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RPPTL Real Estate Leasing Committee

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Re: [RPPTL LandTen] access to apartment issueFromFrom

NB
Neil B. Shoter
Tue, Dec 30, 2008 3:08 PM

Here is Mary Ellen's underlying reason (attached) for the requested
legislation.  My comments are:

  1. Appears her concerns may relate to housing that is exempt from
    83.59(3)(d), but I am not entirely certain.

  2. Consensus seems to be that only notice in event of death (not
    incapacity or other infirmity) should be dealt with in any statutory
    notice provision.

  3. If her concern is that property managers of these complexes are not
    "complying" with current law as to contacting next of kin where no PR
    has been designated, then that should not be a reason to push a
    statutory change.

  4. It would seem to me that naming a responsible contact person can be
    done contractually in the lease w/o statutory change, but I would like
    someone on the probate side to discuss whether they are perceiving the
    same problem that Mary Ellen is saying exists.

Neil B. Shoter
Partner


Shutts & Bowen LLP
1100 CityPlace Tower, 525 Okeechobee Boulevard | West Palm Beach, FL
33401
Direct: (561) 650-8535 | Fax: (561) 822-5525
E-Mail mailto:NShoter@shutts.com  | Biography
<http://www.shutts.com/index.cfm/fa/attorney.bio/atty/466a1d2b-4049-425b
-af4b-a56f3cb8a441/Neil_B_Shoter.cfm/>  | V-Card
<http://www.shutts.com/index.cfm/fa/attorney.vcf/atty/466a1d2b-4049-425b
-af4b-a56f3cb8a441/Neil_B_Shoter.cfm/>  | Website
http://www.shutts.com/


From: BrutonB@gtlaw.com [mailto:BrutonB@gtlaw.com] 
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 5:27 PM
To: martha@penningtonlawfirm.com
Cc: gene@Penningtonlawfirm.com; Pete@Penningtonlawfirm.com;

bfelcoski@gfsestatelaw.com; gmeyer@carltonfields.com; cinashlaw@aol.com;
mjgelfand@gelfandarpe.com; debra.boje@ruden.com; Neil B. Shoter
Subject: Re: access to apartment issue

Thanks, Martha--

We'll be happy to provide technical assistance on this proposal.

As you can see from the previous email chain, we have a lot of expertise
to apply.

I think the best initial advice is for the proponents to stay

away from incapacity/illness issues and focus on tweaking the deceased
tenant issues in the existing statute.

I'm copying the other Reptiles who have joined in the fray so

that they'll know you and Gene are in the loop.

Best,

Burt

From: Martha J. Edenfield 
To: Bruton, Burt (Shld-Mia-RE) 
Cc: Gene Adams 
Sent: Mon Dec 29 16:23:52 2008
Subject: RE: access to apartment issue 




I believe the 2007 changes were from the Florida Apartment

Association.  Pete had worked with them before and I know that Gene is
familiar with these changes, too.  I believe that the Section gave input
to the FAA at that time.

We will take a look and give you our collective thoughts on the

recent e-mails and responses.


From: BrutonB@gtlaw.com [mailto:BrutonB@gtlaw.com] 
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 3:35 PM
To: Peter M. Dunbar; Martha J. Edenfield
Cc: bfelcoski@gfsestatelaw.com; gmeyer@carltonfields.com;

Debra.Boje@ruden.com; mjgelfand@gelfandarpe.com; Cinashlaw@aol.com
Subject: access to apartment issue

Hi Pete, hi Martha--
 
As promised in my email a moment ago, I'm forwarding the

following email chain, which involves folks from outside the section.
The chain should give you the background you need.

As I mentioned in that email, I think it's important to identify

the source of the 2007 amendments mentioned below; the stakeholder
behind that amendment will care if there's an attempt to alter the
existing balance.

Burt Bruton
Shareholder 
Greenberg Traurig, P.A. | 1221 Brickell Avenue | Miami, FL 33131
Tel 305.579.0593 | Fax 305.961.5593 

brutonb@gtlaw.com | www.gtlaw.com <http://www.gtlaw.com/> 

 Greenberg Traurig<http://www2.gtlaw.com/files/GTLogo.jpg> 

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    D.C.  *  White Plains  *  ZURICH

From: harry@evict.com [mailto:harry@evict.com] 
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 12:01 PM
To: 'Arthur J. Menor'; 'Neil B. Shoter'; 'Michael J. Gelfand';

'Boje, Debra'; 'Jeff Rogo'
Cc: mengert1@aol.com; Bruton, Burt (Shld-Mia-RE);
bfelcoski@gfsestatelaw.com; safrank@arnstein.com; Cinashlaw@aol.com
Subject: RE: RPPTL: FW: Security Deposit issue

83.59 (3)(d) A landlord may obtain a signed statement from a

tenant when the lease is signed or any time thereafter that identifies
the tenant's personal representative or another person to contact to
remove and provide safe keeping for the tenant's personal property in
the event of the tenant's death or incapacity due to an illness that
results in the termination of the lease. The person identified in the
statement may remove the tenant's personal property and provide for safe
keeping thereof in accordance with the tenant's will or written or oral
wishes.

I think Mary Ellen is trying to streamline the process in the

event of incapacity or death.

Right now, if no one is designated by the tenant prior to

incapacity, in the event of incapacity, their items in the rental unit
are in a  legal limbo. I believe under current law or absence thereof, a
tenant CAN designate someone to remove items in the event of incapacity.
The problem is in a death situation, current law states that the
landlord must wait 60 days and if no probate estate is opened, they then
can take possession of the unit.

What this does is hold the unit hostage for 60 days and this

creates a problem especially in a heavily senior housing type setting
where there is this 60 day wait.

Designating a person while alive to deal with removal of

possessions upon death sounds like an avoidance of the probate process
for all items in a rental unit.  While I personally like this, I think
it conflicts with probate law.

By the way, my involvement in this at the current time is not on

behalf of FAA but on behalf of my own landlord clients and does not
represent any policy or positions of FAA.

