Re: [RPPTL LandTen] Service Animals, Emotional Support Animals etc.
I actually attended a CLE on this issue recently and my guess would be that there probably are not any private attorneys who feel confident in this area of law right now. Even the attorney from the housing commission who gave the presentation acknowledged there is a lot of confusion and conflicting rules when it comes to application of ADA, Fair Housing, Fed. laws and State Statutes. I have found it's almost impossible to give the right answer to a property owner. If one set of laws doesn't apply or allows for a certain course of action, then there always seems to be another set of laws that is the opposite.
I would love to see any CLE's or discussions on the issue because as Harry said, this is not going away.
Cary
Law Offices of Cary P. Sabol
P.O. Box 15981 | West Palm Beach | Florida | 33416
Office: (561) 413-4449
Cell: (561) 281-2744
Fax: (888) 316-2881
.
THIS IS AN ATTEMPT TO COLLECT A DEBT AND ANY INFORMATION OBTAINED WILL BE USED FOR THAT PURPOSE. THIS IS A COMMUNICATION FROM A DEBT COLLECTOR.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
IRS Circular 230 Notice: Pursuant to recently enacted U.S. Treasury Department Regulations, we are now required to advise you that, unless otherwise expressly indicated, any federal tax advice expressed above was neither written nor intended by the sender or this firm to be used and cannot be used by any taxpayer for the purpose of avoiding penalties that may be imposed under U.S. tax law. If any person uses or refers to any such tax advice in promoting, marketing or recommending a partnership or other entity, investment plan or arrangement to any taxpayer, then the advice should be considered to have been written to support the promotion or marketing by a person other than the sender or this firm of that transaction or matter, and such taxpayer should seek advice based on the taxpayer's particular circumstances from an independent tax advisor.
Confidentiality Notice: This electronic mail transmission is intended for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential information belonging to the sender which is protected by the attorney-client privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender immediately by e-mail and delete the original message. Thank you for your cooperation.
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [RPPTL LandTen] Service Animals, Emotional Support Animals
etc.
From: Jariel Bortnick <jariel.bortnick@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, August 18, 2015 10:58 am
To: RPPTL Landlord Tenant Committee <landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org>To start, maybe we could do a section CLE on the topic?
Jariel
On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 10:36 AM, Harry Heist <harry@evict.com> wrote:
We need an attorney who REALLY knows this law inside and out for referrals for questions.
We are buried in questions and requests that we cannot answer or are uncomfortable in answering.
We just saw a Florida case the other day where a Florida attorney’s blatant bad advice cost an association over 20K
Never in 25 years have I seen this. It is totally out of control.
We have an attorney we refer all the time in Georgia but we are looking for one who knows this law inside and out in Florida and is prepared to go out on a limb and actually answer questions.
You all probably know we have a LOT of clients. This could be good opportunity for someone who really knows the law, is keeping up on it 100% and can give a solid answer.
This stuff is NOT going away.
Harry
LAW OFFICES OF
HEIST, WEISSE & WOLK P.A.
PH: 1 800 253 8428
FAX: 1 800 367 9038
"Serving the Property Management Professional"
Website: www.evict.com Email: harry@evict.com
Visit us on Facebook**
THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS CONFIDENTIAL, ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGED, AND INTENDED FOR THE PERSONS NAMED ABOVE ONLY. ALL OTHER USE, COPYING, OR DISTRIBUTION IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED.
_______________________________________________
landten mailing list
landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org
http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/landten--
Jariel Bortnick
561.703.1155
landten mailing list
landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org
http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/landten
I have never been at such a loss in my life on one area of law.
While I am not too into learning new law at this point, maybe we can get a small subgroup together.
I had 3 of these already today.
The main issue is what proof can be asked of the applicant/tenant for the service animal need and who is qualified to provide that proof.
I have seen some wild things/forms/info requests coming out of extremely large national and Florida firms who focus on representing associations. I do not think they are legal. I would welcome their input as they are putting their neck out on the line for these associations.
Harry
LAW OFFICES OF
HEIST, WEISSE & WOLK P.A.
PH: 1 800 253 8428
FAX: 1 800 367 9038
"Serving the Property Management Professional"
Website: http://www.evict.com/ www.evict.com
Email: mailto:harry@evict.com harry@evict.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Heist-Weisse-Wolk-PA/343965575625870
Visit us on Facebook
THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS CONFIDENTIAL, ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGED, AND INTENDED FOR THE PERSONS NAMED ABOVE ONLY. ALL OTHER USE, COPYING, OR DISTRIBUTION IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED.
From: landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Cary P. Sabol, Esq.
Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2015 11:40 AM
To: RPPTL Landlord Tenant Committee
Subject: Re: [RPPTL LandTen] Service Animals, Emotional Support Animals etc.
I actually attended a CLE on this issue recently and my guess would be that there probably are not any private attorneys who feel confident in this area of law right now. Even the attorney from the housing commission who gave the presentation acknowledged there is a lot of confusion and conflicting rules when it comes to application of ADA, Fair Housing, Fed. laws and State Statutes. I have found it's almost impossible to give the right answer to a property owner. If one set of laws doesn't apply or allows for a certain course of action, then there always seems to be another set of laws that is the opposite.
I would love to see any CLE's or discussions on the issue because as Harry said, this is not going away.
Cary
Law Offices of Cary P. Sabol
P.O. Box 15981 | West Palm Beach | Florida | 33416
Office: (561) 413-4449
Cell: (561) 281-2744
Fax: (888) 316-2881
.
THIS IS AN ATTEMPT TO COLLECT A DEBT AND ANY INFORMATION OBTAINED WILL BE USED FOR THAT PURPOSE. THIS IS A COMMUNICATION FROM A DEBT COLLECTOR.
IRS Circular 230 Notice: Pursuant to recently enacted U.S. Treasury Department Regulations, we are now required to advise you that, unless otherwise expressly indicated, any federal tax advice expressed above was neither written nor intended by the sender or this firm to be used and cannot be used by any taxpayer for the purpose of avoiding penalties that may be imposed under U.S. tax law. If any person uses or refers to any such tax advice in promoting, marketing or recommending a partnership or other entity, investment plan or arrangement to any taxpayer, then the advice should be considered to have been written to support the promotion or marketing by a person other than the sender or this firm of that transaction or matter, and such taxpayer should seek advice based on the taxpayer's particular circumstances from an independent tax advisor.
Confidentiality Notice: This electronic mail transmission is intended for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential information belonging to the sender which is protected by the attorney-client privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender immediately by e-mail and delete the original message. Thank you for your cooperation.
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [RPPTL LandTen] Service Animals, Emotional Support Animals
etc.
From: Jariel Bortnick jariel.bortnick@gmail.com
Date: Tue, August 18, 2015 10:58 am
To: RPPTL Landlord Tenant Committee landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org
To start, maybe we could do a section CLE on the topic?
Jariel
On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 10:36 AM, Harry Heist harry@evict.com wrote:
We need an attorney who REALLY knows this law inside and out for referrals for questions.
We are buried in questions and requests that we cannot answer or are uncomfortable in answering.
We just saw a Florida case the other day where a Florida attorney’s blatant bad advice cost an association over 20K
Never in 25 years have I seen this. It is totally out of control.
We have an attorney we refer all the time in Georgia but we are looking for one who knows this law inside and out in Florida and is prepared to go out on a limb and actually answer questions.
You all probably know we have a LOT of clients. This could be good opportunity for someone who really knows the law, is keeping up on it 100% and can give a solid answer.
This stuff is NOT going away.
Harry
LAW OFFICES OF
HEIST, WEISSE & WOLK P.A.
