Empathy List Archives

GT

Glenn T. Williams

Thu, Apr 12, 2012 6:39 PM

Citation is actually, Braverman v. Van Bower, 583 So.2d 381 (Fla. 3rd DCA 1991).

Glenn Todd Williams, Esq., B.C.S.
Construction Lawyer - Board Certified Specialist

Williams Construction Law Firm
4436 Old Winter Garden Road, Suite 100
Orlando, Florida 32811
Telephone: 407-926-4100
Facsimile: 407-926-4105

mailto:gtwlaw@ymail.com glenn@WCLfirm.com

www.WilliamsConstructionLaw.com

Description: Description: H:\HTML Signature Block\Construction Law.gif

This email message including attachments, if any, is intended for the use of the individual or entity named above and may contain attorney-client confidential and/or privileged information. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, use, disclosure, copying, or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email message in error, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message including attachments. Thank you.

Pursuant to federal regulations imposed on practitioners who render tax advice ("Circular 230"), we are required to advise you that any tax advice contained herein is not intended or written to be used for the purpose of avoiding tax penalties that may be imposed by the Internal Revenue Service. If this advice is or is intended to be used or referred to in promoting, marketing or recommending a partnership or other entity, investment plan or arrangement, the regulations under Circular 230 require that we advise you as follows: (1) this writing is not intended or written to be used, and it cannot be used, for the purpose of avoiding tax penalties that may be imposed on a taxpayer; (2) the advice was written to support the promotion or marketing of the transaction(s) or matter(s) addressed by the written advice; and (3) the taxpayer should seek advice based on the taxpayer's particular circumstances from an independent tax advisor.

From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Larry Leiby
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 1:58 PM
To: RPPTL constructionlaw
Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] [RPPTL - QUESTION: no building permit....

See Braverman v. Van Bower, Inc., 558 So.2d 381 (Fla. 3rd DCA 1991).

Larry R. Leiby, Esq.

Malka & Kravitz, P.A.

1300 Sawgrass Corp. Pkwy., Suite 100

Ft. Lauderdale, FL 33323

Phone: 954-514-0984

Fax: 954-514-0985 e-mail: leiby@mkpalaw.com

Board Certified in Construction Law

Fla. Supreme Court Certified Circuit Court Civil Mediator

Member, Leiby Alexander Brandt ADR Group, LLC

Member, JAMS Global Engineering and Construction Panel

Fellow, College of Commercial Arbitrators

From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of mromm@rommlaw.com
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 1:40 PM
To: RPPTL constructionlaw
Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] [RPPTL - QUESTION: no building permit....

Does anybody know the answer to this question:

If general contractor fails to obtain a building permit (at owner's request because it was a small project at a home and the homeowner did not want to wait for or pay for the permit) and owner does not pay, can GC file a lien and foreclose?

I read the following and I am still confused:

§ 553.79. Permits; applications; issuance; inspections [Effective until July 1, 2012]

(1) After the effective date of the Florida Building Code adopted as herein provided, it shall be unlawful for any person, firm, corporation, or governmental entity to construct, erect, alter, modify, repair, or demolish any building within this state without first obtaining a permit therefor from the appropriate enforcing agency or from such persons as may, by appropriate resolution or regulation of the authorized state or local enforcing agency, be delegated authority to issue such permits, upon the payment of such reasonable fees adopted by the enforcing agency. The enforcing agency is empowered to revoke any such permit upon a determination by the agency that the construction, erection, alteration, modification, repair, or demolition of the building for which the permit was issued is in violation of, or not in conformity with, the provisions of the Florida Building Code. Installation, replacement, removal, or metering of any load management control device is exempt from and shall not be subject to the permit process and fees otherwise required by this section.

§ 553.84. Statutory civil action
Notwithstanding any other remedies available, any person or party, in an individual capacity or on behalf of a class of persons or parties, damaged as a result of a violation of this part or the Florida Building Code, has a cause of action in any court of competent jurisdiction against the person or party who committed the violation; however, if the person or party obtains the required building permits and any local government or public agency with authority to enforce the Florida Building Code approves the plans, if the construction project passes all required inspections under the code, and if there is no personal injury or damage to property other than the property that is the subject of the permits, plans, and inspections, this section does not apply unless the person or party knew or should have known that the violation existed.

and Comptech v. Milam Commerce: 711 So.2d 1255 (Fla. 3rd DCA, 1998) which says no statutory cause of action for violating 553.79 under 553.84 because it is barred by economic loss if construction done under a contract....

Help?

Michael Romm

Michael R. Romm, P.A.

1213 S. 30th Avenue, Suite 2, Hollywood, FL 33020

Phone: (954) 557-8002

Fax: (954) 208-0022

mailto:mromm@rommlaw.com mromm@rommlaw.com

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The information and all attachments contained in this electronic communication are legally privileged and confidential information, subject to the attorney-client privilege and intended only for the use of intended recipients. If the reader of this message is not an intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately of the error by return email and please permanently remove any copies of this message from your system and do not retain any copies, whether in electronic or physical form or otherwise. Unauthorized interception of this e-mail is a violation of federal criminal law.

TAX ADVICE DISCLOSURE: Pursuant to the requirements of Internal Revenue Service Circular 230, we advise you that any federal tax advice contained in this communication (including any attachments) is not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of: (1) avoiding penalties that maybe imposed under the Internal Revenue Code or (2) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any transaction or matter addressed in this communication.

Disclaimer regarding Uniform Electronic Transactions Act ("UETA") (Florida Statutes Section 668.50): If this communication concerns negotiation of a contract or agreement, UETA does not apply to this communication; contract formation in this matter shall occur only with manually-affixed original signatures on original documents. Law Offices of Michael R. Romm, P.A.

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] ABA - Construction Law Forum
From: "Michael Kamprath" < mailto:Michael.Kamprath@thresherpa.com Michael.Kamprath@thresherpa.com>
Date: Thu, April 12, 2012 11:55 am
To: "'RPPTL constructionlaw'" < mailto:constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org>

For all the members who wish to get active in the ABA Forum on the Construction Industry, I would encourage you, if you are not already, to join the ABA. Membership is currently free through August 31 along with membership in one Section or Forum. You can do this by going to this site: http://joinaba.org/200916738 http://joinaba.org/200916738 Or by calling 1-800-285-2221 and mention promotion code RMM11MRRC. Once you join the Section or Forum, you will have the opportunity to join a Division or Committee.

Michael T. Kamprath

Board Certified in Construction Law

Thresher & Thresher, P.A.

400 North Tampa Street,

Suite 1320

Tampa, Florida 33602

Phone: 813 229 7744

Facsimile: 813 228 0367

From: mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [ mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Charles Kramer
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 10:43 AM
To: 'RPPTL constructionlaw'
Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] ABA - Construction Law Forum

Division 5. Contract Negotiations, Performance and Admin.

Highest regards,

cid:image0066952.jpg

CONFIDENTIALITY: This electronic message transmission contains information from the law firm Rogers, Morris & Ziegler LLP that is considered confidential or privileged. The information is intended solely for the recipient and use by any other party is not authorized. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify me immediately by telephone (954-462-1431).

From: mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [ mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of mailto:fred.dudley@hklaw.com fred.dudley@hklaw.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 8:45 AM
To: mailto:constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] ABA - Construction Law Forum

As I requested during yesterday meeting, attached from Cary Wright is a list of the 12 divisions of the Forum, which also reflects the members of each division’s Steering Committee. Can you find the one Arnie serves on?

It’s amazing the number of Florida attorneys (and our CLC members) who are active in this Forum, but with George Myer as chair, we should get MORE active.

How about picking one you like and letting us know??

IRS CIRCULAR 230 DISCLOSURE: TO ENSURE COMPLIANCE WITH REQUIREMENTS IMPOSED BY THE IRS, WE INFORM YOU THAT ANY TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS COMMUNICATION (INCLUDING ANY ATTACHMENTS) IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN BY HOLLAND & KNIGHT LLP TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, FOR THE PURPOSE OF (I) AVOIDING TAX-RELATED PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE, OR (II) PROMOTING, MARKETING, OR RECOMMENDING TO ANOTHER PARTY ANY TAX-RELATED MATTER HEREIN.

NOTE: This e-mail is from a law firm, Holland & Knight LLP (“H&K”), and is intended solely for the use of the individual(s) to whom it is addressed. If you believe you received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately, delete the e-mail from your computer and do not copy or disclose it to anyone else. If you are not an existing client of H&K, do not construe anything in this e-mail to make you a client unless it contains a specific statement to that effect and do not disclose anything to H&K in reply that you expect it to hold in confidence. If you properly received this e-mail as a client, co-counsel or retained expert of H&K, you should maintain its contents in confidence in order to preserve the attorney-client or work product privilege that may be available to protect confidentiality.

constructionlaw mailing list
mailto:constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org
http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/constructionlaw http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/constructionlaw

Citation is actually, Braverman v. Van Bower, 583 So.2d 381 (Fla. 3rd DCA 1991). Glenn Todd Williams, Esq., B.C.S. Construction Lawyer - Board Certified Specialist Williams Construction Law Firm 4436 Old Winter Garden Road, Suite 100 Orlando, Florida 32811 Telephone: 407-926-4100 Facsimile: 407-926-4105 <mailto:gtwlaw@ymail.com> glenn@WCLfirm.com www.WilliamsConstructionLaw.com Description: Description: H:\HTML Signature Block\Construction Law.gif This email message including attachments, if any, is intended for the use of the individual or entity named above and may contain attorney-client confidential and/or privileged information. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, use, disclosure, copying, or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email message in error, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message including attachments. Thank you. Pursuant to federal regulations imposed on practitioners who render tax advice ("Circular 230"), we are required to advise you that any tax advice contained herein is not intended or written to be used for the purpose of avoiding tax penalties that may be imposed by the Internal Revenue Service. If this advice is or is intended to be used or referred to in promoting, marketing or recommending a partnership or other entity, investment plan or arrangement, the regulations under Circular 230 require that we advise you as follows: (1) this writing is not intended or written to be used, and it cannot be used, for the purpose of avoiding tax penalties that may be imposed on a taxpayer; (2) the advice was written to support the promotion or marketing of the transaction(s) or matter(s) addressed by the written advice; and (3) the taxpayer should seek advice based on the taxpayer's particular circumstances from an independent tax advisor. From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Larry Leiby Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 1:58 PM To: RPPTL constructionlaw Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] [RPPTL - QUESTION: no building permit.... See Braverman v. Van Bower, Inc., 558 So.2d 381 (Fla. 3rd DCA 1991). Larry R. Leiby, Esq. Malka & Kravitz, P.A. 1300 Sawgrass Corp. Pkwy., Suite 100 Ft. Lauderdale, FL 33323 Phone: 954-514-0984 Fax: 954-514-0985 e-mail: leiby@mkpalaw.com Board Certified in Construction Law Fla. Supreme Court Certified Circuit Court Civil Mediator Member, Leiby Alexander Brandt ADR Group, LLC Member, JAMS Global Engineering and Construction Panel Fellow, College of Commercial Arbitrators From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of mromm@rommlaw.com Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 1:40 PM To: RPPTL constructionlaw Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] [RPPTL - QUESTION: no building permit.... Does anybody know the answer to this question: If general contractor fails to obtain a building permit (at owner's request because it was a small project at a home and the homeowner did not want to wait for or pay for the permit) and owner does not pay, can GC file a lien and foreclose? I read the following and I am still confused: § 553.79. Permits; applications; issuance; inspections [Effective until July 1, 2012] (1) After the effective date of the Florida Building Code adopted as herein provided, it shall be unlawful for any person, firm, corporation, or governmental entity to construct, erect, alter, modify, repair, or demolish any building within this state without first obtaining a permit therefor from the appropriate enforcing agency or from such persons as may, by appropriate resolution or regulation of the authorized state or local enforcing agency, be delegated authority to issue such permits, upon the payment of such reasonable fees adopted by the enforcing agency. The enforcing agency is empowered to revoke any such permit upon a determination by the agency that the construction, erection, alteration, modification, repair, or demolition of the building for which the permit was issued is in violation of, or not in conformity with, the provisions of the Florida Building Code. Installation, replacement, removal, or metering of any load management control device is exempt from and shall not be subject to the permit process and fees otherwise required by this section. § 553.84. Statutory civil action Notwithstanding any other remedies available, any person or party, in an individual capacity or on behalf of a class of persons or parties, damaged as a result of a violation of this part or the Florida Building Code, has a cause of action in any court of competent jurisdiction against the person or party who committed the violation; however, if the person or party obtains the required building permits and any local government or public agency with authority to enforce the Florida Building Code approves the plans, if the construction project passes all required inspections under the code, and if there is no personal injury or damage to property other than the property that is the subject of the permits, plans, and inspections, this section does not apply unless the person or party knew or should have known that the violation existed. and Comptech v. Milam Commerce: 711 So.2d 1255 (Fla. 3rd DCA, 1998) which says no statutory cause of action for violating 553.79 under 553.84 because it is barred by economic loss if construction done under a contract.... Help? Michael Romm Michael R. Romm, P.A. 1213 S. 30th Avenue, Suite 2, Hollywood, FL 33020 Phone: (954) 557-8002 Fax: (954) 208-0022 <mailto:mromm@rommlaw.com> mromm@rommlaw.com CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The information and all attachments contained in this electronic communication are legally privileged and confidential information, subject to the attorney-client privilege and intended only for the use of intended recipients. If the reader of this message is not an intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately of the error by return email and please permanently remove any copies of this message from your system and do not retain any copies, whether in electronic or physical form or otherwise. Unauthorized interception of this e-mail is a violation of federal criminal law. TAX ADVICE DISCLOSURE: Pursuant to the requirements of Internal Revenue Service Circular 230, we advise you that any federal tax advice contained in this communication (including any attachments) is not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of: (1) avoiding penalties that maybe imposed under the Internal Revenue Code or (2) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any transaction or matter addressed in this communication. Disclaimer regarding Uniform Electronic Transactions Act ("UETA") (Florida Statutes Section 668.50): If this communication concerns negotiation of a contract or agreement, UETA does not apply to this communication; contract formation in this matter shall occur only with manually-affixed original signatures on original documents. Law Offices of Michael R. Romm, P.A. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] ABA - Construction Law Forum From: "Michael Kamprath" < <mailto:Michael.Kamprath@thresherpa.com> Michael.Kamprath@thresherpa.com> Date: Thu, April 12, 2012 11:55 am To: "'RPPTL constructionlaw'" < <mailto:constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org> constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org> For all the members who wish to get active in the ABA Forum on the Construction Industry, I would encourage you, if you are not already, to join the ABA. Membership is currently free through August 31 along with membership in one Section or Forum. You can do this by going to this site: <http://joinaba.org/200916738> http://joinaba.org/200916738 Or by calling 1-800-285-2221 and mention promotion code RMM11MRRC. Once you join the Section or Forum, you will have the opportunity to join a Division or Committee. Michael T. Kamprath Board Certified in Construction Law Thresher & Thresher, P.A. 400 North Tampa Street, Suite 1320 Tampa, Florida 33602 Phone: 813 229 7744 Facsimile: 813 228 0367 From: <mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [ <mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Charles Kramer Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 10:43 AM To: 'RPPTL constructionlaw' Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] ABA - Construction Law Forum Division 5. Contract Negotiations, Performance and Admin. Highest regards, cid:image0066952.jpg CONFIDENTIALITY: This electronic message transmission contains information from the law firm Rogers, Morris & Ziegler LLP that is considered confidential or privileged. The information is intended solely for the recipient and use by any other party is not authorized. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify me immediately by telephone (954-462-1431). From: <mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [ <mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of <mailto:fred.dudley@hklaw.com> fred.dudley@hklaw.com Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 8:45 AM To: <mailto:constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org> constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org Subject: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] ABA - Construction Law Forum As I requested during yesterday meeting, attached from Cary Wright is a list of the 12 divisions of the Forum, which also reflects the members of each division’s Steering Committee. Can you find the one Arnie serves on? It’s amazing the number of Florida attorneys (and our CLC members) who are active in this Forum, but with George Myer as chair, we should get MORE active. How about picking one you like and letting us know?? _____ ****IRS CIRCULAR 230 DISCLOSURE: TO ENSURE COMPLIANCE WITH REQUIREMENTS IMPOSED BY THE IRS, WE INFORM YOU THAT ANY TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS COMMUNICATION (INCLUDING ANY ATTACHMENTS) IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN BY HOLLAND & KNIGHT LLP TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, FOR THE PURPOSE OF (I) AVOIDING TAX-RELATED PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE, OR (II) PROMOTING, MARKETING, OR RECOMMENDING TO ANOTHER PARTY ANY TAX-RELATED MATTER HEREIN.**** _____ NOTE: This e-mail is from a law firm, Holland & Knight LLP (“H&K”), and is intended solely for the use of the individual(s) to whom it is addressed. If you believe you received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately, delete the e-mail from your computer and do not copy or disclose it to anyone else. If you are not an existing client of H&K, do not construe anything in this e-mail to make you a client unless it contains a specific statement to that effect and do not disclose anything to H&K in reply that you expect it to hold in confidence. If you properly received this e-mail as a client, co-counsel or retained expert of H&K, you should maintain its contents in confidence in order to preserve the attorney-client or work product privilege that may be available to protect confidentiality. _____ _______________________________________________ constructionlaw mailing list <mailto:constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org> constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org <http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/constructionlaw> http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/constructionlaw

TM

Tom McKeel

Thu, Apr 12, 2012 6:48 PM

This kind of interplay is what makes this website priceless for many of the
members.

From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org
[mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Paul J
Kelly
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 2:18 PM
To: 'RPPTL constructionlaw'
Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] [RPPTL - QUESTION: no
buildingpermit....

What is the total improvement value? §713.13 Notice of Commencement is not
required in many counties if the value is less than $2,500 if over $2,500
I say the GC is out as the licensed contractor should have known better and
therefore relinquished their rights

Sincerely,

Paul J. Kelly

From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org
[mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of
mromm@rommlaw.com
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 1:40 PM
To: RPPTL constructionlaw
Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] [RPPTL - QUESTION: no
buildingpermit....

Does anybody know the answer to this question:

If general contractor fails to obtain a building permit (at owner's request
because it was a small project at a home and the homeowner did not want to
wait for or pay for the permit) and owner does not pay, can GC file a lien
and foreclose?

I read the following and I am still confused:

§ 553.79. Permits; applications; issuance; inspections [Effective until
July 1, 2012]

(1) After the effective date of the Florida Building Code adopted as
herein provided, it shall be unlawful for any person, firm, corporation, or
governmental entity to construct, erect, alter, modify, repair, or demolish
any building within this state without first obtaining a permit therefor
from the appropriate enforcing agency or from such persons as may, by
appropriate resolution or regulation of the authorized state or local
enforcing agency, be delegated authority to issue such permits, upon the
payment of such reasonable fees adopted by the enforcing agency. The
enforcing agency is empowered to revoke any such permit upon a determination
by the agency that the construction, erection, alteration, modification,
repair, or demolition of the building for which the permit was issued is in
violation of, or not in conformity with, the provisions of the Florida
Building Code. Installation, replacement, removal, or metering of any load
management control device is exempt from and shall not be subject to the
permit process and fees otherwise required by this section.

§ 553.84. Statutory civil action
Notwithstanding any other remedies available, any person or party, in an
individual capacity or on behalf of a class of persons or parties, damaged
as a result of a violation of this part or the Florida Building Code, has a
cause of action in any court of competent jurisdiction against the person or
party who committed the violation; however, if the person or party obtains
the required building permits and any local government or public agency with
authority to enforce the Florida Building Code approves the plans, if the
construction project passes all required inspections under the code, and if
there is no personal injury or damage to property other than the property
that is the subject of the permits, plans, and inspections, this section
does not apply unless the person or party knew or should have known that the
violation existed.

and Comptech v. Milam Commerce: 711 So.2d 1255 (Fla. 3rd DCA, 1998) which
says no statutory cause of action for violating 553.79 under 553.84 because
it is barred by economic loss if construction done under a contract....

Help?

Michael Romm

Michael R. Romm, P.A.

1213 S. 30th Avenue, Suite 2, Hollywood, FL 33020

Phone: (954) 557-8002

Fax: (954) 208-0022

mailto:mromm@rommlaw.com mromm@rommlaw.com

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The information and all attachments contained in
this electronic communication are legally privileged and confidential
information, subject to the attorney-client privilege and intended only for
the use of intended recipients. If the reader of this message is not an
intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, use,
dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly
prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify
us immediately of the error by return email and please permanently remove
any copies of this message from your system and do not retain any copies,
whether in electronic or physical form or otherwise. Unauthorized
interception of this e-mail is a violation of federal criminal law.

TAX ADVICE DISCLOSURE: Pursuant to the requirements of Internal Revenue
Service Circular 230, we advise you that any federal tax advice contained in
this communication (including any attachments) is not intended or written to
be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of: (1) avoiding penalties that
maybe imposed under the Internal Revenue Code or (2) promoting, marketing or
recommending to another party any transaction or matter addressed in this
communication.

Disclaimer regarding Uniform Electronic Transactions Act ("UETA") (Florida
Statutes Section 668.50): If this communication concerns negotiation of a
contract or agreement, UETA does not apply to this communication; contract
formation in this matter shall occur only with manually-affixed original
signatures on original documents. Law Offices of Michael R. Romm, P.A.

