Local Licensing
6G4-15.0024 states - Documentation of one or more of the following:
(1) 20% or more ownership of the business to be qualified;
(2) W2 employee
(3) Other evidence of the means and methods utilized by the applicant to ensure control over the construction work of the proposed entity.
It is hard to establish number 3 without having number 1 and/or 2. But I will concede that it may be possible, but is certainly not the norm .
[cid:image001.jpg@01CF3C7C.5A567320]
Christopher M. Cobb, Esq.
Board Certified in Construction Law
Jimerson & Cobb, P.A.
Business Litigation | Construction Law | Banking Law | Creditor’s Rights & AR Collection | Community Associations
Telephone: (904) 389-0050 | Facsimile: (904) 212-1269
ccobb@jimersoncobb.commailto:ccobb@jimersoncobb.com | JimersonCobb.comhttp://www.jimersoncobb.com/
Add to Contactshttp://www.jimersoncobb.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Christopher-M-Cobb.vcf | View Biographyhttp://www.jimersoncobb.com/attorneys/christopher-m-cobb/
From: Gibbons, Michael [mailto:Michael.Gibbons@lowndes-law.com]
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 4:10 PM
To: 'Reese J. Henderson, Jr.'; Chris Cobb; lauriesams@comcast.net; 'White, Patrick G.'; 'Brian Solomon'; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: RE: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
Qualifiers are not required to be employees or owners of the qualified business organization. They are required to have ultimate authority over all construction issues on projects where their license is used for a permit. I have assisted business organizations with Ch. 489 qualifiers who were neither owners nor employees.
Michael R. Gibbons (Biohttp://lowndes-law.com/our-people/michael-r-gibbons)
Shareholder
Lowndes, Drosdick, Doster, Kantor & Reed, P.A.
215 N. Eola Drive
Orlando, FL 32801
Phone: 407-418-6378
Fax: 407-843-4444
email: michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.commailto:michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.com
website: http://www.lowndes-law.comhttp://www.lowndes-law.com/
[cid:image005.jpg@01CF3C7C.51C17D40]
From: Reese J. Henderson, Jr. [mailto:Reese.Henderson@gray-robinson.com]
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 3:51 PM
To: Chris Cobb; lauriesams@comcast.netmailto:lauriesams@comcast.net; Gibbons, Michael; 'White, Patrick G.'; 'Brian Solomon'; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: RE: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
I agree with Chris – you have a bigger problem than WC here. You have potential aiding and abetting issues . . . .
From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Chris Cobb
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 3:38 PM
To: lauriesams@comcast.netmailto:lauriesams@comcast.net; Gibbons, Michael; 'White, Patrick G.'; 'Brian Solomon'; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
Also makes you wonder how the sister can qualify the company if she is not a member and not an employee……
[cid:image002.jpg@01CF3C7C.5A567320]
Christopher M. Cobb, Esq.
Board Certified in Construction Law
Jimerson & Cobb, P.A.
Business Litigation | Construction Law | Banking Law | Creditor’s Rights & AR Collection | Community Associations
Telephone: (904) 389-0050 | Facsimile: (904) 212-1269
ccobb@jimersoncobb.commailto:ccobb@jimersoncobb.com | JimersonCobb.comhttp://www.jimersoncobb.com/
Add to Contactshttp://www.jimersoncobb.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Christopher-M-Cobb.vcf | View Biographyhttp://www.jimersoncobb.com/attorneys/christopher-m-cobb/
From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org]mailto:[mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of lauriesams@comcast.netmailto:lauriesams@comcast.net
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 3:21 PM
To: Gibbons, Michael; 'White, Patrick G.'; 'Brian Solomon'; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
I believe everyone is way over thinking this. I think the issue is the sister (the one holding the license) does not have a workers comp exemption. To obtain a workers comp exemption you must own at least 10%. If its a single member LLC, your client would be the one with the exemption. She does not own any of the LLC, as such she cannot be exempt. He needs to either have her as a % owner and file for the 2 year exemption or he needs to get it for her.
Laurie B. Sams
Van Winkle & Sams, P.A.
