know that forfeiture of a security deposit or a liquidated damage
for lease break was made illegal by Yates v. Equity and then we got it put
in the statute so we CAN do it legally.

Many companies in Florida paid out millions back in 2005 - 2009. Very few
people know how radically the statute was changed.

Everyone needs to read that decision and understand how the law was changes
after it.

Babbitt Johnson Osborne And Le Clainche PA most likely made millions back
then off of all the cases.

I am very concerned that my clients are going to get nailed and I need to
properly advise them.

If anyone knows a real hard core consumer protection/debtor's rights lawyer,
I want to hire them to get a written opinion.

Harry

LAW OFFICES OF
HEIST, WEISSE & WOLK P.A.
PH: 1 800 253 8428
FAX: 1 800 367 9038
"Serving the Property Management Professional"
Website: http://www.evict.com/ www.evict.com
Email: mailto:harry@evict.com harry@evict.com

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Heist-Weisse-Wolk-PA/343965575625870

Visit us on Facebook

THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS CONFIDENTIAL, ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGED, AND
INTENDED FOR THE PERSONS NAMED ABOVE ONLY. ALL OTHER USE, COPYING, OR
DISTRIBUTION IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED.

From: landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org
[mailto:landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Leonard Cabral
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2020 7:10 PM
To: RPPTL Landlord Tenant Committee
Subject: Re: [RPPTL LandTen] Consumer Lawyer/Insurance regulation lawyer
question

Hi Harry.

All property manages must be licensed realtors. My first impression is that
it must violate the real estate licensing statute.

Leonard P. Cabral, Esq.

Sent from Mail https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986 for Windows
10

From: Harry Heist mailto:harry@evict.com
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2020 4:51 PM
To: 'RPPTL Landlord Tenant Committee' mailto:landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org
; 'RPPTL Landlord Tennant Committee'
mailto:landtencl@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: [RPPTL LandTen] Consumer Lawyer/Insurance regulation lawyer
question

Here are 2 more spreading fast.

Please take the time to read this when you can as it is becoming very
common.

 Tenant is not required to pay a Security Deposit and they are given

an optional "method". Tenant pays a set FEE to the Property magager, more
or less than 1/12 of what would have been the deposit each month as a
NONREFUNDABLE FEE and even continues this upon renewals!! Property manager
guarantees the property owner an amount equal to what the deposit would have
normally been if the tenant damages the place or owes rent (from property
manager's pocket) and sometimes even an additional month of rent if the
tenant defaults. Property manager pockets the money each month as a FEE.
Owner is not even aware of the scheme.

No damages, property manager makes out like a bandit. Is this legal??? The
tenant is paying for the privilege/convenience of not having to pay a
security deposit BUT is not using a licensed product.

THIS IS A FORM OF INSURANCE IS IT NOT? The tenant though is not being
"insured", but the owner is and the property manager is pocketing a large
sum of money.

This particular scheme preys on people who do not have a security deposit to
pay.

The property manager is arguing with me that this is NOT insurance as the
OWNER is not paying the "premium".

In this situation, a tenant actually could end up paying far more in
nonrefundable FEES than if he had paid a normal security deposit and people
are eating this up!

Next one:

Property manager charges a pet fee or pet rent to tenant. Property

manager pockets this pet fee or pet rent. If there is pet damage, property
manager will pay up to $XXX for pet damage. THIS IS CLEARLY AN INSURANCE
PRODUCT IS IT NOT? No pet damage, property manager makes out like a
bandit. Pet damage? Property manager has a limit as to what they will
cover.

I am trying to explain why both of these could be insurance, violate the
security deposit statute, illegal or an unfair and deceptive trade practice
but can't seem to wrap my head around exactly why.

Now, there ARE licensed insurance companies that provide this type of
service. Obligo, Rhino, Leaselock and SureDeposit are but a few.

THESE above are all done in house and are a HUGE profit center now for some
property managers and cost far more than the licensed products.

Any real expects out there before some huge class actions start?

I am willing to pay for solid advice.

Trust me on this. Your single family home managers are beginning to do it
and it is increasing their profits dramatically.

The whole fiduciary duty thing is also disturbing. If a property manager
has a choice between accepting a tenant who will pay the standard security
deposit OR one who wants to pay a nonrefundable FEE each month to the
property manager, who are they going to pick?