PH: 1 800 253 8428 tel:1%20800%20253%208428
FAX: 1 800 367 9038 tel:1%20800%20367%209038
"Serving the Property Management Professional"
Website: http://www.evict.com/ www.evict.com
Email: mailto:harry@evict.com harry@evict.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Heist-Weisse-Wolk-PA/343965575625870
Visit us on Facebook
THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS CONFIDENTIAL, ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGED, AND INTENDED FOR THE PERSONS NAMED ABOVE ONLY. ALL OTHER USE, COPYING, OR DISTRIBUTION IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED.
landten mailing list
landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org
http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/landten
--
Jariel Bortnick
561.703.1155
landten mailing list
landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org
http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/landten
I would participate in this. I think that the new Florida statute is problematic, as well, and probably inconsistent with the Fair Housing Act (federal).
Lainie J. Simon, Esq.
185 NW Spanish River Boulevard
Suite 220
Boca Raton, FL 33431
561.445.1361
561.997.6224(fax)
PRIVILEGE AND CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521 and is legally privileged. The contents of this e-mail message and any attachments are intended solely for the party or parties addressed and named in this message. This communication and all attachments, if any, are intended to be and to remain confidential, and it may be subject to the applicable attorney - client and or work product privileges. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, or if this message has been addressed to you in error, please immediately alert the sender by reply e-mail and then delete this message and its attachments. Do not deliver, distribute, or copy this message and or any attachments if you are not the intended recipient. Do not disclose the contents or take any action in reliance upon the information contained in this communication or any attachments. Although this E-mail and any attachments are believed to be free of any virus or other defect that might affect any computer system into which it is received and opened, it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that it is virus free and no responsibility is accepted by the sender for damage arising in any way from its use.
Ê
On Aug 18, 2015, at 11:51 AM, Harry Heist harry@evict.com wrote:
I have never been at such a loss in my life on one area of law.
While I am not too into learning new law at this point, maybe we can get a small subgroup together.
I had 3 of these already today.
The main issue is what proof can be asked of the applicant/tenant for the service animal need and who is qualified to provide that proof.
I have seen some wild things/forms/info requests coming out of extremely large national and Florida firms who focus on representing associations. I do not think they are legal. I would welcome their input as they are putting their neck out on the line for these associations.
Harry
LAW OFFICES OF
HEIST, WEISSE & WOLK P.A.
PH: 1 800 253 8428
FAX: 1 800 367 9038
"Serving the Property Management Professional"
Website: www.evict.com http://www.evict.com/
Email: harry@evict.com mailto:harry@evict.com
<image002.png> https://www.facebook.com/pages/Heist-Weisse-Wolk-PA/343965575625870
Visit us on Facebook
THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS CONFIDENTIAL, ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGED, AND INTENDED FOR THE PERSONS NAMED ABOVE ONLY. ALL OTHER USE, COPYING, OR DISTRIBUTION IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED.
From: landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Cary P. Sabol, Esq.
Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2015 11:40 AM
To: RPPTL Landlord Tenant Committee
Subject: Re: [RPPTL LandTen] Service Animals, Emotional Support Animals etc.
I actually attended a CLE on this issue recently and my guess would be that there probably are not any private attorneys who feel confident in this area of law right now. Even the attorney from the housing commission who gave the presentation acknowledged there is a lot of confusion and conflicting rules when it comes to application of ADA, Fair Housing, Fed. laws and State Statutes. I have found it's almost impossible to give the right answer to a property owner. If one set of laws doesn't apply or allows for a certain course of action, then there always seems to be another set of laws that is the opposite.
I would love to see any CLE's or discussions on the issue because as Harry said, this is not going away.
Cary
Law Offices of Cary P. Sabol
P.O. Box 15981 | West Palm Beach | Florida | 33416
Office: (561) 413-4449
Cell: (561) 281-2744
Fax: (888) 316-2881
.
THIS IS AN ATTEMPT TO COLLECT A DEBT AND ANY INFORMATION OBTAINED WILL BE USED FOR THAT PURPOSE. THIS IS A COMMUNICATION FROM A DEBT COLLECTOR.
IRS Circular 230 Notice: Pursuant to recently enacted U.S. Treasury Department Regulations, we are now required to advise you that, unless otherwise expressly indicated, any federal tax advice expressed above was neither written nor intended by the sender or this firm to be used and cannot be used by any taxpayer for the purpose of avoiding penalties that may be imposed under U.S. tax law. If any person uses or refers to any such tax advice in promoting, marketing or recommending a partnership or other entity, investment plan or arrangement to any taxpayer, then the advice should be considered to have been written to support the promotion or marketing by a person other than the sender or this firm of that transaction or matter, and such taxpayer should seek advice based on the taxpayer's particular circumstances from an independent tax advisor.
Confidentiality Notice: This electronic mail transmission is intended for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential information belonging to the sender which is protected by the attorney-client privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender immediately by e-mail and delete the original message. Thank you for your cooperation.
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [RPPTL LandTen] Service Animals, Emotional Support Animals
etc.
From: Jariel Bortnick <jariel.bortnick@gmail.com mailto:jariel.bortnick@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, August 18, 2015 10:58 am
To: RPPTL Landlord Tenant Committee <landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org>
To start, maybe we could do a section CLE on the topic?
Jariel
On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 10:36 AM, Harry Heist <harry@evict.com mailto:harry@evict.com> wrote:
We need an attorney who REALLY knows this law inside and out for referrals for questions.
We are buried in questions and requests that we cannot answer or are uncomfortable in answering.
We just saw a Florida case the other day where a Florida attorney’s blatant bad advice cost an association over 20K
Never in 25 years have I seen this. It is totally out of control.
We have an attorney we refer all the time in Georgia but we are looking for one who knows this law inside and out in Florida and is prepared to go out on a limb and actually answer questions.
You all probably know we have a LOT of clients. This could be good opportunity for someone who really knows the law, is keeping up on it 100% and can give a solid answer.
This stuff is NOT going away.
Harry
LAW OFFICES OF
HEIST, WEISSE & WOLK P.A.
PH: 1 800 253 8428 tel:1%20800%20253%208428
FAX: 1 800 367 9038 tel:1%20800%20367%209038
"Serving the Property Management Professional"
Website: www.evict.com http://www.evict.com/
Email: harry@evict.com mailto:harry@evict.com
<image003.png> https://www.facebook.com/pages/Heist-Weisse-Wolk-PA/343965575625870
Visit us on Facebook
THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS CONFIDENTIAL, ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGED, AND INTENDED FOR THE PERSONS NAMED ABOVE ONLY. ALL OTHER USE, COPYING, OR DISTRIBUTION IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED.
landten mailing list
landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org
http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/landten http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/landten
--
Jariel Bortnick
561.703.1155
landten mailing list
landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org
http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/landten http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/landten_______________________________________________
landten mailing list
landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org
http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/landten
Unfortunately, I think it will take legislative action in DC to fix this mess- something none of us can afford to lobby.😒
Deborah Marks
Deborah Marks, PA
18495 South Dixie Highway
Suite 134
Miami, FL 33157
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 18, 2015, at 11:39 AM, Cary P. Sabol, Esq. csabol@sabollaw.com wrote:
I actually attended a CLE on this issue recently and my guess would be that there probably are not any private attorneys who feel confident in this area of law right now. Even the attorney from the housing commission who gave the presentation acknowledged there is a lot of confusion and conflicting rules when it comes to application of ADA, Fair Housing, Fed. laws and State Statutes. I have found it's almost impossible to give the right answer to a property owner. If one set of laws doesn't apply or allows for a certain course of action, then there always seems to be another set of laws that is the opposite.
I would love to see any CLE's or discussions on the issue because as Harry said, this is not going away.
Cary
Law Offices of Cary P. Sabol
P.O. Box 15981 | West Palm Beach | Florida | 33416
Office: (561) 413-4449
Cell: (561) 281-2744
Fax: (888) 316-2881
.
THIS IS AN ATTEMPT TO COLLECT A DEBT AND ANY INFORMATION OBTAINED WILL BE USED FOR THAT PURPOSE. THIS IS A COMMUNICATION FROM A DEBT COLLECTOR.