3859 Bee Ridge Road, Suite 202
Sarasota, FL 34233
(941) 923-1685
fax (941) 923-0174
www.vwslaw.comhttp://www.vwslaw.com
Please Note: Our firm only accepts WIRES for closings.
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE: This transmittal may be a confidential attorney-client communication or may otherwise
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----- Original Message -----
From: Gibbons, Michaelmailto:Michael.Gibbons@lowndes-law.com
To: 'White, Patrick G.'mailto:PWhite@porterwright.com ; 'Brian Solomon'mailto:bsolomon@solomon-law.com ; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 2:50 PM
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
Thanks for the statutory cites Patrick. However, I’m not sure that resolves the issue. Ch. 489 simply requires the licensed contractor to comply with the WC insurance requirements of Ch. 440. Ch. 440 meanwhile expressly permits certain principal owned companies to be WC exempt and I am unaware of a provision that eliminates GC’s from taking advantage of this statutory exemption (which seems wrong and was basis for my original post). Based on the fact that I have encountered several licensed GC’s without WC coverage, I am assuming that DBPR does not require WC coverage as a condition of licensure. Apparently, DBPR only requires the contractor to comply with Ch. 440 which then allows the very small closely owned contractor to exempt itself from coverage.
Michael R. Gibbons (Biohttp://lowndes-law.com/our-people/michael-r-gibbons)
Shareholder
Lowndes, Drosdick, Doster, Kantor & Reed, P.A.
215 N. Eola Drive
Orlando, FL 32801
Phone: 407-418-6378
Fax: 407-843-4444
email: michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.commailto:michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.com
website: http://www.lowndes-law.comhttp://www.lowndes-law.com/
[cid:image007.jpg@01CF3C7C.51C17D40]
From: White, Patrick G. [mailto:PWhite@porterwright.com]
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 2:17 PM
To: Gibbons, Michael; 'Brian Solomon'; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: RE: Local Licensing
Sounds like Pasco County has it almost right in that they wouldn’t be able to issue a BP, see Secs. 489.113 (4)(c) 489.114, so why grant the license! They wouldn’t here in Collier either-
(c) The local government may also deny issuance of, or may suspend, any outstanding building permit where a contractor fails or refuses to provide proof of public liability and property damage insurance coverage as required by s. 489.115<index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0400-0499/0489/Sections/0489.115.html>(5) and workers’ compensation insurance coverage as required by s. 489.114<index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0400-0499/0489/Sections/0489.114.html>
Patrick G. White | Biohttp://www.porterwright.com/patrick_white/ | Porter Wright Morris & Arthur LLPhttp://www.porterwright.com | 9132 Strada Place, 3rd Floor | Naples, FL 34108
Direct: 239-593-2963 | Mobile: 239-784-5173 | Fax: 239-593-2990 | Toll Free: 800-876-7962 | pwhite@porterwright.commailto:pwhite@porterwright.com
Florida Bar Board Certified in City, County, and Local Government Law
porterwright
From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Gibbons, Michael
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 1:28 PM
To: 'Brian Solomon'; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
I have not. And sorry for hijacking your post, Brian, but I have occasionally run into the WC exempt GC and it always seemed wrong to me. The GC is supposed to be the “statutory employer” under Ch. 440 if, as happens, an injured subcontractor employee is not covered by the workers compensation policy of the subcontractor employer. When the GC itself is exempt, that safety net is lost. It’s been a while since I read the CILB FAC governing licensing requirements but it used to mandate a minimum amount of GL insurance coverage and compliance with workers compensation insurance coverage requirements. I realize that some GC entities are small enough to qualify as WC exempt but I’m surprised that neither Ch. 440 nor FAC apparently expressly prohibits a General Contractor from operating without workers compensation coverage.
Michael R. Gibbons (Biohttp://lowndes-law.com/our-people/michael-r-gibbons)
Shareholder
Lowndes, Drosdick, Doster, Kantor & Reed, P.A.