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] ABA - Construction Law Forum
From: "Michael Kamprath" < mailto:Michael.Kamprath@thresherpa.com
Michael.Kamprath@thresherpa.com>
Date: Thu, April 12, 2012 11:55 am
To: "'RPPTL constructionlaw'" <
mailto:constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org
constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org>

For all the members who wish to get active in the ABA Forum on the
Construction Industry, I would encourage you, if you are not already, to
join the ABA. Membership is currently free through August 31 along with
membership in one Section or Forum. You can do this by going to this site:
http://joinaba.org/200916738 http://joinaba.org/200916738 Or by calling
1-800-285-2221 and mention promotion code RMM11MRRC. Once you join the
Section or Forum, you will have the opportunity to join a Division or
Committee.

Michael T. Kamprath

Board Certified in Construction Law

Thresher & Thresher, P.A.

400 North Tampa Street,

Suite 1320

Tampa, Florida 33602

Phone: 813 229 7744

Facsimile: 813 228 0367

From: mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org
constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [
mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org
mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Charles
Kramer
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 10:43 AM
To: 'RPPTL constructionlaw'
Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] ABA - Construction Law Forum

Division 5. Contract Negotiations, Performance and Admin.

Highest regards,

cid:image0066952.jpg

CONFIDENTIALITY: This electronic message transmission contains information
from the law firm Rogers, Morris & Ziegler LLP that is considered
confidential or privileged. The information is intended solely for the
recipient and use by any other party is not authorized. If you are not the
intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or
use of the contents of this information is prohibited. If you have received
this electronic transmission in error, please notify me immediately by
telephone (954-462-1431).

From: mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org
constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [
mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org
mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of
mailto:fred.dudley@hklaw.com fred.dudley@hklaw.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 8:45 AM
To: mailto:constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org
constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] ABA - Construction Law Forum

As I requested during yesterday meeting, attached from Cary Wright is a list
of the 12 divisions of the Forum, which also reflects the members of each
divisions Steering Committee. Can you find the one Arnie serves on?

Its amazing the number of Florida attorneys (and our CLC members) who are
active in this Forum, but with George Myer as chair, we should get MORE
active.

How about picking one you like and letting us know??

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This kind of interplay is what makes this website priceless for many of the members. _____ From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Paul J Kelly Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 2:18 PM To: 'RPPTL constructionlaw' Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] [RPPTL - QUESTION: no buildingpermit.... What is the total improvement value? §713.13 Notice of Commencement is not required in many counties if the value is less than $2,500 if over $2,500 I say the GC is out as the licensed contractor should have known better and therefore relinquished their rights Sincerely, Paul J. Kelly _____ From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of mromm@rommlaw.com Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 1:40 PM To: RPPTL constructionlaw Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] [RPPTL - QUESTION: no buildingpermit.... Does anybody know the answer to this question: If general contractor fails to obtain a building permit (at owner's request because it was a small project at a home and the homeowner did not want to wait for or pay for the permit) and owner does not pay, can GC file a lien and foreclose? I read the following and I am still confused: § 553.79. Permits; applications; issuance; inspections [Effective until July 1, 2012] (1) After the effective date of the Florida Building Code adopted as herein provided, it shall be unlawful for any person, firm, corporation, or governmental entity to construct, erect, alter, modify, repair, or demolish any building within this state without first obtaining a permit therefor from the appropriate enforcing agency or from such persons as may, by appropriate resolution or regulation of the authorized state or local enforcing agency, be delegated authority to issue such permits, upon the payment of such reasonable fees adopted by the enforcing agency. The enforcing agency is empowered to revoke any such permit upon a determination by the agency that the construction, erection, alteration, modification, repair, or demolition of the building for which the permit was issued is in violation of, or not in conformity with, the provisions of the Florida Building Code. Installation, replacement, removal, or metering of any load management control device is exempt from and shall not be subject to the permit process and fees otherwise required by this section. § 553.84. Statutory civil action Notwithstanding any other remedies available, any person or party, in an individual capacity or on behalf of a class of persons or parties, damaged as a result of a violation of this part or the Florida Building Code, has a cause of action in any court of competent jurisdiction against the person or party who committed the violation; however, if the person or party obtains the required building permits and any local government or public agency with authority to enforce the Florida Building Code approves the plans, if the construction project passes all required inspections under the code, and if there is no personal injury or damage to property other than the property that is the subject of the permits, plans, and inspections, this section does not apply unless the person or party knew or should have known that the violation existed. and Comptech v. Milam Commerce: 711 So.2d 1255 (Fla. 3rd DCA, 1998) which says no statutory cause of action for violating 553.79 under 553.84 because it is barred by economic loss if construction done under a contract.... Help? Michael Romm Michael R. Romm, P.A. 1213 S. 30th Avenue, Suite 2, Hollywood, FL 33020 Phone: (954) 557-8002 Fax: (954) 208-0022 <mailto:mromm@rommlaw.com> mromm@rommlaw.com CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The information and all attachments contained in this electronic communication are legally privileged and confidential information, subject to the attorney-client privilege and intended only for the use of intended recipients. If the reader of this message is not an intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately of the error by return email and please permanently remove any copies of this message from your system and do not retain any copies, whether in electronic or physical form or otherwise. Unauthorized interception of this e-mail is a violation of federal criminal law. TAX ADVICE DISCLOSURE: Pursuant to the requirements of Internal Revenue Service Circular 230, we advise you that any federal tax advice contained in this communication (including any attachments) is not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of: (1) avoiding penalties that maybe imposed under the Internal Revenue Code or (2) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any transaction or matter addressed in this communication. Disclaimer regarding Uniform Electronic Transactions Act ("UETA") (Florida Statutes Section 668.50): If this communication concerns negotiation of a contract or agreement, UETA does not apply to this communication; contract formation in this matter shall occur only with manually-affixed original signatures on original documents. Law Offices of Michael R. Romm, P.A. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] ABA - Construction Law Forum From: "Michael Kamprath" < <mailto:Michael.Kamprath@thresherpa.com> Michael.Kamprath@thresherpa.com> Date: Thu, April 12, 2012 11:55 am To: "'RPPTL constructionlaw'" < <mailto:constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org> constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org> For all the members who wish to get active in the ABA Forum on the Construction Industry, I would encourage you, if you are not already, to join the ABA. Membership is currently free through August 31 along with membership in one Section or Forum. You can do this by going to this site: <http://joinaba.org/200916738> http://joinaba.org/200916738 Or by calling 1-800-285-2221 and mention promotion code RMM11MRRC. Once you join the Section or Forum, you will have the opportunity to join a Division or Committee. Michael T. Kamprath Board Certified in Construction Law Thresher & Thresher, P.A. 400 North Tampa Street, Suite 1320 Tampa, Florida 33602 Phone: 813 229 7744 Facsimile: 813 228 0367 From: <mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [ <mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Charles Kramer Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 10:43 AM To: 'RPPTL constructionlaw' Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] ABA - Construction Law Forum Division 5. Contract Negotiations, Performance and Admin. Highest regards, cid:image0066952.jpg CONFIDENTIALITY: This electronic message transmission contains information from the law firm Rogers, Morris & Ziegler LLP that is considered confidential or privileged. The information is intended solely for the recipient and use by any other party is not authorized. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify me immediately by telephone (954-462-1431). From: <mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [ <mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of <mailto:fred.dudley@hklaw.com> fred.dudley@hklaw.com Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 8:45 AM To: <mailto:constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org> constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org Subject: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] ABA - Construction Law Forum As I requested during yesterday meeting, attached from Cary Wright is a list of the 12 divisions of the Forum, which also reflects the members of each divisions Steering Committee. Can you find the one Arnie serves on? Its amazing the number of Florida attorneys (and our CLC members) who are active in this Forum, but with George Myer as chair, we should get MORE active. How about picking one you like and letting us know?? _____ ****IRS CIRCULAR 230 DISCLOSURE: TO ENSURE COMPLIANCE WITH REQUIREMENTS IMPOSED BY THE IRS, WE INFORM YOU THAT ANY TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS COMMUNICATION (INCLUDING ANY ATTACHMENTS) IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN BY HOLLAND & KNIGHT LLP TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, FOR THE PURPOSE OF (I) AVOIDING TAX-RELATED PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE, OR (II) PROMOTING, MARKETING, OR RECOMMENDING TO ANOTHER PARTY ANY TAX-RELATED MATTER HEREIN.**** _____ NOTE: This e-mail is from a law firm, Holland & Knight LLP (H&K), and is intended solely for the use of the individual(s) to whom it is addressed. If you believe you received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately, delete the e-mail from your computer and do not copy or disclose it to anyone else. If you are not an existing client of H&K, do not construe anything in this e-mail to make you a client unless it contains a specific statement to that effect and do not disclose anything to H&K in reply that you expect it to hold in confidence. If you properly received this e-mail as a client, co-counsel or retained expert of H&K, you should maintain its contents in confidence in order to preserve the attorney-client or work product privilege that may be available to protect confidentiality. _____ _______________________________________________ constructionlaw mailing list <mailto:constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org> constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org <http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/constructionlaw> http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/constructionlaw

EK

Ed Kinberg

Thu, Apr 12, 2012 6:58 PM

I agree with your conclusion about Braverman.

I do think trying to enforce a lien under these facts is going to create a substantial problem and the vast majority of courts would find the agreement was intended to violate the law (if a permit was required) and will find that the Court's cannot be used to enforce an agreement that is illegal.

ed

Ed Kinberg

Fellow, National Contract Management Association

Board Certified, Construction Law Attorney

Government Contract Law, Construction Law, and Business Law

Attorneys At Law

1290 W. Eau Gallie Boulevard

Melbourne, FL 32935

Tel. (321) 259-1910

Fax (321) 259-1996

www.kblegal.com http://www.kblegal.com

This message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain information that is PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by telephone, and return the original to us by mail without making a copy. Thank you.

Replies Filtered: Any incoming reply to this e-mail communication or other e-mail communication to us will be electronically filtered for "spam" and/or "viruses." That filtering process may result in such reply or other e-mail communications to us being quarantined (i.e., potentially not received at our site at all) and/or delayed in reaching us. For that reason, we cannot guarantee that we will receive your reply or other e-mail communications to us and/or that we will receive the same in a timely manner. Accordingly, you should consider sending communications to us which are particularly important or time-sensitive by means other than e-mail.

From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Gibbons, Michael
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 2:32 PM
To: 'RPPTL constructionlaw'
Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] [RPPTL - QUESTION:no building permit....

Thanks Larry. I was not aware of the Braverman decision. However, I don't think it applies on these facts because the homeowner apparently contracted with the GC not to obtain a permit. In Braverman, the opposite occurred: owner's contract with GC expressly required GC to get the permit.Court relied on the express breach of contract in failing to obtain permit to hold that contractor had not performed and therefore had not earned the monies claimed in the lien. The Braverman decision was grounded on an express contractual undertaking not apparently present in the facts presented.

Michael R. Gibbons (Bio http://lowndes-law.com/our-people/michael-r-gibbons )
Shareholder
Lowndes, Drosdick, Doster, Kantor & Reed, P.A.
450 South Orange Avenue, 8th Floor
Orlando, FL 32801
Phone: 407-418-6378
Fax: 407-843-4444
email: michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.com mailto:michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.com
website: http://www.lowndes-law.com http://www.lowndes-law.com/

From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Larry Leiby
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 1:58 PM
To: RPPTL constructionlaw
Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] [RPPTL - QUESTION: no building permit....

See Braverman v. Van Bower, Inc., 558 So.2d 381 (Fla. 3rd DCA 1991).

Larry R. Leiby, Esq.

Malka & Kravitz, P.A.

1300 Sawgrass Corp. Pkwy., Suite 100

Ft. Lauderdale, FL 33323

Phone: 954-514-0984

Fax: 954-514-0985 e-mail: leiby@mkpalaw.com

Board Certified in Construction Law

Fla. Supreme Court Certified Circuit Court Civil Mediator

Member, Leiby Alexander Brandt ADR Group, LLC

Member, JAMS Global Engineering and Construction Panel

Fellow, College of Commercial Arbitrators

From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of mromm@rommlaw.com
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 1:40 PM
To: RPPTL constructionlaw
Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] [RPPTL - QUESTION: no building permit....

Does anybody know the answer to this question:

If general contractor fails to obtain a building permit (at owner's request because it was a small project at a home and the homeowner did not want to wait for or pay for the permit) and owner does not pay, can GC file a lien and foreclose?

I read the following and I am still confused:

§ 553.79. Permits; applications; issuance; inspections [Effective until July 1, 2012]

(1) After the effective date of the Florida Building Code adopted as herein provided, it shall be unlawful for any person, firm, corporation, or governmental entity to construct, erect, alter, modify, repair, or demolish any building within this state without first obtaining a permit therefor from the appropriate enforcing agency or from such persons as may, by appropriate resolution or regulation of the authorized state or local enforcing agency, be delegated authority to issue such permits, upon the payment of such reasonable fees adopted by the enforcing agency. The enforcing agency is empowered to revoke any such permit upon a determination by the agency that the construction, erection, alteration, modification, repair, or demolition of the building for which the permit was issued is in violation of, or not in conformity with, the provisions of the Florida Building Code. Installation, replacement, removal, or metering of any load management control device is exempt from and shall not be subject to the permit process and fees otherwise required by this section.

§ 553.84. Statutory civil action
Notwithstanding any other remedies available, any person or party, in an individual capacity or on behalf of a class of persons or parties, damaged as a result of a violation of this part or the Florida Building Code, has a cause of action in any court of competent jurisdiction against the person or party who committed the violation; however, if the person or party obtains the required building permits and any local government or public agency with authority to enforce the Florida Building Code approves the plans, if the construction project passes all required inspections under the code, and if there is no personal injury or damage to property other than the property that is the subject of the permits, plans, and inspections, this section does not apply unless the person or party knew or should have known that the violation existed.

and Comptech v. Milam Commerce: 711 So.2d 1255 (Fla. 3rd DCA, 1998) which says no statutory cause of action for violating 553.79 under 553.84 because it is barred by economic loss if construction done under a contract....

Help?

Michael Romm

Michael R. Romm, P.A.

1213 S. 30th Avenue, Suite 2, Hollywood, FL 33020

Phone: (954) 557-8002

Fax: (954) 208-0022

mromm@rommlaw.com mailto:mromm@rommlaw.com

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The information and all attachments contained in this electronic communication are legally privileged and confidential information, subject to the attorney-client privilege and intended only for the use of intended recipients. If the reader of this message is not an intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately of the error by return email and please permanently remove any copies of this message from your system and do not retain any copies, whether in electronic or physical form or otherwise. Unauthorized interception of this e-mail is a violation of federal criminal law.

TAX ADVICE DISCLOSURE: Pursuant to the requirements of Internal Revenue Service Circular 230, we advise you that any federal tax advice contained in this communication (including any attachments) is not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of: (1) avoiding penalties that maybe imposed under the Internal Revenue Code or (2) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any transaction or matter addressed in this communication.

Disclaimer regarding Uniform Electronic Transactions Act ("UETA") (Florida Statutes Section 668.50): If this communication concerns negotiation of a contract or agreement, UETA does not apply to this communication; contract formation in this matter shall occur only with manually-affixed original signatures on original documents. Law Offices of Michael R. Romm, P.A.

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] ABA - Construction Law Forum
From: "Michael Kamprath" <Michael.Kamprath@thresherpa.com <mailto:Michael.Kamprath@thresherpa.com> >
Date: Thu, April 12, 2012 11:55 am
To: "'RPPTL constructionlaw'" <constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org <mailto:constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org> >

For all the members who wish to get active in the ABA Forum on the Construction Industry, I would encourage you, if you are not already, to join the ABA.  Membership is currently free through August 31 along with membership in one Section or Forum.  You can do this by going to this site: http://joinaba.org/200916738 <http://joinaba.org/200916738>  Or by calling 1-800-285-2221 and mention promotion code RMM11MRRC.  Once you join the Section or Forum, you will have the opportunity to join a Division or Committee.

Michael T. Kamprath

Board Certified in Construction Law

Thresher & Thresher, P.A.

400 North Tampa Street,

Suite 1320

Tampa, Florida 33602

Phone: 813 229 7744

Facsimile: 813 228 0367

From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org>  [mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> ] On Behalf Of Charles Kramer
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 10:43 AM
To: 'RPPTL constructionlaw'
Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] ABA - Construction Law Forum

Division 5. Contract Negotiations, Performance and Admin.

Highest regards, 

CONFIDENTIALITY: This electronic message transmission contains information from the law firm Rogers, Morris & Ziegler LLP that is considered confidential or privileged.  The information is intended solely for the recipient and use by any other party is not authorized.  If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify me immediately by telephone (954-462-1431).

From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org>  [mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> ] On Behalf Of fred.dudley@hklaw.com <mailto:fred.dudley@hklaw.com> 
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 8:45 AM
To: constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org <mailto:constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org> 
Subject: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] ABA - Construction Law Forum

As I requested during yesterday meeting, attached from Cary Wright is a list of the 12 divisions of the Forum, which also reflects the members of each division's Steering Committee. Can you find the one Arnie serves on?       

It's amazing the number of Florida attorneys (and our CLC members) who are active in this Forum, but with George Myer as chair, we should get MORE active.

How about picking one you like and letting us know??

****IRS CIRCULAR 230 DISCLOSURE: TO ENSURE COMPLIANCE WITH REQUIREMENTS IMPOSED BY THE IRS, WE INFORM YOU THAT ANY TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS COMMUNICATION (INCLUDING ANY ATTACHMENTS) IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN BY HOLLAND & KNIGHT LLP TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, FOR THE PURPOSE OF (I) AVOIDING TAX-RELATED PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE, OR (II) PROMOTING, MARKETING, OR RECOMMENDING TO ANOTHER PARTY ANY TAX-RELATED MATTER HEREIN.****

NOTE: This e-mail is from a law firm, Holland & Knight LLP ("H&K"), and is intended solely for the use of the individual(s) to whom it is addressed. If you believe you received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately, delete the e-mail from your computer and do not copy or disclose it to anyone else. If you are not an existing client of H&K, do not construe anything in this e-mail to make you a client unless it contains a specific statement to that effect and do not disclose anything to H&K in reply that you expect it to hold in confidence. If you properly received this e-mail as a client, co-counsel or retained expert of H&K, you should maintain its contents in confidence in order to preserve the attorney-client or work product privilege that may be available to protect confidentiality.