IRS Circular 230 Notice: Pursuant to recently enacted U.S. Treasury Department Regulations, we are now required to advise you that, unless otherwise expressly indicated, any federal tax advice expressed above was neither written nor intended by the sender or this firm to be used and cannot be used by any taxpayer for the purpose of avoiding penalties that may be imposed under U.S. tax law. If any person uses or refers to any such tax advice in promoting, marketing or recommending a partnership or other entity, investment plan or arrangement to any taxpayer, then the advice should be considered to have been written to support the promotion or marketing by a person other than the sender or this firm of that transaction or matter, and such taxpayer should seek advice based on the taxpayer's particular circumstances from an independent tax advisor.
Confidentiality Notice: This electronic mail transmission is intended for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential information belonging to the sender which is protected by the attorney-client privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender immediately by e-mail and delete the original message. Thank you for your cooperation.
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [RPPTL LandTen] Service Animals, Emotional Support Animals
etc.
From: Jariel Bortnick jariel.bortnick@gmail.com
Date: Tue, August 18, 2015 10:58 am
To: RPPTL Landlord Tenant Committee landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org
To start, maybe we could do a section CLE on the topic?
Jariel
On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 10:36 AM, Harry Heist harry@evict.com wrote:
We need an attorney who REALLY knows this law inside and out for referrals for questions.
We are buried in questions and requests that we cannot answer or are uncomfortable in answering.
We just saw a Florida case the other day where a Florida attorney’s blatant bad advice cost an association over 20K
Never in 25 years have I seen this. It is totally out of control.
We have an attorney we refer all the time in Georgia but we are looking for one who knows this law inside and out in Florida and is prepared to go out on a limb and actually answer questions.
You all probably know we have a LOT of clients. This could be good opportunity for someone who really knows the law, is keeping up on it 100% and can give a solid answer.
This stuff is NOT going away.
Harry
LAW OFFICES OF
HEIST, WEISSE & WOLK P.A.
PH: 1 800 253 8428
FAX: 1 800 367 9038
"Serving the Property Management Professional"
Website: www.evict.com
Email: harry@evict.com
<image003.png>
Visit us on Facebook
THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS CONFIDENTIAL, ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGED, AND INTENDED FOR THE PERSONS NAMED ABOVE ONLY. ALL OTHER USE, COPYING, OR DISTRIBUTION IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED.
landten mailing list
landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org
http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/landten
--
Jariel Bortnick
561.703.1155
landten mailing list
landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org
http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/landten
landten mailing list
landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org
http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/landten
If a subgroup is formed on this issue, I would like to participate.
Tequisha Y. Myles, Esq.
Fair Housing and Elder Law Projects
Legal Aid Society of Palm Beach County, Inc.
423 Fern Street, Suite 200
West Palm Beach, FL 33401
(561) 655-8944 ext. 296
(561) 655-5269 Fax
tmyles@legalaidpbc.orgmailto:tmyles@legalaidpbc.org
From: landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Lainie Simon
Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2015 11:58 AM
To: RPPTL Landlord Tenant Committee
Subject: Re: [RPPTL LandTen] Service Animals, Emotional Support Animals etc.
I would participate in this. I think that the new Florida statute is problematic, as well, and probably inconsistent with the Fair Housing Act (federal).
Lainie J. Simon, Esq.
185 NW Spanish River Boulevard
Suite 220
Boca Raton, FL 33431
561.445.1361
561.997.6224(fax)
PRIVILEGE AND CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521 and is legally privileged. The contents of this e-mail message and any attachments are intended solely for the party or parties addressed and named in this message. This communication and all attachments, if any, are intended to be and to remain confidential, and it may be subject to the applicable attorney - client and or work product privileges. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, or if this message has been addressed to you in error, please immediately alert the sender by reply e-mail and then delete this message and its attachments. Do not deliver, distribute, or copy this message and or any attachments if you are not the intended recipient. Do not disclose the contents or take any action in reliance upon the information contained in this communication or any attachments. Although this E-mail and any attachments are believed to be free of any virus or other defect that might affect any computer system into which it is received and opened, it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that it is virus free and no responsibility is accepted by the sender for damage arising in any way from its use.
Ê
On Aug 18, 2015, at 11:51 AM, Harry Heist <harry@evict.commailto:harry@evict.com> wrote:
I have never been at such a loss in my life on one area of law.
While I am not too into learning new law at this point, maybe we can get a small subgroup together.
I had 3 of these already today.
The main issue is what proof can be asked of the applicant/tenant for the service animal need and who is qualified to provide that proof.
I have seen some wild things/forms/info requests coming out of extremely large national and Florida firms who focus on representing associations. I do not think they are legal. I would welcome their input as they are putting their neck out on the line for these associations.
Harry
LAW OFFICES OF
HEIST, WEISSE & WOLK P.A.
PH: 1 800 253 8428
FAX: 1 800 367 9038
"Serving the Property Management Professional"
Website: www.evict.comhttp://www.evict.com/
Email: harry@evict.commailto:harry@evict.com
<image002.png>https://www.facebook.com/pages/Heist-Weisse-Wolk-PA/343965575625870
Visit us on Facebook
THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS CONFIDENTIAL, ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGED, AND INTENDED FOR THE PERSONS NAMED ABOVE ONLY. ALL OTHER USE, COPYING, OR DISTRIBUTION IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED.
From: landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Cary P. Sabol, Esq.
Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2015 11:40 AM
To: RPPTL Landlord Tenant Committee
Subject: Re: [RPPTL LandTen] Service Animals, Emotional Support Animals etc.
I actually attended a CLE on this issue recently and my guess would be that there probably are not any private attorneys who feel confident in this area of law right now. Even the attorney from the housing commission who gave the presentation acknowledged there is a lot of confusion and conflicting rules when it comes to application of ADA, Fair Housing, Fed. laws and State Statutes. I have found it's almost impossible to give the right answer to a property owner. If one set of laws doesn't apply or allows for a certain course of action, then there always seems to be another set of laws that is the opposite.
I would love to see any CLE's or discussions on the issue because as Harry said, this is not going away.
Cary
Law Offices of Cary P. Sabol
P.O. Box 15981 | West Palm Beach | Florida | 33416
Office: (561) 413-4449
Cell: (561) 281-2744
Fax: (888) 316-2881
.
THIS IS AN ATTEMPT TO COLLECT A DEBT AND ANY INFORMATION OBTAINED WILL BE USED FOR THAT PURPOSE. THIS IS A COMMUNICATION FROM A DEBT COLLECTOR.
IRS Circular 230 Notice: Pursuant to recently enacted U.S. Treasury Department Regulations, we are now required to advise you that, unless otherwise expressly indicated, any federal tax advice expressed above was neither written nor intended by the sender or this firm to be used and cannot be used by any taxpayer for the purpose of avoiding penalties that may be imposed under U.S. tax law. If any person uses or refers to any such tax advice in promoting, marketing or recommending a partnership or other entity, investment plan or arrangement to any taxpayer, then the advice should be considered to have been written to support the promotion or marketing by a person other than the sender or this firm of that transaction or matter, and such taxpayer should seek advice based on the taxpayer's particular circumstances from an independent tax advisor.
Confidentiality Notice: This electronic mail transmission is intended for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential information belonging to the sender which is protected by the attorney-client privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender immediately by e-mail and delete the original message. Thank you for your cooperation.
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [RPPTL LandTen] Service Animals, Emotional Support Animals
etc.
From: Jariel Bortnick <jariel.bortnick@gmail.commailto:jariel.bortnick@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, August 18, 2015 10:58 am
To: RPPTL Landlord Tenant Committee <landten@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org>
To start, maybe we could do a section CLE on the topic?
Jariel
On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 10:36 AM, Harry Heist <harry@evict.commailto:harry@evict.com> wrote:
We need an attorney who REALLY knows this law inside and out for referrals for questions.
We are buried in questions and requests that we cannot answer or are uncomfortable in answering.
We just saw a Florida case the other day where a Florida attorney’s blatant bad advice cost an association over 20K
Never in 25 years have I seen this. It is totally out of control.
We have an attorney we refer all the time in Georgia but we are looking for one who knows this law inside and out in Florida and is prepared to go out on a limb and actually answer questions.
