[RPPTL LandTen] Witness Requirements
Question for the group.
2 year residential lease. Tenant is 15 months in.
Lease signed electronically with no witnesses.
Tenant wants out.
Any case law to overcome the witness requirement of 689.01?
It would be great if we get this law changed. I would be happy to assist in any way. With electronic signatures, it is really becoming an issue.
Harry
LAW OFFICES OF
HEIST, WEISSE & WOLK P.A.
PH: 1 800 253 8428
FAX: 1 800 367 9038
"Serving the Property Management Professional"
Website: http://www.evict.com/ www.evict.com
Email: mailto:harry@evict.com harry@evict.com
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Not directly on point but the excerpt below from Skylake should point you in the right direction
District Court of Appeal of Florida,
Third District.
SKYLAKE INSURANCE AGENCY, INC.https://m.next.westlaw.com/s/r?q=advanced%3a+OAID%285007837650%29&saveJuris=False&ct=BUSINESS-INVESTIGATOR&startIndex=1&contextData=%28sc.Default%29&categoryPageUrl=Home%2fCompanyInvestigator&oc=document&transitionType=DocumentItem, Appellant,
v.
NMB PLAZA, LLC, Appellee.
No. 3D07–454.
Oct. 28, 2009.Rehearing Denied Dec. 28, 2009
The next question we address is whether the landlord should be estopped from relying on the two-witness rule of section https://m.next.westlaw.com/l/d/FullText?ft=L&pn=1000006&c=FLSTS689.01&od=Iebd002d3c3d211deabe0d03f2b83b8a4&rt=LQ&oc=document&transitionType=DocumentItem&contextData=%28sc.Search%29 689https://m.next.westlaw.com/d/Iebd002d3c3d211deabe0d03f2b83b8a4/v/FullText.html?ls=Search&oc=Search%20Result&transitionType=SearchItem&contextData=%28sc.Search%29&np=Search%2Fv1%2Fresults%2Fnavigation%2Fi0ad73aa50000016cda3878547cbe7f72%3FNav%3DCASE%26fragmentIdentifier%3DIebd002d3c3d211deabe0d03f2b83b8a4%26startIndex%3D1%26transitionType%3DSearchItem%26contextData%3D%2528sc.Search%2529%26originationContext%3DSearch%2520Result&l=CASE&r=1&sid=i0ad73aa50000016cda3878547cbe7f72&sessionScopeId=22b1e2680e003cdda1a20ee36992efb03b115f8bff5a5966828aa4db6b37d938#co_searchTerm_ID0ENKAG[https://ia.next.westlaw.com/StaticContent_45.4.2004/images/nextTerm.gif]https://m.next.westlaw.com/l/d/FullText?ft=L&pn=1000006&c=FLSTS689.01&od=Iebd002d3c3d211deabe0d03f2b83b8a4&rt=LQ&oc=document&transitionType=DocumentItem&contextData=%28sc.Search%29.https://m.next.westlaw.com/l/d/FullText?ft=L&pn=1000006&c=FLSTS689.01&od=Iebd002d3c3d211deabe0d03f2b83b8a4&rt=LQ&oc=document&transitionType=DocumentItem&contextData=%28sc.Search%2901https://m.next.westlaw.com/d/Iebd002d3c3d211deabe0d03f2b83b8a4/v/FullText.html?ls=Search&oc=Search%20Result&transitionType=SearchItem&contextData=%28sc.Search%29&np=Search%2Fv1%2Fresults%2Fnavigation%2Fi0ad73aa50000016cda3878547cbe7f72%3FNav%3DCASE%26fragmentIdentifier%3DIebd002d3c3d211deabe0d03f2b83b8a4%26startIndex%3D1%26transitionType%3DSearchItem%26contextData%3D%2528sc.Search%2529%26originationContext%3DSearch%2520Result&l=CASE&r=1&sid=i0ad73aa50000016cda3878547cbe7f72&sessionScopeId=22b1e2680e003cdda1a20ee36992efb03b115f8bff5a5966828aa4db6b37d938#co_searchTerm_ID0E3KAG[https://ia.next.westlaw.com/StaticContent_45.4.2004/images/nextTerm.gif]https://m.next.westlaw.com/l/d/FullText?ft=L&pn=1000006&c=FLSTS689.01&od=Iebd002d3c3d211deabe0d03f2b83b8a4&rt=LQ&oc=document&transitionType=DocumentItem&contextData=%28sc.Search%29https://m.next.westlaw.com/l/d/FullText?ft=L&pn=1000006&c=FLSTS689.01&od=Iebd002d3c3d211deabe0d03f2b83b8a4&rt=LQ&oc=document&transitionType=DocumentItem&contextData=%28sc.Search%29 because the landlord drafted the lease, failed to provide signature lines for the landlord's signature, and