Empathy List Archives

RR

RPPTL Real Estate Leasing Committee

Mon, Jul 11, 2022 9:09 PM

I've always relied on the "termination" part of the language - which doesn't occur upon mere abandonment but, instead, upon the later of the end of the term or the earlier termination at the Landlord's election or upon agreement for early termination with the tenant.

To hold otherwise would require a landlord to send back the security deposit before the obligation to maintain has ended, before all the damages are possible to determine (rent, disrepair from being empty, vandalism, etc...).

Just my thoughts.

I will give you that the portion of the "disclosure" says "when you move out" instead of "when the lease terminates" - which is one of the reasons I think the statute needs work. (Along with Section 83.59 indicating a landlord can use it when termination occurs and not when only possession is being retaken per 83.595(2) and where 83.56(3) kind-of indicates that the landlord has the option to "terminate the rental agreement" but not indicating how the landlord would be able to elect to retake possession by Court process having terminated possession but not the lease as a whole).

I could be completely off-base.

Jeremy T. Cranford
Attorney, LL.M. (Real Estate Law)
Board Certified Real Estate Law Specialist
Cranford Law, PL
4458 Legendary Dr., Suite 350, Destin, FL 32541 (Appt. Only)https://goo.gl/maps/8RGDsAeZaG52Vfdf8
PO Box 5619, Destin, FL 32540
(850) 502-3353tel:8505023353
jtcranford@cranford.law mailto:jtcranford@cranford.law
www.cranford.law http://www.cranford.law/
Licensed in Florida & Missouri

This email message is being sent from an Attorney with the law firm of Cranford Law, PL (the "Firm") who is likely to be acting on behalf of a client thereof. First and because this email is likely to contain confidential and/or privileged information, please protect the information contained herein from being accessed or accessible by any other person. Second, if you have any reason to believe you should not have received this email message, please inform the Firm immediately and delete/destroy all copies hereof. Third and if you are not presently a client of the Firm, unless this email contains a specific statement that you have become a client of the Firm, (1) do not construe anything within this email message to establish an attorney-client relationship with you and (2) do not disclose any information to the Firm that you would expect the Firm to hold in confidence.

From: landtencl-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org landtencl-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org On Behalf Of Real Estate Leasing Committee
Sent: Monday, July 11, 2022 3:39 PM
To: landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org; landtencl@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: [RPPTL LandTenCL] Common scenario

I may have posted this a long time ago but here it is again.

Tenant completely vacates 3 months prior to lease end and has prepaid rent OR continues to pay rent. Landlord is trying to get a replacement tenant and departed tenant has no problem with this.

When does the 30 day clock begin for the Notice of Intention to Impose Claim on Deposit?

Portions of statute are below.

Harry

83.49 ..............

..........THE LANDLORD MUST MAIL YOU NOTICE, WITHIN 30 DAYS AFTER YOU MOVE OUT, OF THE LANDLORD'S INTENT TO IMPOSE A CLAIM AGAINST THE DEPOSIT.

THIS DISCLOSURE IS BASIC. PLEASE REFER TO PART II OF CHAPTER 83, FLORIDA STATUTES, TO DETERMINE YOUR LEGAL RIGHTS AND OBLIGATIONS............

(3) The landlord or the landlord's agent may disburse advance rents from the deposit account to the landlord's benefit when the advance rental period commences and without notice to the tenant. For all other deposits: (a) Upon the vacating of the premises for termination of the lease, if the landlord does not intend to impose a claim on the security deposit, the landlord shall have 15 days to return the security deposit together with interest if otherwise required, or the landlord shall have 30 days to give the tenant written notice by certified mail to the tenant's last known mailing address of his or her intention to impose a claim on the deposit and the reason for imposing the claim..................

If the landlord fails to give the required notice within the 30-day period, he or she forfeits the right to impose a claim upon the security deposit and may not seek a setoff against the deposit but may file an action for damages after return of the deposit.

LAW OFFICES OF
HEIST, WEISSE & WOLK P.A.
PH: 1 800 253 8428
FAX: 1 800 367 9038
"Serving the Property Management Professional"
Website: www.evict.com http://www.evict.com/
Email: harry@evict.com mailto:harry@evict.com