Harry

 

LAW OFFICES OF 
HEIST, WEISSE & DAVIS, P.A.
PH: 1 800 253 8428
FAX: 1 800 367 9038
"Serving the Property Management Professional"
Website:  www.evict.com <http://www.evict.com/>  
Email: harry@evict.com

THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS CONFIDENTIAL, ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGED,

AND INTENDED FOR THE PERSONS NAMED ABOVE ONLY.  ALL OTHER USE, COPYING,
OR DISTRIBUTION IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED.

From: Arthur J. Menor [mailto:AMenor@shutts.com] 
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 11:14 AM
To: harry@evict.com; Neil B. Shoter; Michael J. Gelfand; Boje,

Debra; Jeff Rogo
Cc: mengert1@aol.com; BrutonB@gtlaw.com;
bfelcoski@gfsestatelaw.com; safrank@arnstein.com
Subject: RE: RPPTL: FW: Security Deposit issue

Harry, please explain the issue to be addressed by the proposed

legislation and how that issue is not being adequately addressed by the
present statutes.


	From: harry@evict.com [mailto:harry@evict.com] 
	Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 11:12 AM
	To: Neil B. Shoter; 'Michael J. Gelfand'; 'Boje, Debra';

'Jeff Rogo'
Cc: mengert1@aol.com; BrutonB@gtlaw.com;
bfelcoski@gfsestatelaw.com; Arthur J. Menor; safrank@arnstein.com
Subject: RE: RPPTL: FW: Security Deposit issue

	Dear Neil,

	 

	Jeff Rogo who I added to this email is the FAA

Government Affairs Director and takes direction from them.  I am the
volunteer General Counsel for FAA and assist in bill drafting language.

	I would hate to see the Florida Association of Homes and

Services for the Aging lose a bill slot so maybe they can file something
and it can be worked on later?

	You may want to call Jeff directly at 813 882 0222.

	 

	I personally am supportive of anything that will assist

landlords in the event of tenant death or incapacitation and agree that
the current statute needs improvement but FAA decides on whether to
actively promote a bill as they have their own legislative priorities
set already for 2009.

	With a bill like this, if the wording can be worked out

and agreed on by RPPTL and Florida Association of Homes and Services for
the Aging, it will probably sail right through without the need for much
involvement or lobbying efforts.

	Harry

	 

	LAW OFFICES OF 
	HEIST, WEISSE & DAVIS, P.A.
	PH: 1 800 253 8428
	FAX: 1 800 367 9038
	"Serving the Property Management Professional"
	Website:  www.evict.com <http://www.evict.com/>  
	Email: harry@evict.com

	THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS CONFIDENTIAL, ATTORNEY-CLIENT

PRIVILEGED, AND INTENDED FOR THE PERSONS NAMED ABOVE ONLY.  ALL OTHER
USE, COPYING, OR DISTRIBUTION IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED.

	From: Neil B. Shoter [mailto:NShoter@shutts.com] 
	Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 10:43 AM
	To: Michael J. Gelfand; Boje, Debra
	Cc: mengert1@aol.com; BrutonB@gtlaw.com;

bfelcoski@gfsestatelaw.com; Arthur J. Menor; harry@evict.com;
safrank@arnstein.com
Subject: RE: RPPTL: FW: Security Deposit issue

	I just received this request and have not vetted it with

our (Landlord Tenant Committee), b ut I can see problems with
introducing "incapacity or illness" threshold to the mix creating
potential landlord liability to a tenant for allowing disposal of its
property absent clear evidence from the tenant allowing the third party
taking of its property.  Might also have to take into consideration
whether any rent default exists.  Also since 83.59(3)(d) allows taking
of possession if "the landlord has not been notified in writing of the
existence of a probate estate or of the name and address of a personal
representative."  designating a PR in advance could inadvertently
affect the value of (3)(d).

	I would agree to wait to hear what Probate Div. says

about it.

	Neil B. Shoter 
	Partner  

	Shutts & Bowen LLP 
	1100 CityPlace Tower, 525 Okeechobee Boulevard | West

Palm Beach, FL 33401
Direct: (561) 650-8535 | Fax: (561) 822-5525
E-Mail mailto:NShoter@shutts.com  | Biography
<http://www.shutts.com/index.cfm/fa/attorney.bio/atty/466a1d2b-4049-425b
-af4b-a56f3cb8a441/Neil_B_Shoter.cfm/>  | V-Card
<http://www.shutts.com/index.cfm/fa/attorney.vcf/atty/466a1d2b-4049-425b
-af4b-a56f3cb8a441/Neil_B_Shoter.cfm/>  | Website
http://www.shutts.com/


		From: Michael J. Gelfand

[mailto:mjgelfand@gelfandarpe.com]
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 10:24 AM
To: Boje, Debra
Cc: Neil B. Shoter; mengert1@aol.com;
BrutonB@gtlaw.com; bfelcoski@gfsestatelaw.com
Subject: RPPTL: FW: Security Deposit issue

		Dear Debra

		 

		Attached is an email string from Neil Shoter on

behalf of the Landlord Tenant Committee concerning a potential bill to
change access to rental property after the (only or last remaining?)
tenant's death.

		I perceive that there could be a probate and

estate issue here; thus, I pong this to you.  Let me know if there is
any interest from the Probate Division in this draft proposal.