failed to have Mr. Hadad's signature witnessed when Mr. Hadad signed the document. Amicus explains that under some circumstances, estoppel will be applied to preclude a party from invoking section https://m.next.westlaw.com/l/d/FullText?ft=L&pn=1000006&c=FLSTS689.01&od=Iebd002d3c3d211deabe0d03f2b83b8a4&rt=LQ&oc=document&transitionType=DocumentItem&contextData=%28sc.Search%29 689https://m.next.westlaw.com/d/Iebd002d3c3d211deabe0d03f2b83b8a4/v/FullText.html?ls=Search&oc=Search%20Result&transitionType=SearchItem&contextData=%28sc.Search%29&np=Search%2Fv1%2Fresults%2Fnavigation%2Fi0ad73aa50000016cda3878547cbe7f72%3FNav%3DCASE%26fragmentIdentifier%3DIebd002d3c3d211deabe0d03f2b83b8a4%26startIndex%3D1%26transitionType%3DSearchItem%26contextData%3D%2528sc.Search%2529%26originationContext%3DSearch%2520Result&l=CASE&r=1&sid=i0ad73aa50000016cda3878547cbe7f72&sessionScopeId=22b1e2680e003cdda1a20ee36992efb03b115f8bff5a5966828aa4db6b37d938#co_searchTerm_ID0E6KAG[https://ia.next.westlaw.com/StaticContent_45.4.2004/images/nextTerm.gif]https://m.next.westlaw.com/l/d/FullText?ft=L&pn=1000006&c=FLSTS689.01&od=Iebd002d3c3d211deabe0d03f2b83b8a4&rt=LQ&oc=document&transitionType=DocumentItem&contextData=%28sc.Search%29.https://m.next.westlaw.com/l/d/FullText?ft=L&pn=1000006&c=FLSTS689.01&od=Iebd002d3c3d211deabe0d03f2b83b8a4&rt=LQ&oc=document&transitionType=DocumentItem&contextData=%28sc.Search%2901https://m.next.westlaw.com/d/Iebd002d3c3d211deabe0d03f2b83b8a4/v/FullText.html?ls=Search&oc=Search%20Result&transitionType=SearchItem&contextData=%28sc.Search%29&np=Search%2Fv1%2Fresults%2Fnavigation%2Fi0ad73aa50000016cda3878547cbe7f72%3FNav%3DCASE%26fragmentIdentifier%3DIebd002d3c3d211deabe0d03f2b83b8a4%26startIndex%3D1%26transitionType%3DSearchItem%26contextData%3D%2528sc.Search%2529%26originationContext%3DSearch%2520Result&l=CASE&r=1&sid=i0ad73aa50000016cda3878547cbe7f72&sessionScopeId=22b1e2680e003cdda1a20ee36992efb03b115f8bff5a5966828aa4db6b37d938#co_searchTerm_ID0EELAG[https://ia.next.westlaw.com/StaticContent_45.4.2004/images/nextTerm.gif]https://m.next.westlaw.com/l/d/FullText?ft=L&pn=1000006&c=FLSTS689.01&od=Iebd002d3c3d211deabe0d03f2b83b8a4&rt=LQ&oc=document&transitionType=DocumentItem&contextData=%28sc.Search%29https://m.next.westlaw.com/l/d/FullText?ft=L&pn=1000006&c=FLSTS689.01&od=Iebd002d3c3d211deabe0d03f2b83b8a4&rt=LQ&oc=document&transitionType=DocumentItem&contextData=%28sc.Search%29. In the decided estoppel cases involving leases, the tenanthttps://m.next.westlaw.com/d/Iebd002d3c3d211deabe0d03f2b83b8a4/v/FullText.html?ls=Search&oc=Search%20Result&transitionType=SearchItem&contextData=%28sc.Search%29&np=Search%2Fv1%2Fresults%2Fnavigation%2Fi0ad73aa50000016cda3878547cbe7f72%3FNav%3DCASE%26fragmentIdentifier%3DIebd002d3c3d211deabe0d03f2b83b8a4%26startIndex%3D1%26transitionType%3DSearchItem%26contextData%3D%2528sc.Search%2529%26originationContext%3DSearch%2520Result&l=CASE&r=1&sid=i0ad73aa50000016cda3878547cbe7f72&sessionScopeId=22b1e2680e003cdda1a20ee36992efb03b115f8bff5a5966828aa4db6b37d938#co_searchTerm_ID0EQOAG took possession and the landlord accepted the rent. The Florida Supreme Court said in one such case that the lessors were
estopped from contending that the lease here involved is invalid for the reason that it was executed in the presence of only one subscribing witness.... [The lessors] have accepted benefits under the lease, have placed the lessee in possession, have negotiated to convey the lands subject to the lease, and in an all respects have recognized it as being an effective conveyance, and in equity they ought not to be permitted to disavow it now.