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I agree with your conclusion about Braverman. I do think trying to enforce a lien under these facts is going to create a substantial problem and the vast majority of courts would find the agreement was intended to violate the law (if a permit was required) and will find that the Court's cannot be used to enforce an agreement that is illegal. ed Ed Kinberg Fellow, National Contract Management Association Board Certified, Construction Law Attorney Government Contract Law, Construction Law, and Business Law Attorneys At Law 1290 W. Eau Gallie Boulevard Melbourne, FL 32935 Tel. (321) 259-1910 Fax (321) 259-1996 www.kblegal.com <http://www.kblegal.com> This message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain information that is PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by telephone, and return the original to us by mail without making a copy. Thank you. Replies Filtered: Any incoming reply to this e-mail communication or other e-mail communication to us will be electronically filtered for "spam" and/or "viruses." That filtering process may result in such reply or other e-mail communications to us being quarantined (i.e., potentially not received at our site at all) and/or delayed in reaching us. For that reason, we cannot guarantee that we will receive your reply or other e-mail communications to us and/or that we will receive the same in a timely manner. Accordingly, you should consider sending communications to us which are particularly important or time-sensitive by means other than e-mail. From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Gibbons, Michael Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 2:32 PM To: 'RPPTL constructionlaw' Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] [RPPTL - QUESTION:no building permit.... Thanks Larry. I was not aware of the Braverman decision. However, I don't think it applies on these facts because the homeowner apparently contracted with the GC not to obtain a permit. In Braverman, the opposite occurred: owner's contract with GC expressly required GC to get the permit.Court relied on the express breach of contract in failing to obtain permit to hold that contractor had not performed and therefore had not earned the monies claimed in the lien. The Braverman decision was grounded on an express contractual undertaking not apparently present in the facts presented. Michael R. Gibbons (Bio <http://lowndes-law.com/our-people/michael-r-gibbons> ) Shareholder Lowndes, Drosdick, Doster, Kantor & Reed, P.A. 450 South Orange Avenue, 8th Floor Orlando, FL 32801 Phone: 407-418-6378 Fax: 407-843-4444 email: michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.com <mailto:michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.com> website: http://www.lowndes-law.com <http://www.lowndes-law.com/> ________________________________ From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Larry Leiby Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 1:58 PM To: RPPTL constructionlaw Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] [RPPTL - QUESTION: no building permit.... See Braverman v. Van Bower, Inc., 558 So.2d 381 (Fla. 3rd DCA 1991). Larry R. Leiby, Esq. Malka & Kravitz, P.A. 1300 Sawgrass Corp. Pkwy., Suite 100 Ft. Lauderdale, FL 33323 Phone: 954-514-0984 Fax: 954-514-0985 e-mail: leiby@mkpalaw.com Board Certified in Construction Law Fla. Supreme Court Certified Circuit Court Civil Mediator Member, Leiby Alexander Brandt ADR Group, LLC Member, JAMS Global Engineering and Construction Panel Fellow, College of Commercial Arbitrators From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of mromm@rommlaw.com Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 1:40 PM To: RPPTL constructionlaw Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] [RPPTL - QUESTION: no building permit.... Does anybody know the answer to this question: If general contractor fails to obtain a building permit (at owner's request because it was a small project at a home and the homeowner did not want to wait for or pay for the permit) and owner does not pay, can GC file a lien and foreclose? I read the following and I am still confused: § 553.79. Permits; applications; issuance; inspections [Effective until July 1, 2012] (1) After the effective date of the Florida Building Code adopted as herein provided, it shall be unlawful for any person, firm, corporation, or governmental entity to construct, erect, alter, modify, repair, or demolish any building within this state without first obtaining a permit therefor from the appropriate enforcing agency or from such persons as may, by appropriate resolution or regulation of the authorized state or local enforcing agency, be delegated authority to issue such permits, upon the payment of such reasonable fees adopted by the enforcing agency. The enforcing agency is empowered to revoke any such permit upon a determination by the agency that the construction, erection, alteration, modification, repair, or demolition of the building for which the permit was issued is in violation of, or not in conformity with, the provisions of the Florida Building Code. Installation, replacement, removal, or metering of any load management control device is exempt from and shall not be subject to the permit process and fees otherwise required by this section. § 553.84. Statutory civil action Notwithstanding any other remedies available, any person or party, in an individual capacity or on behalf of a class of persons or parties, damaged as a result of a violation of this part or the Florida Building Code, has a cause of action in any court of competent jurisdiction against the person or party who committed the violation; however, if the person or party obtains the required building permits and any local government or public agency with authority to enforce the Florida Building Code approves the plans, if the construction project passes all required inspections under the code, and if there is no personal injury or damage to property other than the property that is the subject of the permits, plans, and inspections, this section does not apply unless the person or party knew or should have known that the violation existed. and Comptech v. Milam Commerce: 711 So.2d 1255 (Fla. 3rd DCA, 1998) which says no statutory cause of action for violating 553.79 under 553.84 because it is barred by economic loss if construction done under a contract.... Help? Michael Romm Michael R. Romm, P.A. 1213 S. 30th Avenue, Suite 2, Hollywood, FL 33020 Phone: (954) 557-8002 Fax: (954) 208-0022 mromm@rommlaw.com <mailto:mromm@rommlaw.com> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The information and all attachments contained in this electronic communication are legally privileged and confidential information, subject to the attorney-client privilege and intended only for the use of intended recipients. If the reader of this message is not an intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately of the error by return email and please permanently remove any copies of this message from your system and do not retain any copies, whether in electronic or physical form or otherwise. Unauthorized interception of this e-mail is a violation of federal criminal law. TAX ADVICE DISCLOSURE: Pursuant to the requirements of Internal Revenue Service Circular 230, we advise you that any federal tax advice contained in this communication (including any attachments) is not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of: (1) avoiding penalties that maybe imposed under the Internal Revenue Code or (2) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any transaction or matter addressed in this communication. Disclaimer regarding Uniform Electronic Transactions Act ("UETA") (Florida Statutes Section 668.50): If this communication concerns negotiation of a contract or agreement, UETA does not apply to this communication; contract formation in this matter shall occur only with manually-affixed original signatures on original documents. Law Offices of Michael R. Romm, P.A. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] ABA - Construction Law Forum From: "Michael Kamprath" <Michael.Kamprath@thresherpa.com <mailto:Michael.Kamprath@thresherpa.com> > Date: Thu, April 12, 2012 11:55 am To: "'RPPTL constructionlaw'" <constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org <mailto:constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org> > For all the members who wish to get active in the ABA Forum on the Construction Industry, I would encourage you, if you are not already, to join the ABA. Membership is currently free through August 31 along with membership in one Section or Forum. You can do this by going to this site: http://joinaba.org/200916738 <http://joinaba.org/200916738> Or by calling 1-800-285-2221 and mention promotion code RMM11MRRC. Once you join the Section or Forum, you will have the opportunity to join a Division or Committee. Michael T. Kamprath Board Certified in Construction Law Thresher & Thresher, P.A. 400 North Tampa Street, Suite 1320 Tampa, Florida 33602 Phone: 813 229 7744 Facsimile: 813 228 0367 From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> [mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> ] On Behalf Of Charles Kramer Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 10:43 AM To: 'RPPTL constructionlaw' Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] ABA - Construction Law Forum Division 5. Contract Negotiations, Performance and Admin. Highest regards, CONFIDENTIALITY: This electronic message transmission contains information from the law firm Rogers, Morris & Ziegler LLP that is considered confidential or privileged. The information is intended solely for the recipient and use by any other party is not authorized. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify me immediately by telephone (954-462-1431). From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> [mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> ] On Behalf Of fred.dudley@hklaw.com <mailto:fred.dudley@hklaw.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 8:45 AM To: constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org <mailto:constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org> Subject: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] ABA - Construction Law Forum As I requested during yesterday meeting, attached from Cary Wright is a list of the 12 divisions of the Forum, which also reflects the members of each division's Steering Committee. Can you find the one Arnie serves on? It's amazing the number of Florida attorneys (and our CLC members) who are active in this Forum, but with George Myer as chair, we should get MORE active. How about picking one you like and letting us know?? ________________________________ ****IRS CIRCULAR 230 DISCLOSURE: TO ENSURE COMPLIANCE WITH REQUIREMENTS IMPOSED BY THE IRS, WE INFORM YOU THAT ANY TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS COMMUNICATION (INCLUDING ANY ATTACHMENTS) IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN BY HOLLAND & KNIGHT LLP TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, FOR THE PURPOSE OF (I) AVOIDING TAX-RELATED PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE, OR (II) PROMOTING, MARKETING, OR RECOMMENDING TO ANOTHER PARTY ANY TAX-RELATED MATTER HEREIN.**** ________________________________ NOTE: This e-mail is from a law firm, Holland & Knight LLP ("H&K"), and is intended solely for the use of the individual(s) to whom it is addressed. If you believe you received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately, delete the e-mail from your computer and do not copy or disclose it to anyone else. If you are not an existing client of H&K, do not construe anything in this e-mail to make you a client unless it contains a specific statement to that effect and do not disclose anything to H&K in reply that you expect it to hold in confidence. If you properly received this e-mail as a client, co-counsel or retained expert of H&K, you should maintain its contents in confidence in order to preserve the attorney-client or work product privilege that may be available to protect confidentiality. ________________________________ _______________________________________________ constructionlaw mailing list constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org <mailto:constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org> http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/constructionlaw <http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/constructionlaw> Notice of Confidentiality: This e-mail communication and the attachment(s) hereto, if any, are intended solely for the information and use of the addressee(s) identified above and may contain information which is legally privileged from disclosure and/or otherwise confidential. If a recipient of this e-mail communication is not an addressee (or an authorized representative of an addressee), such recipient is hereby advised that any review, disclosure, reproduction, re-transmission or other dissemination or use of this e-mail communication (or any information contained herein) is strictly prohibited. If you are not an addressee and have received this e-mail communication in error, please advise the sender of that circumstance either by reply e-mail or by telephone at (800) 356-6818, immediately delete this e-mail communication from any computer and destroy all physical copies of same. Replies Filtered: Any incoming reply to this e-mail communication or other e-mail communication to us will be electronically filtered for "spam" and/or "viruses." That filtering process may result in such reply or other e-mail communications to us being quarantined (i.e., potentially not received at our site at all) and/or delayed in reaching us. For that reason, we cannot guarantee that we will receive your reply or other e-mail communications to us and/or that we will receive the same in a timely manner. Accordingly, you should consider sending communications to us which are particularly important or time-sensitive by means other than e-mail. Notice Under U.S. Treasury Department Circular 230: To the extent that this e-mail communication and the attachment(s) hereto, if any, may contain written advice concerning or relating to a Federal (U.S.) tax issue, United States Treasury Department Regulations (Circular 230) require that we (and we do hereby) advise and disclose to you that, unless we expressly state otherwise in writing, such tax advice is not written or intended to be used, and cannot be used by you (the addressee), or other person(s), for purposes of (1) avoiding penalties imposed under the United States Internal Revenue Code or (2) promoting, marketing or recommending to any other person(s) the (or any of the) transaction(s) or matter(s) addressed, discussed or referenced herein. Each taxpayer should seek advice from an independent tax advisor with respect to any Federal tax issue(s), transaction(s) or matter(s) addressed, discussed or referenced herein based upon his, her or its particular circumstances. [v4.30]

CM

Carlton Miller

Thu, Apr 12, 2012 7:35 PM

County court case, 17th Judicial Circuit – A & W Electric of Hollywood, Inc. v. John Ebanks, et al., 19 Fla. L. Weekly Supp. 59-60 (Oct. 26, 2011).

Carlton D. Miller, Esq.
Board Certified in Construction Law
Moye, O’Brien, O’Rourke, Pickert & Dillon, LLP
800 South Orlando Avenue
Maitland, Florida 32751
407.622.5250
407.622.5440 (fax)
cmiller@moopd.com mailto:cmiller@moopd.com

[Description: Description: Description: cid:image0062621.jpg]

[Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail, the information contained herein, and any attachments hereto, are intended only for the addressee(s) listed above, and is privileged and confidential. Any unauthorized interception, use or disclosure hereof is strictly prohibited.]

From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of mromm@rommlaw.com
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 1:40 PM
To: RPPTL constructionlaw
Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] [RPPTL - QUESTION: no building permit....

Does anybody know the answer to this question:

If general contractor fails to obtain a building permit (at owner's request because it was a small project at a home and the homeowner did not want to wait for or pay for the permit) and owner does not pay, can GC file a lien and foreclose?

I read the following and I am still confused:

§ 553.79. Permits; applications; issuance; inspections [Effective until July 1, 2012]

(1) After the effective date of the Florida Building Code adopted as herein provided, it shall be unlawful for any person, firm, corporation, or governmental entity to construct, erect, alter, modify, repair, or demolish any building within this state without first obtaining a permit therefor from the appropriate enforcing agency or from such persons as may, by appropriate resolution or regulation of the authorized state or local enforcing agency, be delegated authority to issue such permits, upon the payment of such reasonable fees adopted by the enforcing agency. The enforcing agency is empowered to revoke any such permit upon a determination by the agency that the construction, erection, alteration, modification, repair, or demolition of the building for which the permit was issued is in violation of, or not in conformity with, the provisions of the Florida Building Code. Installation, replacement, removal, or metering of any load management control device is exempt from and shall not be subject to the permit process and fees otherwise required by this section.

§ 553.84. Statutory civil action
Notwithstanding any other remedies available, any person or party, in an individual capacity or on behalf of a class of persons or parties, damaged as a result of a violation of this part or the Florida Building Code, has a cause of action in any court of competent jurisdiction against the person or party who committed the violation; however, if the person or party obtains the required building permits and any local government or public agency with authority to enforce the Florida Building Code approves the plans, if the construction project passes all required inspections under the code, and if there is no personal injury or damage to property other than the property that is the subject of the permits, plans, and inspections, this section does not apply unless the person or party knew or should have known that the violation existed.

and Comptech v. Milam Commerce: 711 So.2d 1255 (Fla. 3rd DCA, 1998) which says no statutory cause of action for violating 553.79 under 553.84 because it is barred by economic loss if construction done under a contract....

Help?

Michael Romm
Michael R. Romm, P.A.
1213 S. 30th Avenue, Suite 2, Hollywood, FL 33020
Phone: (954) 557-8002
Fax: (954) 208-0022
mromm@rommlaw.com mailto:mromm@rommlaw.com

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The information and all attachments contained in this electronic communication are legally privileged and confidential information, subject to the attorney-client privilege and intended only for the use of intended recipients. If the reader of this message is not an intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately of the error by return email and please permanently remove any copies of this message from your system and do not retain any copies, whether in electronic or physical form or otherwise. Unauthorized interception of this e-mail is a violation of federal criminal law.

TAX ADVICE DISCLOSURE: Pursuant to the requirements of Internal Revenue Service Circular 230, we advise you that any federal tax advice contained in this communication (including any attachments) is not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of: (1) avoiding penalties that maybe imposed under the Internal Revenue Code or (2) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any transaction or matter addressed in this communication.

Disclaimer regarding Uniform Electronic Transactions Act ("UETA") (Florida Statutes Section 668.50): If this communication concerns negotiation of a contract or agreement, UETA does not apply to this communication; contract formation in this matter shall occur only with manually-affixed original signatures on original documents. Law Offices of Michael R. Romm, P.A.

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] ABA - Construction Law Forum
From: "Michael Kamprath" <Michael.Kamprath@thresherpa.com mailto:Michael.Kamprath@thresherpa.com>
Date: Thu, April 12, 2012 11:55 am
To: "'RPPTL constructionlaw'" <constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org>
For all the members who wish to get active in the ABA Forum on the Construction Industry, I would encourage you, if you are not already, to join the ABA. Membership is currently free through August 31 along with membership in one Section or Forum. You can do this by going to this site: http://joinaba.org/200916738 Or by calling 1-800-285-2221 and mention promotion code RMM11MRRC. Once you join the Section or Forum, you will have the opportunity to join a Division or Committee.

Michael T. Kamprath
Board Certified in Construction Law

Thresher & Thresher, P.A.
400 North Tampa Street,
Suite 1320
Tampa, Florida 33602
Phone: 813 229 7744
Facsimile: 813 228 0367

From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Charles Kramer
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 10:43 AM
To: 'RPPTL constructionlaw'
Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] ABA - Construction Law Forum

Division 5. Contract Negotiations, Performance and Admin.

Highest regards,

[cid:image003.png@01CD18C1.DBD1B1C0][cid:image0066952.jpg]

CONFIDENTIALITY: This electronic message transmission contains information from the law firm Rogers, Morris & Ziegler LLP that is considered confidential or privileged. The information is intended solely for the recipient and use by any other party is not authorized. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify me immediately by telephone (954-462-1431).

From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of fred.dudley@hklaw.com mailto:fred.dudley@hklaw.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 8:45 AM
To: constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] ABA - Construction Law Forum

As I requested during yesterday meeting, attached from Cary Wright is a list of the 12 divisions of the Forum, which also reflects the members of each division’s Steering Committee. Can you find the one Arnie serves on?

It’s amazing the number of Florida attorneys (and our CLC members) who are active in this Forum, but with George Myer as chair, we should get MORE active.

How about picking one you like and letting us know??

IRS CIRCULAR 230 DISCLOSURE: TO ENSURE COMPLIANCE WITH REQUIREMENTS IMPOSED BY THE IRS, WE INFORM YOU THAT ANY TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS COMMUNICATION (INCLUDING ANY ATTACHMENTS) IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN BY HOLLAND & KNIGHT LLP TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, FOR THE PURPOSE OF (I) AVOIDING TAX-RELATED PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE, OR (II) PROMOTING, MARKETING, OR RECOMMENDING TO ANOTHER PARTY ANY TAX-RELATED MATTER HEREIN.

NOTE: This e-mail is from a law firm, Holland & Knight LLP (“H&K”), and is intended solely for the use of the individual(s) to whom it is addressed. If you believe you received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately, delete the e-mail from your computer and do not copy or disclose it to anyone else. If you are not an existing client of H&K, do not construe anything in this e-mail to make you a client unless it contains a specific statement to that effect and do not disclose anything to H&K in reply that you expect it to hold in confidence. If you properly received this e-mail as a client, co-counsel or retained expert of H&K, you should maintain its contents in confidence in order to preserve the attorney-client or work product privilege that may be available to protect confidentiality.

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http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/constructionlaw

County court case, 17th Judicial Circuit – A & W Electric of Hollywood, Inc. v. John Ebanks, et al., 19 Fla. L. Weekly Supp. 59-60 (Oct. 26, 2011). Carlton D. Miller, Esq. Board Certified in Construction Law Moye, O’Brien, O’Rourke, Pickert & Dillon, LLP 800 South Orlando Avenue Maitland, Florida 32751 407.622.5250 407.622.5440 (fax) cmiller@moopd.com<mailto:cmiller@moopd.com> [Description: Description: Description: cid:image0062621.jpg] [Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail, the information contained herein, and any attachments hereto, are intended only for the addressee(s) listed above, and is privileged and confidential. Any unauthorized interception, use or disclosure hereof is strictly prohibited.] From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of mromm@rommlaw.com Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 1:40 PM To: RPPTL constructionlaw Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] [RPPTL - QUESTION: no building permit.... Does anybody know the answer to this question: If general contractor fails to obtain a building permit (at owner's request because it was a small project at a home and the homeowner did not want to wait for or pay for the permit) and owner does not pay, can GC file a lien and foreclose? I read the following and I am still confused: § 553.79. Permits; applications; issuance; inspections [Effective until July 1, 2012] (1) After the effective date of the Florida Building Code adopted as herein provided, it shall be unlawful for any person, firm, corporation, or governmental entity to construct, erect, alter, modify, repair, or demolish any building within this state without first obtaining a permit therefor from the appropriate enforcing agency or from such persons as may, by appropriate resolution or regulation of the authorized state or local enforcing agency, be delegated authority to issue such permits, upon the payment of such reasonable fees adopted by the enforcing agency. The enforcing agency is empowered to revoke any such permit upon a determination by the agency that the construction, erection, alteration, modification, repair, or demolition of the building for which the permit was issued is in violation of, or not in conformity with, the provisions of the Florida Building Code. Installation, replacement, removal, or metering of any load management control device is exempt from and shall not be subject to the permit process and fees otherwise required by this section. § 553.84. Statutory civil action Notwithstanding any other remedies available, any person or party, in an individual capacity or on behalf of a class of persons or parties, damaged as a result of a violation of this part or the Florida Building Code, has a cause of action in any court of competent jurisdiction against the person or party who committed the violation; however, if the person or party obtains the required building permits and any local government or public agency with authority to enforce the Florida Building Code approves the plans, if the construction project passes all required inspections under the code, and if there is no personal injury or damage to property other than the property that is the subject of the permits, plans, and inspections, this section does not apply unless the person or party knew or should have known that the violation existed. and Comptech v. Milam Commerce: 711 So.2d 1255 (Fla. 3rd DCA, 1998) which says no statutory cause of action for violating 553.79 under 553.84 because it is barred by economic loss if construction done under a contract.... Help? Michael Romm Michael R. Romm, P.A. 1213 S. 30th Avenue, Suite 2, Hollywood, FL 33020 Phone: (954) 557-8002 Fax: (954) 208-0022 mromm@rommlaw.com<mailto:mromm@rommlaw.com> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The information and all attachments contained in this electronic communication are legally privileged and confidential information, subject to the attorney-client privilege and intended only for the use of intended recipients. If the reader of this message is not an intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately of the error by return email and please permanently remove any copies of this message from your system and do not retain any copies, whether in electronic or physical form or otherwise. Unauthorized interception of this e-mail is a violation of federal criminal law. TAX ADVICE DISCLOSURE: Pursuant to the requirements of Internal Revenue Service Circular 230, we advise you that any federal tax advice contained in this communication (including any attachments) is not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of: (1) avoiding penalties that maybe imposed under the Internal Revenue Code or (2) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any transaction or matter addressed in this communication. Disclaimer regarding Uniform Electronic Transactions Act ("UETA") (Florida Statutes Section 668.50): If this communication concerns negotiation of a contract or agreement, UETA does not apply to this communication; contract formation in this matter shall occur only with manually-affixed original signatures on original documents. Law Offices of Michael R. Romm, P.A. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] ABA - Construction Law Forum From: "Michael Kamprath" <Michael.Kamprath@thresherpa.com<mailto:Michael.Kamprath@thresherpa.com>> Date: Thu, April 12, 2012 11:55 am To: "'RPPTL constructionlaw'" <constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org>> For all the members who wish to get active in the ABA Forum on the Construction Industry, I would encourage you, if you are not already, to join the ABA. Membership is currently free through August 31 along with membership in one Section or Forum. You can do this by going to this site: http://joinaba.org/200916738 Or by calling 1-800-285-2221 and mention promotion code RMM11MRRC. Once you join the Section or Forum, you will have the opportunity to join a Division or Committee. Michael T. Kamprath Board Certified in Construction Law Thresher & Thresher, P.A. 400 North Tampa Street, Suite 1320 Tampa, Florida 33602 Phone: 813 229 7744 Facsimile: 813 228 0367 From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> [mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Charles Kramer Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 10:43 AM To: 'RPPTL constructionlaw' Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] ABA - Construction Law Forum Division 5. Contract Negotiations, Performance and Admin. Highest regards, [cid:image003.png@01CD18C1.DBD1B1C0][cid:image0066952.jpg] CONFIDENTIALITY: This electronic message transmission contains information from the law firm Rogers, Morris & Ziegler LLP that is considered confidential or privileged. The information is intended solely for the recipient and use by any other party is not authorized. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify me immediately by telephone (954-462-1431). From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> [mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of fred.dudley@hklaw.com<mailto:fred.dudley@hklaw.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 8:45 AM To: constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org> Subject: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] ABA - Construction Law Forum As I requested during yesterday meeting, attached from Cary Wright is a list of the 12 divisions of the Forum, which also reflects the members of each division’s Steering Committee. Can you find the one Arnie serves on? It’s amazing the number of Florida attorneys (and our CLC members) who are active in this Forum, but with George Myer as chair, we should get MORE active. How about picking one you like and letting us know?? ________________________________ ****IRS CIRCULAR 230 DISCLOSURE: TO ENSURE COMPLIANCE WITH REQUIREMENTS IMPOSED BY THE IRS, WE INFORM YOU THAT ANY TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS COMMUNICATION (INCLUDING ANY ATTACHMENTS) IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN BY HOLLAND & KNIGHT LLP TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, FOR THE PURPOSE OF (I) AVOIDING TAX-RELATED PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE, OR (II) PROMOTING, MARKETING, OR RECOMMENDING TO ANOTHER PARTY ANY TAX-RELATED MATTER HEREIN.**** ________________________________ NOTE: This e-mail is from a law firm, Holland & Knight LLP (“H&K”), and is intended solely for the use of the individual(s) to whom it is addressed. If you believe you received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately, delete the e-mail from your computer and do not copy or disclose it to anyone else. If you are not an existing client of H&K, do not construe anything in this e-mail to make you a client unless it contains a specific statement to that effect and do not disclose anything to H&K in reply that you expect it to hold in confidence. If you properly received this e-mail as a client, co-counsel or retained expert of H&K, you should maintain its contents in confidence in order to preserve the attorney-client or work product privilege that may be available to protect confidentiality. ________________________________ _______________________________________________ constructionlaw mailing list constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org> http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/constructionlaw

P

Paul V. DeBianchi

Thu, Apr 12, 2012 7:35 PM

good point.