		The current statute which I believe was amended

recently with the Section's support, states:

			83.59  Right of action for possession.-
			(1)  If the rental agreement is

terminated and the tenant does not vacate the premises, the landlord may
recover possession of the dwelling unit as provided in this section.
(2)  A landlord, the landlord's
attorney, or the landlord's agent, applying for the removal of a tenant
shall file in the county court of the county where the premises are
situated a complaint describing the dwelling unit and stating the facts
that authorize its recovery. A landlord's agent is not permitted to take
any action other than the initial filing of the complaint, unless the
landlord's agent is an attorney. The landlord is entitled to the summary
procedure provided in s. 51.011 [F.S. 1971], and the court shall advance
the cause on the calendar.
(3)  The landlord shall not recover
possession of a dwelling unit except:
(a)  In an action for possession under
subsection (2) or other civil action in which the issue of right of
possession is determined;
(b)  When the tenant has surrendered
possession of the dwelling unit to the landlord;
(c)  When the tenant has abandoned the
dwelling unit. In the absence of actual knowledge of abandonment, it
shall be presumed that the tenant has abandoned the dwelling unit if he
or she is absent from the premises for a period of time equal to
one-half the time for periodic rental payments. However, this
presumption does not apply if the rent is current or the tenant has
notified the landlord, in writing, of an intended absence; or
(d)  When the last remaining tenant of a
dwelling unit is deceased, personal property remains on the premises,
rent is unpaid, at least 60 days have elapsed following the date of
death, and the landlord has not been notified in writing of the
existence of a probate estate or of the name and address of a personal
representative. This paragraph does not apply to a dwelling unit used in
connection with a federally administered or regulated housing program,
including programs under s. 202, s. 221(d)(3) and (4), s. 236, or s. 8
of the National Housing Act, as amended.
(4)  The prevailing party is entitled to
have judgment for costs and execution therefor.

		Neil:  I presume, and correct me, that this is

not an action item for the Section?  If it is to be an item, then please
check Legislative Review Committee webpage at www.rpptl.org for the
"cookbook" on transforming a proposal into an action item.  There
appears to be a number of drafting issues.  Please also consider whether
this may be passive support rather than seeking active lobbyist support.

		Michael J. Gelfand

		Florida Bar Board Certified Real Estate Attorney

		Florida Supreme Court Certified Mediator:

		   Civil Circuit Court & Civil County Court

		Gelfand & Arpe, P.A.

http://www.gelfandarpe.com/

		"Assisting Communities to Efficiently Reach

Goals"

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		1555 Palm Beach Lakes Blvd.

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		(561) 655-6224

		 

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		From: Neil B. Shoter [mailto:NShoter@shutts.com]

		Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 9:45 AM
		To: safrank@arnstein.com;

landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org; Meyer, George J.; Michael J. Gelfand;
brutonb@gtlaw.com
Cc: Arthur J. Menor
Subject: FW: Security Deposit issue

		If anyone has any comments on the string below,

please let me know asap.  I received this email relative to a change in
law being requested by the Florida Association of Homes and Services for
the Aging to allow the tenant while alive to designate someone to get
the personal belongings in the event of the tenant 's incapacitation or
death.

		Any comments?

		 

		 

		Neil B. Shoter 
		Partner  

		Shutts & Bowen LLP 
		1100 CityPlace Tower, 525 Okeechobee Boulevard |

West Palm Beach, FL 33401
Direct: (561) 650-8535 | Fax: (561) 822-5525
E-Mail mailto:NShoter@shutts.com  | Biography
<http://www.shutts.com/index.cfm/fa/attorney.bio/atty/466a1d2b-4049-425b
-af4b-a56f3cb8a441/Neil_B_Shoter.cfm/>  | V-Card
<http://www.shutts.com/index.cfm/fa/attorney.vcf/atty/466a1d2b-4049-425b
-af4b-a56f3cb8a441/Neil_B_Shoter.cfm/>  | Website
http://www.shutts.com/


			From: Mary Ellen Early

[mailto:meearly@earthlink.net]
Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 10:25 PM
To: harry@evict.com; 'Jeff Rogo'
Cc: 'Janegale Boyd'; Neil B. Shoter;
'Carol A. Berkowitz'
Subject: RE: Security Deposit issue

			Thank you Harry!  Since I am not a

lawyer, I am not familiar with this area of law. Therefore, I cannot
draft the language. I am not working this week, but I will check my
e-mail for ideas from you all. I want to use the bill slot that is being
saved for us so I am working on another unrelated idea as well.  We do
not have a senate sponsor yet, but I am sure we can put our heads
together and find one if this works out.

			How about this concept as a starter?  --

83.59 (3)(d) A landlord may obtain a signed statement from a tenant when
the lease is signed or any time thereafter that identifies the tenant's
personal representative or another person to contact to remove and
provide safe keeping for the tenant's personal property in the event of
the tenant's death or incapacity due to an illness that results in the
termination of the lease. The person identified in the statement may
remove the tenant's personal property and provide for safe keeping
thereof in accordance with the tenant's will or written or oral wishes.

			Mary Ellen

			 

			Mary Ellen K. Early

			Senior Vice President of Public Policy

			Florida Association of Homes and

Services for the Aging

			2303 Pin Oak Dr.

			DeLand, Florida 32720

			386/738-0503 (Deland)

			850/671-3700 (Tallahassee)

			meearly@earthlink.net

			From: harry@evict.com

[mailto:harry@evict.com]
Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 6:24 PM
To: 'Mary Ellen Early'; 'Jeff Rogo'
Subject: RE: Security Deposit issue

			Dear Mary Ellen,

			 

			Anything that helps us get possession of

a unit as soon as possible after death is appealing to our industry.

			The problem is that you cannot

accomplish something in a document prior to death regarding personal
property as this is part of the estate and there may be no estate opened
up. In other words, you cannot bypass the probate or estate process. If
the Bar does not mind, I am all for it.

			As for incapacity, I see no problems. 

			 

			I copied Jeff and let's run it by the

Bar. I belong to the Real Property and Trust Law section of the Bar.

			We need to explain the problem we all

face, come up with the wording and have their blessing.

			Jeff, possibly we need to make this a

priority this week.  It will help our industry.

			Harry

			 

			LAW OFFICES OF 
			HEIST, WEISSE & DAVIS, P.A.
			PH: 1 800 253 8428
			FAX: 1 800 367 9038
			"Serving the Property Management

Professional"
Website:  www.evict.com
http://www.evict.com/
Email: harry@evict.com

			THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS CONFIDENTIAL,

ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGED, AND INTENDED FOR THE PERSONS NAMED ABOVE
ONLY.  ALL OTHER USE, COPYING, OR DISTRIBUTION IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED.