Gill v. Livingston, 158 Fla. 577, 29 So.2d 631, 632 (1947)https://m.next.westlaw.com/l/d/FullText?ft=Y&sn=1947106570&pn=735&od=Iebd002d3c3d211deabe0d03f2b83b8a4&rt=RP&fi=co_pp_sp_735_632&oc=document&transitionType=DocumentItem&contextData=%28sc.Search%29#co_pp_sp_735_632; Taylor v. Rosman, 312 So.2d 239, 241 (Fla. 3d DCA 1975)https://m.next.westlaw.com/l/d/FullText?ft=Y&sn=1975137789&pn=735&od=Iebd002d3c3d211deabe0d03f2b83b8a4&rt=RP&fi=co_pp_sp_735_241&oc=document&transitionType=DocumentItem&contextData=%28sc.Search%29#co_pp_sp_735_241; Arvanetes v. Gilbert, 143 So.2d 825, 826 (Fla. 3d DCA 1962)https://m.next.westlaw.com/l/d/FullText?ft=Y&sn=1962133764&pn=735&od=Iebd002d3c3d211deabe0d03f2b83b8a4&rt=RP&fi=co_pp_sp_735_826&oc=document&transitionType=DocumentItem&contextData=%28sc.Search%29#co_pp_sp_735_826; Lipkin v. Bonita Garden Apartments, Inc., 122 So.2d 623, 624 (Fla. 3d DCA 1960)https://m.next.westlaw.com/l/d/FullText?ft=Y&sn=1960128557&pn=735&od=Iebd002d3c3d211deabe0d03f2b83b8a4&rt=RP&fi=co_pp_sp_735_624&oc=document&transitionType=DocumentItem&contextData=%28sc.Search%29#co_pp_sp_735_624.
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On Aug 28, 2019 5:40 PM, Harry Heist harry@evict.com wrote:
Question for the group.
2 year residential lease. Tenant is 15 months in.
Lease signed electronically with no witnesses.
Tenant wants out.
Any case law to overcome the witness requirement of 689.01?
It would be great if we get this law changed. I would be happy to assist in any way. With electronic signatures, it is really becoming an issue.
Harry
LAW OFFICES OF
HEIST, WEISSE & WOLK P.A.
PH: 1 800 253 8428
FAX: 1 800 367 9038
"Serving the Property Management Professional"
Website: www.evict.comhttp://www.evict.com/
Email: harry@evict.commailto:harry@evict.com
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They can’t break the lease after they took possession. There is case law
for commercial tenants stating that you can terminate prior to obtaining
possession, but there is plenty of case law that won’t allow you to
terminate post-possession.
On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 5:41 PM Harry Heist harry@evict.com wrote:
Question for the group.
2 year residential lease. Tenant is 15 months in.
Lease signed electronically with no witnesses.
Tenant wants out.
Any case law to overcome the witness requirement of 689.01?
It would be great if we get this law changed. I would be happy to assist
in any way. With electronic signatures, it is really becoming an issue.
Harry
*LAW OFFICES OF HEIST, WEISSE & WOLK P.A.PH: 1 800 253 8428FAX: 1 800 367
9038"Serving the Property Management Professional"Website: *
www.evict.com http://www.evict.com/
- Email: *harry@evict.com harry@evict.com
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Harry, you may be aware that the Section is considering supporting a bill to do away with the two witness requirement on leases although I believe this is limited to non-residential leases generally. I have been working on this effort. In that regard, we had a summer intern do some research on Florida cases addressing the two witness requirement for leases and attached is the raw work product she produced.
These cases should help you with your present issue. Tenant should not be able to get out of the Lease.
[cid:image003.jpg@01D51FA2.FDE2A630]
Arthur J. Menor
Partner, Board Certified in Real Estate Law
Fellow, American College of Real Estate Lawyers
Shutts & Bowen LLP
CityPlace Tower, 525 Okeechobee Blvd, Suite 1100 | West Palm Beach, FL 33401
Direct: (561) 650-8510 | Fax: (561) 822-5510 | Cell: (561) 358-1572
E-Mailmailto:AMenor@shutts.com | Biography http://www.shutts.com/lawyer/arthur-j-menor | V-Cardhttp://www.shutts.com/index.php?vcard&id=895 | Websitehttp://www.shutts.com
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From: landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Harry Heist
Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2019 5:37 PM
To: 'RPPTL Landlord Tenant Committee'
Subject: [RPPTL LandTen] Witness Requirements
EXTERNAL: This email originated from outside of the SHUTTS email system. Do not respond, click any links or open any attachments unless you trust the sender and know the content is safe.
Question for the group.
2 year residential lease. Tenant is 15 months in.
Lease signed electronically with no witnesses.
Tenant wants out.