I've always relied on the "termination" part of the language - which doesn't occur upon mere abandonment but, instead, upon the later of the end of the term or the earlier termination at the Landlord's election or upon agreement for early termination with the tenant. To hold otherwise would require a landlord to send back the security deposit before the obligation to maintain has ended, before all the damages are possible to determine (rent, disrepair from being empty, vandalism, etc...). Just my thoughts. I will give you that the portion of the "disclosure" says "when you move out" instead of "when the lease terminates" - which is one of the reasons I think the statute needs work. (Along with Section 83.59 indicating a landlord can use it when termination occurs and not when only possession is being retaken per 83.595(2) and where 83.56(3) kind-of indicates that the landlord has the option to "terminate the rental agreement" but not indicating how the landlord would be able to elect to retake possession by Court process having terminated possession but not the lease as a whole). I could be completely off-base. _____________________________________________ Jeremy T. Cranford Attorney, LL.M. (Real Estate Law) Board Certified Real Estate Law Specialist Cranford Law, PL 4458 Legendary Dr., Suite 350, Destin, FL 32541 (Appt. Only)<https://goo.gl/maps/8RGDsAeZaG52Vfdf8> PO Box 5619, Destin, FL 32540 (850) 502-3353<tel:8505023353> jtcranford@cranford.law<mailto:jtcranford@cranford.law> www.cranford.law<http://www.cranford.law/> Licensed in Florida & Missouri _____________________________________________ This email message is being sent from an Attorney with the law firm of Cranford Law, PL (the "Firm") who is likely to be acting on behalf of a client thereof. First and because this email is likely to contain confidential and/or privileged information, please protect the information contained herein from being accessed or accessible by any other person. Second, if you have any reason to believe you should not have received this email message, please inform the Firm immediately and delete/destroy all copies hereof. Third and if you are not presently a client of the Firm, unless this email contains a specific statement that you have become a client of the Firm, (1) do not construe anything within this email message to establish an attorney-client relationship with you and (2) do not disclose any information to the Firm that you would expect the Firm to hold in confidence. ____________________________________________ From: landtencl-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <landtencl-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of Real Estate Leasing Committee Sent: Monday, July 11, 2022 3:39 PM To: landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org; landtencl@lists.flabarrpptl.org Subject: [RPPTL LandTenCL] Common scenario I may have posted this a long time ago but here it is again. Tenant completely vacates 3 months prior to lease end and has prepaid rent OR continues to pay rent. Landlord is trying to get a replacement tenant and departed tenant has no problem with this. When does the 30 day clock begin for the Notice of Intention to Impose Claim on Deposit? Portions of statute are below. Harry 83.49 .............. ..........THE LANDLORD MUST MAIL YOU NOTICE, WITHIN 30 DAYS AFTER YOU MOVE OUT, OF THE LANDLORD'S INTENT TO IMPOSE A CLAIM AGAINST THE DEPOSIT. THIS DISCLOSURE IS BASIC. PLEASE REFER TO PART II OF CHAPTER 83, FLORIDA STATUTES, TO DETERMINE YOUR LEGAL RIGHTS AND OBLIGATIONS............ (3) The landlord or the landlord's agent may disburse advance rents from the deposit account to the landlord's benefit when the advance rental period commences and without notice to the tenant. For all other deposits: (a) Upon the vacating of the premises for termination of the lease, if the landlord does not intend to impose a claim on the security deposit, the landlord shall have 15 days to return the security deposit together with interest if otherwise required, or the landlord shall have 30 days to give the tenant written notice by certified mail to the tenant's last known mailing address of his or her intention to impose a claim on the deposit and the reason for imposing the claim.................. If the landlord fails to give the required notice within the 30-day period, he or she forfeits the right to impose a claim upon the security deposit and may not seek a setoff against the deposit but may file an action for damages after return of the deposit. LAW OFFICES OF HEIST, WEISSE & WOLK P.A. PH: 1 800 253 8428 FAX: 1 800 367 9038 "Serving the Property Management Professional" Website: www.evict.com<http://www.evict.com/> Email: harry@evict.com<mailto:harry@evict.com>

RR

RPPTL Real Estate Leasing Committee

Mon, Jul 11, 2022 10:30 PM

I look at this as a tenant protecting his credit record or unsure that where he has moved will work out. As long as the tenant pays rent or there is prepaid rent to use, the apartment isn't abandoned. For presumption of abandonment you need unpaid rent. I don't see an actual abandonment when rent is being paid. You gave no indication that there was a surrender and the tenant was paying off his post surrender balance. The tenant has the right to come back and re-occupy as long as he is honoring his lease obligation to pay rent.

When this happens to my client, I tell my client to contact the tenant and agree (in writing by email), that the tenant gives the landlord permission to change the locks, to turn the apartment and to re-let it and the tenant will continue to pay rent until re-let. On the day the re-let takes place the tenant and landlord agree that there is an early termination without penalties, liquidated damages or lack of notice charges. The tenant is only responsible for wear and tear up through the date of the landlord's turn of apartment (which is fair because the landlord now has control of the apartment). The landlord has any turn damage or cleaning sitting on hold until the re-let, which starts his 30 days running. The deposit and any unused rent for the month can be used against any claim items.

I take this approach because the landlord (in this market) wants to re-let at a much higher rent than the current tenant's rent and the current tenant likely just wants a good credit record at the apt.

Mike
Michael Geo. F. Davis
Attorney at Law
The MGFD Law Firm PA
Countryside Colonial Center
2753 SR 580, Suite 209, Clearwater, FL 33761-3351
P 727-726-1900/F 727-726-7440
mike@mgfdlaw.com
Primary Eservice: eservice@mgfdlaw.com
www.mgfdlaw.com http://www.mgfdlaw.com/

The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmissions, dissemination or other use of this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is unauthorized and prohibited. Any transmission of confidential and/or privileged material to persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) shall not be construed as a waiver of any privilege or confidence. If you receive this transmission in error, please contact the sender and delete the material. Thank you.

From: landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org On Behalf Of RPPTL Real Estate Leasing Committee
Sent: Monday, July 11, 2022 5:09 PM
To: landtencl@lists.flabarrpptl.org; landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [RPPTL Leasing Committee] Common scenario

I've always relied on the "termination" part of the language - which doesn't occur upon mere abandonment but, instead, upon the later of the end of the term or the earlier termination at the Landlord's election or upon agreement for early termination with the tenant.

To hold otherwise would require a landlord to send back the security deposit before the obligation to maintain has ended, before all the damages are possible to determine (rent, disrepair from being empty, vandalism, etc...).

Just my thoughts.

I will give you that the portion of the "disclosure" says "when you move out" instead of "when the lease terminates" - which is one of the reasons I think the statute needs work. (Along with Section 83.59 indicating a landlord can use it when termination occurs and not when only possession is being retaken per 83.595(2) and where 83.56(3) kind-of indicates that the landlord has the option to "terminate the rental agreement" but not indicating how the landlord would be able to elect to retake possession by Court process having terminated possession but not the lease as a whole).

I could be completely off-base.