			From: Mary Ellen Early

[mailto:meearly@earthlink.net]
Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 12:13
PM
To: harry@evict.com
Subject: RE: Security Deposit issue

			Dear Harry,

			 

			A house member saved us a bill slot. If

we want to use it, we must have bill language to her by 1/2/09.  Do you
have any language to address this issue that will not upset the probate
section of the bar? Could we add a couple of sentences to current law
that says,  In conjunction with signing a lease or any time thereafter,
a tenant may provide the landlord with the name and contact information
for a person responsible for removing and providing safekeeping for the
tenant' personal possessions in the event of the death of the tenant or
incapacity due to an illness that results in the termination of the
lease. The landlord may release the tenant's personal possessions to the
designated person.

			Please let me know by this Monday if you

are interested in pursuing a change in the law and if this language will
work. We do not have a senate sponsor and we would need the support of
the Apartment Association and the Probate section of the Florida Bar to
make this work.

			Thanks,

			Mary Ellen

			 

			Mary Ellen K. Early

			Senior Vice President of Public Policy

			Florida Association of Homes and

Services for the Aging

			2303 Pin Oak Dr.

			DeLand, Florida 32720

			386/738-0503 (Deland)

			850/671-3700 (Tallahassee)

			meearly@earthlink.net

			From: harry@evict.com

[mailto:harry@evict.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 5:23 PM
To: 'Mary Ellen Early'; 'Jeff Rogo'
Cc: 'Gail Matillo'; 'Colleen Bloom'
Subject: RE: Security Deposit issue

			Dear Ms. Early.

			 

			We had the same concerns.  At the time I

believe the amendment was proposed, we did not oppose the amendment
because we wanted to get the bill passed. We were told that you were
able to get possession in 15 days if federally funded.  I disagreed with
that as it conflicts with probate law but we just let it slide.

			I copied Jeff Rogo and possibly we can

address it.

			We all have the same concerns with

getting back possession without having to go through the time-consuming
and expensive probate procedure.  Maybe we can clean it up next year. I
am a member of the Real Property and Probate Section of the Bar and on
the Landlord/Tenant Law Committee this year.

			Harry Heist

			 

			LAW OFFICES OF 
			HEIST, WEISSE & LUCREZI, P.A.
			PH: 1 800 253 8428
			FAX: 1 800 367 9038
			"Serving the Property Management

Professional"
Website:  www.evict.com
Email: harry@evict.com

			From: Mary Ellen Early

[mailto:meearly@earthlink.net]
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 11:55 AM
To: harry@evict.com
Cc: 'Gail Matillo'; 'Colleen Bloom'
Subject: RE: Security Deposit issue
Importance: High

			Dear Harry,

			 

			I looked up the section of law Jeff Rogo

referenced -- 83.59 (3)(d).  I do not have his e-mail address to respond
so please forward this e-mail to him.

			We had concerns about 83.59 (3)(d) when

it was amended in 2007. A sentence was added for us to exempt HUD
financed communities from the subsection because we were not sure the
change would help. Most of our affordable housing members are governed
by federal law. We are researching the process that they must follow
when a resident dies and leaves possessions in the apartment. We know
they have 14 days to get the unit ready for the next tenant. We don't
know if they can obtain information on the next of kin at the time of
move-in and also get written verification from the tenant that they want
their property released to that person should they die.

			How would you propose changing the law?

How about authorizing the landlord to obtain a signed statement from the
tenant with instructions on who to call and what to do with personal
possessions in the event of death? Can they do that now or do they have
to wait for probate?  I am not an attorney so I don't know what the
legal issues would be related to a will that identifies other heirs.
When the law talks about a personal representative, I am assuming it
means a personal representative named in the will.  Do you know?  Your
association is more familiar because of the research that went into the
2007 law changes.

			We are interested in the issue and would

like to work with your association, but we need to do more research
ourselves on federal law governing our HUD housing members.

			Thanks,

			Mary Ellen

			 

			Mary Ellen K. Early

			Senior Vice President of Public Policy

			Florida Association of Homes and

Services for the Aging

			2303 Pin Oak Dr.

			DeLand, Florida 32720

			386/738-0503 (Deland)

			850/671-3700 (Tallahassee)

			meearly@earthlink.net



			From: harry@evict.com

[mailto:harry@evict.com]
Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 7:23 PM
To: Gail Matillo; 'Jeff Rogo'; 'Kelly
Mallette'
Subject: Security Deposit issue

			Dear Gail,

			 

			This was forwarded to me by Jeff Rogo,

Governmental Affairs Director for the Florida Apartment Association.

			Since you mentioned legislation, one

issue that I deal with especially with seniors is the death of the
senior in the apartment. While we can now wait 60 days and dispose of
any abandoned personal property due to the law change 2 years ago, we
cannot ever let relatives into the unit after a death unless a probate
estate is opened and a personal representative appointed. Unless the
senior is wealthy, no estate is ever opened and it really causes a
problem. I would love to see some legislation that would allow a senior
tenant or any tenant for that matter to designate in the lease or on a
separate document, a person who could enter a unit after death and at
the same time not have the landlord liable for what the relative may do
to the personal belongings. It is a heart wrenching time when a relative
flies in from New Jersey only to be denied access by the landlord. Often
all they want is to get some sentimental personal belongings or find a
will.  Maybe we can all think about something like this and work
together.

			Have a wonderful week,

			 

			Harry Heist

			General Counsel to FAA

			 

			 

			From: Gail Matillo

[mailto:gmatillo@fahsa.org]
Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 5:03 PM
To: Kelly Mallette
Subject: 2009 Legislative session

			Dear Kelly:
			
			Are you planning to file any substantial

bills in 2009?

			Does any of the members of the Apartment

Association ever have problems with refunding interest from security
deposits?

			We are working on our public policy

agendas and I wanted to report if you were planning any bills, etc. for
2009.