Paul V. DeBianchi, Attorney at Law
Paul V. DeBianchi P.A.
111 S.E. 12th St.,
Fort Lauderdale, Fl. 33316-1813
phone: 954-764-6133
Fax: 954-764-6131
e-mail: debianchi236@BellSouth.net
Personal Injury and Wrongful Death
Probate, Wills, Trusts, Guardianships and Estates
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Please visit our website at: www.DeBianchiLaw.com

----- Original Message -----
From: Sandra Kennedy
To: RPPTL constructionlaw
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 2:12 PM
Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] [RPPTL - QUESTION: nobuilding permit....

A lien requires an improvement and a contract. Was the property actually improved if the plans were not approved, the work does not pass code and is subject to demolition? Is there a contract if the subject of the agreement was illegal? Was there a written contract, perhaps with an arbitration provision? Unjust enrichment might work, if the owner keeps the benefit, but I would not file a lien because the risk of paying fees is too great.

Sandra D. Kennedy, Esquire

Florida Bar Board Certified Construction Lawyer

Ferencik Libanoff Brandt Bustamante and Williams, P.A.

150 South Pine Island Road, Suite 400

Fort Lauderdale, Florida 33324

Tel (954) 474-8080

Fax (954) 474-7343

Miami (305) 949-8003

skennedy@flbbwlaw.com

From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of mromm@rommlaw.com
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 1:40 PM
To: RPPTL constructionlaw
Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] [RPPTL - QUESTION: no building permit....

Does anybody know the answer to this question:

If general contractor fails to obtain a building permit (at owner's request because it was a small project at a home and the homeowner did not want to wait for or pay for the permit) and owner does not pay, can GC file a lien and foreclose?

I read the following and I am still confused:

§ 553.79. Permits; applications; issuance; inspections [Effective until July 1, 2012]

 (1) After the effective date of the Florida Building Code adopted as herein provided, it shall be unlawful for any person, firm, corporation, or governmental entity to construct, erect, alter, modify, repair, or demolish any building within this state without first obtaining a permit therefor from the appropriate enforcing agency or from such persons as may, by appropriate resolution or regulation of the authorized state or local enforcing agency, be delegated authority to issue such permits, upon the payment of such reasonable fees adopted by the enforcing agency. The enforcing agency is empowered to revoke any such permit upon a determination by the agency that the construction, erection, alteration, modification, repair, or demolition of the building for which the permit was issued is in violation of, or not in conformity with, the provisions of the Florida Building Code. Installation, replacement, removal, or metering of any load management control device is exempt from and shall not be subject to the permit process and fees otherwise required by this section.

§ 553.84. Statutory civil action
Notwithstanding any other remedies available, any person or party, in an individual capacity or on behalf of a class of persons or parties, damaged as a result of a violation of this part or the Florida Building Code, has a cause of action in any court of competent jurisdiction against the person or party who committed the violation; however, if the person or party obtains the required building permits and any local government or public agency with authority to enforce the Florida Building Code approves the plans, if the construction project passes all required inspections under the code, and if there is no personal injury or damage to property other than the property that is the subject of the permits, plans, and inspections, this section does not apply unless the person or party knew or should have known that the violation existed.

and Comptech v. Milam Commerce: 711 So.2d 1255 (Fla. 3rd DCA, 1998) which says no statutory cause of action for violating 553.79 under 553.84 because it is barred by economic loss if construction done under a contract....

Help?

Michael Romm

Michael R. Romm, P.A.

1213 S. 30th Avenue, Suite 2, Hollywood, FL 33020

Phone: (954) 557-8002

Fax: (954) 208-0022

mromm@rommlaw.com

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The information and all attachments contained in this electronic communication are legally privileged and confidential information, subject to the attorney-client privilege and intended only for the use of intended recipients. If the reader of this message is not an intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately of the error by return email and please permanently remove any copies of this message from your system and do not retain any copies, whether in electronic or physical form or otherwise. Unauthorized interception of this e-mail is a violation of federal criminal law.

TAX ADVICE DISCLOSURE: Pursuant to the requirements of Internal Revenue Service Circular 230, we advise you that any federal tax advice contained in this communication (including any attachments) is not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of: (1) avoiding penalties that maybe imposed under the Internal Revenue Code or (2) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any transaction or matter addressed in this communication.

Disclaimer regarding Uniform Electronic Transactions Act ("UETA") (Florida Statutes Section 668.50): If this communication concerns negotiation of a contract or agreement, UETA does not apply to this communication; contract formation in this matter shall occur only with manually-affixed original signatures on original documents. Law Offices of Michael R. Romm, P.A.

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] ABA - Construction Law Forum
From: "Michael Kamprath" <Michael.Kamprath@thresherpa.com>
Date: Thu, April 12, 2012 11:55 am
To: "'RPPTL constructionlaw'" <constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org>

For all the members who wish to get active in the ABA Forum on the Construction Industry, I would encourage you, if you are not already, to join the ABA.  Membership is currently free through August 31 along with membership in one Section or Forum.  You can do this by going to this site: http://joinaba.org/200916738 Or by calling 1-800-285-2221 and mention promotion code RMM11MRRC.  Once you join the Section or Forum, you will have the opportunity to join a Division or Committee.

Michael T. Kamprath

Board Certified in Construction Law

Thresher & Thresher, P.A.

400 North Tampa Street,

Suite 1320

Tampa, Florida 33602

Phone: 813 229 7744

Facsimile: 813 228 0367

From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Charles Kramer
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 10:43 AM
To: 'RPPTL constructionlaw'
Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] ABA - Construction Law Forum

Division 5. Contract Negotiations, Performance and Admin.

Highest regards, 

CONFIDENTIALITY: This electronic message transmission contains information from the law firm Rogers, Morris & Ziegler LLP that is considered confidential or privileged.  The information is intended solely for the recipient and use by any other party is not authorized.  If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify me immediately by telephone (954-462-1431).

From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of fred.dudley@hklaw.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 8:45 AM
To: constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] ABA - Construction Law Forum

As I requested during yesterday meeting, attached from Cary Wright is a list of the 12 divisions of the Forum, which also reflects the members of each division’s Steering Committee. Can you find the one Arnie serves on?       

It’s amazing the number of Florida attorneys (and our CLC members) who are active in this Forum, but with George Myer as chair, we should get MORE active.

How about picking one you like and letting us know??

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good point. Paul V. DeBianchi, Attorney at Law Paul V. DeBianchi P.A. 111 S.E. 12th St., Fort Lauderdale, Fl. 33316-1813 phone: 954-764-6133 Fax: 954-764-6131 e-mail: debianchi236@BellSouth.net Personal Injury and Wrongful Death Probate, Wills, Trusts, Guardianships and Estates Dissolution Of Marriage, Prenups, and matters as to Children General Litigation and Business Services Real Estate Purchases and Sales General Practice Services Please visit our website at: www.DeBianchiLaw.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Sandra Kennedy To: RPPTL constructionlaw Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 2:12 PM Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] [RPPTL - QUESTION: nobuilding permit.... A lien requires an improvement and a contract. Was the property actually improved if the plans were not approved, the work does not pass code and is subject to demolition? Is there a contract if the subject of the agreement was illegal? Was there a written contract, perhaps with an arbitration provision? Unjust enrichment might work, if the owner keeps the benefit, but I would not file a lien because the risk of paying fees is too great. Sandra D. Kennedy, Esquire Florida Bar Board Certified Construction Lawyer Ferencik Libanoff Brandt Bustamante and Williams, P.A. 150 South Pine Island Road, Suite 400 Fort Lauderdale, Florida 33324 Tel (954) 474-8080 Fax (954) 474-7343 Miami (305) 949-8003 skennedy@flbbwlaw.com From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of mromm@rommlaw.com Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 1:40 PM To: RPPTL constructionlaw Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] [RPPTL - QUESTION: no building permit.... Does anybody know the answer to this question: If general contractor fails to obtain a building permit (at owner's request because it was a small project at a home and the homeowner did not want to wait for or pay for the permit) and owner does not pay, can GC file a lien and foreclose? I read the following and I am still confused: § 553.79. Permits; applications; issuance; inspections [Effective until July 1, 2012] (1) After the effective date of the Florida Building Code adopted as herein provided, it shall be unlawful for any person, firm, corporation, or governmental entity to construct, erect, alter, modify, repair, or demolish any building within this state without first obtaining a permit therefor from the appropriate enforcing agency or from such persons as may, by appropriate resolution or regulation of the authorized state or local enforcing agency, be delegated authority to issue such permits, upon the payment of such reasonable fees adopted by the enforcing agency. The enforcing agency is empowered to revoke any such permit upon a determination by the agency that the construction, erection, alteration, modification, repair, or demolition of the building for which the permit was issued is in violation of, or not in conformity with, the provisions of the Florida Building Code. Installation, replacement, removal, or metering of any load management control device is exempt from and shall not be subject to the permit process and fees otherwise required by this section. § 553.84. Statutory civil action Notwithstanding any other remedies available, any person or party, in an individual capacity or on behalf of a class of persons or parties, damaged as a result of a violation of this part or the Florida Building Code, has a cause of action in any court of competent jurisdiction against the person or party who committed the violation; however, if the person or party obtains the required building permits and any local government or public agency with authority to enforce the Florida Building Code approves the plans, if the construction project passes all required inspections under the code, and if there is no personal injury or damage to property other than the property that is the subject of the permits, plans, and inspections, this section does not apply unless the person or party knew or should have known that the violation existed. and Comptech v. Milam Commerce: 711 So.2d 1255 (Fla. 3rd DCA, 1998) which says no statutory cause of action for violating 553.79 under 553.84 because it is barred by economic loss if construction done under a contract.... Help? Michael Romm Michael R. Romm, P.A. 1213 S. 30th Avenue, Suite 2, Hollywood, FL 33020 Phone: (954) 557-8002 Fax: (954) 208-0022 mromm@rommlaw.com CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The information and all attachments contained in this electronic communication are legally privileged and confidential information, subject to the attorney-client privilege and intended only for the use of intended recipients. If the reader of this message is not an intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately of the error by return email and please permanently remove any copies of this message from your system and do not retain any copies, whether in electronic or physical form or otherwise. Unauthorized interception of this e-mail is a violation of federal criminal law. TAX ADVICE DISCLOSURE: Pursuant to the requirements of Internal Revenue Service Circular 230, we advise you that any federal tax advice contained in this communication (including any attachments) is not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of: (1) avoiding penalties that maybe imposed under the Internal Revenue Code or (2) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any transaction or matter addressed in this communication. Disclaimer regarding Uniform Electronic Transactions Act ("UETA") (Florida Statutes Section 668.50): If this communication concerns negotiation of a contract or agreement, UETA does not apply to this communication; contract formation in this matter shall occur only with manually-affixed original signatures on original documents. Law Offices of Michael R. Romm, P.A. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] ABA - Construction Law Forum From: "Michael Kamprath" <Michael.Kamprath@thresherpa.com> Date: Thu, April 12, 2012 11:55 am To: "'RPPTL constructionlaw'" <constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org> For all the members who wish to get active in the ABA Forum on the Construction Industry, I would encourage you, if you are not already, to join the ABA. Membership is currently free through August 31 along with membership in one Section or Forum. You can do this by going to this site: http://joinaba.org/200916738 Or by calling 1-800-285-2221 and mention promotion code RMM11MRRC. Once you join the Section or Forum, you will have the opportunity to join a Division or Committee. Michael T. Kamprath Board Certified in Construction Law Thresher & Thresher, P.A. 400 North Tampa Street, Suite 1320 Tampa, Florida 33602 Phone: 813 229 7744 Facsimile: 813 228 0367 From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Charles Kramer Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 10:43 AM To: 'RPPTL constructionlaw' Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] ABA - Construction Law Forum Division 5. Contract Negotiations, Performance and Admin. Highest regards, CONFIDENTIALITY: This electronic message transmission contains information from the law firm Rogers, Morris & Ziegler LLP that is considered confidential or privileged. The information is intended solely for the recipient and use by any other party is not authorized. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify me immediately by telephone (954-462-1431). From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of fred.dudley@hklaw.com Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 8:45 AM To: constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org Subject: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] ABA - Construction Law Forum As I requested during yesterday meeting, attached from Cary Wright is a list of the 12 divisions of the Forum, which also reflects the members of each division’s Steering Committee. Can you find the one Arnie serves on? It’s amazing the number of Florida attorneys (and our CLC members) who are active in this Forum, but with George Myer as chair, we should get MORE active. How about picking one you like and letting us know?? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ****IRS CIRCULAR 230 DISCLOSURE: TO ENSURE COMPLIANCE WITH REQUIREMENTS IMPOSED BY THE IRS, WE INFORM YOU THAT ANY TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS COMMUNICATION (INCLUDING ANY ATTACHMENTS) IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN BY HOLLAND & KNIGHT LLP TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, FOR THE PURPOSE OF (I) AVOIDING TAX-RELATED PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE, OR (II) PROMOTING, MARKETING, OR RECOMMENDING TO ANOTHER PARTY ANY TAX-RELATED MATTER HEREIN.**** ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- NOTE: This e-mail is from a law firm, Holland & Knight LLP (“H&K”), and is intended solely for the use of the individual(s) to whom it is addressed. If you believe you received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately, delete the e-mail from your computer and do not copy or disclose it to anyone else. If you are not an existing client of H&K, do not construe anything in this e-mail to make you a client unless it contains a specific statement to that effect and do not disclose anything to H&K in reply that you expect it to hold in confidence. If you properly received this e-mail as a client, co-counsel or retained expert of H&K, you should maintain its contents in confidence in order to preserve the attorney-client or work product privilege that may be available to protect confidentiality. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ constructionlaw mailing list constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/constructionlaw ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ constructionlaw mailing list constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/constructionlaw

DC

David C. Agee

Fri, Apr 13, 2012 6:51 PM

I think it is a tough road to follow, but wouldn't there still be an equitable lien for services rendered, the waters could get muddied pretty fast as I'd bet as a practical matter not all the work required a permit.

David C. Agee, Esquire

REID & AGEE, PLLC

3633 26th Street West

Bradenton, FL 34205

Tel 941.756.8791

Fax 941.755.7311

Ask us about Real Estate and Estate Planning***********

The information transmitted in this email, including any attachments, is from Reid & Agee, PLLC and is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521. This electronic information is intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is strictly prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender via telephone at (941) 756-8791 or reply email and delete the email and any attachments from any computer. Thank You.

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From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Ed Kinberg
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 2:58 PM
To: RPPTL constructionlaw
Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] [RPPTL - QUESTION:no building permit....[Scanned]

I agree with your conclusion about Braverman.

I do think trying to enforce a lien under these facts is going to create a substantial problem and the vast majority of courts would find the agreement was intended to violate the law (if a permit was required) and will find that the Court's cannot be used to enforce an agreement that is illegal.

ed

Ed Kinberg

Fellow, National Contract Management Association

Board Certified, Construction Law Attorney

Government Contract Law, Construction Law, and Business Law

Attorneys At Law

1290 W. Eau Gallie Boulevard

Melbourne, FL 32935

Tel. (321) 259-1910

Fax (321) 259-1996

www.kblegal.com http://www.kblegal.com

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From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Gibbons, Michael
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 2:32 PM
To: 'RPPTL constructionlaw'
Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] [RPPTL - QUESTION:no building permit....

Thanks Larry. I was not aware of the Braverman decision. However, I don't think it applies on these facts because the homeowner apparently contracted with the GC not to obtain a permit. In Braverman, the opposite occurred: owner's contract with GC expressly required GC to get the permit.Court relied on the express breach of contract in failing to obtain permit to hold that contractor had not performed and therefore had not earned the monies claimed in the lien. The Braverman decision was grounded on an express contractual undertaking not apparently present in the facts presented.

Michael R. Gibbons (Bio http://lowndes-law.com/our-people/michael-r-gibbons )
Shareholder
Lowndes, Drosdick, Doster, Kantor & Reed, P.A.
450 South Orange Avenue, 8th Floor
Orlando, FL 32801
Phone: 407-418-6378
Fax: 407-843-4444
email: michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.com mailto:michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.com
website: http://www.lowndes-law.com http://www.lowndes-law.com/

From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Larry Leiby
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 1:58 PM
To: RPPTL constructionlaw
Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] [RPPTL - QUESTION: no building permit....

See Braverman v. Van Bower, Inc., 558 So.2d 381 (Fla. 3rd DCA 1991).

Larry R. Leiby, Esq.

Malka & Kravitz, P.A.

1300 Sawgrass Corp. Pkwy., Suite 100

Ft. Lauderdale, FL 33323

Phone: 954-514-0984

Fax: 954-514-0985 e-mail: leiby@mkpalaw.com

Board Certified in Construction Law

Fla. Supreme Court Certified Circuit Court Civil Mediator

Member, Leiby Alexander Brandt ADR Group, LLC

Member, JAMS Global Engineering and Construction Panel

Fellow, College of Commercial Arbitrators

From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of mromm@rommlaw.com
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 1:40 PM
To: RPPTL constructionlaw
Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] [RPPTL - QUESTION: no building permit....

Does anybody know the answer to this question:

If general contractor fails to obtain a building permit (at owner's request because it was a small project at a home and the homeowner did not want to wait for or pay for the permit) and owner does not pay, can GC file a lien and foreclose?

I read the following and I am still confused:

§ 553.79. Permits; applications; issuance; inspections [Effective until July 1, 2012]

(1) After the effective date of the Florida Building Code adopted as herein provided, it shall be unlawful for any person, firm, corporation, or governmental entity to construct, erect, alter, modify, repair, or demolish any building within this state without first obtaining a permit therefor from the appropriate enforcing agency or from such persons as may, by appropriate resolution or regulation of the authorized state or local enforcing agency, be delegated authority to issue such permits, upon the payment of such reasonable fees adopted by the enforcing agency. The enforcing agency is empowered to revoke any such permit upon a determination by the agency that the construction, erection, alteration, modification, repair, or demolition of the building for which the permit was issued is in violation of, or not in conformity with, the provisions of the Florida Building Code. Installation, replacement, removal, or metering of any load management control device is exempt from and shall not be subject to the permit process and fees otherwise required by this section.

§ 553.84. Statutory civil action
Notwithstanding any other remedies available, any person or party, in an individual capacity or on behalf of a class of persons or parties, damaged as a result of a violation of this part or the Florida Building Code, has a cause of action in any court of competent jurisdiction against the person or party who committed the violation; however, if the person or party obtains the required building permits and any local government or public agency with authority to enforce the Florida Building Code approves the plans, if the construction project passes all required inspections under the code, and if there is no personal injury or damage to property other than the property that is the subject of the permits, plans, and inspections, this section does not apply unless the person or party knew or should have known that the violation existed.

and Comptech v. Milam Commerce: 711 So.2d 1255 (Fla. 3rd DCA, 1998) which says no statutory cause of action for violating 553.79 under 553.84 because it is barred by economic loss if construction done under a contract....

Help?

Michael Romm

Michael R. Romm, P.A.

1213 S. 30th Avenue, Suite 2, Hollywood, FL 33020

Phone: (954) 557-8002

Fax: (954) 208-0022

mromm@rommlaw.com mailto:mromm@rommlaw.com

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The information and all attachments contained in this electronic communication are legally privileged and confidential information, subject to the attorney-client privilege and intended only for the use of intended recipients. If the reader of this message is not an intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately of the error by return email and please permanently remove any copies of this message from your system and do not retain any copies, whether in electronic or physical form or otherwise. Unauthorized interception of this e-mail is a violation of federal criminal law.