Jeremy T. Cranford
Attorney, LL.M. (Real Estate Law)
Board Certified Real Estate Law Specialist
Cranford Law, PL
4458 Legendary Dr., Suite 350, Destin, FL 32541 (Appt. Only)https://goo.gl/maps/8RGDsAeZaG52Vfdf8
PO Box 5619, Destin, FL 32540
(850) 502-3353tel:8505023353
jtcranford@cranford.law mailto:jtcranford@cranford.law
www.cranford.law http://www.cranford.law/
Licensed in Florida & Missouri

This email message is being sent from an Attorney with the law firm of Cranford Law, PL (the "Firm") who is likely to be acting on behalf of a client thereof. First and because this email is likely to contain confidential and/or privileged information, please protect the information contained herein from being accessed or accessible by any other person. Second, if you have any reason to believe you should not have received this email message, please inform the Firm immediately and delete/destroy all copies hereof. Third and if you are not presently a client of the Firm, unless this email contains a specific statement that you have become a client of the Firm, (1) do not construe anything within this email message to establish an attorney-client relationship with you and (2) do not disclose any information to the Firm that you would expect the Firm to hold in confidence.

From: landtencl-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:landtencl-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <landtencl-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:landtencl-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of Real Estate Leasing Committee
Sent: Monday, July 11, 2022 3:39 PM
To: landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org; landtencl@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:landtencl@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: [RPPTL LandTenCL] Common scenario

I may have posted this a long time ago but here it is again.

Tenant completely vacates 3 months prior to lease end and has prepaid rent OR continues to pay rent. Landlord is trying to get a replacement tenant and departed tenant has no problem with this.

When does the 30 day clock begin for the Notice of Intention to Impose Claim on Deposit?

Portions of statute are below.

Harry

83.49 ..............

..........THE LANDLORD MUST MAIL YOU NOTICE, WITHIN 30 DAYS AFTER YOU MOVE OUT, OF THE LANDLORD'S INTENT TO IMPOSE A CLAIM AGAINST THE DEPOSIT.

THIS DISCLOSURE IS BASIC. PLEASE REFER TO PART II OF CHAPTER 83, FLORIDA STATUTES, TO DETERMINE YOUR LEGAL RIGHTS AND OBLIGATIONS............

(3) The landlord or the landlord's agent may disburse advance rents from the deposit account to the landlord's benefit when the advance rental period commences and without notice to the tenant. For all other deposits: (a) Upon the vacating of the premises for termination of the lease, if the landlord does not intend to impose a claim on the security deposit, the landlord shall have 15 days to return the security deposit together with interest if otherwise required, or the landlord shall have 30 days to give the tenant written notice by certified mail to the tenant's last known mailing address of his or her intention to impose a claim on the deposit and the reason for imposing the claim..................

If the landlord fails to give the required notice within the 30-day period, he or she forfeits the right to impose a claim upon the security deposit and may not seek a setoff against the deposit but may file an action for damages after return of the deposit.

LAW OFFICES OF
HEIST, WEISSE & WOLK P.A.
PH: 1 800 253 8428
FAX: 1 800 367 9038
"Serving the Property Management Professional"
Website: www.evict.com http://www.evict.com/
Email: harry@evict.com mailto:harry@evict.com