215 N. Eola Drive
Orlando, FL 32801
Phone: 407-418-6378
Fax: 407-843-4444
email: michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.commailto:michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.com
website: http://www.lowndes-law.comhttp://www.lowndes-law.com/
[cid:image007.jpg@01CF3C7C.51C17D40]
From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Brian Solomon
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 12:51 PM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
My client is a single member LLC with a certificate of workers compensation insurance exemption. The company is qualified as a general contractor by his sister, who does not work for the company, she only qualifies the company. Pasco County is refusing to give my client a county license because the qualifier doesn’t have proof of workers compensation insurance.
Has anyone run into this situation?
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Reese J. Henderson, Jr.
Board Certified Construction Attorney
GrayRobinson, P.A.
50 North Laura Street, Suite 1100
Jacksonville, FL 32202
Main: 904-598-9929 | Fax: 904-598-9109
Email: reese.henderson@gray-robinson.commailto:reese.henderson@gray-robinson.com
GRAY | ROBINSONhttp://gray-robinson.com/
ATTORNEYS AT LAWhttp://www.gray-robinson.com/
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Notice Under U.S. Treasury Department Circular 230: To the extent that this e-mail communication and the attachment(s) hereto, if any, may contain written advice concerning or relating to a Federal (U.S.) tax issue, United States Treasury Department Regulations (Circular 230) require that we (and we do hereby) advise and disclose to you that, unless we expressly state otherwise in writing, such tax advice is not written or intended to be used, and cannot be used by you (the addressee), or other person(s), for purposes of (1) avoiding penalties imposed under the United States Internal Revenue Code or (2) promoting, marketing or recommending to any other person(s) the (or any of the) transaction(s) or matter(s) addressed, discussed or referenced herein. Each taxpayer should seek advice from an independent tax advisor with respect to any Federal tax issue(s), transaction(s) or matter(s) addressed, discussed or referenced herein based upon his, her or its particular circumstances. [v4.30]
The DBPR Form of licensure application simply asks for the name of the person “appointed” by the organization to be the qualifying agent. It is not that unusual to have a qualifier who is neither employee nor owner.
Michael R. Gibbons (Biohttp://lowndes-law.com/our-people/michael-r-gibbons)
Shareholder
Lowndes, Drosdick, Doster, Kantor & Reed, P.A.
215 N. Eola Drive
Orlando, FL 32801
Phone: 407-418-6378
Fax: 407-843-4444
email: michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.commailto:michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.com
website: http://www.lowndes-law.comhttp://www.lowndes-law.com/
[cid:image001.jpg@01CF3C7D.08C301D0]
From: Chris Cobb [mailto:ccobb@jimersoncobb.com]
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 4:18 PM
To: Gibbons, Michael; 'Reese J. Henderson, Jr.'; lauriesams@comcast.net; 'White, Patrick G.'; 'Brian Solomon'; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: RE: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
6G4-15.0024 states - Documentation of one or more of the following:
(1) 20% or more ownership of the business to be qualified;
(2) W2 employee
(3) Other evidence of the means and methods utilized by the applicant to ensure control over the construction work of the proposed entity.
It is hard to establish number 3 without having number 1 and/or 2. But I will concede that it may be possible, but is certainly not the norm .
[cid:image002.jpg@01CF3C7D.08C301D0]
Christopher M. Cobb, Esq.
Board Certified in Construction Law
Jimerson & Cobb, P.A.
Business Litigation | Construction Law | Banking Law | Creditor’s Rights & AR Collection | Community Associations
Telephone: (904) 389-0050 | Facsimile: (904) 212-1269
ccobb@jimersoncobb.commailto:ccobb@jimersoncobb.com | JimersonCobb.comhttp://www.jimersoncobb.com/
Add to Contactshttp://www.jimersoncobb.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Christopher-M-Cobb.vcf | View Biographyhttp://www.jimersoncobb.com/attorneys/christopher-m-cobb/
From: Gibbons, Michael [mailto:Michael.Gibbons@lowndes-law.com]
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 4:10 PM
To: 'Reese J. Henderson, Jr.'; Chris Cobb; lauriesams@comcast.netmailto:lauriesams@comcast.net; 'White, Patrick G.'; 'Brian Solomon'; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: RE: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
Qualifiers are not required to be employees or owners of the qualified business organization. They are required to have ultimate authority over all construction issues on projects where their license is used for a permit. I have assisted business organizations with Ch. 489 qualifiers who were neither owners nor employees.
