Fines and Fees
There’s a big move nationwide to put all kinds of fines and fees in a residential lease.
Don’t pick up your dog’s poop, a fine. Miss an appointment with a repair person, a fee. Tamper with the smoke detectors, a fine. Leave your garbage cans out, a fine. HOA writes a letter to the owner, a fine. Parking violation, a fine. Bring a pet on the property, a fine. We have to serve you a Three Day, a fee.
What do you all feel about the legality of fees and fines?
Florida law does not really address them and rarely have I seen them in residential leases except for late fees and bad check fees.
There are a few states that specifically disallow fees and fines. The whole property management industry seems to be pushing the envelope and clients ask me WHY something is not legal and I’m basically at a loss.
How would you argue for or against a fee or fine in court? I can’t stand them but the clients really push it.
Harry
LAW OFFICES OF
HEIST, WEISSE & WOLK P.A.
PH: 1 800 253 8428
FAX: 1 800 367 9038
"Serving the Property Management Professional"
Website: http://www.evict.com/ www.evict.com
Email: mailto:harry@evict.com harry@evict.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Heist-Weisse-Wolk-PA/343965575625870
Visit us on Facebook
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I think part of the problem is that when the tenant does these things and
an Association or Vendor contacts the Landlord because of non-compliance
with rules there is a real cost to Landlords (many if not most of whom do
not have management companies on flat fees to handle this.) And, as noted
in prior response, sometimes there is a real cost such as a missed
appointment fee or an Association fine- but even if it is responding to the
Association letter that response is because the tenant breached the terms
of their lease so the question is who pays for that- the tenant that
breached or the Landlord who has to expend time (which is money) and
sometimes money to deal with it.
Most leases have the ability to fee shift if an attorney is involved in any
form of enforcement. If there is nothing that allows for a more minor
charge to be made, then the Landlord is going to end up sending each one of
these to legal and billing the tenants for the necessity of handling these
issues which are not "no foul" if they take up Landlord time.
A piece of me likes having the Tenant know that if they do something
specific that the wrong will be met with a fine or a fee and set out what
that is. It makes it less subjective and enforces the seriousness of
following rules. If it is always "no harm no foul" then the tenant can just
ignore the rules and inconvenience the landlord repeatedly. I do not see
the concept of specific fines or fees as impermissible or illegal so long
as they bear a reasonable and rational relationship to the costs incurred
from the breaches.
My client's will ALWAYS bill out of pocket things like Association fines
that were levied or missed appointment fees. Where it comes to the other,
there is usually a warning letter the first time with included language
that the next letter will come with the legal responsibility for the costs.
I may talk to them about a schedule of fines/fees to be applied.... hadn't
considered that before! Ultimately, the likelihood is that they will just
erode security deposits.
Deborah Marks, PLLC
18495 S. Dixie Highway
Ste 134
Miami, FL 33157
305-372-9400
deborahmarkslaw@gmail.com
deborah@deborahmarks.law
synergy928@aol.com
On Wed, Jan 27, 2021 at 6:20 PM RPPTL Real Estate Leasing Committee <
landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org> wrote:
There’s a big move nationwide to put all kinds of fines and fees in a
residential lease.
Don’t pick up your dog’s poop, a fine. Miss an appointment with a repair
person, a fee. Tamper with the smoke detectors, a fine. Leave your garbage
cans out, a fine. HOA writes a letter to the owner, a fine. Parking
violation, a fine. Bring a pet on the property, a fine. We have to serve
you a Three Day, a fee.
What do you all feel about the legality of fees and fines?
Florida law does not really address them and rarely have I seen them in
residential leases except for late fees and bad check fees.
There are a few states that specifically disallow fees and fines. The
whole property management industry seems to be pushing the envelope and
clients ask me WHY something is not legal and I’m basically at a loss.
How would you argue for or against a fee or fine in court? I can’t stand
them but the clients really push it.
Harry
*LAW OFFICES OF HEIST, WEISSE & WOLK P.A.PH: 1 800 253 8428FAX: 1 800 367
9038"Serving the Property Management Professional"Website: *
www.evict.com http://www.evict.com/
- Email: *harry@evict.com harry@evict.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Heist-Weisse-Wolk-PA/343965575625870
Visit us on Facebook
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Dear Deborah,
Racking up fines or fees and then dropping them all into a charge from the Security Deposit is problematic as well.
Often I see property managers deduct hundreds of dollars in accumulated late fees from the deposit when a lease is over. Not only does this seem wrong but then the overage if any gets sent off to a collection agency where the tenant’s credit is damaged.