I look at this as a tenant protecting his credit record or unsure that where he has moved will work out. As long as the tenant pays rent or there is prepaid rent to use, the apartment isn't abandoned. For presumption of abandonment you need unpaid rent. I don't see an actual abandonment when rent is being paid. You gave no indication that there was a surrender and the tenant was paying off his post surrender balance. The tenant has the right to come back and re-occupy as long as he is honoring his lease obligation to pay rent. When this happens to my client, I tell my client to contact the tenant and agree (in writing by email), that the tenant gives the landlord permission to change the locks, to turn the apartment and to re-let it and the tenant will continue to pay rent until re-let. On the day the re-let takes place the tenant and landlord agree that there is an early termination without penalties, liquidated damages or lack of notice charges. The tenant is only responsible for wear and tear up through the date of the landlord's turn of apartment (which is fair because the landlord now has control of the apartment). The landlord has any turn damage or cleaning sitting on hold until the re-let, which starts his 30 days running. The deposit and any unused rent for the month can be used against any claim items. I take this approach because the landlord (in this market) wants to re-let at a much higher rent than the current tenant's rent and the current tenant likely just wants a good credit record at the apt. Mike Michael Geo. F. Davis Attorney at Law The MGFD Law Firm PA Countryside Colonial Center 2753 SR 580, Suite 209, Clearwater, FL 33761-3351 P 727-726-1900/F 727-726-7440 mike@mgfdlaw.com Primary Eservice: eservice@mgfdlaw.com www.mgfdlaw.com<http://www.mgfdlaw.com/> The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmissions, dissemination or other use of this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is unauthorized and prohibited. Any transmission of confidential and/or privileged material to persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) shall not be construed as a waiver of any privilege or confidence. If you receive this transmission in error, please contact the sender and delete the material. Thank you. From: landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of RPPTL Real Estate Leasing Committee Sent: Monday, July 11, 2022 5:09 PM To: landtencl@lists.flabarrpptl.org; landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org Subject: Re: [RPPTL Leasing Committee] Common scenario I've always relied on the "termination" part of the language - which doesn't occur upon mere abandonment but, instead, upon the later of the end of the term or the earlier termination at the Landlord's election or upon agreement for early termination with the tenant. To hold otherwise would require a landlord to send back the security deposit before the obligation to maintain has ended, before all the damages are possible to determine (rent, disrepair from being empty, vandalism, etc...). Just my thoughts. I will give you that the portion of the "disclosure" says "when you move out" instead of "when the lease terminates" - which is one of the reasons I think the statute needs work. (Along with Section 83.59 indicating a landlord can use it when termination occurs and not when only possession is being retaken per 83.595(2) and where 83.56(3) kind-of indicates that the landlord has the option to "terminate the rental agreement" but not indicating how the landlord would be able to elect to retake possession by Court process having terminated possession but not the lease as a whole). I could be completely off-base. _____________________________________________ Jeremy T. Cranford Attorney, LL.M. (Real Estate Law) Board Certified Real Estate Law Specialist Cranford Law, PL 4458 Legendary Dr., Suite 350, Destin, FL 32541 (Appt. Only)<https://goo.gl/maps/8RGDsAeZaG52Vfdf8> PO Box 5619, Destin, FL 32540 (850) 502-3353<tel:8505023353> jtcranford@cranford.law<mailto:jtcranford@cranford.law> www.cranford.law<http://www.cranford.law/> Licensed in Florida & Missouri _____________________________________________ This email message is being sent from an Attorney with the law firm of Cranford Law, PL (the "Firm") who is likely to be acting on behalf of a client thereof. First and because this email is likely to contain confidential and/or privileged information, please protect the information contained herein from being accessed or accessible by any other person. Second, if you have any reason to believe you should not have received this email message, please inform the Firm immediately and delete/destroy all copies hereof. Third and if you are not presently a client of the Firm, unless this email contains a specific statement that you have become a client of the Firm, (1) do not construe anything within this email message to establish an attorney-client relationship with you and (2) do not disclose any information to the Firm that you would expect the Firm to hold in confidence. ____________________________________________ From: landtencl-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:landtencl-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> <landtencl-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:landtencl-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org>> On Behalf Of Real Estate Leasing Committee Sent: Monday, July 11, 2022 3:39 PM To: landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org>; landtencl@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:landtencl@lists.flabarrpptl.org> Subject: [RPPTL LandTenCL] Common scenario I may have posted this a long time ago but here it is again. Tenant completely vacates 3 months prior to lease end and has prepaid rent OR continues to pay rent. Landlord is trying to get a replacement tenant and departed tenant has no problem with this. When does the 30 day clock begin for the Notice of Intention to Impose Claim on Deposit? Portions of statute are below. Harry 83.49 .............. ..........THE LANDLORD MUST MAIL YOU NOTICE, WITHIN 30 DAYS AFTER YOU MOVE OUT, OF THE LANDLORD'S INTENT TO IMPOSE A CLAIM AGAINST THE DEPOSIT. THIS DISCLOSURE IS BASIC. PLEASE REFER TO PART II OF CHAPTER 83, FLORIDA STATUTES, TO DETERMINE YOUR LEGAL RIGHTS AND OBLIGATIONS............ (3) The landlord or the landlord's agent may disburse advance rents from the deposit account to the landlord's benefit when the advance rental period commences and without notice to the tenant. For all other deposits: (a) Upon the vacating of the premises for termination of the lease, if the landlord does not intend to impose a claim on the security deposit, the landlord shall have 15 days to return the security deposit together with interest if otherwise required, or the landlord shall have 30 days to give the tenant written notice by certified mail to the tenant's last known mailing address of his or her intention to impose a claim on the deposit and the reason for imposing the claim.................. If the landlord fails to give the required notice within the 30-day period, he or she forfeits the right to impose a claim upon the security deposit and may not seek a setoff against the deposit but may file an action for damages after return of the deposit. LAW OFFICES OF HEIST, WEISSE & WOLK P.A. PH: 1 800 253 8428 FAX: 1 800 367 9038 "Serving the Property Management Professional" Website: www.evict.com<http://www.evict.com/> Email: harry@evict.com<mailto:harry@evict.com>

RR

RPPTL Real Estate Leasing Committee

Tue, Jul 12, 2022 2:55 PM

To clarify my question, it is when the tenant has given the landlord possession, and this is documented in writing.

Harry

INFO ON CARES COVERED PROPERTY: https://mailchi.mp/evict.com/carescfpb
LAW OFFICES OF
HEIST, WEISSE & WOLK P.A.
PH: 1 800 253 8428
FAX: 1 800 367 9038
"Serving the Property Management Professional"
Website: www.evict.com http://www.evict.com/
Email: harry@evict.com mailto:harry@evict.com

From: landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org On Behalf Of RPPTL Real Estate Leasing Committee
Sent: Monday, July 11, 2022 6:30 PM
To: landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org; landtencl@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [RPPTL Leasing Committee] Common scenario

I look at this as a tenant protecting his credit record or unsure that where he has moved will work out. As long as the tenant pays rent or there is prepaid rent to use, the apartment isn't abandoned. For presumption of abandonment you need unpaid rent. I don't see an actual abandonment when rent is being paid. You gave no indication that there was a surrender and the tenant was paying off his post surrender balance. The tenant has the right to come back and re-occupy as long as he is honoring his lease obligation to pay rent.

When this happens to my client, I tell my client to contact the tenant and agree (in writing by email), that the tenant gives the landlord permission to change the locks, to turn the apartment and to re-let it and the tenant will continue to pay rent until re-let. On the day the re-let takes place the tenant and landlord agree that there is an early termination without penalties, liquidated damages or lack of notice charges. The tenant is only responsible for wear and tear up through the date of the landlord's turn of apartment (which is fair because the landlord now has control of the apartment). The landlord has any turn damage or cleaning sitting on hold until the re-let, which starts his 30 days running. The deposit and any unused rent for the month can be used against any claim items.

I take this approach because the landlord (in this market) wants to re-let at a much higher rent than the current tenant's rent and the current tenant likely just wants a good credit record at the apt.