Harry

LAW OFFICES OF
HEIST, WEISSE & WOLK P.A.
PH: 1 800 253 8428
FAX: 1 800 367 9038
"Serving the Property Management Professional"
Website: http://www.evict.com/ www.evict.com
Email: mailto:harry@evict.com harry@evict.com

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Heist-Weisse-Wolk-PA/343965575625870

Visit us on Facebook

THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS CONFIDENTIAL, ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGED, AND
INTENDED FOR THE PERSONS NAMED ABOVE ONLY. ALL OTHER USE, COPYING, OR
DISTRIBUTION IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED.

Leonard, They are licensed brokers or sales people working for brokers. At least the ones I work for. I did not know there was a consumer listserv. I need to get to the bottom of this as I am being asked where my "proof" of illegality is and can't definitively point to something. I called the Florida Department of insurance Regulation a while back and they made one thing clear. If you charge the owner a fee and guaranty that you will pay for lost rent or pet damage for example, this is CLEAR. This is INSURANCE. So they are coming up with novel ways of doing it like charging a higher monthly commission and covering it. They create "packages" of things based upon different percentages they will charge the owner so it is not blatant. They now have things like a 'RESIDENT BENEFIT PACKAGE" or an "OWNERS BENEFIT PACKAGE" where all of this is hidden. In the situations I described, it gets more complex, for example they are charging the tenant and then guaranteeing a payment to the owner in the event of damage or rent default. This business of charging a fee to the tenant and then "covering" the deposit or damages up to a certain amount is the same thing as insurance BUT, they are claiming that since the OWNER does not pay, it is not insurance per se. They also like to say that they are "guaranteeing the rent/damages" and that "guaranteeing" is NOT the same as "insurance". I just don't get how this could be legal or even fair to a tenant by taking advantage of them not having a full deposit, charging them a nonrefundable FEE that they WILL pay each month and this actually often amounts to a significant amount of money. It exceeds the traditional security deposit and the tenant does not even get it back!!!!!!! I tell them that if the tenant wants to use the security deposit substitute products I mentioned, or the rent guaranty products to owners, like Sure Deposit, Rhino, Obligo, Steady etc this is most likely legal but even then, SureDeposit was involved in major class action litigation in another state. These are licensed insurance products. https://www.suredeposit.com/Public/default.aspx , https://www.steadymarketplace.com/ https://leaselock.com/ https://myobligo.com/ https://surevestor.com/ The problem I see, is that some are doing this all in house and it just does not pass the smell test. Insurance is insurance. It is becoming a real battle as they all are in associations, they all are on social media and there is a herd mentality of "he/she does it so it must be legal" There is a movement in the property management business to lower the monthly percentage they charge but then get the owner and the tenant with all kinds of FEES. None of these fees are illegal per the landlord/tenant law but as we saw in Yates v. Equity, which few people even were around for that case said if it ain't specifically allowed in the act, it is illegal. Few people know that forfeiture of a security deposit or a liquidated damage for lease break was made illegal by Yates v. Equity and then we got it put in the statute so we CAN do it legally. Many companies in Florida paid out millions back in 2005 - 2009. Very few people know how radically the statute was changed. Everyone needs to read that decision and understand how the law was changes after it. Babbitt Johnson Osborne And Le Clainche PA most likely made millions back then off of all the cases. I am very concerned that my clients are going to get nailed and I need to properly advise them. If anyone knows a real hard core consumer protection/debtor's rights lawyer, I want to hire them to get a written opinion. Harry LAW OFFICES OF HEIST, WEISSE & WOLK P.A. PH: 1 800 253 8428 FAX: 1 800 367 9038 "Serving the Property Management Professional" Website: <http://www.evict.com/> www.evict.com Email: <mailto:harry@evict.com> harry@evict.com <https://www.facebook.com/pages/Heist-Weisse-Wolk-PA/343965575625870> Visit