Any case law to overcome the witness requirement of 689.01?
It would be great if we get this law changed. I would be happy to assist in any way. With electronic signatures, it is really becoming an issue.
Harry
LAW OFFICES OF
HEIST, WEISSE & WOLK P.A.
PH: 1 800 253 8428
FAX: 1 800 367 9038
"Serving the Property Management Professional"
Website: www.evict.comhttp://www.evict.com/
Email: harry@evict.commailto:harry@evict.com
[cid:image003.png@01D55DCB.14787300]https://www.facebook.com/pages/Heist-Weisse-Wolk-PA/343965575625870
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I agree with Art, if the tenant took possession, paid rent for 15 months, and enjoyed the benefits of the lease, they're estopped from claiming that the lease is unenforceable for lack of witnesses. I think there are several cases (probably cited in Art's summer associate memo) that say something like that. Looking forward to eliminating the two witness requirement for Florida commercial leases so that leases can all be signed electronically like in other states.
Eric D. Rapkin
Chair, Real Estate Practice Group
Akerman LLP | 350 East Las Olas Boulevard, Suite 1600 | Ft. Lauderdale, FL 33301
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From: landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org On Behalf Of Arthur J. Menor
Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2019 6:05 PM
To: 'RPPTL Landlord Tenant Committee' landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [RPPTL LandTen] Witness Requirements
Harry, you may be aware that the Section is considering supporting a bill to do away with the two witness requirement on leases although I believe this is limited to non-residential leases generally. I have been working on this effort. In that regard, we had a summer intern do some research on Florida cases addressing the two witness requirement for leases and attached is the raw work product she produced.
These cases should help you with your present issue. Tenant should not be able to get out of the Lease.
[cid:image003.jpg@01D51FA2.FDE2A630]
Arthur J. Menor
Partner, Board Certified in Real Estate Law
Fellow, American College of Real Estate Lawyers
Shutts & Bowen LLP
CityPlace Tower, 525 Okeechobee Blvd, Suite 1100 | West Palm Beach, FL 33401
Direct: (561) 650-8510 | Fax: (561) 822-5510 | Cell: (561) 358-1572
E-Mailmailto:AMenor@shutts.com | Biography http://www.shutts.com/lawyer/arthur-j-menor | V-Cardhttp://www.shutts.com/index.php?vcard&id=895 | Websitehttp://www.shutts.com
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From: landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Harry Heist
Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2019 5:37 PM
To: 'RPPTL Landlord Tenant Committee'
Subject: [RPPTL LandTen] Witness Requirements
EXTERNAL: This email originated from outside of the SHUTTS email system. Do not respond, click any links or open any attachments unless you trust the sender and know the content is safe.
Question for the group.
2 year residential lease. Tenant is 15 months in.
Lease signed electronically with no witnesses.
Tenant wants out.
Any case law to overcome the witness requirement of 689.01?
It would be great if we get this law changed. I would be happy to assist in any way. With electronic signatures, it is really becoming an issue.
Harry
LAW OFFICES OF
HEIST, WEISSE & WOLK P.A.
PH: 1 800 253 8428
FAX: 1 800 367 9038
"Serving the Property Management Professional"
Website: www.evict.comhttp://www.evict.com/
Email: harry@evict.commailto:harry@evict.com
[cid:image002.png@01D55DCC.B77AAF40]https://www.facebook.com/pages/Heist-Weisse-Wolk-PA/343965575625870
Visit us on Facebook
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Yes, I am aware of this.
I believe we can get this passed.
I am sure FAR, FAA, NARPM and IREM will be on board.
Let’s do it. It is causing major issues now with e-signatures.
Harry
LAW OFFICES OF
HEIST, WEISSE & WOLK P.A.
PH: 1 800 253 8428
FAX: 1 800 367 9038
"Serving the Property Management Professional"
Website: http://www.evict.com/ www.evict.com
Email: mailto:harry@evict.com harry@evict.com
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From: landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Arthur J. Menor
Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2019 6:05 PM
To: 'RPPTL Landlord Tenant Committee'
Subject: Re: [RPPTL LandTen] Witness Requirements
Harry, you may be aware that the Section is considering supporting a bill to do away with the two witness requirement on leases although I believe this is limited to non-residential leases generally. I have been working on this effort. In that regard, we had a summer intern do some research on Florida cases addressing the two witness requirement for leases and attached is the raw work product she produced.