Mike
Michael Geo. F. Davis
Attorney at Law
The MGFD Law Firm PA
Countryside Colonial Center
2753 SR 580, Suite 209, Clearwater, FL 33761-3351
P 727-726-1900/F 727-726-7440
mike@mgfdlaw.com mailto:mike@mgfdlaw.com
Primary Eservice: eservice@mgfdlaw.com mailto:eservice@mgfdlaw.com
www.mgfdlaw.com http://www.mgfdlaw.com/

The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmissions, dissemination or other use of this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is unauthorized and prohibited. Any transmission of confidential and/or privileged material to persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) shall not be construed as a waiver of any privilege or confidence. If you receive this transmission in error, please contact the sender and delete the material. Thank you.

From: landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of RPPTL Real Estate Leasing Committee
Sent: Monday, July 11, 2022 5:09 PM
To: landtencl@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:landtencl@lists.flabarrpptl.org; landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [RPPTL Leasing Committee] Common scenario

I've always relied on the "termination" part of the language - which doesn't occur upon mere abandonment but, instead, upon the later of the end of the term or the earlier termination at the Landlord's election or upon agreement for early termination with the tenant.

To hold otherwise would require a landlord to send back the security deposit before the obligation to maintain has ended, before all the damages are possible to determine (rent, disrepair from being empty, vandalism, etc...).

Just my thoughts.

I will give you that the portion of the "disclosure" says "when you move out" instead of "when the lease terminates" - which is one of the reasons I think the statute needs work. (Along with Section 83.59 indicating a landlord can use it when termination occurs and not when only possession is being retaken per 83.595(2) and where 83.56(3) kind-of indicates that the landlord has the option to "terminate the rental agreement" but not indicating how the landlord would be able to elect to retake possession by Court process having terminated possession but not the lease as a whole).

I could be completely off-base.

Jeremy T. Cranford
Attorney, LL.M. (Real Estate Law)
Board Certified Real Estate Law Specialist
Cranford Law, PL
4458 Legendary Dr., Suite 350, Destin, FL 32541 (Appt. Only)https://goo.gl/maps/8RGDsAeZaG52Vfdf8
PO Box 5619, Destin, FL 32540
(850) 502-3353tel:8505023353
jtcranford@cranford.law mailto:jtcranford@cranford.law
www.cranford.law http://www.cranford.law/
Licensed in Florida & Missouri

This email message is being sent from an Attorney with the law firm of Cranford Law, PL (the "Firm") who is likely to be acting on behalf of a client thereof. First and because this email is likely to contain confidential and/or privileged information, please protect the information contained herein from being accessed or accessible by any other person. Second, if you have any reason to believe you should not have received this email message, please inform the Firm immediately and delete/destroy all copies hereof. Third and if you are not presently a client of the Firm, unless this email contains a specific statement that you have become a client of the Firm, (1) do not construe anything within this email message to establish an attorney-client relationship with you and (2) do not disclose any information to the Firm that you would expect the Firm to hold in confidence.

From: landtencl-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:landtencl-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <landtencl-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:landtencl-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of Real Estate Leasing Committee
Sent: Monday, July 11, 2022 3:39 PM
To: landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org; landtencl@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:landtencl@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: [RPPTL LandTenCL] Common scenario

I may have posted this a long time ago but here it is again.

Tenant completely vacates 3 months prior to lease end and has prepaid rent OR continues to pay rent. Landlord is trying to get a replacement tenant and departed tenant has no problem with this.

When does the 30 day clock begin for the Notice of Intention to Impose Claim on Deposit?

Portions of statute are below.

Harry

83.49 ..............

..........THE LANDLORD MUST MAIL YOU NOTICE, WITHIN 30 DAYS AFTER YOU MOVE OUT, OF THE LANDLORD'S INTENT TO IMPOSE A CLAIM AGAINST THE DEPOSIT.

THIS DISCLOSURE IS BASIC. PLEASE REFER TO PART II OF CHAPTER 83, FLORIDA STATUTES, TO DETERMINE YOUR LEGAL RIGHTS AND OBLIGATIONS............

(3) The landlord or the landlord's agent may disburse advance rents from the deposit account to the landlord's benefit when the advance rental period commences and without notice to the tenant. For all other deposits: (a) Upon the vacating of the premises for termination of the lease, if the landlord does not intend to impose a claim on the security deposit, the landlord shall have 15 days to return the security deposit together with interest if otherwise required, or the landlord shall have 30 days to give the tenant written notice by certified mail to the tenant's last known mailing address of his or her intention to impose a claim on the deposit and the reason for imposing the claim..................

If the landlord fails to give the required notice within the 30-day period, he or she forfeits the right to impose a claim upon the security deposit and may not seek a setoff against the deposit but may file an action for damages after return of the deposit.

LAW OFFICES OF
HEIST, WEISSE & WOLK P.A.
PH: 1 800 253 8428
FAX: 1 800 367 9038
"Serving the Property Management Professional"
Website: www.evict.com http://www.evict.com/
Email: harry@evict.com mailto:harry@evict.com