us on Facebook THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS CONFIDENTIAL, ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGED, AND INTENDED FOR THE PERSONS NAMED ABOVE ONLY. ALL OTHER USE, COPYING, OR DISTRIBUTION IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. From: landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Leonard Cabral Sent: Monday, June 29, 2020 7:10 PM To: RPPTL Landlord Tenant Committee Subject: Re: [RPPTL LandTen] Consumer Lawyer/Insurance regulation lawyer question Hi Harry. All property manages must be licensed realtors. My first impression is that it must violate the real estate licensing statute. Leonard P. Cabral, Esq. Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10 From: Harry Heist <mailto:harry@evict.com> Sent: Monday, June 29, 2020 4:51 PM To: 'RPPTL Landlord Tenant Committee' <mailto:landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org> ; 'RPPTL Landlord Tennant Committee' <mailto:landtencl@lists.flabarrpptl.org> Subject: [RPPTL LandTen] Consumer Lawyer/Insurance regulation lawyer question Here are 2 more spreading fast. Please take the time to read this when you can as it is becoming very common. 1. Tenant is not required to pay a Security Deposit and they are given an optional "method". Tenant pays a set FEE to the Property magager, more or less than 1/12 of what would have been the deposit each month as a NONREFUNDABLE FEE and even continues this upon renewals!! Property manager guarantees the property owner an amount equal to what the deposit would have normally been if the tenant damages the place or owes rent (from property manager's pocket) and sometimes even an additional month of rent if the tenant defaults. Property manager pockets the money each month as a FEE. Owner is not even aware of the scheme. No damages, property manager makes out like a bandit. Is this legal??? The tenant is paying for the privilege/convenience of not having to pay a security deposit BUT is not using a licensed product. THIS IS A FORM OF INSURANCE IS IT NOT? The tenant though is not being "insured", but the owner is and the property manager is pocketing a large sum of money. This particular scheme preys on people who do not have a security deposit to pay. The property manager is arguing with me that this is NOT insurance as the OWNER is not paying the "premium". In this situation, a tenant actually could end up paying far more in nonrefundable FEES than if he had paid a normal security deposit and people are eating this up! Next one: 2. Property manager charges a pet fee or pet rent to tenant. Property manager pockets this pet fee or pet rent. If there is pet damage, property manager will pay up to $XXX for pet damage. THIS IS CLEARLY AN INSURANCE PRODUCT IS IT NOT? No pet damage, property manager makes out like a bandit. Pet damage? Property manager has a limit as to what they will cover. I am trying to explain why both of these could be insurance, violate the security deposit statute, illegal or an unfair and deceptive trade practice but can't seem to wrap my head around exactly why. Now, there ARE licensed insurance companies that provide this type of service. Obligo, Rhino, Leaselock and SureDeposit are but a few. THESE above are all done in house and are a HUGE profit center now for some property managers and cost far more than the licensed products. Any real expects out there before some huge class actions start? I am willing to pay for solid advice. Trust me on this. Your single family home managers are beginning to do it and it is increasing their profits dramatically. The whole fiduciary duty thing is also disturbing. If a property manager has a choice between accepting a tenant who will pay the standard security deposit OR one who wants to pay a nonrefundable FEE each month to the property manager, who are they going to pick? Harry LAW OFFICES OF HEIST, WEISSE & WOLK P.A. PH: 1 800 253 8428 FAX: 1 800 367 9038 "Serving the Property Management Professional" Website: <http://www.evict.com/> www.evict.com Email: <mailto:harry@evict.com> harry@evict.com <https://www.facebook.com/pages/Heist-Weisse-Wolk-PA/343965575625870> Visit us on Facebook THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS CONFIDENTIAL, ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGED, AND INTENDED FOR THE PERSONS NAMED ABOVE ONLY. ALL OTHER USE, COPYING, OR DISTRIBUTION IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED.