These cases should help you with your present issue. Tenant should not be able to get out of the Lease.
cid:image003.jpg@01D51FA2.FDE2A630
Arthur J. Menor
Partner, Board Certified in Real Estate Law
Fellow, American College of Real Estate Lawyers
Shutts & Bowen LLP
CityPlace Tower, 525 Okeechobee Blvd, Suite 1100 | West Palm Beach, FL 33401
Direct: (561) 650-8510 | Fax: (561) 822-5510 | Cell: (561) 358-1572
mailto:AMenor@shutts.com E-Mail | http://www.shutts.com/lawyer/arthur-j-menor Biography | http://www.shutts.com/index.php?vcard&id=895 V-Card | http://www.shutts.com Website
Please consider the environment before printing this email
From: landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Harry Heist
Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2019 5:37 PM
To: 'RPPTL Landlord Tenant Committee'
Subject: [RPPTL LandTen] Witness Requirements
EXTERNAL: This email originated from outside of the SHUTTS email system. Do not respond, click any links or open any attachments unless you trust the sender and know the content is safe.
Question for the group.
2 year residential lease. Tenant is 15 months in.
Lease signed electronically with no witnesses.
Tenant wants out.
Any case law to overcome the witness requirement of 689.01?
It would be great if we get this law changed. I would be happy to assist in any way. With electronic signatures, it is really becoming an issue.
Harry
LAW OFFICES OF
HEIST, WEISSE & WOLK P.A.
PH: 1 800 253 8428
FAX: 1 800 367 9038
"Serving the Property Management Professional"
Website: http://www.evict.com/ www.evict.com
Email: mailto:harry@evict.com harry@evict.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Heist-Weisse-Wolk-PA/343965575625870
Visit us on Facebook
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I have a related question based on the following hypothetical fact pattern:
- Landlord signs lease and has his/her signature witnessed by two witnesses
- Tenant countersigns lease - but his/her signature is not witnessed
- Landlord (or for that matter it could be the Tenant) repudiate the lease one week later - before tenant takes possession or pays any installments of rent
Here is the question:
Does the lack of witnesses for the tenant's signature even matter, since it is only the landlord that is making a "conveyance" of the leasehold estate?
David J. Wiener, Esq.
David J. Wiener, P.A.
3200 N. Military Trail
Suite 400
Boca Raton, FL 33431
Telephone: 561-989-2910
Facsimile: 561-361-8898
Email: dwiener@woolbright.netmailto:dwiener@woolbright.net
IRS Circular 230 Required Notice--IRS regulations require that we inform you as follows: Any U.S. federal tax advice contained in this communication (including any attachments) is not intended to be used and cannot be used, for the purpose of (i) avoiding penalties under the Internal Revenue Code or (ii) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any transaction or tax-related matter(s).
This email is intended solely for the use of the individual to whom it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this email is not the intended recipient or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify us by telephone and return the original message to us at the listed email address. Thank you.
From: landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org on behalf of Arthur J. Menor AMenor@shutts.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2019 6:05 PM
To: 'RPPTL Landlord Tenant Committee' landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [RPPTL LandTen] Witness Requirements
Harry, you may be aware that the Section is considering supporting a bill to do away with the two witness requirement on leases although I believe this is limited to non-residential leases generally. I have been working on this effort. In that regard, we had a summer intern do some research on Florida cases addressing the two witness requirement for leases and attached is the raw work product she produced.
These cases should help you with your present issue. Tenant should not be able to get out of the Lease.
[cid:image003.jpg@01D51FA2.FDE2A630]
Arthur J. Menor
Partner, Board Certified in Real Estate Law
Fellow, American College of Real Estate Lawyers
Shutts & Bowen LLP
CityPlace Tower, 525 Okeechobee Blvd, Suite 1100 | West Palm Beach, FL 33401
Direct: (561) 650-8510 | Fax: (561) 822-5510 | Cell: (561) 358-1572
E-Mailmailto:AMenor@shutts.com | Biography http://www.shutts.com/lawyer/arthur-j-menor | V-Cardhttp://www.shutts.com/index.php?vcard&id=895 | Websitehttp://www.shutts.com
Please consider the environment before printing this email
From: landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Harry Heist
Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2019 5:37 PM
To: 'RPPTL Landlord Tenant Committee'
Subject: [RPPTL LandTen] Witness Requirements
EXTERNAL: This email originated from outside of the SHUTTS email system. Do not respond, click any links or open any attachments unless you trust the sender and know the content is safe.
Question for the group.
2 year residential lease. Tenant is 15 months in.
Lease signed electronically with no witnesses.
Tenant wants out.
Any case law to overcome the witness requirement of 689.01?
It would be great if we get this law changed. I would be happy to assist in any way. With electronic signatures, it is really becoming an issue.
Harry
LAW OFFICES OF
HEIST, WEISSE & WOLK P.A.