To clarify my question, it is when the tenant has given the landlord possession, and this is documented in writing. Harry INFO ON CARES COVERED PROPERTY: https://mailchi.mp/evict.com/carescfpb LAW OFFICES OF HEIST, WEISSE & WOLK P.A. PH: 1 800 253 8428 FAX: 1 800 367 9038 "Serving the Property Management Professional" Website: www.evict.com<http://www.evict.com/> Email: harry@evict.com<mailto:harry@evict.com> From: landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of RPPTL Real Estate Leasing Committee Sent: Monday, July 11, 2022 6:30 PM To: landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org; landtencl@lists.flabarrpptl.org Subject: Re: [RPPTL Leasing Committee] Common scenario I look at this as a tenant protecting his credit record or unsure that where he has moved will work out. As long as the tenant pays rent or there is prepaid rent to use, the apartment isn't abandoned. For presumption of abandonment you need unpaid rent. I don't see an actual abandonment when rent is being paid. You gave no indication that there was a surrender and the tenant was paying off his post surrender balance. The tenant has the right to come back and re-occupy as long as he is honoring his lease obligation to pay rent. When this happens to my client, I tell my client to contact the tenant and agree (in writing by email), that the tenant gives the landlord permission to change the locks, to turn the apartment and to re-let it and the tenant will continue to pay rent until re-let. On the day the re-let takes place the tenant and landlord agree that there is an early termination without penalties, liquidated damages or lack of notice charges. The tenant is only responsible for wear and tear up through the date of the landlord's turn of apartment (which is fair because the landlord now has control of the apartment). The landlord has any turn damage or cleaning sitting on hold until the re-let, which starts his 30 days running. The deposit and any unused rent for the month can be used against any claim items. I take this approach because the landlord (in this market) wants to re-let at a much higher rent than the current tenant's rent and the current tenant likely just wants a good credit record at the apt. Mike Michael Geo. F. Davis Attorney at Law The MGFD Law Firm PA Countryside Colonial Center 2753 SR 580, Suite 209, Clearwater, FL 33761-3351 P 727-726-1900/F 727-726-7440 mike@mgfdlaw.com<mailto:mike@mgfdlaw.com> Primary Eservice: eservice@mgfdlaw.com<mailto:eservice@mgfdlaw.com> www.mgfdlaw.com<http://www.mgfdlaw.com/> The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmissions, dissemination or other use of this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is unauthorized and prohibited. Any transmission of confidential and/or privileged material to persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) shall not be construed as a waiver of any privilege or confidence. If you receive this transmission in error, please contact the sender and delete the material. Thank you. From: landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> <landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org>> On Behalf Of RPPTL Real Estate Leasing Committee Sent: Monday, July 11, 2022 5:09 PM To: landtencl@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:landtencl@lists.flabarrpptl.org>; landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org> Subject: Re: [RPPTL Leasing Committee] Common scenario I've always relied on the "termination" part of the language - which doesn't occur upon mere abandonment but, instead, upon the later of the end of the term or the earlier termination at the Landlord's election or upon agreement for early termination with the tenant. To hold otherwise would require a landlord to send back the security deposit before the obligation to maintain has ended, before all the damages are possible to determine (rent, disrepair from being empty, vandalism, etc...). Just my thoughts. I will give you that the portion of the "disclosure" says "when you move out" instead of "when the lease terminates" - which is one of the reasons I think the statute needs work. (Along with Section 83.59 indicating a landlord can use it when termination occurs and not when only possession is being retaken per 83.595(2) and where 83.56(3) kind-of indicates that the landlord has the option to "terminate the rental agreement" but not indicating how the landlord would be able to elect to retake possession by Court process having terminated possession but not the lease as a whole). I could be completely off-base. _____________________________________________ Jeremy T. Cranford Attorney, LL.M. (Real Estate Law) Board Certified Real Estate Law Specialist Cranford Law, PL 4458 Legendary Dr., Suite 350, Destin, FL 32541 (Appt. Only)<https://goo.gl/maps/8RGDsAeZaG52Vfdf8> PO Box 5619, Destin, FL 32540 (850) 502-3353<tel:8505023353> jtcranford@cranford.law<mailto:jtcranford@cranford.law> www.cranford.law<http://www.cranford.law/> Licensed in Florida & Missouri _____________________________________________ This email message is being sent from an Attorney with the law firm of Cranford Law, PL (the "Firm") who is likely to be acting on behalf of a client thereof. First and because this email is likely to contain confidential and/or privileged information, please protect the information contained herein from being accessed or accessible by any other person. Second, if you have any reason to believe you should not have received this email message, please inform the Firm immediately and delete/destroy all copies hereof. Third and if you are not presently a client of the Firm, unless this email contains a specific statement that you have become a client of the Firm, (1) do not construe anything within this email message to establish an attorney-client relationship with you and (2) do not disclose any information to the Firm that you would expect the Firm to hold in confidence. ____________________________________________ From: landtencl-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:landtencl-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> <landtencl-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:landtencl-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org>> On Behalf Of Real Estate Leasing Committee Sent: Monday, July 11, 2022 3:39 PM To: landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org>; landtencl@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:landtencl@lists.flabarrpptl.org> Subject: [RPPTL LandTenCL] Common scenario I may have posted this a long time ago but here it is again. Tenant completely vacates 3 months prior to lease end and has prepaid rent OR continues to pay rent. Landlord is trying to get a replacement tenant and departed tenant has no problem with this. When does the 30 day clock begin for the Notice of Intention to Impose Claim on Deposit? Portions of statute are below. Harry 83.49 .............. ..........THE LANDLORD MUST MAIL YOU NOTICE, WITHIN 30 DAYS AFTER YOU MOVE OUT, OF THE LANDLORD'S INTENT TO IMPOSE A CLAIM AGAINST THE DEPOSIT. THIS DISCLOSURE IS BASIC. PLEASE REFER TO PART II OF CHAPTER 83, FLORIDA STATUTES, TO DETERMINE YOUR LEGAL RIGHTS AND OBLIGATIONS............ (3) The landlord or the landlord's agent may disburse advance rents from the deposit account to the landlord's benefit when the advance rental period commences and without notice to the tenant. For all other deposits: (a) Upon the vacating of the premises for termination of the lease, if the landlord does not intend to impose a claim on the security deposit, the landlord shall have 15 days to return the security deposit together with interest if otherwise required, or the landlord shall have 30 days to give the tenant written notice by certified mail to the tenant's last known mailing address of his or her intention to impose a claim on the deposit and the reason for imposing the claim.................. If the landlord fails to give the required notice within the 30-day period, he or she forfeits the right to impose a claim upon the security deposit and may not seek a setoff against the deposit but may file an action for damages after return of the deposit. LAW OFFICES OF HEIST, WEISSE & WOLK P.A. PH: 1 800 253 8428 FAX: 1 800 367 9038 "Serving the Property Management Professional" Website: www.evict.com<http://www.evict.com/> Email: harry@evict.com<mailto:harry@evict.com>

RR

RPPTL Real Estate Leasing Committee

Tue, Jul 12, 2022 9:27 PM

The statute is a mess.