TAX ADVICE DISCLOSURE: Pursuant to the requirements of Internal Revenue Service Circular 230, we advise you that any federal tax advice contained in this communication (including any attachments) is not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of: (1) avoiding penalties that maybe imposed under the Internal Revenue Code or (2) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any transaction or matter addressed in this communication.

Disclaimer regarding Uniform Electronic Transactions Act ("UETA") (Florida Statutes Section 668.50): If this communication concerns negotiation of a contract or agreement, UETA does not apply to this communication; contract formation in this matter shall occur only with manually-affixed original signatures on original documents. Law Offices of Michael R. Romm, P.A.

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] ABA - Construction Law Forum
From: "Michael Kamprath" <Michael.Kamprath@thresherpa.com <mailto:Michael.Kamprath@thresherpa.com> >
Date: Thu, April 12, 2012 11:55 am
To: "'RPPTL constructionlaw'" <constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org <mailto:constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org> >

For all the members who wish to get active in the ABA Forum on the Construction Industry, I would encourage you, if you are not already, to join the ABA.  Membership is currently free through August 31 along with membership in one Section or Forum.  You can do this by going to this site: http://joinaba.org/200916738 <http://joinaba.org/200916738>  Or by calling 1-800-285-2221 and mention promotion code RMM11MRRC.  Once you join the Section or Forum, you will have the opportunity to join a Division or Committee.

Michael T. Kamprath

Board Certified in Construction Law

Thresher & Thresher, P.A.

400 North Tampa Street,

Suite 1320

Tampa, Florida 33602

Phone: 813 229 7744

Facsimile: 813 228 0367

From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org>  [mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> ] On Behalf Of Charles Kramer
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 10:43 AM
To: 'RPPTL constructionlaw'
Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] ABA - Construction Law Forum

Division 5. Contract Negotiations, Performance and Admin.

Highest regards, 

CONFIDENTIALITY: This electronic message transmission contains information from the law firm Rogers, Morris & Ziegler LLP that is considered confidential or privileged.  The information is intended solely for the recipient and use by any other party is not authorized.  If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify me immediately by telephone (954-462-1431).

From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org>  [mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> ] On Behalf Of fred.dudley@hklaw.com <mailto:fred.dudley@hklaw.com> 
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 8:45 AM
To: constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org <mailto:constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org> 
Subject: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] ABA - Construction Law Forum

As I requested during yesterday meeting, attached from Cary Wright is a list of the 12 divisions of the Forum, which also reflects the members of each division's Steering Committee. Can you find the one Arnie serves on?       

It's amazing the number of Florida attorneys (and our CLC members) who are active in this Forum, but with George Myer as chair, we should get MORE active.

How about picking one you like and letting us know??

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I think it is a tough road to follow, but wouldn't there still be an equitable lien for services rendered, the waters could get muddied pretty fast as I'd bet as a practical matter not all the work required a permit. David C. Agee, Esquire REID & AGEE, PLLC 3633 26th Street West Bradenton, FL 34205 Tel 941.756.8791 Fax 941.755.7311 *************Ask us about Real Estate and Estate Planning************************ The information transmitted in this email, including any attachments, is from Reid & Agee, PLLC and is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521. This electronic information is intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is strictly prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender via telephone at (941) 756-8791 or reply email and delete the email and any attachments from any computer. Thank You. IRS Circular 230 Disclosure: To the extent that this message or any attachment concerns tax matters, it is not intended to be used as or intended to constitute a "reliance opinion" under applicable Treasury Regulations, and accordingly this message or any attachment is not intended or written to be used, and may not be used or relied upon, for the purpose of (i) avoiding tax-related penalties that may be imposed by the Internal Revenue Service, or (ii) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any tax-related matters addressed herein. Please be assured that this policy does not reflect any decrease in the quality of services or the amount of thought that we put in our correspondence. From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Ed Kinberg Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 2:58 PM To: RPPTL constructionlaw Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] [RPPTL - QUESTION:no building permit....[Scanned] I agree with your conclusion about Braverman. I do think trying to enforce a lien under these facts is going to create a substantial problem and the vast majority of courts would find the agreement was intended to violate the law (if a permit was required) and will find that the Court's cannot be used to enforce an agreement that is illegal. ed Ed Kinberg Fellow, National Contract Management Association Board Certified, Construction Law Attorney Government Contract Law, Construction Law, and Business Law Attorneys At Law 1290 W. Eau Gallie Boulevard Melbourne, FL 32935 Tel. (321) 259-1910 Fax (321) 259-1996 www.kblegal.com <http://www.kblegal.com> This message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain information that is PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by telephone, and return the original to us by mail without making a copy. Thank you. Replies Filtered: Any incoming reply to this e-mail communication or other e-mail communication to us will be electronically filtered for "spam" and/or "viruses." That filtering process may result in such reply or other e-mail communications to us being quarantined (i.e., potentially not received at our site at all) and/or delayed in reaching us. For that reason, we cannot guarantee that we will receive your reply or other e-mail communications to us and/or that we will receive the same in a timely manner. Accordingly, you should consider sending communications to us which are particularly important or time-sensitive by means other than e-mail. From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Gibbons, Michael Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 2:32 PM To: 'RPPTL constructionlaw' Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] [RPPTL - QUESTION:no building permit.... Thanks Larry. I was not aware of the Braverman decision. However, I don't think it applies on these facts because the homeowner apparently contracted with the GC not to obtain a permit. In Braverman, the opposite occurred: owner's contract with GC expressly required GC to get the permit.Court relied on the express breach of contract in failing to obtain permit to hold that contractor had not performed and therefore had not earned the monies claimed in the lien. The Braverman decision was grounded on an express contractual undertaking not apparently present in the facts presented. Michael R. Gibbons (Bio <http://lowndes-law.com/our-people/michael-r-gibbons> ) Shareholder Lowndes, Drosdick, Doster, Kantor & Reed, P.A. 450 South Orange Avenue, 8th Floor Orlando, FL 32801 Phone: 407-418-6378 Fax: 407-843-4444 email: michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.com <mailto:michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.com> website: http://www.lowndes-law.com <http://www.lowndes-law.com/> ________________________________ From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Larry Leiby Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 1:58 PM To: RPPTL constructionlaw Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] [RPPTL - QUESTION: no building permit.... See Braverman v. Van Bower, Inc., 558 So.2d 381 (Fla. 3rd DCA 1991). Larry R. Leiby, Esq. Malka & Kravitz, P.A. 1300 Sawgrass Corp. Pkwy., Suite 100 Ft. Lauderdale, FL 33323 Phone: 954-514-0984 Fax: 954-514-0985 e-mail: leiby@mkpalaw.com Board Certified in Construction Law Fla. Supreme Court Certified Circuit Court Civil Mediator Member, Leiby Alexander Brandt ADR Group, LLC Member, JAMS Global Engineering and Construction Panel Fellow, College of Commercial Arbitrators From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of mromm@rommlaw.com Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 1:40 PM To: RPPTL constructionlaw Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] [RPPTL - QUESTION: no building permit.... Does anybody know the answer to this question: If general contractor fails to obtain a building permit (at owner's request because it was a small project at a home and the homeowner did not want to wait for or pay for the permit) and owner does not pay, can GC file a lien and foreclose? I read the following and I am still confused: § 553.79. Permits; applications; issuance; inspections [Effective until July 1, 2012] (1) After the effective date of the Florida Building Code adopted as herein provided, it shall be unlawful for any person, firm, corporation, or governmental entity to construct, erect, alter, modify, repair, or demolish any building within this state without first obtaining a permit therefor from the appropriate enforcing agency or from such persons as may, by appropriate resolution or regulation of the authorized state or local enforcing agency, be delegated authority to issue such permits, upon the payment of such reasonable fees adopted by the enforcing agency. The enforcing agency is empowered to revoke any such permit upon a determination by the agency that the construction, erection, alteration, modification, repair, or demolition of the building for which the permit was issued is in violation of, or not in conformity with, the provisions of the Florida Building Code. Installation, replacement, removal, or metering of any load management control device is exempt from and shall not be subject to the permit process and fees otherwise required by this section. § 553.84. Statutory civil action Notwithstanding any other remedies available, any person or party, in an individual capacity or on behalf of a class of persons or parties, damaged as a result of a violation of this part or the Florida Building Code, has a cause of action in any court of competent jurisdiction against the person or party who committed the violation; however, if the person or party obtains the required building permits and any local government or public agency with authority to enforce the Florida Building Code approves the plans, if the construction project passes all required inspections under the code, and if there is no personal injury or damage to property other than the property that is the subject of the permits, plans, and inspections, this section does not apply unless the person or party knew or should have known that the violation existed. and Comptech v. Milam Commerce: 711 So.2d 1255 (Fla. 3rd DCA, 1998) which says no statutory cause of action for violating 553.79 under 553.84 because it is barred by economic loss if construction done under a contract.... Help? Michael Romm Michael R. Romm, P.A. 1213 S. 30th Avenue, Suite 2, Hollywood, FL 33020 Phone: (954) 557-8002 Fax: (954) 208-0022 mromm@rommlaw.com <mailto:mromm@rommlaw.com> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The information and all attachments contained in this electronic communication are legally privileged and confidential information, subject to the attorney-client privilege and intended only for the use of intended recipients. If the reader of this message is not an intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. 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Disclaimer regarding Uniform Electronic Transactions Act ("UETA") (Florida Statutes Section 668.50): If this communication concerns negotiation of a contract or agreement, UETA does not apply to this communication; contract formation in this matter shall occur only with manually-affixed original signatures on original documents. Law Offices of Michael R. Romm, P.A. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] ABA - Construction Law Forum From: "Michael Kamprath" <Michael.Kamprath@thresherpa.com <mailto:Michael.Kamprath@thresherpa.com> > Date: Thu, April 12, 2012 11:55 am To: "'RPPTL constructionlaw'" <constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org <mailto:constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org> > For all the members who wish to get active in the ABA Forum on the Construction Industry, I would encourage you, if you are not already, to join the ABA. Membership is currently free through August 31 along with membership in one Section or Forum. You can do this by going to this site: http://joinaba.org/200916738 <http://joinaba.org/200916738> Or by calling 1-800-285-2221 and mention promotion code RMM11MRRC. Once you join the Section or Forum, you will have the opportunity to join a Division or Committee. Michael T. Kamprath Board Certified in Construction Law Thresher & Thresher, P.A. 400 North Tampa Street, Suite 1320 Tampa, Florida 33602 Phone: 813 229 7744 Facsimile: 813 228 0367 From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> [mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> ] On Behalf Of Charles Kramer Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 10:43 AM To: 'RPPTL constructionlaw' Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] ABA - Construction Law Forum Division 5. Contract Negotiations, Performance and Admin. Highest regards, CONFIDENTIALITY: This electronic message transmission contains information from the law firm Rogers, Morris & Ziegler LLP that is considered confidential or privileged. The information is intended solely for the recipient and use by any other party is not authorized. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify me immediately by telephone (954-462-1431). From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> [mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> ] On Behalf Of fred.dudley@hklaw.com <mailto:fred.dudley@hklaw.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 8:45 AM To: constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org <mailto:constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org> Subject: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] ABA - Construction Law Forum As I requested during yesterday meeting, attached from Cary Wright is a list of the 12 divisions of the Forum, which also reflects the members of each division's Steering Committee. Can you find the one Arnie serves on? It's amazing the number of Florida attorneys (and our CLC members) who are active in this Forum, but with George Myer as chair, we should get MORE active. How about picking one you like and letting us know?? ________________________________ ****IRS CIRCULAR 230 DISCLOSURE: TO ENSURE COMPLIANCE WITH REQUIREMENTS IMPOSED BY THE IRS, WE INFORM YOU THAT ANY TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS COMMUNICATION (INCLUDING ANY ATTACHMENTS) IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN BY HOLLAND & KNIGHT LLP TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, FOR THE PURPOSE OF (I) AVOIDING TAX-RELATED PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE, OR (II) PROMOTING, MARKETING, OR RECOMMENDING TO ANOTHER PARTY ANY TAX-RELATED MATTER HEREIN.**** ________________________________ NOTE: This e-mail is from a law firm, Holland & Knight LLP ("H&K"), and is intended solely for the use of the individual(s) to whom it is addressed. If you believe you received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately, delete the e-mail from your computer and do not copy or disclose it to anyone else. 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For that reason, we cannot guarantee that we will receive your reply or other e-mail communications to us and/or that we will receive the same in a timely manner. Accordingly, you should consider sending communications to us which are particularly important or time-sensitive by means other than e-mail. Notice Under U.S. Treasury Department Circular 230: To the extent that this e-mail communication and the attachment(s) hereto, if any, may contain written advice concerning or relating to a Federal (U.S.) tax issue, United States Treasury Department Regulations (Circular 230) require that we (and we do hereby) advise and disclose to you that, unless we expressly state otherwise in writing, such tax advice is not written or intended to be used, and cannot be used by you (the addressee), or other person(s), for purposes of (1) avoiding penalties imposed under the United States Internal Revenue Code or (2) promoting, marketing or recommending to any other person(s) the (or any of the) transaction(s) or matter(s) addressed, discussed or referenced herein. Each taxpayer should seek advice from an independent tax advisor with respect to any Federal tax issue(s), transaction(s) or matter(s) addressed, discussed or referenced herein based upon his, her or its particular circumstances. [v4.30]

EK

Ed Kinberg

Fri, Apr 13, 2012 7:10 PM

There are cases out there that find participation in an illegal act results in the court taking no action to support the parties that knowingly participated in the illegality.

ed

Ed Kinberg

Fellow, National Contract Management Association

Board Certified, Construction Law Attorney

Government Contract Law, Construction Law, and Business Law

Attorneys At Law

1290 W. Eau Gallie Boulevard

Melbourne, FL 32935

Tel. (321) 259-1910

Fax (321) 259-1996

www.kblegal.com http://www.kblegal.com

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From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of David C. Agee
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2012 2:51 PM
To: RPPTL constructionlaw
Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] [RPPTL -QUESTION:no building permit....[Scanned]

I think it is a tough road to follow, but wouldn't there still be an equitable lien for services rendered, the waters could get muddied pretty fast as I'd bet as a practical matter not all the work required a permit.

David C. Agee, Esquire

REID & AGEE, PLLC

3633 26th Street West

Bradenton, FL 34205

Tel 941.756.8791

Fax 941.755.7311

Ask us about Real Estate and Estate Planning***********

The information transmitted in this email, including any attachments, is from Reid & Agee, PLLC and is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521. This electronic information is intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is strictly prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender via telephone at (941) 756-8791 or reply email and delete the email and any attachments from any computer. Thank You.

IRS Circular 230 Disclosure: To the extent that this message or any attachment concerns tax matters, it is not intended to be used as or intended to constitute a "reliance opinion" under applicable Treasury Regulations, and accordingly this message or any attachment is not intended or written to be used, and may not be used or relied upon, for the purpose of (i) avoiding tax-related penalties that may be imposed by the Internal Revenue Service, or (ii) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any tax-related matters addressed herein. Please be assured that this policy does not reflect any decrease in the quality of services or the amount of thought that we put in our correspondence.

From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Ed Kinberg
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 2:58 PM
To: RPPTL constructionlaw
Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] [RPPTL - QUESTION:no building permit....[Scanned]

I agree with your conclusion about Braverman.

I do think trying to enforce a lien under these facts is going to create a substantial problem and the vast majority of courts would find the agreement was intended to violate the law (if a permit was required) and will find that the Court's cannot be used to enforce an agreement that is illegal.

ed

Ed Kinberg

Fellow, National Contract Management Association

Board Certified, Construction Law Attorney

Government Contract Law, Construction Law, and Business Law

Attorneys At Law

1290 W. Eau Gallie Boulevard

Melbourne, FL 32935

Tel. (321) 259-1910

Fax (321) 259-1996

www.kblegal.com http://www.kblegal.com

This message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain information that is PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by telephone, and return the original to us by mail without making a copy. Thank you.

Replies Filtered: Any incoming reply to this e-mail communication or other e-mail communication to us will be electronically filtered for "spam" and/or "viruses." That filtering process may result in such reply or other e-mail communications to us being quarantined (i.e., potentially not received at our site at all) and/or delayed in reaching us. For that reason, we cannot guarantee that we will receive your reply or other e-mail communications to us and/or that we will receive the same in a timely manner. Accordingly, you should consider sending communications to us which are particularly important or time-sensitive by means other than e-mail.

From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Gibbons, Michael
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 2:32 PM
To: 'RPPTL constructionlaw'
Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] [RPPTL - QUESTION:no building permit....

Thanks Larry. I was not aware of the Braverman decision. However, I don't think it applies on these facts because the homeowner apparently contracted with the GC not to obtain a permit. In Braverman, the opposite occurred: owner's contract with GC expressly required GC to get the permit.Court relied on the express breach of contract in failing to obtain permit to hold that contractor had not performed and therefore had not earned the monies claimed in the lien. The Braverman decision was grounded on an express contractual undertaking not apparently present in the facts presented.

Michael R. Gibbons (Bio http://lowndes-law.com/our-people/michael-r-gibbons )
Shareholder
Lowndes, Drosdick, Doster, Kantor & Reed, P.A.
450 South Orange Avenue, 8th Floor
Orlando, FL 32801
Phone: 407-418-6378
Fax: 407-843-4444
email: michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.com mailto:michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.com
website: http://www.lowndes-law.com http://www.lowndes-law.com/

From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Larry Leiby
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 1:58 PM
To: RPPTL constructionlaw
Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] [RPPTL - QUESTION: no building permit....

See Braverman v. Van Bower, Inc., 558 So.2d 381 (Fla. 3rd DCA 1991).

Larry R. Leiby, Esq.

Malka & Kravitz, P.A.

1300 Sawgrass Corp. Pkwy., Suite 100

Ft. Lauderdale, FL 33323

Phone: 954-514-0984

Fax: 954-514-0985 e-mail: leiby@mkpalaw.com

Board Certified in Construction Law

Fla. Supreme Court Certified Circuit Court Civil Mediator

Member, Leiby Alexander Brandt ADR Group, LLC

Member, JAMS Global Engineering and Construction Panel

Fellow, College of Commercial Arbitrators

From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of mromm@rommlaw.com
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 1:40 PM
To: RPPTL constructionlaw
Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] [RPPTL - QUESTION: no building permit....

Does anybody know the answer to this question:

If general contractor fails to obtain a building permit (at owner's request because it was a small project at a home and the homeowner did not want to wait for or pay for the permit) and owner does not pay, can GC file a lien and foreclose?

I read the following and I am still confused:

§ 553.79. Permits; applications; issuance; inspections [Effective until July 1, 2012]

(1) After the effective date of the Florida Building Code adopted as herein provided, it shall be unlawful for any person, firm, corporation, or governmental entity to construct, erect, alter, modify, repair, or demolish any building within this state without first obtaining a permit therefor from the appropriate enforcing agency or from such persons as may, by appropriate resolution or regulation of the authorized state or local enforcing agency, be delegated authority to issue such permits, upon the payment of such reasonable fees adopted by the enforcing agency. The enforcing agency is empowered to revoke any such permit upon a determination by the agency that the construction, erection, alteration, modification, repair, or demolition of the building for which the permit was issued is in violation of, or not in conformity with, the provisions of the Florida Building Code. Installation, replacement, removal, or metering of any load management control device is exempt from and shall not be subject to the permit process and fees otherwise required by this section.

§ 553.84. Statutory civil action
Notwithstanding any other remedies available, any person or party, in an individual capacity or on behalf of a class of persons or parties, damaged as a result of a violation of this part or the Florida Building Code, has a cause of action in any court of competent jurisdiction against the person or party who committed the violation; however, if the person or party obtains the required building permits and any local government or public agency with authority to enforce the Florida Building Code approves the plans, if the construction project passes all required inspections under the code, and if there is no personal injury or damage to property other than the property that is the subject of the permits, plans, and inspections, this section does not apply unless the person or party knew or should have known that the violation existed.

and Comptech v. Milam Commerce: 711 So.2d 1255 (Fla. 3rd DCA, 1998) which says no statutory cause of action for violating 553.79 under 553.84 because it is barred by economic loss if construction done under a contract....

Help?

Michael Romm

Michael R. Romm, P.A.

1213 S. 30th Avenue, Suite 2, Hollywood, FL 33020

Phone: (954) 557-8002

Fax: (954) 208-0022

mromm@rommlaw.com mailto:mromm@rommlaw.com

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The information and all attachments contained in this electronic communication are legally privileged and confidential information, subject to the attorney-client privilege and intended only for the use of intended recipients. If the reader of this message is not an intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately of the error by return email and please permanently remove any copies of this message from your system and do not retain any copies, whether in electronic or physical form or otherwise. Unauthorized interception of this e-mail is a violation of federal criminal law.

TAX ADVICE DISCLOSURE: Pursuant to the requirements of Internal Revenue Service Circular 230, we advise you that any federal tax advice contained in this communication (including any attachments) is not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of: (1) avoiding penalties that maybe imposed under the Internal Revenue Code or (2) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any transaction or matter addressed in this communication.

Disclaimer regarding Uniform Electronic Transactions Act ("UETA") (Florida Statutes Section 668.50): If this communication concerns negotiation of a contract or agreement, UETA does not apply to this communication; contract formation in this matter shall occur only with manually-affixed original signatures on original documents. Law Offices of Michael R. Romm, P.A.

