[RPPTL LandTen] HOA video tapes
Hello all. I am hoping someone can shed some light on the following issue
for me regarding a tenant and an HOA. Thank you in advance for your time
and thoughts.
I have a client who rents a single family home in an HOA governed community.
The HOA has video cameras and tapes cars coming into and out of the
community. One night a gate is left open, someone enters and breaks into
several cars, including the cars owned by the tenants of my client. Stealing
personal property therein. HOA refuses to allow my client/owner to review
or copy the tapes, stating it will not without a subpoena or court order.
Law enforcement has been slow to respond. HOA documents are silent on this
issue. Because HOA approval is necessary for lease renewals, my client is
sensitive to turning this into a lawsuit simply to obtain the videos.
Questions: Doesn't an owner have the same right to review a video tape that
it does to review the HOA records? Are the tapes "records" of the HOA?
Without filing a lawsuit and serving a subpoena, does an owner have rights
to this information?
Regards,
AJH Logo mark
Anthony J. Horky, Esquire
Anthony J. Horky, P.A.
2255 Glades Road, Suite 324A
Boca Raton, Florida 33431
T: 561.989.3206
F: 561.952.0096
http://www.horkylaw.com www.horkylaw.com
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The owner of the unit can file an official records request with the association. The board is probably declining the request because it's coming from the tenant. Have the unit owner make the request. If they refuse to respond to the owner there are statutory damages.
On Feb 18, 2016, at 8:00 AM, Anthony J. Horky ahorky@horkylaw.com wrote:
Hello all. I am hoping someone can shed some light on the following issue for me regarding a tenant and an HOA. Thank you in advance for your time and thoughts.
I have a client who rents a single family home in an HOA governed community. The HOA has video cameras and tapes cars coming into and out of the community. One night a gate is left open, someone enters and breaks into several cars, including the cars owned by the tenants of my client. Stealing personal property therein. HOA refuses to allow my client/owner to review or copy the tapes, stating it will not without a subpoena or court order. Law enforcement has been slow to respond. HOA documents are silent on this issue. Because HOA approval is necessary for lease renewals, my client is sensitive to turning this into a lawsuit simply to obtain the videos.
Questions: Doesn’t an owner have the same right to review a video tape that it does to review the HOA records? Are the tapes “records” of the HOA? Without filing a lawsuit and serving a subpoena, does an owner have rights to this information?
Regards,
<image003.png>
Anthony J. Horky, Esquire
Anthony J. Horky, P.A.
2255 Glades Road, Suite 324A
Boca Raton, Florida 33431
T: 561.989.3206
F: 561.952.0096
This message and the documents attached to it, if any, are intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is attorney-client privileged or confidential, and/or may contain attorney work product. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please delete all electronic copies of this message and its attachments, if any, destroy any hard copies you may have created and notify me immediately at: ahorky@horkylaw.com.
Tax Advice Disclosure: To ensure compliance with requirements imposed by the IRS under Circular 230, we inform you that any U.S. federal tax advice contained in this communication (including any attachments), unless otherwise specifically stated, was not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of (1) avoiding penalties under the Internal Revenue Code or (2) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any matters addressed herein.
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If there's no settled law on whether the tapes are "records" I would take
the position they are "records" and follow the procedure for record
inspection requests in the statute. The HOA will then have to decide if
it's willing to fight your client and risk paying the statutory damages for
failure to timely provide the records and attorney's fees which I believe
the statute allows as well. You probably need the owner's cooperation
though since I do not believe tenants have a right to inspect records. It
is likely the owner will not want to get involved though to avoid problems
with the HOA approving their tenants in the future. If the value of the
property stolen is small then it may not even be worth it. I'd tell my
tenant client to move if they prefer not to live with difficult people
running the HOA. Why continue to live with people who run their HOA that
way?