The disclosure was added within the last 10 years. What happened was that a state representative owned a bunch of rental property and was having trouble with her tenants. Her husband, a Florida judge, wrote up the wording for a bill. The original version was far worse. It would have required the parties to file a lawsuit if there was a SD dispute. I was able to get the bill improved but they were dead set on getting it passed and it was passed with amendments.

I would really like to see the tenant advocate attorneys and landlord attorneys come together to clean up a few items that do not substantively impact the tenant's or landlord's rights. This would be easy to pass.

There are a few items that can easily be fixed.

Harry

INFO ON CARES COVERED PROPERTY: https://mailchi.mp/evict.com/carescfpb
LAW OFFICES OF
HEIST, WEISSE & WOLK P.A.
PH: 1 800 253 8428
FAX: 1 800 367 9038
"Serving the Property Management Professional"
Website: www.evict.com http://www.evict.com/
Email: harry@evict.com mailto:harry@evict.com

From: landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org On Behalf Of RPPTL Real Estate Leasing Committee
Sent: Monday, July 11, 2022 5:09 PM
To: landtencl@lists.flabarrpptl.org; landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [RPPTL Leasing Committee] Common scenario

I've always relied on the "termination" part of the language - which doesn't occur upon mere abandonment but, instead, upon the later of the end of the term or the earlier termination at the Landlord's election or upon agreement for early termination with the tenant.

To hold otherwise would require a landlord to send back the security deposit before the obligation to maintain has ended, before all the damages are possible to determine (rent, disrepair from being empty, vandalism, etc...).

Just my thoughts.

I will give you that the portion of the "disclosure" says "when you move out" instead of "when the lease terminates" - which is one of the reasons I think the statute needs work. (Along with Section 83.59 indicating a landlord can use it when termination occurs and not when only possession is being retaken per 83.595(2) and where 83.56(3) kind-of indicates that the landlord has the option to "terminate the rental agreement" but not indicating how the landlord would be able to elect to retake possession by Court process having terminated possession but not the lease as a whole).

I could be completely off-base.

Jeremy T. Cranford
Attorney, LL.M. (Real Estate Law)
Board Certified Real Estate Law Specialist
Cranford Law, PL
4458 Legendary Dr., Suite 350, Destin, FL 32541 (Appt. Only)https://goo.gl/maps/8RGDsAeZaG52Vfdf8
PO Box 5619, Destin, FL 32540
(850) 502-3353tel:8505023353
jtcranford@cranford.law mailto:jtcranford@cranford.law
www.cranford.law http://www.cranford.law/
Licensed in Florida & Missouri

This email message is being sent from an Attorney with the law firm of Cranford Law, PL (the "Firm") who is likely to be acting on behalf of a client thereof. First and because this email is likely to contain confidential and/or privileged information, please protect the information contained herein from being accessed or accessible by any other person. Second, if you have any reason to believe you should not have received this email message, please inform the Firm immediately and delete/destroy all copies hereof. Third and if you are not presently a client of the Firm, unless this email contains a specific statement that you have become a client of the Firm, (1) do not construe anything within this email message to establish an attorney-client relationship with you and (2) do not disclose any information to the Firm that you would expect the Firm to hold in confidence.

From: landtencl-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:landtencl-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <landtencl-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:landtencl-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of Real Estate Leasing Committee
Sent: Monday, July 11, 2022 3:39 PM
To: landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org; landtencl@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:landtencl@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: [RPPTL LandTenCL] Common scenario

I may have posted this a long time ago but here it is again.

Tenant completely vacates 3 months prior to lease end and has prepaid rent OR continues to pay rent. Landlord is trying to get a replacement tenant and departed tenant has no problem with this.

When does the 30 day clock begin for the Notice of Intention to Impose Claim on Deposit?

Portions of statute are below.

Harry

83.49 ..............

..........THE LANDLORD MUST MAIL YOU NOTICE, WITHIN 30 DAYS AFTER YOU MOVE OUT, OF THE LANDLORD'S INTENT TO IMPOSE A CLAIM AGAINST THE DEPOSIT.

THIS DISCLOSURE IS BASIC. PLEASE REFER TO PART II OF CHAPTER 83, FLORIDA STATUTES, TO DETERMINE YOUR LEGAL RIGHTS AND OBLIGATIONS............

(3) The landlord or the landlord's agent may disburse advance rents from the deposit account to the landlord's benefit when the advance rental period commences and without notice to the tenant. For all other deposits: (a) Upon the vacating of the premises for termination of the lease, if the landlord does not intend to impose a claim on the security deposit, the landlord shall have 15 days to return the security deposit together with interest if otherwise required, or the landlord shall have 30 days to give the tenant written notice by certified mail to the tenant's last known mailing address of his or her intention to impose a claim on the deposit and the reason for imposing the claim..................

If the landlord fails to give the required notice within the 30-day period, he or she forfeits the right to impose a claim upon the security deposit and may not seek a setoff against the deposit but may file an action for damages after return of the deposit.