LC

Leonard Cabral

Tue, Jun 30, 2020 12:28 AM

I belong to the National Association of Consumer Advocates https://www.consumeradvocates.org/ They are very hardcore consumer lawyers. The best in the country. Contact them. Someone there can help. If you have trouble contacting them let me know. I have some personal contact information that I cannot share.
To complete my bucket list, I am working on filing a class action suit against landlord that will be as big as Yates. I don’t think there is much more for me to complete as a lawyer.
The landlords need to be reigned in. It is ridiculous what they are getting away with. There are very few of us let that will fight unfairness in Landlord and Tenant law. If I were 30 years younger I would be dangerous. Right now I have to worry about the wife who is back in the hospital.

Leonard

Sent from Mailhttps://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986 for Windows 10

From: Harry Heistmailto:harry@evict.com
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2020 8:12 PM
To: 'RPPTL Landlord Tenant Committee'mailto:landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [RPPTL LandTen] Consumer Lawyer/Insurance regulation lawyer question

Leonard,

They are licensed brokers or sales people working for brokers. At least the ones I work for.

I did not know there was a consumer listserv.

I need to get to the bottom of this as I am being asked where my “proof” of illegality is and can’t definitively point to something.

I called the Florida Department of insurance Regulation a while back and they made one thing clear.

If you charge the owner a fee and guaranty that you will pay for lost rent or pet damage for example, this is CLEAR. This is INSURANCE.

So they are coming up with novel ways of doing it like charging a higher monthly commission and covering it. They create “packages” of things based upon different percentages they will charge the owner so it is not blatant.

They now have things like a ‘RESIDENT BENEFIT PACKAGE” or an “OWNERS BENEFIT PACKAGE” where all of this is hidden.

In the situations I described, it gets more complex, for example they are charging the tenant and then guaranteeing a payment to the owner in the event of damage or rent default.

This business of charging a fee to the tenant and then “covering” the deposit or damages up to a certain amount is the same thing as insurance BUT, they are claiming that since the OWNER does not pay, it is not insurance per se.

They also like to say that they are “guaranteeing the rent/damages” and that “guaranteeing” is NOT the same as “insurance”.

I just don’t get how this could be legal or even fair to a tenant by taking advantage of them not having a full deposit, charging them a nonrefundable FEE that they WILL pay each month and this actually often amounts to a significant amount of money. It exceeds the traditional security deposit and the tenant does not even get it back!!!!!!!

I tell them that if the tenant wants to use the security deposit substitute products I mentioned, or the rent guaranty products to owners, like Sure Deposit, Rhino, Obligo, Steady etc this is most likely legal but even then, SureDeposit was involved in major class action litigation in another state. These are licensed insurance products.
https://www.suredeposit.com/Public/default.aspx , https://www.steadymarketplace.com/ https://leaselock.com/ https://myobligo.com/ https://surevestor.com/

The problem I see, is that some are doing this all in house and it just does not pass the smell test. Insurance is insurance.

It is becoming a real battle as they all are in associations, they all are on social media and there is a herd mentality of “he/she does it so it must be legal”

There is a movement in the property management business to lower the monthly percentage they charge but then get the owner and the tenant with all kinds of FEES. None of these fees are illegal per the landlord/tenant law but as we saw in Yates v. Equity, which few people even were around for that case said if it ain’t specifically allowed in the act, it is illegal.

Few people know that forfeiture of a security deposit or a liquidated damage for lease break was made illegal by Yates v. Equity and then we got it put in the statute so we CAN do it legally.

Many companies in Florida paid out millions back in 2005 – 2009. Very few people know how radically the statute was changed.

Everyone needs to read that decision and understand how the law was changes after it.

Babbitt Johnson Osborne And Le Clainche PA most likely made millions back then off of all the cases.

I am very concerned that my clients are going to get nailed and I need to properly advise them.

If anyone knows a real hard core consumer protection/debtor’s rights lawyer, I want to hire them to get a written opinion.

Harry

LAW OFFICES OF
HEIST, WEISSE & WOLK P.A.
PH: 1 800 253 8428
FAX: 1 800 367 9038
"Serving the Property Management Professional"
Website: www.evict.com http://www.evict.com/
Email: harry@evict.com mailto:harry@evict.com
[cid:image003.png@01D64E51.40E89470]https://www.facebook.com/pages/Heist-Weisse-Wolk-PA/343965575625870

Visit us on Facebook

THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS CONFIDENTIAL, ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGED, AND INTENDED FOR THE PERSONS NAMED ABOVE ONLY. ALL OTHER USE, COPYING, OR DISTRIBUTION IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED.

From: landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Leonard Cabral
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2020 7:10 PM
To: RPPTL Landlord Tenant Committee
Subject: Re: [RPPTL LandTen] Consumer Lawyer/Insurance regulation lawyer question

Hi Harry.
All property manages must be licensed realtors. My first impression is that it must violate the real estate licensing statute.
Leonard P. Cabral, Esq.