Sent from my mobile device
On Feb 18, 2016 8:01 AM, "Anthony J. Horky" ahorky@horkylaw.com wrote:
Hello all. I am hoping someone can shed some light on the following issue
for me regarding a tenant and an HOA. Thank you in advance for your time
and thoughts.
I have a client who rents a single family home in an HOA governed
community. The HOA has video cameras and tapes cars coming into and out of
the community. One night a gate is left open, someone enters and breaks
into several cars, including the cars owned by the tenants of my client.
Stealing personal property therein. HOA refuses to allow my client/owner
to review or copy the tapes, stating it will not without a subpoena or
court order. Law enforcement has been slow to respond. HOA documents are
silent on this issue. Because HOA approval is necessary for lease
renewals, my client is sensitive to turning this into a lawsuit simply to
obtain the videos.
Questions: Doesn’t an owner have the same right to review a video tape
that it does to review the HOA records? Are the tapes “records” of the
HOA? Without filing a lawsuit and serving a subpoena, does an owner have
rights to this information?
Regards,
[image: AJH Logo mark]
Anthony J. Horky, Esquire
Anthony J. Horky, P.A.
2255 Glades Road, Suite 324A
Boca Raton, Florida 33431
T: 561.989.3206
F: 561.952.0096
This message and the documents attached to it, if any, are intended only
for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is
attorney-client privileged or confidential, and/or may contain attorney
work product. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby
notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly
prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please delete
all electronic copies of this message and its attachments, if any, destroy
any hard copies you may have created and notify me immediately at:
ahorky@horkylaw.com.
Tax Advice Disclosure: To ensure compliance with requirements imposed by
the IRS under Circular 230, we inform you that any U.S. federal tax advice
contained in this communication (including any attachments), unless
otherwise specifically stated, was not intended or written to be used, and
cannot be used, for the purpose of (1) avoiding penalties under the
Internal Revenue Code or (2) promoting, marketing or recommending to
another party any matters addressed herein.
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Mr. Joseph Adams is one of the most respected attorneys in the HOA industry. For a contrary view read his blog:
You have to wonder why the HOA would object to the request in the first place though.
Best regards,
Carlos R. Arias
[Arias Bosinger Logo]
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From: landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Garofalo
Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2016 8:43 AM
To: RPPTL Landlord Tenant landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [RPPTL LandTen] HOA video tapes
If there's no settled law on whether the tapes are "records" I would take the position they are "records" and follow the procedure for record inspection requests in the statute. The HOA will then have to decide if it's willing to fight your client and risk paying the statutory damages for failure to timely provide the records and attorney's fees which I believe the statute allows as well. You probably need the owner's cooperation though since I do not believe tenants have a right to inspect records. It is likely the owner will not want to get involved though to avoid problems with the HOA approving their tenants in the future. If the value of the property stolen is small then it may not even be worth it. I'd tell my tenant client to move if they prefer not to live with difficult people running the HOA. Why continue to live with people who run their HOA that way?
Sent from my mobile device
On Feb 18, 2016 8:01 AM, "Anthony J. Horky" <ahorky@horkylaw.commailto:ahorky@horkylaw.com> wrote:
Hello all. I am hoping someone can shed some light on the following issue for me regarding a tenant and an HOA. Thank you in advance for your time and thoughts.
I have a client who rents a single family home in an HOA governed community. The HOA has video cameras and tapes cars coming into and out of the community. One night a gate is left open, someone enters and breaks into several cars, including the cars owned by the tenants of my client. Stealing personal property therein. HOA refuses to allow my client/owner to review or copy the tapes, stating it will not without a subpoena or court order. Law enforcement has been slow to respond. HOA documents are silent on this issue. Because HOA approval is necessary for lease renewals, my client is sensitive to turning this into a lawsuit simply to obtain the videos.
Questions: Doesn’t an owner have the same right to review a video tape that it does to review the HOA records? Are the tapes “records” of the HOA? Without filing a lawsuit and serving a subpoena, does an owner have rights to this information?