You all probably know we have a LOT of clients. This could be good opportunity for someone who really knows the law, is keeping up on it 100% and can give a solid answer.
This stuff is NOT going away.
Harry
LAW OFFICES OF
HEIST, WEISSE & WOLK P.A.
PH: 1 800 253 8428tel:1%20800%20253%208428
FAX: 1 800 367 9038tel:1%20800%20367%209038
"Serving the Property Management Professional"
Website: www.evict.comhttp://www.evict.com/
Email: harry@evict.commailto:harry@evict.com
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Visit us on Facebook
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Dear Harry (and others):
I can provide the perspective of the tenant/consumer of housing services in the context of the U.S. Fair Housing Act as amended in 1988 (signed into law by President Ronald Reagan).
The fact you most need to know about the “animal” situation is that the law’s focus is on the person -- not the animal. Thus, a landlord’s or HOA’s prohibition and regulation of “pets” is fairly well useless in defense of claims under the Act.
The Act is found at 42 U.S.C. §§ 3601 et sequitur.
For your purposes, the operative statutes are § 3602(h) (definition of “handicap”) and § 3604(f) (special rights of persons with “handicaps”). I have attached formatted versions of both statutes.
You also need to recognize that the Act does not protect persons with “disability”. It protects persons with “handicap”. “Handicap” is a much broader, more inclusive category. If you have trouble rationalizing this, remember that with the “Education of All Children’s Handicap Act”, kids who are “gifted” and in honors classes are considered “handicapped” requiring special educational adjustments.
Thus, the first question of proof is: Does the consumer have a “handicap” that is recognized by a person entitled to give opinion testimony in a court of law. The law does not require opinion testimony; but I would never make a claim/request without its existence.
The second question is: Is there a condition of the premises (or the provider’s rules) that adversely affects the consumer’s handicap?
The third question is: Is there a “reasonable action” that the provider can take that will “accommodate” the consumer?
The one factor in the Act in the housing provider’s favor is that the action requested by the consumer must be reasonable.
To give an exaggerated example, the consumer may prove that he has an emotional need (not desire) to have an elephant present in the home; but no court in the U.S. would say that the provider has to allow the consumer to bring an elephant into the home.
However, you should know that the U.S. Dept. of HUD took a “canary” case all the way to U.S. 10th Circuit and won wherein the condo unit owner’s grandson had the emotional need for the canary. (Both parents of this minor child were killed simultaneously.)
= = = = =
I hope that you find the above brief synopsis useful and a good starting point.
Cheers !
Marty
C. Martin (Marty) Lawyer, III
Florida Bar # 128095
Bay Area Legal Services, Inc.
1302 N. 19th St., Suite # 400
Tampa, FL 33605-5230
(813) 232-1222, Ext.109
FAX: 248-9922
“Preserving Independence, Hope and Dignity”
From: landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Harry Heist
Sent: Tuesday, 18 August, 2015 11:51
To: 'RPPTL Landlord Tenant Committee' landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [RPPTL LandTen] Service Animals, Emotional Support Animals etc.
I have never been at such a loss in my life on one area of law.
While I am not too into learning new law at this point, maybe we can get a small subgroup together.
I had 3 of these already today.
The main issue is what proof can be asked of the applicant/tenant for the service animal need and who is qualified to provide that proof.
I have seen some wild things/forms/info requests coming out of extremely large national and Florida firms who focus on representing associations. I do not think they are legal. I would welcome their input as they are putting their neck out on the line for these associations.
Harry
LAW OFFICES OF
HEIST, WEISSE & WOLK P.A.
PH: 1 800 253 8428
FAX: 1 800 367 9038
"Serving the Property Management Professional"
Website: www.evict.comhttp://www.evict.com/
Email: harry@evict.commailto:harry@evict.com
[cid:image001.png@01D0D9AF.D5EF0520]https://www.facebook.com/pages/Heist-Weisse-Wolk-PA/343965575625870
Visit us on Facebook
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From: landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Cary P. Sabol, Esq.
Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2015 11:40 AM
To: RPPTL Landlord Tenant Committee
Subject: Re: [RPPTL LandTen] Service Animals, Emotional Support Animals etc.
I actually attended a CLE on this issue recently and my guess would be that there probably are not any private attorneys who feel confident in this area of law right now. Even the attorney from the housing commission who gave the presentation acknowledged there is a lot of confusion and conflicting rules when it comes to application of ADA, Fair Housing, Fed. laws and State Statutes. I have found it's almost impossible to give the right answer to a property owner. If one set of laws doesn't apply or allows for a certain course of action, then there always seems to be another set of laws that is the opposite.
I would love to see any CLE's or discussions on the issue because as Harry said, this is not going away.
Cary
Law Offices of Cary P. Sabol
P.O. Box 15981 | West Palm Beach | Florida | 33416
Office: (561) 413-4449
Cell: (561) 281-2744
Fax: (888) 316-2881
.
THIS IS AN ATTEMPT TO COLLECT A DEBT AND ANY INFORMATION OBTAINED WILL BE USED FOR THAT PURPOSE. THIS IS A COMMUNICATION FROM A DEBT COLLECTOR.
IRS Circular 230 Notice: Pursuant to recently enacted U.S. Treasury Department Regulations, we are now required to advise you that, unless otherwise expressly indicated, any federal tax advice expressed above was neither written nor intended by the sender or this firm to be used and cannot be used by any taxpayer for the purpose of avoiding penalties that may be imposed under U.S. tax law. If any person uses or refers to any such tax advice in promoting, marketing or recommending a partnership or other entity, investment plan or arrangement to any taxpayer, then the advice should be considered to have been written to support the promotion or marketing by a person other than the sender or this firm of that transaction or matter, and such taxpayer should seek advice based on the taxpayer's particular circumstances from an independent tax advisor.
Confidentiality Notice: This electronic mail transmission is intended for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential information belonging to the sender which is protected by the attorney-client privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender immediately by e-mail and delete the original message. Thank you for your cooperation.
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [RPPTL LandTen] Service Animals, Emotional Support Animals
etc.
From: Jariel Bortnick <jariel.bortnick@gmail.commailto:jariel.bortnick@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, August 18, 2015 10:58 am
To: RPPTL Landlord Tenant Committee <landten@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org>
To start, maybe we could do a section CLE on the topic?
Jariel
On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 10:36 AM, Harry Heist <harry@evict.commailto:harry@evict.com> wrote:
We need an attorney who REALLY knows this law inside and out for referrals for questions.
We are buried in questions and requests that we cannot answer or are uncomfortable in answering.
We just saw a Florida case the other day where a Florida attorney’s blatant bad advice cost an association over 20K
Never in 25 years have I seen this. It is totally out of control.
We have an attorney we refer all the time in Georgia but we are looking for one who knows this law inside and out in Florida and is prepared to go out on a limb and actually answer questions.
You all probably know we have a LOT of clients. This could be good opportunity for someone who really knows the law, is keeping up on it 100% and can give a solid answer.
This stuff is NOT going away.
Harry
LAW OFFICES OF
HEIST, WEISSE & WOLK P.A.
PH: 1 800 253 8428tel:1%20800%20253%208428
FAX: 1 800 367 9038tel:1%20800%20367%209038
"Serving the Property Management Professional"
Website: www.evict.comhttp://www.evict.com/
Email: harry@evict.commailto:harry@evict.com
[cid:image001.png@01D0D9AF.D5EF0520]https://www.facebook.com/pages/Heist-Weisse-Wolk-PA/343965575625870
Visit us on Facebook
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landten mailing list
landten@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org
http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/landten
--
Jariel Bortnick
561.703.1155
landten mailing list
landten@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org
http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/landten
Thank you Marty,
For the record, I am not advocating for or against service animals. We all just need firm advice we can safely give. It is exploding in college towns right now as the students are all getting prescriptions from their doctors.
I would like the big firms who work for all the associations to chime in as they take a very hard line approach with the person requesting the service animals and are causing us a lot of problems and liability to the unit owners and their property managers.