			Thank you,

			Gail

			 

			 

			 

			Gail G. Matillo

			Director of Housing and Program

Development

			Florida Association of Homes and

Services for the Aging (FAHSA)

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			(850) 671-3700 Fax: (850) 671-3790

			Direct: (850) 702-0308

			Cell: (850) 294-3415

			http://www.fahsa.org

			 

			 

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Here is Mary Ellen's underlying reason (attached) for the requested legislation. My comments are: 1. Appears her concerns may relate to housing that is exempt from 83.59(3)(d), but I am not entirely certain. 2. Consensus seems to be that only notice in event of death (not incapacity or other infirmity) should be dealt with in any statutory notice provision. 3. If her concern is that property managers of these complexes are not "complying" with current law as to contacting next of kin where no PR has been designated, then that should not be a reason to push a statutory change. 4. It would seem to me that naming a responsible contact person can be done contractually in the lease w/o statutory change, but I would like someone on the probate side to discuss whether they are perceiving the same problem that Mary Ellen is saying exists. Neil B. Shoter Partner ________________________________ Shutts & Bowen LLP 1100 CityPlace Tower, 525 Okeechobee Boulevard | West Palm Beach, FL 33401 Direct: (561) 650-8535 | Fax: (561) 822-5525 E-Mail <mailto:NShoter@shutts.com> | Biography <http://www.shutts.com/index.cfm/fa/attorney.bio/atty/466a1d2b-4049-425b -af4b-a56f3cb8a441/Neil_B_Shoter.cfm/> | V-Card <http://www.shutts.com/index.cfm/fa/attorney.vcf/atty/466a1d2b-4049-425b -af4b-a56f3cb8a441/Neil_B_Shoter.cfm/> | Website <http://www.shutts.com/> ________________________________ From: BrutonB@gtlaw.com [mailto:BrutonB@gtlaw.com] Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 5:27 PM To: martha@penningtonlawfirm.com Cc: gene@Penningtonlawfirm.com; Pete@Penningtonlawfirm.com; bfelcoski@gfsestatelaw.com; gmeyer@carltonfields.com; cinashlaw@aol.com; mjgelfand@gelfandarpe.com; debra.boje@ruden.com; Neil B. Shoter Subject: Re: access to apartment issue Thanks, Martha-- We'll be happy to provide technical assistance on this proposal. As you can see from the previous email chain, we have a lot of expertise to apply. I think the best initial advice is for the proponents to stay away from incapacity/illness issues and focus on tweaking the deceased tenant issues in the existing statute. I'm copying the other Reptiles who have joined in the fray so that they'll know you and Gene are in the loop. Best, Burt ________________________________ From: Martha J. Edenfield To: Bruton, Burt (Shld-Mia-RE) Cc: Gene Adams Sent: Mon Dec 29 16:23:52 2008 Subject: RE: access to apartment issue I believe the 2007 changes were from the Florida Apartment Association. Pete had worked with them before and I know that Gene is familiar with these changes, too. I believe that the Section gave input to the FAA at that time. We will take a look and give you our collective thoughts on the recent e-mails and responses. ________________________________ From: BrutonB@gtlaw.com [mailto:BrutonB@gtlaw.com] Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 3:35 PM To: Peter M. Dunbar; Martha J. Edenfield Cc: bfelcoski@gfsestatelaw.com; gmeyer@carltonfields.com; Debra.Boje@ruden.com; mjgelfand@gelfandarpe.com; Cinashlaw@aol.com Subject: access to apartment issue Hi Pete, hi Martha-- As promised in my email a moment ago, I'm forwarding the following email chain, which involves folks from outside the section. The chain should give you the background you need. As I mentioned in that email, I think it's important to identify the source of the 2007 amendments mentioned below; the stakeholder behind that amendment will care if there's an attempt to alter the existing balance. Burt Bruton Shareholder Greenberg Traurig, P.A. | 1221 Brickell Avenue | Miami, FL 33131 Tel 305.579.0593 | Fax 305.961.5593 brutonb@gtlaw.com | www.gtlaw.com <http://www.gtlaw.com/> Greenberg Traurig<http://www2.gtlaw.com/files/GTLogo.jpg> ALBANY * AMSTERDAM * ATLANTA * AUSTIN * BOSTON * CHICAGO * DALLAS * DELAWARE * DENVER * FORT LAUDERDALE * HOUSTON * LAS VEGAS * LOS ANGELES * MIAMI * NEW JERSEY * NEW YORK * ORANGE COUNTY * ORLANDO * PALM BEACH COUNTY * PHILADELPHIA * PHOENIX * SACRAMENTO * SHANGHAI * SILICON VALLEY * TALLAHASSEE * TAMPA * Tokyo * TYSONS CORNER * WASHINGTON, D.C. * White Plains * ZURICH ________________________________ From: harry@evict.com [mailto:harry@evict.com] Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 12:01 PM To: 'Arthur J. Menor'; 'Neil B. Shoter'; 'Michael J. Gelfand'; 'Boje, Debra'; 'Jeff Rogo' Cc: mengert1@aol.com; Bruton, Burt (Shld-Mia-RE); bfelcoski@gfsestatelaw.com; safrank@arnstein.com; Cinashlaw@aol.com Subject: RE: RPPTL: FW: Security Deposit issue 83.59 (3)(d) A landlord may obtain a signed statement from a tenant when the lease is signed or any time thereafter that identifies the tenant's personal representative or another person to contact to remove and provide safe keeping for the tenant's personal property in the event of the tenant's death or incapacity due to an illness that results in the termination of the lease. The person identified in the statement may remove the tenant's personal property and provide for safe keeping thereof in accordance with the tenant's will or written or oral wishes. I think Mary Ellen is trying to streamline the process in the event of incapacity or death. Right now, if no one is designated by the tenant prior to incapacity, in the event of incapacity, their items in the rental unit are in a legal limbo. I believe under current law or absence thereof, a tenant CAN designate someone to remove items in the event of incapacity. The problem is in a death situation, current law states that the landlord must wait 60 days and if no probate estate is opened, they then can take possession of the unit. What this does is hold the unit hostage for 60 days and this creates a problem especially in a heavily senior housing type setting where there is this 60 day wait. Designating a person while alive to deal with removal of possessions upon death sounds like an avoidance of the probate process for all items in a rental unit. While I personally like this, I think it conflicts with probate law. By the way, my involvement in this at the current time is not on behalf of FAA but on behalf of my own landlord clients and does not represent any policy or positions of FAA. Harry LAW OFFICES OF HEIST, WEISSE & DAVIS, P.A. PH: 1 800 253 8428 FAX: 1 800 367 9038 "Serving the Property Management Professional" Website: www.evict.com <http://www.evict.com/> Email: harry@evict.com THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS CONFIDENTIAL, ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGED, AND INTENDED FOR THE PERSONS NAMED ABOVE ONLY. ALL OTHER USE, COPYING, OR DISTRIBUTION IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. From: Arthur J. Menor [mailto:AMenor@shutts.com] Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 11:14 AM To: harry@evict.com; Neil B. Shoter; Michael J. Gelfand; Boje, Debra; Jeff Rogo Cc: mengert1@aol.com; BrutonB@gtlaw.com; bfelcoski@gfsestatelaw.com; safrank@arnstein.com Subject: RE: RPPTL: FW: Security Deposit issue Harry, please explain the issue to be addressed by the proposed legislation and how that issue is not being adequately addressed by the present statutes. ________________________________ From: harry@evict.com [mailto:harry@evict.com] Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 11:12 AM To: Neil B. Shoter; 'Michael J. Gelfand'; 'Boje, Debra'; 'Jeff Rogo' Cc: mengert1@aol.com; BrutonB@gtlaw.com; bfelcoski@gfsestatelaw.com; Arthur J. Menor; safrank@arnstein.com Subject: RE: RPPTL: FW: Security Deposit issue Dear Neil, Jeff Rogo who I added to this email is the FAA Government Affairs Director and takes direction from them. I am the volunteer General Counsel for FAA and assist in bill drafting language. I would hate to see the Florida Association of Homes and Services for the Aging lose a bill slot so maybe they can file something and it can be worked on later? You may want to call Jeff directly at 813 882 0222. I personally am supportive of anything that will assist landlords in the event of tenant death or incapacitation and agree that the current statute needs improvement but FAA decides on whether to actively promote a bill as they have their own legislative priorities set already for 2009. With a bill like this, if the wording can be worked out and agreed on by RPPTL and Florida Association of Homes and Services for the Aging, it will probably sail right through without the need for much involvement or lobbying efforts. Harry LAW OFFICES OF HEIST, WEISSE & DAVIS, P.A. PH: 1 800 253 8428 FAX: 1 800 367 9038 "Serving the Property Management Professional" Website: www.evict.com <http://www.evict.com/> Email: harry@evict.com THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS CONFIDENTIAL, ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGED, AND INTENDED FOR THE PERSONS NAMED ABOVE ONLY. ALL OTHER USE, COPYING, OR DISTRIBUTION IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. From: Neil B. Shoter [mailto:NShoter@shutts.com] Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 10:43 AM To: Michael J. Gelfand; Boje, Debra Cc: mengert1@aol.com; BrutonB@gtlaw.com; bfelcoski@gfsestatelaw.com; Arthur J. Menor; harry@evict.com; safrank@arnstein.com Subject: RE: RPPTL: FW: Security Deposit issue I just received this request and have not vetted it with our (Landlord Tenant Committee), b ut I can see problems with introducing "incapacity or illness" threshold to the mix creating potential landlord liability to a tenant for allowing disposal of its property absent clear evidence from the tenant allowing the third party taking of its property. Might also have to take into consideration whether any rent default exists. Also since 83.59(3)(d) allows taking of possession if "the landlord has not been notified in writing of the existence of a probate estate or of the name and address of a personal representative." designating a PR in advance could inadvertently affect the value of (3)(d). I would agree to wait to hear what Probate Div. says about it. Neil B. Shoter Partner ________________________________ Shutts & Bowen LLP 1100 CityPlace Tower, 525 Okeechobee Boulevard | West Palm Beach, FL 33401 Direct: (561) 650-8535 | Fax: (561) 822-5525 E-Mail <mailto:NShoter@shutts.com> | Biography <http://www.shutts.com/index.cfm/fa/attorney.bio/atty/466a1d2b-4049-425b -af4b-a56f3cb8a441/Neil_B_Shoter.cfm/> | V-Card <http://www.shutts.com/index.cfm/fa/attorney.vcf/atty/466a1d2b-4049-425b -af4b-a56f3cb8a441/Neil_B_Shoter.cfm/> | Website <http://www.shutts.com/> ________________________________ From: Michael J. Gelfand [mailto:mjgelfand@gelfandarpe.com] Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 10:24 AM To: Boje, Debra Cc: Neil B. Shoter; mengert1@aol.com; BrutonB@gtlaw.com; bfelcoski@gfsestatelaw.com Subject: RPPTL: FW: Security Deposit issue Dear Debra Attached is an email string from Neil Shoter on behalf of the Landlord Tenant Committee concerning a potential bill to change access to rental property after the (only or last remaining?) tenant's death. I perceive that there could be a probate and estate issue here; thus, I pong this to you. Let me know if there is any interest from the Probate Division in this draft proposal. The current statute which I believe was amended recently with the Section's support, states: 83.59 Right of action for possession.- (1) If the rental agreement is terminated and the tenant does not vacate the premises, the landlord may recover possession of the dwelling unit as provided in this section. (2) A landlord, the landlord's attorney, or the landlord's agent, applying for the removal of a tenant shall file in the county court of the county where the premises are situated a complaint describing the dwelling unit and stating the facts that authorize its recovery. A landlord's agent is not permitted to take any action other than the initial filing of the complaint, unless the landlord's agent is an attorney. The landlord is entitled to the summary procedure provided in s. 51.011 [F.S. 1971], and the court shall advance the cause on the calendar. (3) The landlord shall not recover possession of a dwelling unit except: (a) In an action for possession under subsection (2) or other civil action in which the issue of right of possession is determined; (b) When the tenant has surrendered possession of the dwelling unit to the landlord; (c) When the tenant has abandoned the dwelling unit. In the absence of actual knowledge of abandonment, it shall be presumed that the tenant has abandoned the dwelling unit if he or she is absent from the premises for a period of time equal to one-half the time for periodic rental payments. However, this presumption does not apply if the rent is current or the tenant has notified the landlord, in writing, of an intended absence; or (d) When the last remaining tenant of a dwelling unit is deceased, personal property remains on the premises, rent is unpaid, at least 60 days have elapsed following the date of death, and the landlord has not been notified in writing of the existence of a probate estate or of the name and address of a personal representative. This paragraph does not apply to a