Michael R. Gibbons (Biohttp://lowndes-law.com/our-people/michael-r-gibbons)
Shareholder
Lowndes, Drosdick, Doster, Kantor & Reed, P.A.
215 N. Eola Drive
Orlando, FL 32801
Phone: 407-418-6378
Fax: 407-843-4444
email: michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.commailto:michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.com
website: http://www.lowndes-law.comhttp://www.lowndes-law.com/
[cid:image011.jpg@01CF3C7D.07712D70]
From: Reese J. Henderson, Jr. [mailto:Reese.Henderson@gray-robinson.com]
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 3:51 PM
To: Chris Cobb; lauriesams@comcast.netmailto:lauriesams@comcast.net; Gibbons, Michael; 'White, Patrick G.'; 'Brian Solomon'; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: RE: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
I agree with Chris – you have a bigger problem than WC here. You have potential aiding and abetting issues . . . .
From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Chris Cobb
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 3:38 PM
To: lauriesams@comcast.netmailto:lauriesams@comcast.net; Gibbons, Michael; 'White, Patrick G.'; 'Brian Solomon'; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
Also makes you wonder how the sister can qualify the company if she is not a member and not an employee……
[cid:image003.jpg@01CF3C7D.08C301D0]
Christopher M. Cobb, Esq.
Board Certified in Construction Law
Jimerson & Cobb, P.A.
Business Litigation | Construction Law | Banking Law | Creditor’s Rights & AR Collection | Community Associations
Telephone: (904) 389-0050 | Facsimile: (904) 212-1269
ccobb@jimersoncobb.commailto:ccobb@jimersoncobb.com | JimersonCobb.comhttp://www.jimersoncobb.com/
Add to Contactshttp://www.jimersoncobb.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Christopher-M-Cobb.vcf | View Biographyhttp://www.jimersoncobb.com/attorneys/christopher-m-cobb/
From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org]mailto:[mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of lauriesams@comcast.netmailto:lauriesams@comcast.net
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 3:21 PM
To: Gibbons, Michael; 'White, Patrick G.'; 'Brian Solomon'; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
I believe everyone is way over thinking this. I think the issue is the sister (the one holding the license) does not have a workers comp exemption. To obtain a workers comp exemption you must own at least 10%. If its a single member LLC, your client would be the one with the exemption. She does not own any of the LLC, as such she cannot be exempt. He needs to either have her as a % owner and file for the 2 year exemption or he needs to get it for her.
Laurie B. Sams
Van Winkle & Sams, P.A.
3859 Bee Ridge Road, Suite 202
Sarasota, FL 34233
(941) 923-1685
fax (941) 923-0174
www.vwslaw.comhttp://www.vwslaw.com
Please Note: Our firm only accepts WIRES for closings.
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE: This transmittal may be a confidential attorney-client communication or may otherwise
be privileged or confidential. If it is not clear that you are the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have
received this transmittal in error. In that case, any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this transmittal is
strictly prohibited. If you suspect that you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by
telephone (941) 923-1685, or e-mail at lauriesams@comcast.netmailto:lauriesams@comcast.net and immediately delete this message and all of its
attachments.
----- Original Message -----
From: Gibbons, Michaelmailto:Michael.Gibbons@lowndes-law.com
To: 'White, Patrick G.'mailto:PWhite@porterwright.com ; 'Brian Solomon'mailto:bsolomon@solomon-law.com ; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 2:50 PM
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
Thanks for the statutory cites Patrick. However, I’m not sure that resolves the issue. Ch. 489 simply requires the licensed contractor to comply with the WC insurance requirements of Ch. 440. Ch. 440 meanwhile expressly permits certain principal owned companies to be WC exempt and I am unaware of a provision that eliminates GC’s from taking advantage of this statutory exemption (which seems wrong and was basis for my original post). Based on the fact that I have encountered several licensed GC’s without WC coverage, I am assuming that DBPR does not require WC coverage as a condition of licensure. Apparently, DBPR only requires the contractor to comply with Ch. 440 which then allows the very small closely owned contractor to exempt itself from coverage.