If there is enough interest, I can put some pressure on the National Apartment Association and the National Multihousing Council and FAR can pressure NAR. It is almost an emergency situation and then add to that the dog exclusions in all the homeowner’s insurance policies. A clear legislative fix is needed ASAP.
Harry
LAW OFFICES OF
HEIST, WEISSE & WOLK P.A.
PH: 1 800 253 8428
FAX: 1 800 367 9038
"Serving the Property Management Professional"
Website: http://www.evict.com/ www.evict.com
Email: mailto:harry@evict.com harry@evict.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Heist-Weisse-Wolk-PA/343965575625870
Visit us on Facebook
THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS CONFIDENTIAL, ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGED, AND INTENDED FOR THE PERSONS NAMED ABOVE ONLY. ALL OTHER USE, COPYING, OR DISTRIBUTION IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED.
From: landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Martin Lawyer
Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2015 12:39 PM
To: RPPTL Landlord Tenant Committee
Subject: Re: [RPPTL LandTen] Service Animals, Emotional Support Animals etc.
Dear Harry (and others):
I can provide the perspective of the tenant/consumer of housing services in the context of the U.S. Fair Housing Act as amended in 1988 (signed into law by President Ronald Reagan).
The fact you most need to know about the “animal” situation is that the law’s focus is on the person -- not the animal. Thus, a landlord’s or HOA’s prohibition and regulation of “pets” is fairly well useless in defense of claims under the Act.
The Act is found at 42 U.S.C. §§ 3601 et sequitur.
For your purposes, the operative statutes are § 3602(h) (definition of “handicap”) and § 3604(f) (special rights of persons with “handicaps”). I have attached formatted versions of both statutes.
You also need to recognize that the Act does not protect persons with “disability”. It protects persons with “handicap”. “Handicap” is a much broader, more inclusive category. If you have trouble rationalizing this, remember that with the “Education of All Children’s Handicap Act”, kids who are “gifted” and in honors classes are considered “handicapped” requiring special educational adjustments.
Thus, the first question of proof is: Does the consumer have a “handicap” that is recognized by a person entitled to give opinion testimony in a court of law. The law does not require opinion testimony; but I would never make a claim/request without its existence.
The second question is: Is there a condition of the premises (or the provider’s rules) that adversely affects the consumer’s handicap?
The third question is: Is there a “reasonable action” that the provider can take that will “accommodate” the consumer?
The one factor in the Act in the housing provider’s favor is that the action requested by the consumer must be reasonable.
To give an exaggerated example, the consumer may prove that he has an emotional need (not desire) to have an elephant present in the home; but no court in the U.S. would say that the provider has to allow the consumer to bring an elephant into the home.
However, you should know that the U.S. Dept. of HUD took a “canary” case all the way to U.S. 10th Circuit and won wherein the condo unit owner’s grandson had the emotional need for the canary. (Both parents of this minor child were killed simultaneously.)
= = = = =
I hope that you find the above brief synopsis useful and a good starting point.
Cheers !
Marty
C. Martin (Marty) Lawyer, III
Florida Bar # 128095
Bay Area Legal Services, Inc.
1302 N. 19th St., Suite # 400
Tampa, FL 33605-5230
(813) 232-1222, Ext.109
FAX: 248-9922
“Preserving Independence, Hope and Dignity”
From: landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Harry Heist
Sent: Tuesday, 18 August, 2015 11:51
To: 'RPPTL Landlord Tenant Committee' landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [RPPTL LandTen] Service Animals, Emotional Support Animals etc.
I have never been at such a loss in my life on one area of law.
While I am not too into learning new law at this point, maybe we can get a small subgroup together.
I had 3 of these already today.
The main issue is what proof can be asked of the applicant/tenant for the service animal need and who is qualified to provide that proof.
I have seen some wild things/forms/info requests coming out of extremely large national and Florida firms who focus on representing associations. I do not think they are legal. I would welcome their input as they are putting their neck out on the line for these associations.
Harry
LAW OFFICES OF
HEIST, WEISSE & WOLK P.A.
PH: 1 800 253 8428
FAX: 1 800 367 9038
"Serving the Property Management Professional"
Website: http://www.evict.com/ www.evict.com
Email: mailto:harry@evict.com harry@evict.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Heist-Weisse-Wolk-PA/343965575625870
Visit us on Facebook
THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS CONFIDENTIAL, ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGED, AND INTENDED FOR THE PERSONS NAMED ABOVE ONLY. ALL OTHER USE, COPYING, OR DISTRIBUTION IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED.
From: landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Cary P. Sabol, Esq.
Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2015 11:40 AM
To: RPPTL Landlord Tenant Committee
Subject: Re: [RPPTL LandTen] Service Animals, Emotional Support Animals etc.
I actually attended a CLE on this issue recently and my guess would be that there probably are not any private attorneys who feel confident in this area of law right now. Even the attorney from the housing commission who gave the presentation acknowledged there is a lot of confusion and conflicting rules when it comes to application of ADA, Fair Housing, Fed. laws and State Statutes. I have found it's almost impossible to give the right answer to a property owner. If one set of laws doesn't apply or allows for a certain course of action, then there always seems to be another set of laws that is the opposite.
I would love to see any CLE's or discussions on the issue because as Harry said, this is not going away.
Cary
Law Offices of Cary P. Sabol
P.O. Box 15981 | West Palm Beach | Florida | 33416
Office: (561) 413-4449
Cell: (561) 281-2744
Fax: (888) 316-2881
.
THIS IS AN ATTEMPT TO COLLECT A DEBT AND ANY INFORMATION OBTAINED WILL BE USED FOR THAT PURPOSE. THIS IS A COMMUNICATION FROM A DEBT COLLECTOR.
IRS Circular 230 Notice: Pursuant to recently enacted U.S. Treasury Department Regulations, we are now required to advise you that, unless otherwise expressly indicated, any federal tax advice expressed above was neither written nor intended by the sender or this firm to be used and cannot be used by any taxpayer for the purpose of avoiding penalties that may be imposed under U.S. tax law. If any person uses or refers to any such tax advice in promoting, marketing or recommending a partnership or other entity, investment plan or arrangement to any taxpayer, then the advice should be considered to have been written to support the promotion or marketing by a person other than the sender or this firm of that transaction or matter, and such taxpayer should seek advice based on the taxpayer's particular circumstances from an independent tax advisor.
Confidentiality Notice: This electronic mail transmission is intended for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential information belonging to the sender which is protected by the attorney-client privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender immediately by e-mail and delete the original message. Thank you for your cooperation.
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [RPPTL LandTen] Service Animals, Emotional Support Animals
etc.
From: Jariel Bortnick jariel.bortnick@gmail.com
Date: Tue, August 18, 2015 10:58 am
To: RPPTL Landlord Tenant Committee landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org
To start, maybe we could do a section CLE on the topic?
Jariel
On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 10:36 AM, Harry Heist harry@evict.com wrote:
We need an attorney who REALLY knows this law inside and out for referrals for questions.
We are buried in questions and requests that we cannot answer or are uncomfortable in answering.
We just saw a Florida case the other day where a Florida attorney’s blatant bad advice cost an association over 20K
Never in 25 years have I seen this. It is totally out of control.
We have an attorney we refer all the time in Georgia but we are looking for one who knows this law inside and out in Florida and is prepared to go out on a limb and actually answer questions.
You all probably know we have a LOT of clients. This could be good opportunity for someone who really knows the law, is keeping up on it 100% and can give a solid answer.
This stuff is NOT going away.
Harry
LAW OFFICES OF
HEIST, WEISSE & WOLK P.A.