dwelling unit used in connection with a federally administered or regulated housing program, including programs under s. 202, s. 221(d)(3) and (4), s. 236, or s. 8 of the National Housing Act, as amended. (4) The prevailing party is entitled to have judgment for costs and execution therefor. Neil: I presume, and correct me, that this is not an action item for the Section? If it is to be an item, then please check Legislative Review Committee webpage at www.rpptl.org for the "cookbook" on transforming a proposal into an action item. There appears to be a number of drafting issues. Please also consider whether this may be passive support rather than seeking active lobbyist support. Michael J. Gelfand Florida Bar Board Certified Real Estate Attorney Florida Supreme Court Certified Mediator: Civil Circuit Court & Civil County Court Gelfand & Arpe, P.A. <http://www.gelfandarpe.com/> "Assisting Communities to Efficiently Reach Goals" Regions Financial Tower, Suite 1220 1555 Palm Beach Lakes Blvd. West Palm Beach Florida 33401 (561) 655-6224 This communication/transmission is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) named above and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. Access to this e-mail by anyone else is unauthorized. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, use or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately alert the sender by reply e-mail and permanently delete and destroy this message and any attachments. To reply to our e-mail administrator directly, please send an e-mail to ga@gelfandarpe.com. Nothing contained in this message (including any attachments) shall constitute a contract or electronic signature under the Electronic Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act, any version of the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act or any other statute governing electronic transactions. This e-mail does not provide an opinion, nor without a fee agreement signed by the firm does this confirm representation or counsel. IRS Circular 230 Notice: To ensure compliance with the requirements imposed by the IRS, we inform you that any U.S. tax advice contained in this communication (including any attachments) is not intended or written to be used, and may not be used, for the purpose of (i) avoiding penalties under the Internal Revenue Code or (ii) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any transaction or matter addressed herein. ________________________________ From: Neil B. Shoter [mailto:NShoter@shutts.com] Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 9:45 AM To: safrank@arnstein.com; landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org; Meyer, George J.; Michael J. Gelfand; brutonb@gtlaw.com Cc: Arthur J. Menor Subject: FW: Security Deposit issue If anyone has any comments on the string below, please let me know asap. I received this email relative to a change in law being requested by the Florida Association of Homes and Services for the Aging to allow the tenant while alive to designate someone to get the personal belongings in the event of the tenant 's incapacitation or death. Any comments? Neil B. Shoter Partner ________________________________ Shutts & Bowen LLP 1100 CityPlace Tower, 525 Okeechobee Boulevard | West Palm Beach, FL 33401 Direct: (561) 650-8535 | Fax: (561) 822-5525 E-Mail <mailto:NShoter@shutts.com> | Biography <http://www.shutts.com/index.cfm/fa/attorney.bio/atty/466a1d2b-4049-425b -af4b-a56f3cb8a441/Neil_B_Shoter.cfm/> | V-Card <http://www.shutts.com/index.cfm/fa/attorney.vcf/atty/466a1d2b-4049-425b -af4b-a56f3cb8a441/Neil_B_Shoter.cfm/> | Website <http://www.shutts.com/> ________________________________ From: Mary Ellen Early [mailto:meearly@earthlink.net] Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 10:25 PM To: harry@evict.com; 'Jeff Rogo' Cc: 'Janegale Boyd'; Neil B. Shoter; 'Carol A. Berkowitz' Subject: RE: Security Deposit issue Thank you Harry! Since I am not a lawyer, I am not familiar with this area of law. Therefore, I cannot draft the language. I am not working this week, but I will check my e-mail for ideas from you all. I want to use the bill slot that is being saved for us so I am working on another unrelated idea as well. We do not have a senate sponsor yet, but I am sure we can put our heads together and find one if this works out. How about this concept as a starter? -- 83.59 (3)(d) A landlord may obtain a signed statement from a tenant when the lease is signed or any time thereafter that identifies the tenant's personal representative or another person to contact to remove and provide safe keeping for the tenant's personal property in the event of the tenant's death or incapacity due to an illness that results in the termination of the lease. The person identified in the statement may remove the tenant's personal property and provide for safe keeping thereof in accordance with the tenant's will or written or oral wishes. Mary Ellen Mary Ellen K. Early Senior Vice President of Public Policy Florida Association of Homes and Services for the Aging 2303 Pin Oak Dr. DeLand, Florida 32720 386/738-0503 (Deland) 850/671-3700 (Tallahassee) meearly@earthlink.net ________________________________ From: harry@evict.com [mailto:harry@evict.com] Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 6:24 PM To: 'Mary Ellen Early'; 'Jeff Rogo' Subject: RE: Security Deposit issue Dear Mary Ellen, Anything that helps us get possession of a unit as soon as possible after death is appealing to our industry. The problem is that you cannot accomplish something in a document prior to death regarding personal property as this is part of the estate and there may be no estate opened up. In other words, you cannot bypass the probate or estate process. If the Bar does not mind, I am all for it. As for incapacity, I see no problems. I copied Jeff and let's run it by the Bar. I belong to the Real Property and Trust Law section of the Bar. We need to explain the problem we all face, come up with the wording and have their blessing. Jeff, possibly we need to make this a priority this week. It will help our industry. Harry LAW OFFICES OF HEIST, WEISSE & DAVIS, P.A. PH: 1 800 253 8428 FAX: 1 800 367 9038 "Serving the Property Management Professional" Website: www.evict.com <http://www.evict.com/> Email: harry@evict.com THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS CONFIDENTIAL, ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGED, AND INTENDED FOR THE PERSONS NAMED ABOVE ONLY. ALL OTHER USE, COPYING, OR DISTRIBUTION IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. From: Mary Ellen Early [mailto:meearly@earthlink.net] Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 12:13 PM To: harry@evict.com Subject: RE: Security Deposit issue Dear Harry, A house member saved us a bill slot. If we want to use it, we must have bill language to her by 1/2/09. Do you have any language to address this issue that will not upset the probate section of the bar? Could we add a couple of sentences to current law that says, In conjunction with signing a lease or any time thereafter, a tenant may provide the landlord with the name and contact information for a person responsible for removing and providing safekeeping for the tenant' personal possessions in the event of the death of the tenant or incapacity due to an illness that results in the termination of the lease. The landlord may release the tenant's personal possessions to the designated person. Please let me know by this Monday if you are interested in pursuing a change in the law and if this language will work. We do not have a senate sponsor and we would need the support of the Apartment Association and the Probate section of the Florida Bar to make this work. Thanks, Mary Ellen Mary Ellen K. Early Senior Vice President of Public Policy Florida Association of Homes and Services for the Aging 2303 Pin Oak Dr. DeLand, Florida 32720 386/738-0503 (Deland) 850/671-3700 (Tallahassee) meearly@earthlink.net ________________________________ From: harry@evict.com [mailto:harry@evict.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 5:23 PM To: 'Mary Ellen Early'; 'Jeff Rogo' Cc: 'Gail Matillo'; 'Colleen Bloom' Subject: RE: Security Deposit issue Dear Ms. Early. We had the same concerns. At the time I believe the amendment was proposed, we did not oppose the amendment because we wanted to get the bill passed. We were told that you were able to get possession in 15 days if federally funded. I disagreed with that as it conflicts with probate law but we just let it slide. I copied Jeff Rogo and possibly we can address it. We all have the same concerns with getting back possession without having to go through the time-consuming and expensive probate procedure. Maybe we can clean it up next year. I am a member of the Real Property and Probate Section of the Bar and on the Landlord/Tenant Law Committee this year. Harry Heist LAW OFFICES OF HEIST, WEISSE & LUCREZI, P.A. PH: 1 800 253 8428 FAX: 1 800 367 9038 "Serving the Property Management Professional" Website: www.evict.com Email: harry@evict.com From: Mary Ellen Early [mailto:meearly@earthlink.net] Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 11:55 AM To: harry@evict.com Cc: 'Gail Matillo'; 'Colleen Bloom' Subject: RE: Security Deposit issue Importance: High Dear Harry, I looked up the section of law Jeff Rogo referenced -- 83.59 (3)(d). I do not have his e-mail address to respond so please forward this e-mail to him. We had concerns about 83.59 (3)(d) when it was amended in 2007. A sentence was added for us to exempt HUD financed communities from the subsection because we were not sure the change would help. Most of our affordable housing members are governed by federal law. We are researching the process that they must follow when a resident dies and leaves possessions in the apartment. We know they have 14 days to get the unit ready for the next tenant. We don't know if they can obtain information on the next of kin at the time of move-in and also get written verification from the tenant that they want their property released to that person should they die. How would you propose changing the law? How about authorizing the landlord to obtain a signed statement from the tenant with instructions on who to call and what to do with personal possessions in the event of death? Can they do that now or do they have to wait for probate? I am not an attorney so I don't know what the legal issues would be related to a will that identifies other heirs. When the law talks about a personal representative, I am assuming it means a personal representative named in the will. Do you know? Your association is more familiar because of the research that went into the 2007 law changes. We are interested in the issue and would like to work with your association, but we need to do more research ourselves on federal law governing our HUD housing members. Thanks, Mary Ellen Mary Ellen K. Early Senior Vice President of Public Policy Florida Association of Homes and Services for the Aging 2303 Pin Oak Dr. DeLand, Florida 32720 386/738-0503 (Deland) 850/671-3700 (Tallahassee) meearly@earthlink.net ________________________________ ________________________________ ________________________________ From: harry@evict.com [mailto:harry@evict.com] Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 7:23 PM To: Gail Matillo; 'Jeff Rogo'; 'Kelly Mallette' Subject: Security Deposit issue Dear Gail, This was forwarded to me by Jeff Rogo, Governmental Affairs Director for the Florida Apartment Association. Since you mentioned legislation, one issue that I deal with especially with seniors is the death of the senior in the apartment. While we can now wait 60 days and dispose of any abandoned personal property due to the law change 2 years ago, we cannot ever let relatives into the unit after a death unless a probate estate is opened and a personal representative appointed. Unless the senior is wealthy, no estate is ever opened and it really causes a problem. I would love to see some legislation that would allow a senior tenant or any tenant for that matter to designate in the lease or on a separate document, a person who could enter a unit after death and at the same time not have the landlord liable for what the relative may do to the personal belongings. It is a heart wrenching time when a relative flies in from New Jersey only to be denied access by the landlord. Often all they want is to get some sentimental personal belongings or find a will. Maybe we can all think about something like this and work together. Have a wonderful week, Harry Heist General Counsel to FAA From: Gail Matillo [mailto:gmatillo@fahsa.org] Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 5:03 PM To: Kelly Mallette Subject: 2009 Legislative session Dear Kelly: Are you planning to file any substantial bills in 2009? Does any of the members of the Apartment Association ever have problems with refunding interest from security deposits? We are working on our public policy agendas and I wanted to report if you were planning any bills, etc. for 2009. Thank you, Gail Gail G. Matillo Director of Housing and Program Development Florida Association of Homes and Services for the Aging (FAHSA) 1812 Riggins Road Tallahassee, FL 32308 (850) 671-3700 Fax: (850) 671-3790 Direct: (850) 702-0308 Cell: (850) 294-3415 http://www.fahsa.org LAW OFFICES OF HEIST, WEISSE & LUCREZI, P.A. 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