Michael R. Gibbons (Biohttp://lowndes-law.com/our-people/michael-r-gibbons)
Shareholder
Lowndes, Drosdick, Doster, Kantor & Reed, P.A.
215 N. Eola Drive
Orlando, FL 32801
Phone: 407-418-6378
Fax: 407-843-4444
email: michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.commailto:michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.com
website: http://www.lowndes-law.comhttp://www.lowndes-law.com/
[cid:image013.jpg@01CF3C7D.07712D70]
From: White, Patrick G. [mailto:PWhite@porterwright.com]
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 2:17 PM
To: Gibbons, Michael; 'Brian Solomon'; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: RE: Local Licensing
Sounds like Pasco County has it almost right in that they wouldn’t be able to issue a BP, see Secs. 489.113 (4)(c) 489.114, so why grant the license! They wouldn’t here in Collier either-
(c) The local government may also deny issuance of, or may suspend, any outstanding building permit where a contractor fails or refuses to provide proof of public liability and property damage insurance coverage as required by s. 489.115<index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0400-0499/0489/Sections/0489.115.html>(5) and workers’ compensation insurance coverage as required by s. 489.114<index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0400-0499/0489/Sections/0489.114.html>
Patrick G. White | Biohttp://www.porterwright.com/patrick_white/ | Porter Wright Morris & Arthur LLPhttp://www.porterwright.com | 9132 Strada Place, 3rd Floor | Naples, FL 34108
Direct: 239-593-2963 | Mobile: 239-784-5173 | Fax: 239-593-2990 | Toll Free: 800-876-7962 | pwhite@porterwright.commailto:pwhite@porterwright.com
Florida Bar Board Certified in City, County, and Local Government Law
porterwright
From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Gibbons, Michael
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 1:28 PM
To: 'Brian Solomon'; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
I have not. And sorry for hijacking your post, Brian, but I have occasionally run into the WC exempt GC and it always seemed wrong to me. The GC is supposed to be the “statutory employer” under Ch. 440 if, as happens, an injured subcontractor employee is not covered by the workers compensation policy of the subcontractor employer. When the GC itself is exempt, that safety net is lost. It’s been a while since I read the CILB FAC governing licensing requirements but it used to mandate a minimum amount of GL insurance coverage and compliance with workers compensation insurance coverage requirements. I realize that some GC entities are small enough to qualify as WC exempt but I’m surprised that neither Ch. 440 nor FAC apparently expressly prohibits a General Contractor from operating without workers compensation coverage.
Michael R. Gibbons (Biohttp://lowndes-law.com/our-people/michael-r-gibbons)
Shareholder
Lowndes, Drosdick, Doster, Kantor & Reed, P.A.
215 N. Eola Drive
Orlando, FL 32801
Phone: 407-418-6378
Fax: 407-843-4444
email: michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.commailto:michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.com
website: http://www.lowndes-law.comhttp://www.lowndes-law.com/
[cid:image013.jpg@01CF3C7D.07712D70]
From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Brian Solomon
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 12:51 PM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
My client is a single member LLC with a certificate of workers compensation insurance exemption. The company is qualified as a general contractor by his sister, who does not work for the company, she only qualifies the company. Pasco County is refusing to give my client a county license because the qualifier doesn’t have proof of workers compensation insurance.
Has anyone run into this situation?
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Reese J. Henderson, Jr.
Board Certified Construction Attorney
GrayRobinson, P.A.
50 North Laura Street, Suite 1100
Jacksonville, FL 32202
Main: 904-598-9929 | Fax: 904-598-9109
Email: reese.henderson@gray-robinson.commailto:reese.henderson@gray-robinson.com
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61G4-15.0024 Supervision of Business Entities.
Documentation of one or more of the following factors in an application to qualify a business entity will demonstrate to the Board, absent evidence to the contrary, that an applicant possesses the ability to properly supervise the proposed additional business entity for purposes of the application:
(1) The applicant to qualify an additional business owns 20% or more of the business to be qualified;
(2) The applicant to qualify an additional business is a W2 employee of the business to be qualified; or
(3) Other evidence of the means and methods utilized by the applicant to ensure control over the construction work of the proposed additional entity.