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] ABA - Construction Law Forum
From: "Michael Kamprath" <Michael.Kamprath@thresherpa.com <mailto:Michael.Kamprath@thresherpa.com> >
Date: Thu, April 12, 2012 11:55 am
To: "'RPPTL constructionlaw'" <constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org <mailto:constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org> >

For all the members who wish to get active in the ABA Forum on the Construction Industry, I would encourage you, if you are not already, to join the ABA.  Membership is currently free through August 31 along with membership in one Section or Forum.  You can do this by going to this site: http://joinaba.org/200916738 <http://joinaba.org/200916738>  Or by calling 1-800-285-2221 and mention promotion code RMM11MRRC.  Once you join the Section or Forum, you will have the opportunity to join a Division or Committee.

Michael T. Kamprath

Board Certified in Construction Law

Thresher & Thresher, P.A.

400 North Tampa Street,

Suite 1320

Tampa, Florida 33602

Phone: 813 229 7744

Facsimile: 813 228 0367

From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org>  [mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> ] On Behalf Of Charles Kramer
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 10:43 AM
To: 'RPPTL constructionlaw'
Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] ABA - Construction Law Forum

Division 5. Contract Negotiations, Performance and Admin.

Highest regards, 

CONFIDENTIALITY: This electronic message transmission contains information from the law firm Rogers, Morris & Ziegler LLP that is considered confidential or privileged.  The information is intended solely for the recipient and use by any other party is not authorized.  If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify me immediately by telephone (954-462-1431).

From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org>  [mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> ] On Behalf Of fred.dudley@hklaw.com <mailto:fred.dudley@hklaw.com> 
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 8:45 AM
To: constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org <mailto:constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org> 
Subject: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] ABA - Construction Law Forum

As I requested during yesterday meeting, attached from Cary Wright is a list of the 12 divisions of the Forum, which also reflects the members of each division's Steering Committee. Can you find the one Arnie serves on?       

It's amazing the number of Florida attorneys (and our CLC members) who are active in this Forum, but with George Myer as chair, we should get MORE active.

How about picking one you like and letting us know??

****IRS CIRCULAR 230 DISCLOSURE: TO ENSURE COMPLIANCE WITH REQUIREMENTS IMPOSED BY THE IRS, WE INFORM YOU THAT ANY TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS COMMUNICATION (INCLUDING ANY ATTACHMENTS) IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN BY HOLLAND & KNIGHT LLP TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, FOR THE PURPOSE OF (I) AVOIDING TAX-RELATED PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE, OR (II) PROMOTING, MARKETING, OR RECOMMENDING TO ANOTHER PARTY ANY TAX-RELATED MATTER HEREIN.****

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Notice Under U.S. Treasury Department Circular 230: To the extent that this e-mail communication and the attachment(s) hereto, if any, may contain written advice concerning or relating to a Federal (U.S.) tax issue, United States Treasury Department Regulations (Circular 230) require that we (and we do hereby) advise and disclose to you that, unless we expressly state otherwise in writing, such tax advice is not written or intended to be used, and cannot be used by you (the addressee), or other person(s), for purposes of (1) avoiding penalties imposed under the United States Internal Revenue Code or (2) promoting, marketing or recommending to any other person(s) the (or any of the) transaction(s) or matter(s) addressed, discussed or referenced herein. Each taxpayer should seek advice from an independent tax advisor with respect to any Federal tax issue(s), transaction(s) or matter(s) addressed, discussed or referenced herein based upon his, her or its particular circumstances. [v4.30]

There are cases out there that find participation in an illegal act results in the court taking no action to support the parties that knowingly participated in the illegality. ed Ed Kinberg Fellow, National Contract Management Association Board Certified, Construction Law Attorney Government Contract Law, Construction Law, and Business Law Attorneys At Law 1290 W. Eau Gallie Boulevard Melbourne, FL 32935 Tel. (321) 259-1910 Fax (321) 259-1996 www.kblegal.com <http://www.kblegal.com> This message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain information that is PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by telephone, and return the original to us by mail without making a copy. Thank you. Replies Filtered: Any incoming reply to this e-mail communication or other e-mail communication to us will be electronically filtered for "spam" and/or "viruses." That filtering process may result in such reply or other e-mail communications to us being quarantined (i.e., potentially not received at our site at all) and/or delayed in reaching us. For that reason, we cannot guarantee that we will receive your reply or other e-mail communications to us and/or that we will receive the same in a timely manner. Accordingly, you should consider sending communications to us which are particularly important or time-sensitive by means other than e-mail. From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of David C. Agee Sent: Friday, April 13, 2012 2:51 PM To: RPPTL constructionlaw Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] [RPPTL -QUESTION:no building permit....[Scanned] I think it is a tough road to follow, but wouldn't there still be an equitable lien for services rendered, the waters could get muddied pretty fast as I'd bet as a practical matter not all the work required a permit. David C. Agee, Esquire REID & AGEE, PLLC 3633 26th Street West Bradenton, FL 34205 Tel 941.756.8791 Fax 941.755.7311 *************Ask us about Real Estate and Estate Planning************************ The information transmitted in this email, including any attachments, is from Reid & Agee, PLLC and is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521. This electronic information is intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is strictly prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender via telephone at (941) 756-8791 or reply email and delete the email and any attachments from any computer. Thank You. IRS Circular 230 Disclosure: To the extent that this message or any attachment concerns tax matters, it is not intended to be used as or intended to constitute a "reliance opinion" under applicable Treasury Regulations, and accordingly this message or any attachment is not intended or written to be used, and may not be used or relied upon, for the purpose of (i) avoiding tax-related penalties that may be imposed by the Internal Revenue Service, or (ii) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any tax-related matters addressed herein. Please be assured that this policy does not reflect any decrease in the quality of services or the amount of thought that we put in our correspondence. From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Ed Kinberg Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 2:58 PM To: RPPTL constructionlaw Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] [RPPTL - QUESTION:no building permit....[Scanned] I agree with your conclusion about Braverman. I do think trying to enforce a lien under these facts is going to create a substantial problem and the vast majority of courts would find the agreement was intended to violate the law (if a permit was required) and will find that the Court's cannot be used to enforce an agreement that is illegal. ed Ed Kinberg Fellow, National Contract Management Association Board Certified, Construction Law Attorney Government Contract Law, Construction Law, and Business Law Attorneys At Law 1290 W. Eau Gallie Boulevard Melbourne, FL 32935 Tel. (321) 259-1910 Fax (321) 259-1996 www.kblegal.com <http://www.kblegal.com> This message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain information that is PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by telephone, and return the original to us by mail without making a copy. Thank you. Replies Filtered: Any incoming reply to this e-mail communication or other e-mail communication to us will be electronically filtered for "spam" and/or "viruses." That filtering process may result in such reply or other e-mail communications to us being quarantined (i.e., potentially not received at our site at all) and/or delayed in reaching us. For that reason, we cannot guarantee that we will receive your reply or other e-mail communications to us and/or that we will receive the same in a timely manner. Accordingly, you should consider sending communications to us which are particularly important or time-sensitive by means other than e-mail. From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Gibbons, Michael Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 2:32 PM To: 'RPPTL constructionlaw' Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] [RPPTL - QUESTION:no building permit.... Thanks Larry. I was not aware of the Braverman decision. However, I don't think it applies on these facts because the homeowner apparently contracted with the GC not to obtain a permit. In Braverman, the opposite occurred: owner's contract with GC expressly required GC to get the permit.Court relied on the express breach of contract in failing to obtain permit to hold that contractor had not performed and therefore had not earned the monies claimed in the lien. The Braverman decision was grounded on an express contractual undertaking not apparently present in the facts presented. Michael R. Gibbons (Bio <http://lowndes-law.com/our-people/michael-r-gibbons> ) Shareholder Lowndes, Drosdick, Doster, Kantor & Reed, P.A. 450 South Orange Avenue, 8th Floor Orlando, FL 32801 Phone: 407-418-6378 Fax: 407-843-4444 email: michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.com <mailto:michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.com> website: http://www.lowndes-law.com <http://www.lowndes-law.com/> ________________________________ From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Larry Leiby Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 1:58 PM To: RPPTL constructionlaw Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] [RPPTL - QUESTION: no building permit.... See Braverman v. Van Bower, Inc., 558 So.2d 381 (Fla. 3rd DCA 1991). Larry R. Leiby, Esq. Malka & Kravitz, P.A. 1300 Sawgrass Corp. Pkwy., Suite 100 Ft. Lauderdale, FL 33323 Phone: 954-514-0984 Fax: 954-514-0985 e-mail: leiby@mkpalaw.com Board Certified in Construction Law Fla. Supreme Court Certified Circuit Court Civil Mediator Member, Leiby Alexander Brandt ADR Group, LLC Member, JAMS Global Engineering and Construction Panel Fellow, College of Commercial Arbitrators From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of mromm@rommlaw.com Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 1:40 PM To: RPPTL constructionlaw Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] [RPPTL - QUESTION: no building permit.... Does anybody know the answer to this question: If general contractor fails to obtain a building permit (at owner's request because it was a small project at a home and the homeowner did not want to wait for or pay for the permit) and owner does not pay, can GC file a lien and foreclose? I read the following and I am still confused: § 553.79. Permits; applications; issuance; inspections [Effective until July 1, 2012] (1) After the effective date of the Florida Building Code adopted as herein provided, it shall be unlawful for any person, firm, corporation, or governmental entity to construct, erect, alter, modify, repair, or demolish any building within this state without first obtaining a permit therefor from the appropriate enforcing agency or from such persons as may, by appropriate resolution or regulation of the authorized state or local enforcing agency, be delegated authority to issue such permits, upon the payment of such reasonable fees adopted by the enforcing agency. The enforcing agency is empowered to revoke any such permit upon a determination by the agency that the construction, erection, alteration, modification, repair, or demolition of the building for which the permit was issued is in violation of, or not in conformity with, the provisions of the Florida Building Code. Installation, replacement, removal, or metering of any load management control device is exempt from and shall not be subject to the permit process and fees otherwise required by this section. § 553.84. Statutory civil action Notwithstanding any other remedies available, any person or party, in an individual capacity or on behalf of a class of persons or parties, damaged as a result of a violation of this part or the Florida Building Code, has a cause of action in any court of competent jurisdiction against the person or party who committed the violation; however, if the person or party obtains the required building permits and any local government or public agency with authority to enforce the Florida Building Code approves the plans, if the construction project passes all required inspections under the code, and if there is no personal injury or damage to property other than the property that is the subject of the permits, plans, and inspections, this section does not apply unless the person or party knew or should have known that the violation existed. and Comptech v. Milam Commerce: 711 So.2d 1255 (Fla. 3rd DCA, 1998) which says no statutory cause of action for violating 553.79 under 553.84 because it is barred by economic loss if construction done under a contract.... Help? Michael Romm Michael R. Romm, P.A. 1213 S. 30th Avenue, Suite 2, Hollywood, FL 33020 Phone: (954) 557-8002 Fax: (954) 208-0022 mromm@rommlaw.com <mailto:mromm@rommlaw.com> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The information and all attachments contained in this electronic communication are legally privileged and confidential information, subject to the attorney-client privilege and intended only for the use of intended recipients. If the reader of this message is not an intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately of the error by return email and please permanently remove any copies of this message from your system and do not retain any copies, whether in electronic or physical form or otherwise. Unauthorized interception of this e-mail is a violation of federal criminal law. TAX ADVICE DISCLOSURE: Pursuant to the requirements of Internal Revenue Service Circular 230, we advise you that any federal tax advice contained in this communication (including any attachments) is not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of: (1) avoiding penalties that maybe imposed under the Internal Revenue Code or (2) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any transaction or matter addressed in this communication. Disclaimer regarding Uniform Electronic Transactions Act ("UETA") (Florida Statutes Section 668.50): If this communication concerns negotiation of a contract or agreement, UETA does not apply to this communication; contract formation in this matter shall occur only with manually-affixed original signatures on original documents. Law Offices of Michael R. Romm, P.A. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] ABA - Construction Law Forum From: "Michael Kamprath" <Michael.Kamprath@thresherpa.com <mailto:Michael.Kamprath@thresherpa.com> > Date: Thu, April 12, 2012 11:55 am To: "'RPPTL constructionlaw'" <constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org <mailto:constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org> > For all the members who wish to get active in the ABA Forum on the Construction Industry, I would encourage you, if you are not already, to join the ABA. Membership is currently free through August 31 along with membership in one Section or Forum. You can do this by going to this site: http://joinaba.org/200916738 <http://joinaba.org/200916738> Or by calling 1-800-285-2221 and mention promotion code RMM11MRRC. Once you join the Section or Forum, you will have the opportunity to join a Division or Committee. Michael T. Kamprath Board Certified in Construction Law Thresher & Thresher, P.A. 400 North Tampa Street, Suite 1320 Tampa, Florida 33602 Phone: 813 229 7744 Facsimile: 813 228 0367 From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> [mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> ] On Behalf Of Charles Kramer Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 10:43 AM To: 'RPPTL constructionlaw' Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] ABA - Construction Law Forum Division 5. Contract Negotiations, Performance and Admin. Highest regards, CONFIDENTIALITY: This electronic message transmission contains information from the law firm Rogers, Morris & Ziegler LLP that is considered confidential or privileged. The information is intended solely for the recipient and use by any other party is not authorized. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify me immediately by telephone (954-462-1431). From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> [mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> ] On Behalf Of fred.dudley@hklaw.com <mailto:fred.dudley@hklaw.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 8:45 AM To: constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org <mailto:constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org> Subject: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] ABA - Construction Law Forum As I requested during yesterday meeting, attached from Cary Wright is a list of the 12 divisions of the Forum, which also reflects the members of each division's Steering Committee. Can you find the one Arnie serves on? It's amazing the number of Florida attorneys (and our CLC members) who are active in this Forum, but with George Myer as chair, we should get MORE active. How about picking one you like and letting us know?? ________________________________ ****IRS CIRCULAR 230 DISCLOSURE: TO ENSURE COMPLIANCE WITH REQUIREMENTS IMPOSED BY THE IRS, WE INFORM YOU THAT ANY TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS COMMUNICATION (INCLUDING ANY ATTACHMENTS) IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN BY HOLLAND & KNIGHT LLP TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, FOR THE PURPOSE OF (I) AVOIDING TAX-RELATED PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE, OR (II) PROMOTING, MARKETING, OR RECOMMENDING TO ANOTHER PARTY ANY TAX-RELATED MATTER HEREIN.**** ________________________________ NOTE: This e-mail is from a law firm, Holland & Knight LLP ("H&K"), and is intended solely for the use of the individual(s) to whom it is addressed. If you believe you received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately, delete the e-mail from your computer and do not copy or disclose it to anyone else. If you are not an existing client of H&K, do not construe anything in this e-mail to make you a client unless it contains a specific statement to that effect and do not disclose anything to H&K in reply that you expect it to hold in confidence. If you properly received this e-mail as a client, co-counsel or retained expert of H&K, you should maintain its contents in confidence in order to preserve the attorney-client or work product privilege that may be available to protect confidentiality. ________________________________ _______________________________________________ constructionlaw mailing list constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org <mailto:constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org> http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/constructionlaw <http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/constructionlaw> Notice of Confidentiality: This e-mail communication and the attachment(s) hereto, if any, are intended solely for the information and use of the addressee(s) identified above and may contain information which is legally privileged from disclosure and/or otherwise confidential. If a recipient of this e-mail communication is not an addressee (or an authorized representative of an addressee), such recipient is hereby advised that any review, disclosure, reproduction, re-transmission or other dissemination or use of this e-mail communication (or any information contained herein) is strictly prohibited. If you are not an addressee and have received this e-mail communication in error, please advise the sender of that circumstance either by reply e-mail or by telephone at (800) 356-6818, immediately delete this e-mail communication from any computer and destroy all physical copies of same. Replies Filtered: Any incoming reply to this e-mail communication or other e-mail communication to us will be electronically filtered for "spam" and/or "viruses." That filtering process may result in such reply or other e-mail communications to us being quarantined (i.e., potentially not received at our site at all) and/or delayed in reaching us. For that reason, we cannot guarantee that we will receive your reply or other e-mail communications to us and/or that we will receive the same in a timely manner. Accordingly, you should consider sending communications to us which are particularly important or time-sensitive by means other than e-mail. Notice Under U.S. Treasury Department Circular 230: To the extent that this e-mail communication and the attachment(s) hereto, if any, may contain written advice concerning or relating to a Federal (U.S.) tax issue, United States Treasury Department Regulations (Circular 230) require that we (and we do hereby) advise and disclose to you that, unless we expressly state otherwise in writing, such tax advice is not written or intended to be used, and cannot be used by you (the addressee), or other person(s), for purposes of (1) avoiding penalties imposed under the United States Internal Revenue Code or (2) promoting, marketing or recommending to any other person(s) the (or any of the) transaction(s) or matter(s) addressed, discussed or referenced herein. Each taxpayer should seek advice from an independent tax advisor with respect to any Federal tax issue(s), transaction(s) or matter(s) addressed, discussed or referenced herein based upon his, her or its particular circumstances. [v4.30]

CB

Charles B. Hernicz, Esq

Fri, Apr 13, 2012 7:44 PM

There is no basis for an equitable lien when the lienor comes to bar with
unclean hands. Conspiring to violate law and failing to comply with the
requirements of law (permitting) would bar a claim of equitable lien.

Chuck

Charles B. Hernicz, Esq.
Board Certified in Construction Law by The Florida Bar
Hernicz Legal Services, P.L.
15854 Bent Creek Road
Wellington, FL 33414
Telephone: (561) 753-7511
Facsimile: (561) 753-7082
Chernicz@HerniczLegal.com

From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org
[mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of David C.
Agee
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2012 2:51 PM
To: RPPTL constructionlaw
Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] [RPPTL - QUESTION:no building
permit....[Scanned]

I think it is a tough road to follow, but wouldnt there still be an
equitable lien for services rendered, the waters could get muddied pretty
fast as Id bet as a practical matter not all the work required a permit.

David C. Agee, Esquire

REID & AGEE, PLLC

3633 26th Street West

Bradenton, FL 34205

Tel 941.756.8791

Fax 941.755.7311

Ask us about Real Estate and Estate
Planning***********

The information transmitted in this email, including any attachments, is
from Reid & Agee, PLLC and is covered by the Electronic Communications
Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521. This electronic information is intended
only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which it is addressed and may
contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review,
retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in
reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the
intended recipient(s) is strictly prohibited. If you received this in
error, please contact the sender via telephone at (941) 756-8791 or reply
email and delete the email and any attachments from any computer. Thank
You.

IRS Circular 230 Disclosure: To the extent that this message or any
attachment concerns tax matters, it is not intended to be used as or
intended to constitute a "reliance opinion" under applicable Treasury
Regulations, and accordingly this message or any attachment is not intended
or written to be used, and may not be used or relied upon, for the purpose
of (i) avoiding tax-related penalties that may be imposed by the Internal
Revenue Service, or (ii) promoting, marketing or recommending to another
party any tax-related matters addressed herein. Please be assured that this
policy does not reflect any decrease in the quality of services or the
amount of thought that we put in our correspondence.

From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org
[mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Ed
Kinberg
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 2:58 PM
To: RPPTL constructionlaw
Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] [RPPTL - QUESTION:no building
permit....[Scanned]

I agree with your conclusion about Braverman.

I do think trying to enforce a lien under these facts is going to create a
substantial problem and the vast majority of courts would find the agreement
was intended to violate the law (if a permit was required) and will find
that the Courts cannot be used to enforce an agreement that is illegal.

ed

Ed Kinberg

Fellow, National Contract Management Association

Board Certified, Construction Law Attorney

Government Contract Law, Construction Law, and Business Law

kinberg_jpg_bw

Attorneys At Law

1290 W. Eau Gallie Boulevard

Melbourne, FL 32935

Tel. (321) 259-1910

Fax (321) 259-1996

http://www.kblegal.com www.kblegal.com

This message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to
which it is addressed, and may contain information that is PRIVILEGED,
CONFIDENTIAL and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader
of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent
responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this
communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this
communication in error, please notify us immediately by telephone, and
return the original to us by mail without making a copy. Thank you.

Replies Filtered: Any incoming reply to this e-mail communication or other
e-mail communication to us will be electronically filtered for "spam" and/or
"viruses." That filtering process may result in such reply or other e-mail
communications to us being quarantined (i.e., potentially not received at
our site at all) and/or delayed in reaching us. For that reason, we cannot
guarantee that we will receive your reply or other e-mail communications to
us and/or that we will receive the same in a timely manner. Accordingly, you
should consider sending communications to us which are particularly
important or time-sensitive by means other than e-mail.

From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org
[mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Gibbons,
Michael
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 2:32 PM
To: 'RPPTL constructionlaw'
Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] [RPPTL - QUESTION:no building
permit....

Thanks Larry. I was not aware of the Braverman decision. However, I
don't think it applies on these facts because the homeowner apparently
contracted with the GC not to obtain a permit. In Braverman, the opposite
occurred: owner's contract with GC expressly required GC to get the
permit.Court relied on the express breach of contract in failing to obtain
permit to hold that contractor had not performed and therefore had not
earned the monies claimed in the lien. The Braverman decision was grounded
on an express contractual undertaking not apparently present in the facts
presented.