LAW OFFICES OF
HEIST, WEISSE & WOLK P.A.
PH: 1 800 253 8428
FAX: 1 800 367 9038
"Serving the Property Management Professional"
Website: www.evict.com http://www.evict.com/
Email: harry@evict.com mailto:harry@evict.com

The statute is a mess. The disclosure was added within the last 10 years. What happened was that a state representative owned a bunch of rental property and was having trouble with her tenants. Her husband, a Florida judge, wrote up the wording for a bill. The original version was far worse. It would have required the parties to file a lawsuit if there was a SD dispute. I was able to get the bill improved but they were dead set on getting it passed and it was passed with amendments. I would really like to see the tenant advocate attorneys and landlord attorneys come together to clean up a few items that do not substantively impact the tenant's or landlord's rights. This would be easy to pass. There are a few items that can easily be fixed. Harry INFO ON CARES COVERED PROPERTY: https://mailchi.mp/evict.com/carescfpb LAW OFFICES OF HEIST, WEISSE & WOLK P.A. PH: 1 800 253 8428 FAX: 1 800 367 9038 "Serving the Property Management Professional" Website: www.evict.com<http://www.evict.com/> Email: harry@evict.com<mailto:harry@evict.com> From: landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <landten-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of RPPTL Real Estate Leasing Committee Sent: Monday, July 11, 2022 5:09 PM To: landtencl@lists.flabarrpptl.org; landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org Subject: Re: [RPPTL Leasing Committee] Common scenario I've always relied on the "termination" part of the language - which doesn't occur upon mere abandonment but, instead, upon the later of the end of the term or the earlier termination at the Landlord's election or upon agreement for early termination with the tenant. To hold otherwise would require a landlord to send back the security deposit before the obligation to maintain has ended, before all the damages are possible to determine (rent, disrepair from being empty, vandalism, etc...). Just my thoughts. I will give you that the portion of the "disclosure" says "when you move out" instead of "when the lease terminates" - which is one of the reasons I think the statute needs work. (Along with Section 83.59 indicating a landlord can use it when termination occurs and not when only possession is being retaken per 83.595(2) and where 83.56(3) kind-of indicates that the landlord has the option to "terminate the rental agreement" but not indicating how the landlord would be able to elect to retake possession by Court process having terminated possession but not the lease as a whole). I could be completely off-base. _____________________________________________ Jeremy T. Cranford Attorney, LL.M. (Real Estate Law) Board Certified Real Estate Law Specialist Cranford Law, PL 4458 Legendary Dr., Suite 350, Destin, FL 32541 (Appt. Only)<https://goo.gl/maps/8RGDsAeZaG52Vfdf8> PO Box 5619, Destin, FL 32540 (850) 502-3353<tel:8505023353> jtcranford@cranford.law<mailto:jtcranford@cranford.law> www.cranford.law<http://www.cranford.law/> Licensed in Florida & Missouri _____________________________________________ This email message is being sent from an Attorney with the law firm of Cranford Law, PL (the "Firm") who is likely to be acting on behalf of a client thereof. First and because this email is likely to contain confidential and/or privileged information, please protect the information contained herein from being accessed or accessible by any other person. Second, if you have any reason to believe you should not have received this email message, please inform the Firm immediately and delete/destroy all copies hereof. Third and if you are not presently a client of the Firm, unless this email contains a specific statement that you have become a client of the Firm, (1) do not construe anything within this email message to establish an attorney-client relationship with you and (2) do not disclose any information to the Firm that you would expect the Firm to hold in confidence. ____________________________________________ From: landtencl-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:landtencl-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> <landtencl-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:landtencl-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org>> On Behalf Of Real Estate Leasing Committee Sent: Monday, July 11, 2022 3:39 PM To: landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:landten@lists.flabarrpptl.org>; landtencl@lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:landtencl@lists.flabarrpptl.org> Subject: [RPPTL LandTenCL] Common scenario I may have posted this a long time ago but here it is again. Tenant completely vacates 3 months prior to lease end and has prepaid rent OR continues to pay rent. Landlord is trying to get a replacement tenant and departed tenant has no problem with this. When does the 30 day clock begin for the Notice of Intention to Impose Claim on Deposit? Portions of statute are below. Harry 83.49 .............. ..........THE LANDLORD MUST MAIL YOU NOTICE, WITHIN 30 DAYS AFTER YOU MOVE OUT, OF THE LANDLORD'S INTENT TO IMPOSE A CLAIM AGAINST THE DEPOSIT. THIS DISCLOSURE IS BASIC. PLEASE REFER TO PART II OF CHAPTER 83, FLORIDA STATUTES, TO DETERMINE YOUR LEGAL RIGHTS AND OBLIGATIONS............ (3) The landlord or the landlord's agent may disburse advance rents from the deposit account to the landlord's benefit when the advance rental period commences and without notice to the tenant. For all other deposits: (a) Upon the vacating of the premises for termination of the lease, if the landlord does not intend to impose a claim on the security deposit, the landlord shall have 15 days to return the security deposit together with interest if otherwise required, or the landlord shall have 30 days to give the tenant written notice by certified mail to the tenant's last known mailing address of his or her intention to impose a claim on the deposit and the reason for imposing the claim.................. If the landlord fails to give the required notice within the 30-day period, he or she forfeits the right to impose a claim upon the security deposit and may not seek a setoff against the deposit but may file an action for damages after return of the deposit. LAW OFFICES OF HEIST, WEISSE & WOLK P.A. PH: 1 800 253 8428 FAX: 1 800 367 9038 "Serving the Property Management Professional" Website: www.evict.com<http://www.evict.com/> Email: harry@evict.com<mailto:harry@evict.com>