PH: 1 800 253 8428
FAX: 1 800 367 9038
"Serving the Property Management Professional"
Website: www.evict.comhttp://www.evict.com/
Email: harry@evict.commailto:harry@evict.com
[cid:image003.png@01D55DCB.14787300]https://www.facebook.com/pages/Heist-Weisse-Wolk-PA/343965575625870
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I'm not sure if there are cases on it (maybe Art's summer associate knows), but I think the general view is that no it doesn't matter, only the landlord's signature needs to have witnesses for a newly created lease (different for lease terminations and other scenarios). But I think there are some who think that because the landlord has a reversion, there's an argument that the tenant has agreed to convey the premises back at the end of the term, so the tenant is also a party conveying and so witnesses are required. Would be interested to know if there are cases interpreting that.
Eric D. Rapkin
Chair, Real Estate Practice Group
Akerman LLP | 350 East Las Olas Boulevard, Suite 1600 | Ft. Lauderdale, FL 33301
D: 954 759 8962 | T: 954 463 2700 | C: 305 343 6129 | F: 954 847 5350
eric.rapkin@akerman.commailto:eric.rapkin@akerman.com
vCardhttps://www.akerman.com/vcards/165.vcf | Profilehttps://www.akerman.com/en/people/eric-rapkin.html
[Akerman Logo]http://www.akerman.com/
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE: The information contained in this transmission may be privileged and confidential, and is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately reply to the sender that you have received this communication in error and then delete it. Thank you.
From: landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org On Behalf Of David Wiener
Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2019 8:03 PM
To: 'RPPTL Landlord Tenant Committee' landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [RPPTL LandTen] Witness Requirements
I have a related question based on the following hypothetical fact pattern:
- Landlord signs lease and has his/her signature witnessed by two witnesses
- Tenant countersigns lease - but his/her signature is not witnessed
- Landlord (or for that matter it could be the Tenant) repudiate the lease one week later - before tenant takes possession or pays any installments of rent
Here is the question:
Does the lack of witnesses for the tenant's signature even matter, since it is only the landlord that is making a "conveyance" of the leasehold estate?
David J. Wiener, Esq.
David J. Wiener, P.A.
3200 N. Military Trail
Suite 400
Boca Raton, FL 33431
Telephone: 561-989-2910
Facsimile: 561-361-8898
Email: dwiener@woolbright.netmailto:dwiener@woolbright.net
IRS Circular 230 Required Notice--IRS regulations require that we inform you as follows: Any U.S. federal tax advice contained in this communication (including any attachments) is not intended to be used and cannot be used, for the purpose of (i) avoiding penalties under the Internal Revenue Code or (ii) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any transaction or tax-related matter(s).
This email is intended solely for the use of the individual to whom it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this email is not the intended recipient or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify us by telephone and return the original message to us at the listed email address. Thank you.
From: landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> on behalf of Arthur J. Menor <AMenor@shutts.commailto:AMenor@shutts.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2019 6:05 PM
To: 'RPPTL Landlord Tenant Committee' <landten@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org>
Subject: Re: [RPPTL LandTen] Witness Requirements
Harry, you may be aware that the Section is considering supporting a bill to do away with the two witness requirement on leases although I believe this is limited to non-residential leases generally. I have been working on this effort. In that regard, we had a summer intern do some research on Florida cases addressing the two witness requirement for leases and attached is the raw work product she produced.
These cases should help you with your present issue. Tenant should not be able to get out of the Lease.
[cid:image003.jpg@01D51FA2.FDE2A630]
Arthur J. Menor
Partner, Board Certified in Real Estate Law
Fellow, American College of Real Estate Lawyers
Shutts & Bowen LLP
CityPlace Tower, 525 Okeechobee Blvd, Suite 1100 | West Palm Beach, FL 33401
Direct: (561) 650-8510 | Fax: (561) 822-5510 | Cell: (561) 358-1572
E-Mailmailto:AMenor@shutts.com | Biography http://www.shutts.com/lawyer/arthur-j-menor | V-Cardhttp://www.shutts.com/index.php?vcard&id=895 | Websitehttp://www.shutts.com
Please consider the environment before printing this email
From: landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Harry Heist
Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2019 5:37 PM
To: 'RPPTL Landlord Tenant Committee'
Subject: [RPPTL LandTen] Witness Requirements
EXTERNAL: This email originated from outside of the SHUTTS email system. Do not respond, click any links or open any attachments unless you trust the sender and know the content is safe.
Question for the group.
2 year residential lease. Tenant is 15 months in.
Lease signed electronically with no witnesses.
Tenant wants out.
Any case law to overcome the witness requirement of 689.01?
It would be great if we get this law changed. I would be happy to assist in any way. With electronic signatures, it is really becoming an issue.
Harry
LAW OFFICES OF
HEIST, WEISSE & WOLK P.A.
PH: 1 800 253 8428
FAX: 1 800 367 9038
"Serving the Property Management Professional"
Website: www.evict.comhttp://www.evict.com/
Email: harry@evict.commailto:harry@evict.com
[cid:image002.png@01D55DDC.850C45E0]https://www.facebook.com/pages/Heist-Weisse-Wolk-PA/343965575625870
Visit us on Facebook
THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS CONFIDENTIAL, ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGED, AND INTENDED FOR THE PERSONS NAMED ABOVE ONLY. ALL OTHER USE, COPYING, OR DISTRIBUTION IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED.