PH: 1 800 253 8428 tel:1%20800%20253%208428
FAX: 1 800 367 9038 tel:1%20800%20367%209038
"Serving the Property Management Professional"
Website: http://www.evict.com/ www.evict.com
Email: mailto:harry@evict.com harry@evict.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Heist-Weisse-Wolk-PA/343965575625870
Visit us on Facebook
THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS CONFIDENTIAL, ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGED, AND INTENDED FOR THE PERSONS NAMED ABOVE ONLY. ALL OTHER USE, COPYING, OR DISTRIBUTION IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED.
landten mailing list
landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org
http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/landten
--
Jariel Bortnick
561.703.1155
landten mailing list
landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org
http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/landten
Harry:
My first case in Federal Court was an ADA case. I worked with Kathy and BJ Ownen on Fair Housing cases, before I concentrated more on subsidized housing. My first wife lost her sight and she had a guide dog. I fought for her rights in the early 1980. It was a hard fight but I knew this area of law very well at one time. She was prohibited from bringing her guide dog into Parrott World in Miami and the local chapter of the Lighthouse backed Parrott Jungle. I experience the benefit and independence she obtained by having a guide dog so I was like a dog on a bone when it came to guide dogs. Now it is 35 years later and the pendulum has swung the wrong way. What is happening is far beyond the intent of the law and I don’t blame the law I blame the people that are abusing the law. It makes it real bad for those who actually need a companion dog and if the MD’s just write scripts for service animals it will not be long when the legislature will react negatively hurting those who need companions. I could do what you are asking with some additional training. The question I have is there any money in it? Would it be worth my time to change my practice? At this point in time my position on “for or against” companion dogs is “it depends on the case, but err on the side of caution. As Cary Sabol said, it is complicated and fluid and very delicate.
I think it would be a good change of pace too.
Leonard P. Cabral.
From: landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Harry Heist
Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2015 1:08 PM
To: 'RPPTL Landlord Tenant Committee' landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [RPPTL LandTen] Service Animals, Emotional Support Animals etc.
Thank you Marty,
For the record, I am not advocating for or against service animals. We all just need firm advice we can safely give. It is exploding in college towns right now as the students are all getting prescriptions from their doctors.
I would like the big firms who work for all the associations to chime in as they take a very hard line approach with the person requesting the service animals and are causing us a lot of problems and liability to the unit owners and their property managers.
If there is enough interest, I can put some pressure on the National Apartment Association and the National Multihousing Council and FAR can pressure NAR. It is almost an emergency situation and then add to that the dog exclusions in all the homeowner’s insurance policies. A clear legislative fix is needed ASAP.
Harry
LAW OFFICES OF
HEIST, WEISSE & WOLK P.A.
PH: 1 800 253 8428
FAX: 1 800 367 9038
"Serving the Property Management Professional"
Website: www.evict.comhttp://www.evict.com/
Email: harry@evict.commailto:harry@evict.com
[cid:image001.png@01D0DA0C.0D49FDC0]https://www.facebook.com/pages/Heist-Weisse-Wolk-PA/343965575625870
Visit us on Facebook
THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS CONFIDENTIAL, ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGED, AND INTENDED FOR THE PERSONS NAMED ABOVE ONLY. ALL OTHER USE, COPYING, OR DISTRIBUTION IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED.
From: landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Martin Lawyer
Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2015 12:39 PM
To: RPPTL Landlord Tenant Committee
Subject: Re: [RPPTL LandTen] Service Animals, Emotional Support Animals etc.
Dear Harry (and others):
I can provide the perspective of the tenant/consumer of housing services in the context of the U.S. Fair Housing Act as amended in 1988 (signed into law by President Ronald Reagan).
The fact you most need to know about the “animal” situation is that the law’s focus is on the person -- not the animal. Thus, a landlord’s or HOA’s prohibition and regulation of “pets” is fairly well useless in defense of claims under the Act.
The Act is found at 42 U.S.C. §§ 3601 et sequitur.
For your purposes, the operative statutes are § 3602(h) (definition of “handicap”) and § 3604(f) (special rights of persons with “handicaps”). I have attached formatted versions of both statutes.
You also need to recognize that the Act does not protect persons with “disability”. It protects persons with “handicap”. “Handicap” is a much broader, more inclusive category. If you have trouble rationalizing this, remember that with the “Education of All Children’s Handicap Act”, kids who are “gifted” and in honors classes are considered “handicapped” requiring special educational adjustments.
Thus, the first question of proof is: Does the consumer have a “handicap” that is recognized by a person entitled to give opinion testimony in a court of law. The law does not require opinion testimony; but I would never make a claim/request without its existence.
The second question is: Is there a condition of the premises (or the provider’s rules) that adversely affects the consumer’s handicap?
The third question is: Is there a “reasonable action” that the provider can take that will “accommodate” the consumer?
The one factor in the Act in the housing provider’s favor is that the action requested by the consumer must be reasonable.
To give an exaggerated example, the consumer may prove that he has an emotional need (not desire) to have an elephant present in the home; but no court in the U.S. would say that the provider has to allow the consumer to bring an elephant into the home.
However, you should know that the U.S. Dept. of HUD took a “canary” case all the way to U.S. 10th Circuit and won wherein the condo unit owner’s grandson had the emotional need for the canary. (Both parents of this minor child were killed simultaneously.)
= = = = =
I hope that you find the above brief synopsis useful and a good starting point.
Cheers !
Marty
C. Martin (Marty) Lawyer, III
Florida Bar # 128095
Bay Area Legal Services, Inc.
1302 N. 19th St., Suite # 400
Tampa, FL 33605-5230
(813) 232-1222, Ext.109
FAX: 248-9922
“Preserving Independence, Hope and Dignity”
From: landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Harry Heist
Sent: Tuesday, 18 August, 2015 11:51
To: 'RPPTL Landlord Tenant Committee' <landten@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org>
Subject: Re: [RPPTL LandTen] Service Animals, Emotional Support Animals etc.
I have never been at such a loss in my life on one area of law.
While I am not too into learning new law at this point, maybe we can get a small subgroup together.
I had 3 of these already today.
The main issue is what proof can be asked of the applicant/tenant for the service animal need and who is qualified to provide that proof.
I have seen some wild things/forms/info requests coming out of extremely large national and Florida firms who focus on representing associations. I do not think they are legal. I would welcome their input as they are putting their neck out on the line for these associations.
Harry
LAW OFFICES OF
HEIST, WEISSE & WOLK P.A.
PH: 1 800 253 8428
FAX: 1 800 367 9038
"Serving the Property Management Professional"
Website: www.evict.comhttp://www.evict.com/
Email: harry@evict.commailto:harry@evict.com
[cid:image001.png@01D0DA0C.0D49FDC0]https://www.facebook.com/pages/Heist-Weisse-Wolk-PA/343965575625870
Visit us on Facebook
THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS CONFIDENTIAL, ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGED, AND INTENDED FOR THE PERSONS NAMED ABOVE ONLY. ALL OTHER USE, COPYING, OR DISTRIBUTION IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED.
From: landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Cary P. Sabol, Esq.
Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2015 11:40 AM
To: RPPTL Landlord Tenant Committee
Subject: Re: [RPPTL LandTen] Service Animals, Emotional Support Animals etc.
I actually attended a CLE on this issue recently and my guess would be that there probably are not any private attorneys who feel confident in this area of law right now. Even the attorney from the housing commission who gave the presentation acknowledged there is a lot of confusion and conflicting rules when it comes to application of ADA, Fair Housing, Fed. laws and State Statutes. I have found it's almost impossible to give the right answer to a property owner. If one set of laws doesn't apply or allows for a certain course of action, then there always seems to be another set of laws that is the opposite.
I would love to see any CLE's or discussions on the issue because as Harry said, this is not going away.
Cary
Law Offices of Cary P. Sabol
P.O. Box 15981 | West Palm Beach | Florida | 33416
Office: (561) 413-4449
Cell: (561) 281-2744
Fax: (888) 316-2881
.
THIS IS AN ATTEMPT TO COLLECT A DEBT AND ANY INFORMATION OBTAINED WILL BE USED FOR THAT PURPOSE. THIS IS A COMMUNICATION FROM A DEBT COLLECTOR.