Sent from Mailhttps://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986 for Windows 10

From: Harry Heistmailto:harry@evict.com
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2020 4:51 PM
To: 'RPPTL Landlord Tenant Committee'mailto:landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org; 'RPPTL Landlord Tennant Committee'mailto:landtencl@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: [RPPTL LandTen] Consumer Lawyer/Insurance regulation lawyer question

Here are 2 more spreading fast.

Please take the time to read this when you can as it is becoming very common.

Tenant is not required to pay a Security Deposit and they are given an optional “method”. Tenant pays a set FEE to the Property magager, more or less than 1/12 of what would have been the deposit each month as a NONREFUNDABLE FEE and even continues this upon renewals!! Property manager guarantees the property owner an amount equal to what the deposit would have normally been if the tenant damages the place or owes rent (from property manager’s pocket) and sometimes even an additional month of rent if the tenant defaults. Property manager pockets the money each month as a FEE. Owner is not even aware of the scheme.

No damages, property manager makes out like a bandit. Is this legal??? The tenant is paying for the privilege/convenience of not having to pay a security deposit BUT is not using a licensed product.

THIS IS A FORM OF INSURANCE IS IT NOT? The tenant though is not being “insured”, but the owner is and the property manager is pocketing a large sum of money.
This particular scheme preys on people who do not have a security deposit to pay.

The property manager is arguing with me that this is NOT insurance as the OWNER is not paying the “premium”.

In this situation, a tenant actually could end up paying far more in nonrefundable FEES than if he had paid a normal security deposit and people are eating this up!

Next one:

Property manager charges a pet fee or pet rent to tenant. Property manager pockets this pet fee or pet rent. If there is pet damage, property manager will pay up to $XXX for pet damage. THIS IS CLEARLY AN INSURANCE PRODUCT IS IT NOT? No pet damage, property manager makes out like a bandit. Pet damage? Property manager has a limit as to what they will cover.

I am trying to explain why both of these could be insurance, violate the security deposit statute, illegal or an unfair and deceptive trade practice but can’t seem to wrap my head around exactly why.

Now, there ARE licensed insurance companies that provide this type of service. Obligo, Rhino, Leaselock and SureDeposit are but a few.

THESE above are all done in house and are a HUGE profit center now for some property managers and cost far more than the licensed products.

Any real expects out there before some huge class actions start?

I am willing to pay for solid advice.

Trust me on this. Your single family home managers are beginning to do it and it is increasing their profits dramatically.

The whole fiduciary duty thing is also disturbing. If a property manager has a choice between accepting a tenant who will pay the standard security deposit OR one who wants to pay a nonrefundable FEE each month to the property manager, who are they going to pick?

Harry

LAW OFFICES OF
HEIST, WEISSE & WOLK P.A.
PH: 1 800 253 8428
FAX: 1 800 367 9038
"Serving the Property Management Professional"
Website: www.evict.com http://www.evict.com/
Email: harry@evict.com mailto:harry@evict.com
[cid:image003.png@01D64E51.40E89470]https://www.facebook.com/pages/Heist-Weisse-Wolk-PA/343965575625870

Visit us on Facebook

THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS CONFIDENTIAL, ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGED, AND INTENDED FOR THE PERSONS NAMED ABOVE ONLY. ALL OTHER USE, COPYING, OR DISTRIBUTION IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED.