David, witnesses are not required for the Tenant’s signature. There is a Fund Title Note on point.
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 28, 2019, at 8:09 PM, David Wiener <dwiener@woolbright.netmailto:dwiener@woolbright.net> wrote:
I have a related question based on the following hypothetical fact pattern:
- Landlord signs lease and has his/her signature witnessed by two witnesses
- Tenant countersigns lease - but his/her signature is not witnessed
- Landlord (or for that matter it could be the Tenant) repudiate the lease one week later - before tenant takes possession or pays any installments of rent
Here is the question:
Does the lack of witnesses for the tenant's signature even matter, since it is only the landlord that is making a "conveyance" of the leasehold estate?
David J. Wiener, Esq.
David J. Wiener, P.A.
3200 N. Military Trail
Suite 400
Boca Raton, FL 33431
Telephone: 561-989-2910
Facsimile: 561-361-8898
Email: dwiener@woolbright.netmailto:dwiener@woolbright.net
IRS Circular 230 Required Notice--IRS regulations require that we inform you as follows: Any U.S. federal tax advice contained in this communication (including any attachments) is not intended to be used and cannot be used, for the purpose of (i) avoiding penalties under the Internal Revenue Code or (ii) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any transaction or tax-related matter(s).
This email is intended solely for the use of the individual to whom it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this email is not the intended recipient or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify us by telephone and return the original message to us at the listed email address. Thank you.
From: landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> on behalf of Arthur J. Menor <AMenor@shutts.commailto:AMenor@shutts.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2019 6:05 PM
To: 'RPPTL Landlord Tenant Committee' <landten@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org>
Subject: Re: [RPPTL LandTen] Witness Requirements
Harry, you may be aware that the Section is considering supporting a bill to do away with the two witness requirement on leases although I believe this is limited to non-residential leases generally. I have been working on this effort. In that regard, we had a summer intern do some research on Florida cases addressing the two witness requirement for leases and attached is the raw work product she produced.
These cases should help you with your present issue. Tenant should not be able to get out of the Lease.
<image002.jpg>
Arthur J. Menor
Partner, Board Certified in Real Estate Law
Fellow, American College of Real Estate Lawyers
Shutts & Bowen LLP
CityPlace Tower, 525 Okeechobee Blvd, Suite 1100 | West Palm Beach, FL 33401
Direct: (561) 650-8510 | Fax: (561) 822-5510 | Cell: (561) 358-1572
E-Mailmailto:AMenor@shutts.com | Biography http://www.shutts.com/lawyer/arthur-j-menor | V-Cardhttp://www.shutts.com/index.php?vcard&id=895 | Websitehttp://www.shutts.com
Please consider the environment before printing this email
From: landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Harry Heist
Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2019 5:37 PM
To: 'RPPTL Landlord Tenant Committee'
Subject: [RPPTL LandTen] Witness Requirements
EXTERNAL: This email originated from outside of the SHUTTS email system. Do not respond, click any links or open any attachments unless you trust the sender and know the content is safe.
Question for the group.
2 year residential lease. Tenant is 15 months in.
Lease signed electronically with no witnesses.
Tenant wants out.
Any case law to overcome the witness requirement of 689.01?
It would be great if we get this law changed. I would be happy to assist in any way. With electronic signatures, it is really becoming an issue.
Harry
LAW OFFICES OF
HEIST, WEISSE & WOLK P.A.
PH: 1 800 253 8428
FAX: 1 800 367 9038
"Serving the Property Management Professional"
Website: www.evict.comhttp://www.evict.com/
Email: harry@evict.commailto:harry@evict.com
<image003.png>https://www.facebook.com/pages/Heist-Weisse-Wolk-PA/343965575625870
Visit us on Facebook
THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS CONFIDENTIAL, ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGED, AND INTENDED FOR THE PERSONS NAMED ABOVE ONLY. ALL OTHER USE, COPYING, OR DISTRIBUTION IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED.
landten mailing list
landten@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org
http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/landten
The partial performance defense only applies to possessory /equitable component i believe
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From: landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org on behalf of Eric.Rapkin@akerman.com Eric.Rapkin@akerman.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2019 8:09:39 PM
To: landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [RPPTL LandTen] Witness Requirements
I'm not sure if there are cases on it (maybe Art's summer associate knows), but I think the general view is that no it doesn't matter, only the landlord's signature needs to have witnesses for a newly created lease (different for lease terminations and other scenarios). But I think there are some who think that because the landlord has a reversion, there's an argument that the tenant has agreed to convey the premises back at the end of the term, so the tenant is also a party conveying and so witnesses are required. Would be interested to know if there are cases interpreting that.