IRS Circular 230 Notice: Pursuant to recently enacted U.S. Treasury Department Regulations, we are now required to advise you that, unless otherwise expressly indicated, any federal tax advice expressed above was neither written nor intended by the sender or this firm to be used and cannot be used by any taxpayer for the purpose of avoiding penalties that may be imposed under U.S. tax law. If any person uses or refers to any such tax advice in promoting, marketing or recommending a partnership or other entity, investment plan or arrangement to any taxpayer, then the advice should be considered to have been written to support the promotion or marketing by a person other than the sender or this firm of that transaction or matter, and such taxpayer should seek advice based on the taxpayer's particular circumstances from an independent tax advisor.
Confidentiality Notice: This electronic mail transmission is intended for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential information belonging to the sender which is protected by the attorney-client privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender immediately by e-mail and delete the original message. Thank you for your cooperation.
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [RPPTL LandTen] Service Animals, Emotional Support Animals
etc.
From: Jariel Bortnick <jariel.bortnick@gmail.commailto:jariel.bortnick@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, August 18, 2015 10:58 am
To: RPPTL Landlord Tenant Committee <landten@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org>
To start, maybe we could do a section CLE on the topic?
Jariel
On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 10:36 AM, Harry Heist <harry@evict.commailto:harry@evict.com> wrote:
We need an attorney who REALLY knows this law inside and out for referrals for questions.
We are buried in questions and requests that we cannot answer or are uncomfortable in answering.
We just saw a Florida case the other day where a Florida attorney’s blatant bad advice cost an association over 20K
Never in 25 years have I seen this. It is totally out of control.
We have an attorney we refer all the time in Georgia but we are looking for one who knows this law inside and out in Florida and is prepared to go out on a limb and actually answer questions.
You all probably know we have a LOT of clients. This could be good opportunity for someone who really knows the law, is keeping up on it 100% and can give a solid answer.
This stuff is NOT going away.
Harry
LAW OFFICES OF
HEIST, WEISSE & WOLK P.A.
PH: 1 800 253 8428tel:1%20800%20253%208428
FAX: 1 800 367 9038tel:1%20800%20367%209038
"Serving the Property Management Professional"
Website: www.evict.comhttp://www.evict.com/
Email: harry@evict.commailto:harry@evict.com
[cid:image001.png@01D0DA0C.0D49FDC0]https://www.facebook.com/pages/Heist-Weisse-Wolk-PA/343965575625870
Visit us on Facebook
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561.703.1155
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Maybe not an elephant, but there is a case out there that held a miniature pony qualified as an emotional support animal.
Best regards,
Carlos R. Arias
[Arias Bosinger Law Firm Logo-01]
140 N. Westmonte Dr., Ste. 100A
Altamonte Springs, Florida 32714
Tel: 407.636.2549
Fax: 321.280.2489
www.ABLawFL.comhttp://www.ablawfl.com/
In compliance with the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, this law firm is a debt collector and may be attempting to collect a debt. Any information provided will be used for that purpose.
From: landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Martin Lawyer
Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2015 12:39 PM
To: RPPTL Landlord Tenant Committee landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [RPPTL LandTen] Service Animals, Emotional Support Animals etc.
Dear Harry (and others):
I can provide the perspective of the tenant/consumer of housing services in the context of the U.S. Fair Housing Act as amended in 1988 (signed into law by President Ronald Reagan).
The fact you most need to know about the “animal” situation is that the law’s focus is on the person -- not the animal. Thus, a landlord’s or HOA’s prohibition and regulation of “pets” is fairly well useless in defense of claims under the Act.
The Act is found at 42 U.S.C. §§ 3601 et sequitur.
For your purposes, the operative statutes are § 3602(h) (definition of “handicap”) and § 3604(f) (special rights of persons with “handicaps”). I have attached formatted versions of both statutes.
You also need to recognize that the Act does not protect persons with “disability”. It protects persons with “handicap”. “Handicap” is a much broader, more inclusive category. If you have trouble rationalizing this, remember that with the “Education of All Children’s Handicap Act”, kids who are “gifted” and in honors classes are considered “handicapped” requiring special educational adjustments.
Thus, the first question of proof is: Does the consumer have a “handicap” that is recognized by a person entitled to give opinion testimony in a court of law. The law does not require opinion testimony; but I would never make a claim/request without its existence.
The second question is: Is there a condition of the premises (or the provider’s rules) that adversely affects the consumer’s handicap?
The third question is: Is there a “reasonable action” that the provider can take that will “accommodate” the consumer?
The one factor in the Act in the housing provider’s favor is that the action requested by the consumer must be reasonable.
To give an exaggerated example, the consumer may prove that he has an emotional need (not desire) to have an elephant present in the home; but no court in the U.S. would say that the provider has to allow the consumer to bring an elephant into the home.
However, you should know that the U.S. Dept. of HUD took a “canary” case all the way to U.S. 10th Circuit and won wherein the condo unit owner’s grandson had the emotional need for the canary. (Both parents of this minor child were killed simultaneously.)
= = = = =
I hope that you find the above brief synopsis useful and a good starting point.
Cheers !
Marty
C. Martin (Marty) Lawyer, III
Florida Bar # 128095
Bay Area Legal Services, Inc.
1302 N. 19th St., Suite # 400
Tampa, FL 33605-5230
(813) 232-1222, Ext.109
FAX: 248-9922
“Preserving Independence, Hope and Dignity”
From: landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Harry Heist
Sent: Tuesday, 18 August, 2015 11:51
To: 'RPPTL Landlord Tenant Committee' <landten@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org>
Subject: Re: [RPPTL LandTen] Service Animals, Emotional Support Animals etc.
I have never been at such a loss in my life on one area of law.
While I am not too into learning new law at this point, maybe we can get a small subgroup together.
I had 3 of these already today.
The main issue is what proof can be asked of the applicant/tenant for the service animal need and who is qualified to provide that proof.
I have seen some wild things/forms/info requests coming out of extremely large national and Florida firms who focus on representing associations. I do not think they are legal. I would welcome their input as they are putting their neck out on the line for these associations.
Harry
LAW OFFICES OF
HEIST, WEISSE & WOLK P.A.
PH: 1 800 253 8428
FAX: 1 800 367 9038
"Serving the Property Management Professional"
Website: www.evict.comhttp://www.evict.com/
Email: harry@evict.commailto:harry@evict.com
[cid:image003.png@01D0DA77.1B13CBF0]https://www.facebook.com/pages/Heist-Weisse-Wolk-PA/343965575625870
Visit us on Facebook
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From: landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Cary P. Sabol, Esq.
Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2015 11:40 AM
To: RPPTL Landlord Tenant Committee
Subject: Re: [RPPTL LandTen] Service Animals, Emotional Support Animals etc.
I actually attended a CLE on this issue recently and my guess would be that there probably are not any private attorneys who feel confident in this area of law right now. Even the attorney from the housing commission who gave the presentation acknowledged there is a lot of confusion and conflicting rules when it comes to application of ADA, Fair Housing, Fed. laws and State Statutes. I have found it's almost impossible to give the right answer to a property owner. If one set of laws doesn't apply or allows for a certain course of action, then there always seems to be another set of laws that is the opposite.
I would love to see any CLE's or discussions on the issue because as Harry said, this is not going away.
Cary
Law Offices of Cary P. Sabol
P.O. Box 15981 | West Palm Beach | Florida | 33416
Office: (561) 413-4449
Cell: (561) 281-2744
Fax: (888) 316-2881
.
THIS IS AN ATTEMPT TO COLLECT A DEBT AND ANY INFORMATION OBTAINED WILL BE USED FOR THAT PURPOSE. THIS IS A COMMUNICATION FROM A DEBT COLLECTOR.
IRS Circular 230 Notice: Pursuant to recently enacted U.S. Treasury Department Regulations, we are now required to advise you that, unless otherwise expressly indicated, any federal tax advice expressed above was neither written nor intended by the sender or this firm to be used and cannot be used by any taxpayer for the purpose of avoiding penalties that may be imposed under U.S. tax law. If any person uses or refers to any such tax advice in promoting, marketing or recommending a partnership or other entity, investment plan or arrangement to any taxpayer, then the advice should be considered to have been written to support the promotion or marketing by a person other than the sender or this firm of that transaction or matter, and such taxpayer should seek advice based on the taxpayer's particular circumstances from an independent tax advisor.