Regards,
[AJH Logo mark]
Anthony J. Horky, Esquire
Anthony J. Horky, P.A.
2255 Glades Road, Suite 324A
Boca Raton, Florida 33431
T: 561.989.3206tel:561.989.3206
F: 561.952.0096tel:561.952.0096
www.horkylaw.comhttp://www.horkylaw.com
This message and the documents attached to it, if any, are intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is attorney-client privileged or confidential, and/or may contain attorney work product. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please delete all electronic copies of this message and its attachments, if any, destroy any hard copies you may have created and notify me immediately at: ahorky@horkylaw.commailto:ahorky@horkylaw.com.
Tax Advice Disclosure: To ensure compliance with requirements imposed by the IRS under Circular 230, we inform you that any U.S. federal tax advice contained in this communication (including any attachments), unless otherwise specifically stated, was not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of (1) avoiding penalties under the Internal Revenue Code or (2) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any matters addressed herein.
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The catch all in the HOA official records statute F.S. 720.303 (4)(l) limits official records to "written records" of the association which are related to the operation of the association. It is important to send a preservation notice because there are many video systems that automatically delete or record over the video after some amount of time (e.g. 10 days).
[cid:image001.jpg@01D16A29.D53C5780]
Christopher L. Pope (Bio)http://www.paveselaw.com/attorneys/christopher-l-pope
Attorney
1833 Hendry Street (33901)
Post Office Drawer 1507 Fort Myers, FL 33902
Direct 239.336.6208 Fax 239.332.2243
chrispope@paveselaw.commailto:%0bchrispope@paveselaw.com
Visit our website: www.paveselaw.comhttp://www.paveselaw.com/
From: landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Anthony J. Horky
Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2016 8:00 AM
To: 'RPPTL Landlord Tenant Committee'
Subject: [RPPTL LandTen] HOA video tapes
Hello all. I am hoping someone can shed some light on the following issue for me regarding a tenant and an HOA. Thank you in advance for your time and thoughts.
I have a client who rents a single family home in an HOA governed community. The HOA has video cameras and tapes cars coming into and out of the community. One night a gate is left open, someone enters and breaks into several cars, including the cars owned by the tenants of my client. Stealing personal property therein. HOA refuses to allow my client/owner to review or copy the tapes, stating it will not without a subpoena or court order. Law enforcement has been slow to respond. HOA documents are silent on this issue. Because HOA approval is necessary for lease renewals, my client is sensitive to turning this into a lawsuit simply to obtain the videos.
Questions: Doesn't an owner have the same right to review a video tape that it does to review the HOA records? Are the tapes "records" of the HOA? Without filing a lawsuit and serving a subpoena, does an owner have rights to this information?
Regards,
[AJH Logo mark]
Anthony J. Horky, Esquire
Anthony J. Horky, P.A.
2255 Glades Road, Suite 324A
Boca Raton, Florida 33431
T: 561.989.3206
F: 561.952.0096
www.horkylaw.comhttp://www.horkylaw.com
This message and the documents attached to it, if any, are intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is attorney-client privileged or confidential, and/or may contain attorney work product. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please delete all electronic copies of this message and its attachments, if any, destroy any hard copies you may have created and notify me immediately at: ahorky@horkylaw.commailto:ahorky@horkylaw.com.
Tax Advice Disclosure: To ensure compliance with requirements imposed by the IRS under Circular 230, we inform you that any U.S. federal tax advice contained in this communication (including any attachments), unless otherwise specifically stated, was not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of (1) avoiding penalties under the Internal Revenue Code or (2) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any matters addressed herein.
Confidentiality Note: The information contained in this transmission is legally privileged and confidential, intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you receive this communication in error, please notify us immediately by telephone call to (239) 334-2195 and delete the message. Thank you.
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Thank you all for the insight and opinions on this issue.
Regards,
AJH Logo mark
Anthony J. Horky, Esquire
Anthony J. Horky, P.A.