I belong to the National Association of Consumer Advocates https://www.consumeradvocates.org/ They are very hardcore consumer lawyers. The best in the country. Contact them. Someone there can help. If you have trouble contacting them let me know. I have some personal contact information that I cannot share. To complete my bucket list, I am working on filing a class action suit against landlord that will be as big as Yates. I don’t think there is much more for me to complete as a lawyer. The landlords need to be reigned in. It is ridiculous what they are getting away with. There are very few of us let that will fight unfairness in Landlord and Tenant law. If I were 30 years younger I would be dangerous. Right now I have to worry about the wife who is back in the hospital. Leonard Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10 From: Harry Heist<mailto:harry@evict.com> Sent: Monday, June 29, 2020 8:12 PM To: 'RPPTL Landlord Tenant Committee'<mailto:landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org> Subject: Re: [RPPTL LandTen] Consumer Lawyer/Insurance regulation lawyer question Leonard, They are licensed brokers or sales people working for brokers. At least the ones I work for. I did not know there was a consumer listserv. I need to get to the bottom of this as I am being asked where my “proof” of illegality is and can’t definitively point to something. I called the Florida Department of insurance Regulation a while back and they made one thing clear. If you charge the owner a fee and guaranty that you will pay for lost rent or pet damage for example, this is CLEAR. This is INSURANCE. So they are coming up with novel ways of doing it like charging a higher monthly commission and covering it. They create “packages” of things based upon different percentages they will charge the owner so it is not blatant. They now have things like a ‘RESIDENT BENEFIT PACKAGE” or an “OWNERS BENEFIT PACKAGE” where all of this is hidden. In the situations I described, it gets more complex, for example they are charging the tenant and then guaranteeing a payment to the owner in the event of damage or rent default. This business of charging a fee to the tenant and then “covering” the deposit or damages up to a certain amount is the same thing as insurance BUT, they are claiming that since the OWNER does not pay, it is not insurance per se. They also like to say that they are “guaranteeing the rent/damages” and that “guaranteeing” is NOT the same as “insurance”. I just don’t get how this could be legal or even fair to a tenant by taking advantage of them not having a full deposit, charging them a nonrefundable FEE that they WILL pay each month and this actually often amounts to a significant amount of money. It exceeds the traditional security deposit and the tenant does not even get it back!!!!!!! I tell them that if the tenant wants to use the security deposit substitute products I mentioned, or the rent guaranty products to owners, like Sure Deposit, Rhino, Obligo, Steady etc this is most likely legal but even then, SureDeposit was involved in major class action litigation in another state. These are licensed insurance products. https://www.suredeposit.com/Public/default.aspx , https://www.steadymarketplace.com/ https://leaselock.com/ https://myobligo.com/ https://surevestor.com/ The problem I see, is that some are doing this all in house and it just does not pass the smell test. Insurance is insurance. It is becoming a real battle as they all are in associations, they all are on social media and there is a herd mentality of “he/she does it so it must be legal” There is a movement in the property management business to lower the monthly percentage they charge but then get the owner and the tenant with all kinds of FEES. None of these fees are illegal per the landlord/tenant law but as we saw in Yates v. Equity, which few people even were around for that case said if it ain’t specifically allowed in the act, it is illegal. Few people know that forfeiture of a security deposit or a liquidated damage for lease break was made illegal by Yates v. Equity and then we got it put in the statute so we CAN do it legally. Many companies in Florida paid out millions back in 2005 – 2009. Very few people know how radically the statute was changed. Everyone needs to read that decision and understand how the law was changes after it. Babbitt Johnson Osborne And Le Clainche PA most likely made millions back then off of all the cases. I am very concerned that my clients are going to get nailed and I need to properly advise them. If anyone knows a real hard core consumer protection/debtor’s rights lawyer, I want to hire them to get a written opinion. Harry LAW OFFICES OF HEIST, WEISSE & WOLK P.A. PH: 1 800 253 8428 FAX: 1 800 367 9038 "Serving the Property Management Professional" Website: www.evict.com<http://www.evict.com/> Email: harry@evict.com<mailto:harry@evict.com> [cid:image003.png@01D64E51.40E89470]<https://www.facebook.com/pages/Heist-Weisse-Wolk-PA/343965575625870> Visit us on Facebook THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS CONFIDENTIAL, ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGED, AND INTENDED FOR THE PERSONS NAMED ABOVE ONLY. ALL OTHER USE, COPYING, OR DISTRIBUTION IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. From: landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Leonard Cabral Sent: Monday, June 29, 2020 7:10 PM To: RPPTL Landlord Tenant Committee Subject: Re: [RPPTL LandTen] Consumer Lawyer/Insurance regulation lawyer question Hi Harry. All property manages must be licensed realtors. My first impression is that it must violate the real estate licensing statute. Leonard P. Cabral, Esq. Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10 From: Harry Heist<mailto:harry@evict.com> Sent: Monday, June 29, 2020 4:51 PM To: 'RPPTL Landlord Tenant Committee'<mailto:landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org>; 'RPPTL Landlord Tennant Committee'<mailto:landtencl@lists.flabarrpptl.org> Subject: [RPPTL LandTen] Consumer Lawyer/Insurance regulation lawyer question Here are 2 more spreading fast. Please take the time to read this when you can as it is becoming very common. 1. Tenant is not required to pay a Security Deposit and they are given an optional “method”. Tenant pays a set FEE to the Property magager, more or less than 1/12 of what would have been the deposit each month as a NONREFUNDABLE FEE and even continues this upon renewals!! Property manager guarantees the property owner an amount equal to what the deposit would have normally been if the tenant damages the place or owes rent (from property manager’s pocket) and sometimes even an additional month of rent if the tenant defaults. Property manager pockets the money each month as a FEE. Owner is not even aware of the scheme. No damages, property manager makes out like a bandit. Is this legal??? The tenant is paying for the privilege/convenience of not having to pay a security deposit BUT is not using a licensed product. THIS IS A FORM OF INSURANCE IS IT NOT? The tenant though is not being “insured”, but the owner is and the property manager is pocketing a large sum of money. This particular scheme preys on people who do not have a security deposit to pay. The property manager is arguing with me that this is NOT insurance as the OWNER is not paying the “premium”. In this situation, a tenant actually could end up paying far more in nonrefundable FEES than if he had paid a normal security deposit and people are eating this up! Next one: 1. Property manager charges a pet fee or pet rent to tenant. Property manager pockets this pet fee or pet rent. If there is pet damage, property manager will pay up to $XXX for pet damage. THIS IS CLEARLY AN INSURANCE PRODUCT IS IT NOT? No pet damage, property manager makes out like a bandit. Pet damage? Property manager has a limit as to what they will cover. I am trying to explain why both of these could be insurance, violate the security deposit statute, illegal or an unfair and deceptive trade practice but can’t seem to wrap my head around exactly why. Now, there ARE licensed insurance companies that provide this type of service. Obligo, Rhino, Leaselock and SureDeposit are but a few. THESE above are all done in house and are a HUGE profit center now for some property managers and cost far more than the licensed products. Any real expects out there before some huge class actions start? I am willing to pay for solid advice. Trust me on this. Your single family home managers are beginning to do it and it is increasing their profits dramatically. The whole fiduciary duty thing is also disturbing. If a property manager has a choice between accepting a tenant who will pay the standard security deposit OR one who wants to pay a nonrefundable FEE each month to the property manager, who are they going to pick? Harry LAW OFFICES OF HEIST, WEISSE & WOLK P.A. PH: 1 800 253 8428 FAX: 1 800 367 9038 "Serving the Property Management Professional" Website: www.evict.com<http://www.evict.com/> Email: harry@evict.com<mailto:harry@evict.com> [cid:image003.png@01D64E51.40E89470]<https://www.facebook.com/pages/Heist-Weisse-Wolk-PA/343965575625870> Visit us on Facebook THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS CONFIDENTIAL, ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGED, AND INTENDED FOR THE PERSONS NAMED ABOVE ONLY. ALL OTHER USE, COPYING, OR DISTRIBUTION IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED.

LC

Leonard Cabral

Thu, Jul 9, 2020 11:02 PM

To those who wished my wife well, today, July 9, 2020, my wife, Mary Kathryn Cabral, died at Apopka Hospital. I will be spending time preparing for her funeral this week.

Sent from Mailhttps://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986 for Windows 10

From: landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org on behalf of Leonard Cabral LensLaw@Lenslaw.com
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2020 8:28:48 PM
To: RPPTL Landlord Tenant Committee landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [RPPTL LandTen] Consumer Lawyer/Insurance regulation lawyer question

I belong to the National Association of Consumer Advocates https://www.consumeradvocates.org/ They are very hardcore consumer lawyers. The best in the country. Contact them. Someone there can help. If you have trouble contacting them let me know. I have some personal contact information that I cannot share.

To complete my bucket list, I am working on filing a class action suit against landlord that will be as big as Yates. I don’t think there is much more for me to complete as a lawyer.

The landlords need to be reigned in. It is ridiculous what they are getting away with. There are very few of us let that will fight unfairness in Landlord and Tenant law. If I were 30 years younger I would be dangerous. Right now I have to worry about the wife who is back in the hospital.