Rulemaking Authority 489.108, 489.119 FS Law Implemented 489.108, 489.119 FS History–New 5-2-12.
From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Gibbons, Michael
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 4:10 PM
To: 'Reese J. Henderson, Jr.'; Chris Cobb; lauriesams@comcast.net; 'White, Patrick G.'; 'Brian Solomon'; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
Qualifiers are not required to be employees or owners of the qualified business organization. They are required to have ultimate authority over all construction issues on projects where their license is used for a permit. I have assisted business organizations with Ch. 489 qualifiers who were neither owners nor employees.
Michael R. Gibbons (Biohttp://lowndes-law.com/our-people/michael-r-gibbons)
Shareholder
Lowndes, Drosdick, Doster, Kantor & Reed, P.A.
215 N. Eola Drive
Orlando, FL 32801
Phone: 407-418-6378
Fax: 407-843-4444
email: michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.commailto:michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.com
website: http://www.lowndes-law.comhttp://www.lowndes-law.com/
[cid:image001.jpg@01CF3C7D.042C1490]
From: Reese J. Henderson, Jr. [mailto:Reese.Henderson@gray-robinson.com]
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 3:51 PM
To: Chris Cobb; lauriesams@comcast.net; Gibbons, Michael; 'White, Patrick G.'; 'Brian Solomon'; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: RE: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
I agree with Chris – you have a bigger problem than WC here. You have potential aiding and abetting issues . . . .
From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Chris Cobb
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 3:38 PM
To: lauriesams@comcast.netmailto:lauriesams@comcast.net; Gibbons, Michael; 'White, Patrick G.'; 'Brian Solomon'; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
Also makes you wonder how the sister can qualify the company if she is not a member and not an employee……
[cid:image004.jpg@01CF3C7D.042C1490]
Christopher M. Cobb, Esq.
Board Certified in Construction Law
Jimerson & Cobb, P.A.
Business Litigation | Construction Law | Banking Law | Creditor’s Rights & AR Collection | Community Associations
Telephone: (904) 389-0050 | Facsimile: (904) 212-1269
ccobb@jimersoncobb.commailto:ccobb@jimersoncobb.com | JimersonCobb.comhttp://www.jimersoncobb.com/
Add to Contactshttp://www.jimersoncobb.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Christopher-M-Cobb.vcf | View Biographyhttp://www.jimersoncobb.com/attorneys/christopher-m-cobb/
From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org]mailto:[mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of lauriesams@comcast.netmailto:lauriesams@comcast.net
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 3:21 PM
To: Gibbons, Michael; 'White, Patrick G.'; 'Brian Solomon'; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
I believe everyone is way over thinking this. I think the issue is the sister (the one holding the license) does not have a workers comp exemption. To obtain a workers comp exemption you must own at least 10%. If its a single member LLC, your client would be the one with the exemption. She does not own any of the LLC, as such she cannot be exempt. He needs to either have her as a % owner and file for the 2 year exemption or he needs to get it for her.
Laurie B. Sams
Van Winkle & Sams, P.A.
3859 Bee Ridge Road, Suite 202
Sarasota, FL 34233
(941) 923-1685
fax (941) 923-0174
www.vwslaw.comhttp://www.vwslaw.com
Please Note: Our firm only accepts WIRES for closings.
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----- Original Message -----
From: Gibbons, Michaelmailto:Michael.Gibbons@lowndes-law.com
To: 'White, Patrick G.'mailto:PWhite@porterwright.com ; 'Brian Solomon'mailto:bsolomon@solomon-law.com ; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 2:50 PM
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
Thanks for the statutory cites Patrick. However, I’m not sure that resolves the issue. Ch. 489 simply requires the licensed contractor to comply with the WC insurance requirements of Ch. 440. Ch. 440 meanwhile expressly permits certain principal owned companies to be WC exempt and I am unaware of a provision that eliminates GC’s from taking advantage of this statutory exemption (which seems wrong and was basis for my original post). Based on the fact that I have encountered several licensed GC’s without WC coverage, I am assuming that DBPR does not require WC coverage as a condition of licensure. Apparently, DBPR only requires the contractor to comply with Ch. 440 which then allows the very small closely owned contractor to exempt itself from coverage.