2255 Glades Road, Suite 324A
Boca Raton, Florida 33431
T: 561.989.3206
F: 561.952.0096
This message and the documents attached to it, if any, are intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is attorney-client privileged or confidential, and/or may contain attorney work product. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please delete all electronic copies of this message and its attachments, if any, destroy any hard copies you may have created and notify me immediately at: mailto:ahorky@horkylaw.com ahorky@horkylaw.com.
Tax Advice Disclosure: To ensure compliance with requirements imposed by the IRS under Circular 230, we inform you that any U.S. federal tax advice contained in this communication (including any attachments), unless otherwise specifically stated, was not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of (1) avoiding penalties under the Internal Revenue Code or (2) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any matters addressed herein.
From: landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Christopher L. Pope
Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2016 8:54 AM
To: RPPTL Landlord Tenant Committee
Subject: Re: [RPPTL LandTen] HOA video tapes
The catch all in the HOA official records statute F.S. 720.303 (4)(l) limits official records to “written records” of the association which are related to the operation of the association. It is important to send a preservation notice because there are many video systems that automatically delete or record over the video after some amount of time (e.g. 10 days).
Christopher L. Pope (Bio) http://www.paveselaw.com/attorneys/christopher-l-pope
Attorney
1833 Hendry Street (33901)
Post Office Drawer 1507 Fort Myers, FL 33902
Direct 239.336.6208 Fax 239.332.2243 mailto:%0bchrispope@paveselaw.com
chrispope@paveselaw.com
Visit our website: http://www.paveselaw.com/ www.paveselaw.com
From: landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Anthony J. Horky
Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2016 8:00 AM
To: 'RPPTL Landlord Tenant Committee'
Subject: [RPPTL LandTen] HOA video tapes
Hello all. I am hoping someone can shed some light on the following issue for me regarding a tenant and an HOA. Thank you in advance for your time and thoughts.
I have a client who rents a single family home in an HOA governed community. The HOA has video cameras and tapes cars coming into and out of the community. One night a gate is left open, someone enters and breaks into several cars, including the cars owned by the tenants of my client. Stealing personal property therein. HOA refuses to allow my client/owner to review or copy the tapes, stating it will not without a subpoena or court order. Law enforcement has been slow to respond. HOA documents are silent on this issue. Because HOA approval is necessary for lease renewals, my client is sensitive to turning this into a lawsuit simply to obtain the videos.
Questions: Doesn’t an owner have the same right to review a video tape that it does to review the HOA records? Are the tapes “records” of the HOA? Without filing a lawsuit and serving a subpoena, does an owner have rights to this information?
Regards,
AJH Logo mark
Anthony J. Horky, Esquire
Anthony J. Horky, P.A.
2255 Glades Road, Suite 324A
Boca Raton, Florida 33431
T: 561.989.3206
F: 561.952.0096
This message and the documents attached to it, if any, are intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is attorney-client privileged or confidential, and/or may contain attorney work product. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please delete all electronic copies of this message and its attachments, if any, destroy any hard copies you may have created and notify me immediately at: mailto:ahorky@horkylaw.com ahorky@horkylaw.com.
Tax Advice Disclosure: To ensure compliance with requirements imposed by the IRS under Circular 230, we inform you that any U.S. federal tax advice contained in this communication (including any attachments), unless otherwise specifically stated, was not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of (1) avoiding penalties under the Internal Revenue Code or (2) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any matters addressed herein.
Confidentiality Note: The information contained in this transmission is legally privileged and confidential, intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you receive this communication in error, please notify us immediately by telephone call to (239) 334-2195 and delete the message. Thank you.
This law firm acts as a debt collector. This e-mail may be an attempt to collect a debt. If so, all information obtained will be used for that purpose.
Disclaimer
The information contained in this communication from the sender is confidential. It is intended solely for use by the recipient and others authorized to receive it. If you are not the recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or taking action in relation of the contents of this information is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.
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