Michael R. Gibbons (Bio
http://lowndes-law.com/our-people/michael-r-gibbons )
Shareholder
Lowndes, Drosdick, Doster, Kantor & Reed, P.A.
450 South Orange Avenue, 8th Floor
Orlando, FL 32801
Phone: 407-418-6378
Fax: 407-843-4444
email: mailto:michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.com
michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.com
website: http://www.lowndes-law.com/ http://www.lowndes-law.com

From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org
[mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Larry
Leiby
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 1:58 PM
To: RPPTL constructionlaw
Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] [RPPTL - QUESTION: no building
permit....

See Braverman v. Van Bower, Inc., 558 So.2d 381 (Fla. 3rd DCA 1991).

Larry R. Leiby, Esq.

Malka & Kravitz, P.A.

1300 Sawgrass Corp. Pkwy., Suite 100

Ft. Lauderdale, FL 33323

Phone: 954-514-0984

Fax: 954-514-0985 e-mail: leiby@mkpalaw.com

Board Certified in Construction Law

Fla. Supreme Court Certified Circuit Court Civil Mediator

Member, Leiby Alexander Brandt ADR Group, LLC

Member, JAMS Global Engineering and Construction Panel

Fellow, College of Commercial Arbitrators

From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org
[mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of
mromm@rommlaw.com
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 1:40 PM
To: RPPTL constructionlaw
Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] [RPPTL - QUESTION: no building
permit....

Does anybody know the answer to this question:

If general contractor fails to obtain a building permit (at owner's request
because it was a small project at a home and the homeowner did not want to
wait for or pay for the permit) and owner does not pay, can GC file a lien
and foreclose?

I read the following and I am still confused:

§ 553.79. Permits; applications; issuance; inspections [Effective until
July 1, 2012]

(1) After the effective date of the Florida Building Code adopted as
herein provided, it shall be unlawful for any person, firm, corporation, or
governmental entity to construct, erect, alter, modify, repair, or demolish
any building within this state without first obtaining a permit therefor
from the appropriate enforcing agency or from such persons as may, by
appropriate resolution or regulation of the authorized state or local
enforcing agency, be delegated authority to issue such permits, upon the
payment of such reasonable fees adopted by the enforcing agency. The
enforcing agency is empowered to revoke any such permit upon a determination
by the agency that the construction, erection, alteration, modification,
repair, or demolition of the building for which the permit was issued is in
violation of, or not in conformity with, the provisions of the Florida
Building Code. Installation, replacement, removal, or metering of any load
management control device is exempt from and shall not be subject to the
permit process and fees otherwise required by this section.

§ 553.84. Statutory civil action
Notwithstanding any other remedies available, any person or party, in an
individual capacity or on behalf of a class of persons or parties, damaged
as a result of a violation of this part or the Florida Building Code, has a
cause of action in any court of competent jurisdiction against the person or
party who committed the violation; however, if the person or party obtains
the required building permits and any local government or public agency with
authority to enforce the Florida Building Code approves the plans, if the
construction project passes all required inspections under the code, and if
there is no personal injury or damage to property other than the property
that is the subject of the permits, plans, and inspections, this section
does not apply unless the person or party knew or should have known that the
violation existed.

and Comptech v. Milam Commerce: 711 So.2d 1255 (Fla. 3rd DCA, 1998) which
says no statutory cause of action for violating 553.79 under 553.84 because
it is barred by economic loss if construction done under a contract....

Help?

Michael Romm

Michael R. Romm, P.A.

1213 S. 30th Avenue, Suite 2, Hollywood, FL 33020

Phone: (954) 557-8002

Fax: (954) 208-0022

mailto:mromm@rommlaw.com mromm@rommlaw.com

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The information and all attachments contained in
this electronic communication are legally privileged and confidential
information, subject to the attorney-client privilege and intended only for
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TAX ADVICE DISCLOSURE: Pursuant to the requirements of Internal Revenue
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Disclaimer regarding Uniform Electronic Transactions Act ("UETA") (Florida
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formation in this matter shall occur only with manually-affixed original
signatures on original documents. Law Offices of Michael R. Romm, P.A.

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] ABA - Construction Law Forum
From: "Michael Kamprath" < mailto:Michael.Kamprath@thresherpa.com
Michael.Kamprath@thresherpa.com>
Date: Thu, April 12, 2012 11:55 am
To: "'RPPTL constructionlaw'" <
mailto:constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org
constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org>

For all the members who wish to get active in the ABA Forum on the
Construction Industry, I would encourage you, if you are not already, to
join the ABA. Membership is currently free through August 31 along with
membership in one Section or Forum. You can do this by going to this site:
http://joinaba.org/200916738 http://joinaba.org/200916738 Or by calling
1-800-285-2221 and mention promotion code RMM11MRRC. Once you join the
Section or Forum, you will have the opportunity to join a Division or
Committee.

Michael T. Kamprath

Board Certified in Construction Law

Thresher & Thresher, P.A.

400 North Tampa Street,

Suite 1320

Tampa, Florida 33602

Phone: 813 229 7744

Facsimile: 813 228 0367

From: mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org
constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [
mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org
mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Charles
Kramer
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 10:43 AM
To: 'RPPTL constructionlaw'
Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] ABA - Construction Law Forum

Division 5. Contract Negotiations, Performance and Admin.

Highest regards,

cid:image0066952.jpg

CONFIDENTIALITY: This electronic message transmission contains information
from the law firm Rogers, Morris & Ziegler LLP that is considered
confidential or privileged. The information is intended solely for the
recipient and use by any other party is not authorized. If you are not the
intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or
use of the contents of this information is prohibited. If you have received
this electronic transmission in error, please notify me immediately by
telephone (954-462-1431).

From: mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org
constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [
mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org
mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of
mailto:fred.dudley@hklaw.com fred.dudley@hklaw.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 8:45 AM
To: mailto:constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org
constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] ABA - Construction Law Forum

As I requested during yesterday meeting, attached from Cary Wright is a list
of the 12 divisions of the Forum, which also reflects the members of each
divisions Steering Committee. Can you find the one Arnie serves on?

Its amazing the number of Florida attorneys (and our CLC members) who are
active in this Forum, but with George Myer as chair, we should get MORE
active.

How about picking one you like and letting us know??

IRS CIRCULAR 230 DISCLOSURE: TO ENSURE COMPLIANCE WITH REQUIREMENTS
IMPOSED BY THE IRS, WE INFORM YOU THAT ANY TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS
COMMUNICATION (INCLUDING ANY ATTACHMENTS) IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN BY
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AVOIDING TAX-RELATED PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE, OR (II)
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There is no basis for an equitable lien when the lienor comes to bar with unclean hands. Conspiring to violate law and failing to comply with the requirements of law (permitting) would bar a claim of equitable lien. Chuck Charles B. Hernicz, Esq. Board Certified in Construction Law by The Florida Bar Hernicz Legal Services, P.L. 15854 Bent Creek Road Wellington, FL 33414 Telephone: (561) 753-7511 Facsimile: (561) 753-7082 Chernicz@HerniczLegal.com From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of David C. Agee Sent: Friday, April 13, 2012 2:51 PM To: RPPTL constructionlaw Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] [RPPTL - QUESTION:no building permit....[Scanned] I think it is a tough road to follow, but wouldnt there still be an equitable lien for services rendered, the waters could get muddied pretty fast as Id bet as a practical matter not all the work required a permit. David C. Agee, Esquire REID & AGEE, PLLC 3633 26th Street West Bradenton, FL 34205 Tel 941.756.8791 Fax 941.755.7311 *************Ask us about Real Estate and Estate Planning************************ The information transmitted in this email, including any attachments, is from Reid & Agee, PLLC and is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521. This electronic information is intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is strictly prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender via telephone at (941) 756-8791 or reply email and delete the email and any attachments from any computer. Thank You. IRS Circular 230 Disclosure: To the extent that this message or any attachment concerns tax matters, it is not intended to be used as or intended to constitute a "reliance opinion" under applicable Treasury Regulations, and accordingly this message or any attachment is not intended or written to be used, and may not be used or relied upon, for the purpose of (i) avoiding tax-related penalties that may be imposed by the Internal Revenue Service, or (ii) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any tax-related matters addressed herein. Please be assured that this policy does not reflect any decrease in the quality of services or the amount of thought that we put in our correspondence. From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Ed Kinberg Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 2:58 PM To: RPPTL constructionlaw Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] [RPPTL - QUESTION:no building permit....[Scanned] I agree with your conclusion about Braverman. I do think trying to enforce a lien under these facts is going to create a substantial problem and the vast majority of courts would find the agreement was intended to violate the law (if a permit was required) and will find that the Courts cannot be used to enforce an agreement that is illegal. ed Ed Kinberg Fellow, National Contract Management Association Board Certified, Construction Law Attorney Government Contract Law, Construction Law, and Business Law kinberg_jpg_bw Attorneys At Law 1290 W. Eau Gallie Boulevard Melbourne, FL 32935 Tel. (321) 259-1910 Fax (321) 259-1996 <http://www.kblegal.com> www.kblegal.com This message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain information that is PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by telephone, and return the original to us by mail without making a copy. Thank you. Replies Filtered: Any incoming reply to this e-mail communication or other e-mail communication to us will be electronically filtered for "spam" and/or "viruses." That filtering process may result in such reply or other e-mail communications to us being quarantined (i.e., potentially not received at our site at all) and/or delayed in reaching us. For that reason, we cannot guarantee that we will receive your reply or other e-mail communications to us and/or that we will receive the same in a timely manner. Accordingly, you should consider sending communications to us which are particularly important or time-sensitive by means other than e-mail. From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Gibbons, Michael Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 2:32 PM To: 'RPPTL constructionlaw' Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] [RPPTL - QUESTION:no building permit.... Thanks Larry. I was not aware of the Braverman decision. However, I don't think it applies on these facts because the homeowner apparently contracted with the GC not to obtain a permit. In Braverman, the opposite occurred: owner's contract with GC expressly required GC to get the permit.Court relied on the express breach of contract in failing to obtain permit to hold that contractor had not performed and therefore had not earned the monies claimed in the lien. The Braverman decision was grounded on an express contractual undertaking not apparently present in the facts presented. Michael R. Gibbons (Bio <http://lowndes-law.com/our-people/michael-r-gibbons> ) Shareholder Lowndes, Drosdick, Doster, Kantor & Reed, P.A. 450 South Orange Avenue, 8th Floor Orlando, FL 32801 Phone: 407-418-6378 Fax: 407-843-4444 email: <mailto:michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.com> michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.com website: <http://www.lowndes-law.com/> http://www.lowndes-law.com _____ From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Larry Leiby Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 1:58 PM To: RPPTL constructionlaw Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] [RPPTL - QUESTION: no building permit.... See Braverman v. Van Bower, Inc., 558 So.2d 381 (Fla. 3rd DCA 1991). Larry R. Leiby, Esq. Malka & Kravitz, P.A. 1300 Sawgrass Corp. Pkwy., Suite 100 Ft. Lauderdale, FL 33323 Phone: 954-514-0984 Fax: 954-514-0985 e-mail: leiby@mkpalaw.com Board Certified in Construction Law Fla. Supreme Court Certified Circuit Court Civil Mediator Member, Leiby Alexander Brandt ADR Group, LLC Member, JAMS Global Engineering and Construction Panel Fellow, College of Commercial Arbitrators From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of mromm@rommlaw.com Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 1:40 PM To: RPPTL constructionlaw Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] [RPPTL - QUESTION: no building permit.... Does anybody know the answer to this question: If general contractor fails to obtain a building permit (at owner's request because it was a small project at a home and the homeowner did not want to wait for or pay for the permit) and owner does not pay, can GC file a lien and foreclose? I read the following and I am still confused: § 553.79. Permits; applications; issuance; inspections [Effective until July 1, 2012] (1) After the effective date of the Florida Building Code adopted as herein provided, it shall be unlawful for any person, firm, corporation, or governmental entity to construct, erect, alter, modify, repair, or demolish any building within this state without first obtaining a permit therefor from the appropriate enforcing agency or from such persons as may, by appropriate resolution or regulation of the authorized state or local enforcing agency, be delegated authority to issue such permits, upon the payment of such reasonable fees adopted by the enforcing agency. The enforcing agency is empowered to revoke any such permit upon a determination by the agency that the construction, erection, alteration, modification, repair, or demolition of the building for which the permit was issued is in violation of, or not in conformity with, the provisions of the Florida Building Code. Installation, replacement, removal, or metering of any load management control device is exempt from and shall not be subject to the permit process and fees otherwise required by this section. § 553.84. Statutory civil action Notwithstanding any other remedies available, any person or party, in an individual capacity or on behalf of a class of persons or parties, damaged as a result of a violation of this part or the Florida Building Code, has a cause of action in any court of competent jurisdiction against the person or party who committed the violation; however, if the person or party obtains the required building permits and any local government or public agency with authority to enforce the Florida Building Code approves the plans, if the construction project passes all required inspections under the code, and if there is no personal injury or damage to property other than the property that is the subject of the permits, plans, and inspections, this section does not apply unless the person or party knew or should have known that the violation existed. and Comptech v. Milam Commerce: 711 So.2d 1255 (Fla. 3rd DCA, 1998) which says no statutory cause of action for violating 553.79 under 553.84 because it is barred by economic loss if construction done under a contract.... Help? Michael Romm Michael R. Romm, P.A. 1213 S. 30th Avenue, Suite 2, Hollywood, FL 33020 Phone: (954) 557-8002 Fax: (954) 208-0022 <mailto:mromm@rommlaw.com> mromm@rommlaw.com CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The information and all attachments contained in this electronic communication are legally privileged and confidential information, subject to the attorney-client privilege and intended only for the use of intended recipients. If the reader of this message is not an intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately of the error by return email and please permanently remove any copies of this message from your system and do not retain any copies, whether in electronic or physical form or otherwise. Unauthorized interception of this e-mail is a violation of federal criminal law. TAX ADVICE DISCLOSURE: Pursuant to the requirements of Internal Revenue Service Circular 230, we advise you that any federal tax advice contained in this communication (including any attachments) is not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of: (1) avoiding penalties that maybe imposed under the Internal Revenue Code or (2) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any transaction or matter addressed in this communication. Disclaimer regarding Uniform Electronic Transactions Act ("UETA") (Florida Statutes Section 668.50): If this communication concerns negotiation of a contract or agreement, UETA does not apply to this communication; contract formation in this matter shall occur only with manually-affixed original signatures on original documents. Law Offices of Michael R. Romm, P.A. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] ABA - Construction Law Forum From: "Michael Kamprath" < <mailto:Michael.Kamprath@thresherpa.com> Michael.Kamprath@thresherpa.com> Date: Thu, April 12, 2012 11:55 am To: "'RPPTL constructionlaw'" < <mailto:constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org> constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org> For all the members who wish to get active in the ABA Forum on the Construction Industry, I would encourage you, if you are not already, to join the ABA. Membership is currently free through August 31 along with membership in one Section or Forum. You can do this by going to this site: <http://joinaba.org/200916738> http://joinaba.org/200916738 Or by calling 1-800-285-2221 and mention promotion code RMM11MRRC. Once you join the Section or Forum, you will have the opportunity to join a Division or Committee. Michael T. Kamprath Board Certified in Construction Law Thresher & Thresher, P.A. 400 North Tampa Street, Suite 1320 Tampa, Florida 33602 Phone: 813 229 7744 Facsimile: 813 228 0367 From: <mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [ <mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Charles Kramer Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 10:43 AM To: 'RPPTL constructionlaw' Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] ABA - Construction Law Forum Division 5. Contract Negotiations, Performance and Admin. Highest regards, cid:image0066952.jpg CONFIDENTIALITY: This electronic message transmission contains information from the law firm Rogers, Morris & Ziegler LLP that is considered confidential or privileged. The information is intended solely for the recipient and use by any other party is not authorized. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify me immediately by telephone (954-462-1431). From: <mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [ <mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of <mailto:fred.dudley@hklaw.com> fred.dudley@hklaw.com Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 8:45 AM To: <mailto:constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org> constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org Subject: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] ABA - Construction Law Forum As I requested during yesterday meeting, attached from Cary Wright is a list of the 12 divisions of the Forum, which also reflects the members of each divisions Steering Committee. Can you find the one Arnie serves on? Its amazing the number of Florida attorneys (and our CLC members) who are active in this Forum, but with George Myer as chair, we should get MORE active. How about picking one you like and letting us know?? _____ ****IRS CIRCULAR 230 DISCLOSURE: TO ENSURE COMPLIANCE WITH REQUIREMENTS IMPOSED BY THE IRS, WE INFORM YOU THAT ANY TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS COMMUNICATION (INCLUDING ANY ATTACHMENTS) IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN BY HOLLAND & KNIGHT LLP TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, FOR THE PURPOSE OF (I) AVOIDING TAX-RELATED PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE, OR (II) PROMOTING, MARKETING, OR RECOMMENDING TO ANOTHER PARTY ANY TAX-RELATED MATTER HEREIN.**** _____ NOTE: This e-mail is from a law firm, Holland & Knight LLP (H&K), and is intended solely for the use of the individual(s) to whom it is addressed. If you believe you received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately, delete the e-mail from your computer and do not copy or disclose it to anyone else. If you are not an existing client of H&K, do not construe anything in this e-mail to make you a client unless it contains a specific statement to that effect and do not disclose anything to H&K in reply that you expect it to hold in confidence. If you properly received this e-mail as a client, co-counsel or retained expert of H&K, you should maintain its contents in confidence in order to preserve the attorney-client or work product privilege that may be available to protect confidentiality. _____ _______________________________________________ constructionlaw mailing list <mailto:constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org> constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org <http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/constructionlaw> http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/constructionlaw Notice of Confidentiality: This e-mail communication and the attachment(s) hereto, if any, are intended solely for the information and use of the addressee(s) identified above and may contain information which is legally privileged from disclosure and/or otherwise confidential. If a recipient of this e-mail communication is not an addressee (or an authorized representative of an addressee), such recipient is hereby advised that any review, disclosure, reproduction, re-transmission or other dissemination or use of this e-mail communication (or any information contained herein) is strictly prohibited. If you are not an addressee and have received this e-mail communication in error, please advise the sender of that circumstance either by reply e-mail or by telephone at (800) 356-6818, immediately delete this e-mail communication from any computer and destroy all physical copies of same. Replies Filtered: Any incoming reply to this e-mail communication or other e-mail communication to us will be electronically filtered for "spam" and/or "viruses." That filtering process may result in such reply or other e-mail communications to us being quarantined (i.e., potentially not received at our site at all) and/or delayed in reaching us. For that reason, we cannot guarantee that we will receive your reply or other e-mail communications to us and/or that we will receive the same in a timely manner. Accordingly, you should consider sending communications to us which are particularly important or time-sensitive by means other than e-mail. Notice Under U.S. Treasury Department Circular 230: To the extent that this e-mail communication and the attachment(s) hereto, if any, may contain written advice concerning or relating to a Federal (U.S.) tax issue, United States Treasury Department Regulations (Circular 230) require that we (and we do hereby) advise and disclose to you that, unless we expressly state otherwise in writing, such tax advice is not written or intended to be used, and cannot be used by you (the addressee), or other person(s), for purposes of (1) avoiding penalties imposed under the United States Internal Revenue Code or (2) promoting, marketing or recommending to any other person(s) the (or any of the) transaction(s) or matter(s) addressed, discussed or referenced herein. Each taxpayer should seek advice from an independent tax advisor with respect to any Federal tax issue(s), transaction(s) or matter(s) addressed, discussed or referenced herein based upon his, her or its particular circumstances. [v4.30]

DC

David C. Agee

Fri, Apr 13, 2012 8:45 PM

Unclean hands are an affirmative defense, which would hinge on whether the labor in question required a permit, not necessarily a complete bar to recover depending on the circumstance. Additionally, would materialmen and other subs unaware of the permitting issues have a claim under those facts?

David C. Agee, Esquire

REID & AGEE, PLLC

3633 26th Street West

Bradenton, FL 34205

Tel 941.756.8791

Fax 941.755.7311

Ask us about Real Estate and Estate Planning***********

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From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Charles B. Hernicz, Esq
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2012 3:45 PM
To: 'RPPTL constructionlaw'
Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] [RPPTL- QUESTION:no building permit....[Scanned]

There is no basis for an equitable lien when the lienor comes to bar with unclean hands. Conspiring to violate law and failing to comply with the requirements of law (permitting) would bar a claim of equitable lien.

Chuck

Charles B. Hernicz, Esq.
Board Certified in Construction Law by The Florida Bar
Hernicz Legal Services, P.L.
15854 Bent Creek Road
Wellington, FL 33414
Telephone: (561) 753-7511
Facsimile: (561) 753-7082
Chernicz@HerniczLegal.com

From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of David C. Agee
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2012 2:51 PM
To: RPPTL constructionlaw
Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] [RPPTL - QUESTION:no building permit....[Scanned]

I think it is a tough road to follow, but wouldn't there still be an equitable lien for services rendered, the waters could get muddied pretty fast as I'd bet as a practical matter not all the work required a permit.