Michael R. Gibbons (Biohttp://lowndes-law.com/our-people/michael-r-gibbons)
Shareholder
Lowndes, Drosdick, Doster, Kantor & Reed, P.A.
215 N. Eola Drive
Orlando, FL 32801
Phone: 407-418-6378
Fax: 407-843-4444
email: michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.commailto:michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.com
website: http://www.lowndes-law.comhttp://www.lowndes-law.com/
[cid:image005.jpg@01CF3C7D.042C1490]
From: White, Patrick G. [mailto:PWhite@porterwright.com]
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 2:17 PM
To: Gibbons, Michael; 'Brian Solomon'; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: RE: Local Licensing
Sounds like Pasco County has it almost right in that they wouldn’t be able to issue a BP, see Secs. 489.113 (4)(c) 489.114, so why grant the license! They wouldn’t here in Collier either-
(c) The local government may also deny issuance of, or may suspend, any outstanding building permit where a contractor fails or refuses to provide proof of public liability and property damage insurance coverage as required by s. 489.115<index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0400-0499/0489/Sections/0489.115.html>(5) and workers’ compensation insurance coverage as required by s. 489.114<index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0400-0499/0489/Sections/0489.114.html>
Patrick G. White | Biohttp://www.porterwright.com/patrick_white/ | Porter Wright Morris & Arthur LLPhttp://www.porterwright.com | 9132 Strada Place, 3rd Floor | Naples, FL 34108
Direct: 239-593-2963 | Mobile: 239-784-5173 | Fax: 239-593-2990 | Toll Free: 800-876-7962 | pwhite@porterwright.commailto:pwhite@porterwright.com
Florida Bar Board Certified in City, County, and Local Government Law
porterwright
From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Gibbons, Michael
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 1:28 PM
To: 'Brian Solomon'; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
I have not. And sorry for hijacking your post, Brian, but I have occasionally run into the WC exempt GC and it always seemed wrong to me. The GC is supposed to be the “statutory employer” under Ch. 440 if, as happens, an injured subcontractor employee is not covered by the workers compensation policy of the subcontractor employer. When the GC itself is exempt, that safety net is lost. It’s been a while since I read the CILB FAC governing licensing requirements but it used to mandate a minimum amount of GL insurance coverage and compliance with workers compensation insurance coverage requirements. I realize that some GC entities are small enough to qualify as WC exempt but I’m surprised that neither Ch. 440 nor FAC apparently expressly prohibits a General Contractor from operating without workers compensation coverage.
Michael R. Gibbons (Biohttp://lowndes-law.com/our-people/michael-r-gibbons)
Shareholder
Lowndes, Drosdick, Doster, Kantor & Reed, P.A.
215 N. Eola Drive
Orlando, FL 32801
Phone: 407-418-6378
Fax: 407-843-4444
email: michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.commailto:michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.com
website: http://www.lowndes-law.comhttp://www.lowndes-law.com/
[cid:image005.jpg@01CF3C7D.042C1490]
From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Brian Solomon
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 12:51 PM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
My client is a single member LLC with a certificate of workers compensation insurance exemption. The company is qualified as a general contractor by his sister, who does not work for the company, she only qualifies the company. Pasco County is refusing to give my client a county license because the qualifier doesn’t have proof of workers compensation insurance.
Has anyone run into this situation?
[email signature 4]
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Notice Under U.S. Treasury Department Circular 230: To the extent that this e-mail communication and the attachment(s) hereto, if any, may contain written advice concerning or relating to a Federal (U.S.) tax issue, United States Treasury Department Regulations (Circular 230) require that we (and we do hereby) advise and disclose to you that, unless we expressly state otherwise in writing, such tax advice is not written or intended to be used, and cannot be used by you (the addressee), or other person(s), for purposes of (1) avoiding penalties imposed under the United States Internal Revenue Code or (2) promoting, marketing or recommending to any other person(s) the (or any of the) transaction(s) or matter(s) addressed, discussed or referenced herein. Each taxpayer should seek advice from an independent tax advisor with respect to any Federal tax issue(s), transaction(s) or matter(s) addressed, discussed or referenced herein based upon his, her or its particular circumstances. [v4.30]
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Reese J. Henderson, Jr.