Confidentiality Notice: This electronic mail transmission is intended for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential information belonging to the sender which is protected by the attorney-client privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender immediately by e-mail and delete the original message. Thank you for your cooperation.
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [RPPTL LandTen] Service Animals, Emotional Support Animals
etc.
From: Jariel Bortnick <jariel.bortnick@gmail.commailto:jariel.bortnick@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, August 18, 2015 10:58 am
To: RPPTL Landlord Tenant Committee <landten@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org>
To start, maybe we could do a section CLE on the topic?
Jariel
On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 10:36 AM, Harry Heist <harry@evict.commailto:harry@evict.com> wrote:
We need an attorney who REALLY knows this law inside and out for referrals for questions.
We are buried in questions and requests that we cannot answer or are uncomfortable in answering.
We just saw a Florida case the other day where a Florida attorney’s blatant bad advice cost an association over 20K
Never in 25 years have I seen this. It is totally out of control.
We have an attorney we refer all the time in Georgia but we are looking for one who knows this law inside and out in Florida and is prepared to go out on a limb and actually answer questions.
You all probably know we have a LOT of clients. This could be good opportunity for someone who really knows the law, is keeping up on it 100% and can give a solid answer.
This stuff is NOT going away.
Harry
LAW OFFICES OF
HEIST, WEISSE & WOLK P.A.
PH: 1 800 253 8428tel:1%20800%20253%208428
FAX: 1 800 367 9038tel:1%20800%20367%209038
"Serving the Property Management Professional"
Website: www.evict.comhttp://www.evict.com/
Email: harry@evict.commailto:harry@evict.com
[cid:image003.png@01D0DA77.1B13CBF0]https://www.facebook.com/pages/Heist-Weisse-Wolk-PA/343965575625870
Visit us on Facebook
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561.703.1155
landten mailing list
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Does anyone know if this is the latest HUD bulletin on this subject?
Leonard Cabral
From: landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Lainie Simon
Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2015 11:58 AM
To: RPPTL Landlord Tenant Committee landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [RPPTL LandTen] Service Animals, Emotional Support Animals etc.
I would participate in this. I think that the new Florida statute is problematic, as well, and probably inconsistent with the Fair Housing Act (federal).
Lainie J. Simon, Esq.
185 NW Spanish River Boulevard
Suite 220
Boca Raton, FL 33431
561.445.1361
561.997.6224(fax)
PRIVILEGE AND CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521 and is legally privileged. The contents of this e-mail message and any attachments are intended solely for the party or parties addressed and named in this message. This communication and all attachments, if any, are intended to be and to remain confidential, and it may be subject to the applicable attorney - client and or work product privileges. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, or if this message has been addressed to you in error, please immediately alert the sender by reply e-mail and then delete this message and its attachments. Do not deliver, distribute, or copy this message and or any attachments if you are not the intended recipient. Do not disclose the contents or take any action in reliance upon the information contained in this communication or any attachments. Although this E-mail and any attachments are believed to be free of any virus or other defect that might affect any computer system into which it is received and opened, it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that it is virus free and no responsibility is accepted by the sender for damage arising in any way from its use.
Ê
On Aug 18, 2015, at 11:51 AM, Harry Heist <harry@evict.commailto:harry@evict.com> wrote:
I have never been at such a loss in my life on one area of law.
While I am not too into learning new law at this point, maybe we can get a small subgroup together.
I had 3 of these already today.
The main issue is what proof can be asked of the applicant/tenant for the service animal need and who is qualified to provide that proof.
I have seen some wild things/forms/info requests coming out of extremely large national and Florida firms who focus on representing associations. I do not think they are legal. I would welcome their input as they are putting their neck out on the line for these associations.
Harry
LAW OFFICES OF
HEIST, WEISSE & WOLK P.A.
PH: 1 800 253 8428
FAX: 1 800 367 9038
"Serving the Property Management Professional"
Website: www.evict.comhttp://www.evict.com/
Email: harry@evict.commailto:harry@evict.com
<image002.png>https://www.facebook.com/pages/Heist-Weisse-Wolk-PA/343965575625870
Visit us on Facebook
THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS CONFIDENTIAL, ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGED, AND INTENDED FOR THE PERSONS NAMED ABOVE ONLY. ALL OTHER USE, COPYING, OR DISTRIBUTION IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED.
From: landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Cary P. Sabol, Esq.
Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2015 11:40 AM
To: RPPTL Landlord Tenant Committee
Subject: Re: [RPPTL LandTen] Service Animals, Emotional Support Animals etc.
I actually attended a CLE on this issue recently and my guess would be that there probably are not any private attorneys who feel confident in this area of law right now. Even the attorney from the housing commission who gave the presentation acknowledged there is a lot of confusion and conflicting rules when it comes to application of ADA, Fair Housing, Fed. laws and State Statutes. I have found it's almost impossible to give the right answer to a property owner. If one set of laws doesn't apply or allows for a certain course of action, then there always seems to be another set of laws that is the opposite.
I would love to see any CLE's or discussions on the issue because as Harry said, this is not going away.
Cary
Law Offices of Cary P. Sabol
P.O. Box 15981 | West Palm Beach | Florida | 33416
Office: (561) 413-4449
Cell: (561) 281-2744
Fax: (888) 316-2881
.
THIS IS AN ATTEMPT TO COLLECT A DEBT AND ANY INFORMATION OBTAINED WILL BE USED FOR THAT PURPOSE. THIS IS A COMMUNICATION FROM A DEBT COLLECTOR.
IRS Circular 230 Notice: Pursuant to recently enacted U.S. Treasury Department Regulations, we are now required to advise you that, unless otherwise expressly indicated, any federal tax advice expressed above was neither written nor intended by the sender or this firm to be used and cannot be used by any taxpayer for the purpose of avoiding penalties that may be imposed under U.S. tax law. If any person uses or refers to any such tax advice in promoting, marketing or recommending a partnership or other entity, investment plan or arrangement to any taxpayer, then the advice should be considered to have been written to support the promotion or marketing by a person other than the sender or this firm of that transaction or matter, and such taxpayer should seek advice based on the taxpayer's particular circumstances from an independent tax advisor.
Confidentiality Notice: This electronic mail transmission is intended for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential information belonging to the sender which is protected by the attorney-client privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender immediately by e-mail and delete the original message. Thank you for your cooperation.
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [RPPTL LandTen] Service Animals, Emotional Support Animals
etc.
From: Jariel Bortnick <jariel.bortnick@gmail.commailto:jariel.bortnick@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, August 18, 2015 10:58 am
To: RPPTL Landlord Tenant Committee <landten@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org>
To start, maybe we could do a section CLE on the topic?
Jariel
On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 10:36 AM, Harry Heist <harry@evict.commailto:harry@evict.com> wrote:
We need an attorney who REALLY knows this law inside and out for referrals for questions.
We are buried in questions and requests that we cannot answer or are uncomfortable in answering.
We just saw a Florida case the other day where a Florida attorney’s blatant bad advice cost an association over 20K
Never in 25 years have I seen this. It is totally out of control.
We have an attorney we refer all the time in Georgia but we are looking for one who knows this law inside and out in Florida and is prepared to go out on a limb and actually answer questions.
You all probably know we have a LOT of clients. This could be good opportunity for someone who really knows the law, is keeping up on it 100% and can give a solid answer.
This stuff is NOT going away.
Harry
LAW OFFICES OF
HEIST, WEISSE & WOLK P.A.
PH: 1 800 253 8428tel:1%20800%20253%208428
FAX: 1 800 367 9038tel:1%20800%20367%209038
"Serving the Property Management Professional"
Website: www.evict.comhttp://www.evict.com/
Email: harry@evict.commailto:harry@evict.com
<image003.png>https://www.facebook.com/pages/Heist-Weisse-Wolk-PA/343965575625870
Visit us on Facebook
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561.703.1155
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