David C. Agee, Esquire

REID & AGEE, PLLC

3633 26th Street West

Bradenton, FL 34205

Tel 941.756.8791

Fax 941.755.7311

Ask us about Real Estate and Estate Planning***********

The information transmitted in this email, including any attachments, is from Reid & Agee, PLLC and is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521. This electronic information is intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is strictly prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender via telephone at (941) 756-8791 or reply email and delete the email and any attachments from any computer. Thank You.

IRS Circular 230 Disclosure: To the extent that this message or any attachment concerns tax matters, it is not intended to be used as or intended to constitute a "reliance opinion" under applicable Treasury Regulations, and accordingly this message or any attachment is not intended or written to be used, and may not be used or relied upon, for the purpose of (i) avoiding tax-related penalties that may be imposed by the Internal Revenue Service, or (ii) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any tax-related matters addressed herein. Please be assured that this policy does not reflect any decrease in the quality of services or the amount of thought that we put in our correspondence.

From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Ed Kinberg
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 2:58 PM
To: RPPTL constructionlaw
Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] [RPPTL - QUESTION:no building permit....[Scanned]

I agree with your conclusion about Braverman.

I do think trying to enforce a lien under these facts is going to create a substantial problem and the vast majority of courts would find the agreement was intended to violate the law (if a permit was required) and will find that the Court's cannot be used to enforce an agreement that is illegal.

ed

Ed Kinberg

Fellow, National Contract Management Association

Board Certified, Construction Law Attorney

Government Contract Law, Construction Law, and Business Law

Attorneys At Law

1290 W. Eau Gallie Boulevard

Melbourne, FL 32935

Tel. (321) 259-1910

Fax (321) 259-1996

www.kblegal.com http://www.kblegal.com

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From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Gibbons, Michael
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 2:32 PM
To: 'RPPTL constructionlaw'
Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] [RPPTL - QUESTION:no building permit....

Thanks Larry. I was not aware of the Braverman decision. However, I don't think it applies on these facts because the homeowner apparently contracted with the GC not to obtain a permit. In Braverman, the opposite occurred: owner's contract with GC expressly required GC to get the permit.Court relied on the express breach of contract in failing to obtain permit to hold that contractor had not performed and therefore had not earned the monies claimed in the lien. The Braverman decision was grounded on an express contractual undertaking not apparently present in the facts presented.

Michael R. Gibbons (Bio http://lowndes-law.com/our-people/michael-r-gibbons )
Shareholder
Lowndes, Drosdick, Doster, Kantor & Reed, P.A.
450 South Orange Avenue, 8th Floor
Orlando, FL 32801
Phone: 407-418-6378
Fax: 407-843-4444
email: michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.com mailto:michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.com
website: http://www.lowndes-law.com http://www.lowndes-law.com/

From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Larry Leiby
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 1:58 PM
To: RPPTL constructionlaw
Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] [RPPTL - QUESTION: no building permit....

See Braverman v. Van Bower, Inc., 558 So.2d 381 (Fla. 3rd DCA 1991).

Larry R. Leiby, Esq.

Malka & Kravitz, P.A.

1300 Sawgrass Corp. Pkwy., Suite 100

Ft. Lauderdale, FL 33323

Phone: 954-514-0984

Fax: 954-514-0985 e-mail: leiby@mkpalaw.com

Board Certified in Construction Law

Fla. Supreme Court Certified Circuit Court Civil Mediator

Member, Leiby Alexander Brandt ADR Group, LLC

Member, JAMS Global Engineering and Construction Panel

Fellow, College of Commercial Arbitrators

From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of mromm@rommlaw.com
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 1:40 PM
To: RPPTL constructionlaw
Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] [RPPTL - QUESTION: no building permit....

Does anybody know the answer to this question:

If general contractor fails to obtain a building permit (at owner's request because it was a small project at a home and the homeowner did not want to wait for or pay for the permit) and owner does not pay, can GC file a lien and foreclose?

I read the following and I am still confused:

§ 553.79. Permits; applications; issuance; inspections [Effective until July 1, 2012]

(1) After the effective date of the Florida Building Code adopted as herein provided, it shall be unlawful for any person, firm, corporation, or governmental entity to construct, erect, alter, modify, repair, or demolish any building within this state without first obtaining a permit therefor from the appropriate enforcing agency or from such persons as may, by appropriate resolution or regulation of the authorized state or local enforcing agency, be delegated authority to issue such permits, upon the payment of such reasonable fees adopted by the enforcing agency. The enforcing agency is empowered to revoke any such permit upon a determination by the agency that the construction, erection, alteration, modification, repair, or demolition of the building for which the permit was issued is in violation of, or not in conformity with, the provisions of the Florida Building Code. Installation, replacement, removal, or metering of any load management control device is exempt from and shall not be subject to the permit process and fees otherwise required by this section.

§ 553.84. Statutory civil action
Notwithstanding any other remedies available, any person or party, in an individual capacity or on behalf of a class of persons or parties, damaged as a result of a violation of this part or the Florida Building Code, has a cause of action in any court of competent jurisdiction against the person or party who committed the violation; however, if the person or party obtains the required building permits and any local government or public agency with authority to enforce the Florida Building Code approves the plans, if the construction project passes all required inspections under the code, and if there is no personal injury or damage to property other than the property that is the subject of the permits, plans, and inspections, this section does not apply unless the person or party knew or should have known that the violation existed.

and Comptech v. Milam Commerce: 711 So.2d 1255 (Fla. 3rd DCA, 1998) which says no statutory cause of action for violating 553.79 under 553.84 because it is barred by economic loss if construction done under a contract....

Help?

Michael Romm

Michael R. Romm, P.A.

1213 S. 30th Avenue, Suite 2, Hollywood, FL 33020

Phone: (954) 557-8002

Fax: (954) 208-0022

mromm@rommlaw.com mailto:mromm@rommlaw.com

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-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] ABA - Construction Law Forum
From: "Michael Kamprath" <Michael.Kamprath@thresherpa.com <mailto:Michael.Kamprath@thresherpa.com> >
Date: Thu, April 12, 2012 11:55 am
To: "'RPPTL constructionlaw'" <constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org <mailto:constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org> >

For all the members who wish to get active in the ABA Forum on the Construction Industry, I would encourage you, if you are not already, to join the ABA.  Membership is currently free through August 31 along with membership in one Section or Forum.  You can do this by going to this site: http://joinaba.org/200916738 <http://joinaba.org/200916738>  Or by calling 1-800-285-2221 and mention promotion code RMM11MRRC.  Once you join the Section or Forum, you will have the opportunity to join a Division or Committee.

Michael T. Kamprath

Board Certified in Construction Law

Thresher & Thresher, P.A.

400 North Tampa Street,

Suite 1320

Tampa, Florida 33602

Phone: 813 229 7744

Facsimile: 813 228 0367

From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org>  [mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> ] On Behalf Of Charles Kramer
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 10:43 AM
To: 'RPPTL constructionlaw'
Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] ABA - Construction Law Forum

Division 5. Contract Negotiations, Performance and Admin.

Highest regards, 

CONFIDENTIALITY: This electronic message transmission contains information from the law firm Rogers, Morris & Ziegler LLP that is considered confidential or privileged.  The information is intended solely for the recipient and use by any other party is not authorized.  If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify me immediately by telephone (954-462-1431).

From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org>  [mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> ] On Behalf Of fred.dudley@hklaw.com <mailto:fred.dudley@hklaw.com> 
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 8:45 AM
To: constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org <mailto:constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org> 
Subject: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] ABA - Construction Law Forum

As I requested during yesterday meeting, attached from Cary Wright is a list of the 12 divisions of the Forum, which also reflects the members of each division's Steering Committee. Can you find the one Arnie serves on?       

It's amazing the number of Florida attorneys (and our CLC members) who are active in this Forum, but with George Myer as chair, we should get MORE active.

How about picking one you like and letting us know??

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Replies Filtered: Any incoming reply to this e-mail communication or other e-mail communication to us will be electronically filtered for "spam" and/or "viruses." That filtering process may result in such reply or other e-mail communications to us being quarantined (i.e., potentially not received at our site at all) and/or delayed in reaching us. For that reason, we cannot guarantee that we will receive your reply or other e-mail communications to us and/or that we will receive the same in a timely manner. Accordingly, you should consider sending communications to us which are particularly important or time-sensitive by means other than e-mail.

Notice Under U.S. Treasury Department Circular 230: To the extent that this e-mail communication and the attachment(s) hereto, if any, may contain written advice concerning or relating to a Federal (U.S.) tax issue, United States Treasury Department Regulations (Circular 230) require that we (and we do hereby) advise and disclose to you that, unless we expressly state otherwise in writing, such tax advice is not written or intended to be used, and cannot be used by you (the addressee), or other person(s), for purposes of (1) avoiding penalties imposed under the United States Internal Revenue Code or (2) promoting, marketing or recommending to any other person(s) the (or any of the) transaction(s) or matter(s) addressed, discussed or referenced herein. Each taxpayer should seek advice from an independent tax advisor with respect to any Federal tax issue(s), transaction(s) or matter(s) addressed, discussed or referenced herein based upon his, her or its particular circumstances. [v4.30]

Unclean hands are an affirmative defense, which would hinge on whether the labor in question required a permit, not necessarily a complete bar to recover depending on the circumstance. Additionally, would materialmen and other subs unaware of the permitting issues have a claim under those facts? David C. Agee, Esquire REID & AGEE, PLLC 3633 26th Street West Bradenton, FL 34205 Tel 941.756.8791 Fax 941.755.7311 *************Ask us about Real Estate and Estate Planning************************ The information transmitted in this email, including any attachments, is from Reid & Agee, PLLC and is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521. This electronic information is intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is strictly prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender via telephone at (941) 756-8791 or reply email and delete the email and any attachments from any computer. Thank You. IRS Circular 230 Disclosure: To the extent that this message or any attachment concerns tax matters, it is not intended to be used as or intended to constitute a "reliance opinion" under applicable Treasury Regulations, and accordingly this message or any attachment is not intended or written to be used, and may not be used or relied upon, for the purpose of (i) avoiding tax-related penalties that may be imposed by the Internal Revenue Service, or (ii) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any tax-related matters addressed herein. Please be assured that this policy does not reflect any decrease in the quality of services or the amount of thought that we put in our correspondence. From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Charles B. Hernicz, Esq Sent: Friday, April 13, 2012 3:45 PM To: 'RPPTL constructionlaw' Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] [RPPTL- QUESTION:no building permit....[Scanned] There is no basis for an equitable lien when the lienor comes to bar with unclean hands. Conspiring to violate law and failing to comply with the requirements of law (permitting) would bar a claim of equitable lien. Chuck Charles B. Hernicz, Esq. Board Certified in Construction Law by The Florida Bar Hernicz Legal Services, P.L. 15854 Bent Creek Road Wellington, FL 33414 Telephone: (561) 753-7511 Facsimile: (561) 753-7082 Chernicz@HerniczLegal.com From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of David C. Agee Sent: Friday, April 13, 2012 2:51 PM To: RPPTL constructionlaw Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] [RPPTL - QUESTION:no building permit....[Scanned] I think it is a tough road to follow, but wouldn't there still be an equitable lien for services rendered, the waters could get muddied pretty fast as I'd bet as a practical matter not all the work required a permit. David C. Agee, Esquire REID & AGEE, PLLC 3633 26th Street West Bradenton, FL 34205 Tel 941.756.8791 Fax 941.755.7311 *************Ask us about Real Estate and Estate Planning************************ The information transmitted in this email, including any attachments, is from Reid & Agee, PLLC and is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521. This electronic information is intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is strictly prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender via telephone at (941) 756-8791 or reply email and delete the email and any attachments from any computer. Thank You. IRS Circular 230 Disclosure: To the extent that this message or any attachment concerns tax matters, it is not intended to be used as or intended to constitute a "reliance opinion" under applicable Treasury Regulations, and accordingly this message or any attachment is not intended or written to be used, and may not be used or relied upon, for the purpose of (i) avoiding tax-related penalties that may be imposed by the Internal Revenue Service, or (ii) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any tax-related matters addressed herein. Please be assured that this policy does not reflect any decrease in the quality of services or the amount of thought that we put in our correspondence. From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Ed Kinberg Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 2:58 PM To: RPPTL constructionlaw Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] [RPPTL - QUESTION:no building permit....[Scanned] I agree with your conclusion about Braverman. I do think trying to enforce a lien under these facts is going to create a substantial problem and the vast majority of courts would find the agreement was intended to violate the law (if a permit was required) and will find that the Court's cannot be used to enforce an agreement that is illegal. ed Ed Kinberg Fellow, National Contract Management Association Board Certified, Construction Law Attorney Government Contract Law, Construction Law, and Business Law Attorneys At Law 1290 W. Eau Gallie Boulevard Melbourne, FL 32935 Tel. (321) 259-1910 Fax (321) 259-1996 www.kblegal.com <http://www.kblegal.com> This message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain information that is PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by telephone, and return the original to us by mail without making a copy. Thank you. Replies Filtered: Any incoming reply to this e-mail communication or other e-mail communication to us will be electronically filtered for "spam" and/or "viruses." That filtering process may result in such reply or other e-mail communications to us being quarantined (i.e., potentially not received at our site at all) and/or delayed in reaching us. For that reason, we cannot guarantee that we will receive your reply or other e-mail communications to us and/or that we will receive the same in a timely manner. Accordingly, you should consider sending communications to us which are particularly important or time-sensitive by means other than e-mail. From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Gibbons, Michael Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 2:32 PM To: 'RPPTL constructionlaw' Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] [RPPTL - QUESTION:no building permit.... Thanks Larry. I was not aware of the Braverman decision. However, I don't think it applies on these facts because the homeowner apparently contracted with the GC not to obtain a permit. In Braverman, the opposite occurred: owner's contract with GC expressly required GC to get the permit.Court relied on the express breach of contract in failing to obtain permit to hold that contractor had not performed and therefore had not earned the monies claimed in the lien. The Braverman decision was grounded on an express contractual undertaking not apparently present in the facts presented. Michael R. Gibbons (Bio <http://lowndes-law.com/our-people/michael-r-gibbons> ) Shareholder Lowndes, Drosdick, Doster, Kantor & Reed, P.A. 450 South Orange Avenue, 8th Floor Orlando, FL 32801 Phone: 407-418-6378 Fax: 407-843-4444 email: michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.com <mailto:michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.com> website: http://www.lowndes-law.com <http://www.lowndes-law.com/> ________________________________ From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Larry Leiby Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 1:58 PM To: RPPTL constructionlaw Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] [RPPTL - QUESTION: no building permit.... See Braverman v. Van Bower, Inc., 558 So.2d 381 (Fla. 3rd DCA 1991). Larry R. Leiby, Esq. Malka & Kravitz, P.A. 1300 Sawgrass Corp. Pkwy., Suite 100 Ft. Lauderdale, FL 33323 Phone: 954-514-0984 Fax: 954-514-0985 e-mail: leiby@mkpalaw.com Board Certified in Construction Law Fla. Supreme Court Certified Circuit Court Civil Mediator Member, Leiby Alexander Brandt ADR Group, LLC Member, JAMS Global Engineering and Construction Panel Fellow, College of Commercial Arbitrators From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of mromm@rommlaw.com Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 1:40 PM To: RPPTL constructionlaw Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] [RPPTL - QUESTION: no building permit.... Does anybody know the answer to this question: If general contractor fails to obtain a building permit (at owner's request because it was a small project at a home and the homeowner did not want to wait for or pay for the permit) and owner does not pay, can GC file a lien and foreclose? I read the following and I am still confused: § 553.79. Permits; applications; issuance; inspections [Effective until July 1, 2012] (1) After the effective date of the Florida Building Code adopted as herein provided, it shall be unlawful for any person, firm, corporation, or governmental entity to construct, erect, alter, modify, repair, or demolish any building within this state without first obtaining a permit therefor from the appropriate enforcing agency or from such persons as may, by appropriate resolution or regulation of the authorized state or local enforcing agency, be delegated authority to issue such permits, upon the payment of such reasonable fees adopted by the enforcing agency. The enforcing agency is empowered to revoke any such permit upon a determination by the agency that the construction, erection, alteration, modification, repair, or demolition of the building for which the permit was issued is in violation of, or not in conformity with, the provisions of the Florida Building Code. Installation, replacement, removal, or metering of any load management control device is exempt from and shall not be subject to the permit process and fees otherwise required by this section. § 553.84. Statutory civil action Notwithstanding any other remedies available, any person or party, in an individual capacity or on behalf of a class of persons or parties, damaged as a result of a violation of this part or the Florida Building Code, has a cause of action in any court of competent jurisdiction against the person or party who committed the violation; however, if the person or party obtains the required building permits and any local government or public agency with authority to enforce the Florida Building Code approves the plans, if the construction project passes all required inspections under the code, and if there is no personal injury or damage to property other than the property that is the subject of the permits, plans, and inspections, this section does not apply unless the person or party knew or should have known that the violation existed. and Comptech v. Milam Commerce: 711 So.2d 1255 (Fla. 3rd DCA, 1998) which says no statutory cause of action for violating 553.79 under 553.84 because it is barred by economic loss if construction done under a contract.... Help? Michael Romm Michael R. Romm, P.A. 1213 S. 30th Avenue, Suite 2, Hollywood, FL 33020 Phone: (954) 557-8002 Fax: (954) 208-0022 mromm@rommlaw.com <mailto:mromm@rommlaw.com> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The information and all attachments contained in this electronic communication are legally privileged and confidential information, subject to the attorney-client privilege and intended only for the use of intended recipients. If the reader of this message is not an intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately of the error by return email and please permanently remove any copies of this message from your system and do not retain any copies, whether in electronic or physical form or otherwise. Unauthorized interception of this e-mail is a violation of federal criminal law. TAX ADVICE DISCLOSURE: Pursuant to the requirements of Internal Revenue Service Circular 230, we advise you that any federal tax advice contained in this communication (including any attachments) is not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of: (1) avoiding penalties that maybe imposed under the Internal Revenue Code or (2) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any transaction or matter addressed in this communication. Disclaimer regarding Uniform Electronic Transactions Act ("UETA") (Florida Statutes Section 668.50): If this communication concerns negotiation of a contract or agreement, UETA does not apply to this communication; contract formation in this matter shall occur only with manually-affixed original signatures on original documents. Law Offices of Michael R. Romm, P.A. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] ABA - Construction Law Forum From: "Michael Kamprath" <Michael.Kamprath@thresherpa.com <mailto:Michael.Kamprath@thresherpa.com> > Date: Thu, April 12, 2012 11:55 am To: "'RPPTL constructionlaw'" <constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org <mailto:constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org> > For all the members who wish to get active in the ABA Forum on the Construction Industry, I would encourage you, if you are not already, to join the ABA. Membership is currently free through August 31 along with membership in one Section or Forum. You can do this by going to this site: http://joinaba.org/200916738 <http://joinaba.org/200916738> Or by calling 1-800-285-2221 and mention promotion code RMM11MRRC. Once you join the Section or Forum, you will have the opportunity to join a Division or Committee. Michael T. Kamprath Board Certified in Construction Law Thresher & Thresher, P.A. 400 North Tampa Street, Suite 1320 Tampa, Florida 33602 Phone: 813 229 7744 Facsimile: 813 228 0367 From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> [mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> ] On Behalf Of Charles Kramer Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 10:43 AM To: 'RPPTL constructionlaw' Subject: Re: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] ABA - Construction Law Forum Division 5. Contract Negotiations, Performance and Admin. Highest regards, CONFIDENTIALITY: This electronic message transmission contains information from the law firm Rogers, Morris & Ziegler LLP that is considered confidential or privileged. The information is intended solely for the recipient and use by any other party is not authorized. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify me immediately by telephone (954-462-1431). From: constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> [mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <mailto:constructionlaw-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> ] On Behalf Of fred.dudley@hklaw.com <mailto:fred.dudley@hklaw.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 8:45 AM To: constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org <mailto:constructionlaw@lists.flabarrpptl.org> Subject: [RPPTL-constructionlaw] ABA - Construction Law Forum As I requested during yesterday meeting, attached from Cary Wright is a list of the 12 divisions of the Forum, which also reflects the members of each division's Steering Committee. Can you find the one Arnie serves on? It's amazing the number of Florida attorneys (and our CLC members) who are active in this Forum, but with George Myer as chair, we should get MORE active. How about picking one you like and letting us know?? ________________________________ ****IRS CIRCULAR 230 DISCLOSURE: TO ENSURE COMPLIANCE WITH REQUIREMENTS IMPOSED BY THE IRS, WE INFORM YOU THAT ANY TAX ADVICE CONTAINED IN THIS COMMUNICATION (INCLUDING ANY ATTACHMENTS) IS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN BY HOLLAND & KNIGHT LLP TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, FOR THE PURPOSE OF (I) AVOIDING TAX-RELATED PENALTIES UNDER THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE, OR (II) PROMOTING, MARKETING, OR RECOMMENDING TO ANOTHER PARTY ANY TAX-RELATED MATTER HEREIN.**** ________________________________ NOTE: This e-mail is from a law firm, Holland & Knight LLP ("H&K"), and is intended solely for the use of the individual(s) to whom it is addressed. If you believe you received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately, delete the e-mail from your computer and do not copy or disclose it to anyone else. 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