Eric D. Rapkin
Chair, Real Estate Practice Group
Akerman LLP | 350 East Las Olas Boulevard, Suite 1600 | Ft. Lauderdale, FL 33301
D: 954 759 8962 | T: 954 463 2700 | C: 305 343 6129 | F: 954 847 5350
eric.rapkin@akerman.commailto:eric.rapkin@akerman.com
vCardhttps://www.akerman.com/vcards/165.vcf | Profilehttps://www.akerman.com/en/people/eric-rapkin.html
[Akerman Logo]http://www.akerman.com/
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE: The information contained in this transmission may be privileged and confidential, and is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately reply to the sender that you have received this communication in error and then delete it. Thank you.
From: landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org On Behalf Of David Wiener
Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2019 8:03 PM
To: 'RPPTL Landlord Tenant Committee' landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [RPPTL LandTen] Witness Requirements
I have a related question based on the following hypothetical fact pattern:
- Landlord signs lease and has his/her signature witnessed by two witnesses
- Tenant countersigns lease - but his/her signature is not witnessed
- Landlord (or for that matter it could be the Tenant) repudiate the lease one week later - before tenant takes possession or pays any installments of rent
Here is the question:
Does the lack of witnesses for the tenant's signature even matter, since it is only the landlord that is making a "conveyance" of the leasehold estate?
David J. Wiener, Esq.
David J. Wiener, P.A.
3200 N. Military Trail
Suite 400
Boca Raton, FL 33431
Telephone: 561-989-2910
Facsimile: 561-361-8898
Email: dwiener@woolbright.netmailto:dwiener@woolbright.net
IRS Circular 230 Required Notice--IRS regulations require that we inform you as follows: Any U.S. federal tax advice contained in this communication (including any attachments) is not intended to be used and cannot be used, for the purpose of (i) avoiding penalties under the Internal Revenue Code or (ii) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any transaction or tax-related matter(s).
This email is intended solely for the use of the individual to whom it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this email is not the intended recipient or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify us by telephone and return the original message to us at the listed email address. Thank you.
From: landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> on behalf of Arthur J. Menor <AMenor@shutts.commailto:AMenor@shutts.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2019 6:05 PM
To: 'RPPTL Landlord Tenant Committee' <landten@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org>
Subject: Re: [RPPTL LandTen] Witness Requirements
Harry, you may be aware that the Section is considering supporting a bill to do away with the two witness requirement on leases although I believe this is limited to non-residential leases generally. I have been working on this effort. In that regard, we had a summer intern do some research on Florida cases addressing the two witness requirement for leases and attached is the raw work product she produced.
These cases should help you with your present issue. Tenant should not be able to get out of the Lease.
[cid:image003.jpg@01D51FA2.FDE2A630]
Arthur J. Menor
Partner, Board Certified in Real Estate Law
Fellow, American College of Real Estate Lawyers
Shutts & Bowen LLP
CityPlace Tower, 525 Okeechobee Blvd, Suite 1100 | West Palm Beach, FL 33401
Direct: (561) 650-8510 | Fax: (561) 822-5510 | Cell: (561) 358-1572
E-Mailmailto:AMenor@shutts.com | Biography http://www.shutts.com/lawyer/arthur-j-menor | V-Cardhttp://www.shutts.com/index.php?vcard&id=895 | Websitehttp://www.shutts.com
Please consider the environment before printing this email
From: landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Harry Heist
Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2019 5:37 PM
To: 'RPPTL Landlord Tenant Committee'
Subject: [RPPTL LandTen] Witness Requirements
EXTERNAL: This email originated from outside of the SHUTTS email system. Do not respond, click any links or open any attachments unless you trust the sender and know the content is safe.
Question for the group.
2 year residential lease. Tenant is 15 months in.
Lease signed electronically with no witnesses.
Tenant wants out.
Any case law to overcome the witness requirement of 689.01?
It would be great if we get this law changed. I would be happy to assist in any way. With electronic signatures, it is really becoming an issue.
Harry
LAW OFFICES OF
HEIST, WEISSE & WOLK P.A.
PH: 1 800 253 8428
FAX: 1 800 367 9038
"Serving the Property Management Professional"
Website: www.evict.comhttp://www.evict.com/
Email: harry@evict.commailto:harry@evict.com
[cid:image002.png@01D55DDC.850C45E0]https://www.facebook.com/pages/Heist-Weisse-Wolk-PA/343965575625870
Visit us on Facebook
THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS CONFIDENTIAL, ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGED, AND INTENDED FOR THE PERSONS NAMED ABOVE ONLY. ALL OTHER USE, COPYING, OR DISTRIBUTION IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED.