My feeling on noncompliances is that they should be dealt with using the Seven Day Notice to Cure as has been the case for decades.
For example, I see fees and fines if there is an unauthorized occupant found on the premises or a dog found on the premises even for a few days. How do they justify picking an amount of say $500 for this? The law allows for the Seven Day Notice to Cure. Something seems off with a “fee” or a “fine” in addition to the fact that it is a lease noncompliance. Especially if that fee or fine will be carried through to the end of the lease and sucked out of the Security Deposit. If acceptance of rent after a noncompliance can create a potential waiver argument, is not the fine or fee possibly waived as well?
Harry
UPDATED RESOURCES ON CDC ORDER - MARCH 31 EXTENSION https://evict.com/cdcresourcesmarch
LAW OFFICES OF
HEIST, WEISSE & WOLK P.A.
PH: 1 800 253 8428
FAX: 1 800 367 9038
"Serving the Property Management Professional"
Website: http://www.evict.com/ www.evict.com
Email: mailto:harry@evict.com harry@evict.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Heist-Weisse-Wolk-PA/343965575625870
Visit us on Facebook
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From: landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org On Behalf Of RPPTL Real Estate Leasing Committee
Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2021 9:24 AM
To: RPPTL Landlord Tenant Committee landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [RPPTL Leasing Committee] Fines and Fees
I think part of the problem is that when the tenant does these things and an Association or Vendor contacts the Landlord because of non-compliance with rules there is a real cost to Landlords (many if not most of whom do not have management companies on flat fees to handle this.) And, as noted in prior response, sometimes there is a real cost such as a missed appointment fee or an Association fine- but even if it is responding to the Association letter that response is because the tenant breached the terms of their lease so the question is who pays for that- the tenant that breached or the Landlord who has to expend time (which is money) and sometimes money to deal with it.
Most leases have the ability to fee shift if an attorney is involved in any form of enforcement. If there is nothing that allows for a more minor charge to be made, then the Landlord is going to end up sending each one of these to legal and billing the tenants for the necessity of handling these issues which are not "no foul" if they take up Landlord time.
A piece of me likes having the Tenant know that if they do something specific that the wrong will be met with a fine or a fee and set out what that is. It makes it less subjective and enforces the seriousness of following rules. If it is always "no harm no foul" then the tenant can just ignore the rules and inconvenience the landlord repeatedly. I do not see the concept of specific fines or fees as impermissible or illegal so long as they bear a reasonable and rational relationship to the costs incurred from the breaches.
My client's will ALWAYS bill out of pocket things like Association fines that were levied or missed appointment fees. Where it comes to the other, there is usually a warning letter the first time with included language that the next letter will come with the legal responsibility for the costs. I may talk to them about a schedule of fines/fees to be applied.... hadn't considered that before! Ultimately, the likelihood is that they will just erode security deposits.
Deborah Marks, PLLC
18495 S. Dixie Highway
Ste 134
Miami, FL 33157
305-372-9400
deborahmarkslaw@gmail.com mailto:deborahmarkslaw@gmail.com
deborah@deborahmarks.law mailto:deborah@deborahmarks.law
synergy928@aol.com mailto:synergy928@aol.com
On Wed, Jan 27, 2021 at 6:20 PM RPPTL Real Estate Leasing Committee <landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org > wrote:
There’s a big move nationwide to put all kinds of fines and fees in a residential lease.
Don’t pick up your dog’s poop, a fine. Miss an appointment with a repair person, a fee. Tamper with the smoke detectors, a fine. Leave your garbage cans out, a fine. HOA writes a letter to the owner, a fine. Parking violation, a fine. Bring a pet on the property, a fine. We have to serve you a Three Day, a fee.
What do you all feel about the legality of fees and fines?
Florida law does not really address them and rarely have I seen them in residential leases except for late fees and bad check fees.
There are a few states that specifically disallow fees and fines. The whole property management industry seems to be pushing the envelope and clients ask me WHY something is not legal and I’m basically at a loss.
How would you argue for or against a fee or fine in court? I can’t stand them but the clients really push it.
Harry
LAW OFFICES OF
HEIST, WEISSE & WOLK P.A.
PH: 1 800 253 8428
FAX: 1 800 367 9038
"Serving the Property Management Professional"
Website: http://www.evict.com/ www.evict.com
Email: mailto:harry@evict.com harry@evict.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Heist-Weisse-Wolk-PA/343965575625870
Visit us on Facebook
THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS CONFIDENTIAL, ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGED, AND INTENDED FOR THE PERSONS NAMED ABOVE ONLY. ALL OTHER USE, COPYING, OR DISTRIBUTION IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED.
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