Board Certified Construction Attorney
GrayRobinson, P.A.
50 North Laura Street, Suite 1100
Jacksonville, FL 32202
Main: 904-598-9929 | Fax: 904-598-9109
Email: reese.henderson@gray-robinson.commailto:reese.henderson@gray-robinson.com
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Michael: I’m not sure what your statistics are based on, but I happen to have assisted a number of companies get qualified and invariably, for all practical purposes, the qualifier needed to be either a W-2 employee or an owner. Anything less than that kept getting kicked back by CILB. We were told we could go before the board without it, but our chances were basically nil. It would greatly interest me to hear how someone else got around that.
From: Gibbons, Michael [mailto:Michael.Gibbons@lowndes-law.com]
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 4:23 PM
To: 'Chris Cobb'; Reese J. Henderson, Jr.; lauriesams@comcast.net; 'White, Patrick G.'; 'Brian Solomon'; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: RE: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
The DBPR Form of licensure application simply asks for the name of the person “appointed” by the organization to be the qualifying agent. It is not that unusual to have a qualifier who is neither employee nor owner.
Michael R. Gibbons (Biohttp://lowndes-law.com/our-people/michael-r-gibbons)
Shareholder
Lowndes, Drosdick, Doster, Kantor & Reed, P.A.
215 N. Eola Drive
Orlando, FL 32801
Phone: 407-418-6378
Fax: 407-843-4444
email: michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.commailto:michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.com
website: http://www.lowndes-law.comhttp://www.lowndes-law.com/
[cid:image001.jpg@01CF3C7D.C947ACD0]
From: Chris Cobb [mailto:ccobb@jimersoncobb.com]mailto:[mailto:ccobb@jimersoncobb.com]
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 4:18 PM
To: Gibbons, Michael; 'Reese J. Henderson, Jr.'; lauriesams@comcast.netmailto:lauriesams@comcast.net; 'White, Patrick G.'; 'Brian Solomon'; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: RE: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
6G4-15.0024 states - Documentation of one or more of the following:
(1) 20% or more ownership of the business to be qualified;
(2) W2 employee
(3) Other evidence of the means and methods utilized by the applicant to ensure control over the construction work of the proposed entity.
It is hard to establish number 3 without having number 1 and/or 2. But I will concede that it may be possible, but is certainly not the norm .
[cid:image005.jpg@01CF3C7E.0826CC60]
Christopher M. Cobb, Esq.
Board Certified in Construction Law
Jimerson & Cobb, P.A.
Business Litigation | Construction Law | Banking Law | Creditor’s Rights & AR Collection | Community Associations
Telephone: (904) 389-0050 | Facsimile: (904) 212-1269
ccobb@jimersoncobb.commailto:ccobb@jimersoncobb.com | JimersonCobb.comhttp://www.jimersoncobb.com/
Add to Contactshttp://www.jimersoncobb.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Christopher-M-Cobb.vcf | View Biographyhttp://www.jimersoncobb.com/attorneys/christopher-m-cobb/
From: Gibbons, Michael [mailto:Michael.Gibbons@lowndes-law.com]
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 4:10 PM
To: 'Reese J. Henderson, Jr.'; Chris Cobb; lauriesams@comcast.netmailto:lauriesams@comcast.net; 'White, Patrick G.'; 'Brian Solomon'; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: RE: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
Qualifiers are not required to be employees or owners of the qualified business organization. They are required to have ultimate authority over all construction issues on projects where their license is used for a permit. I have assisted business organizations with Ch. 489 qualifiers who were neither owners nor employees.
Michael R. Gibbons (Biohttp://lowndes-law.com/our-people/michael-r-gibbons)
Shareholder
Lowndes, Drosdick, Doster, Kantor & Reed, P.A.
215 N. Eola Drive
Orlando, FL 32801
Phone: 407-418-6378
Fax: 407-843-4444
email: michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.commailto:michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.com
website: http://www.lowndes-law.comhttp://www.lowndes-law.com/
[cid:image001.jpg@01CF3C7D.C947ACD0]
From: Reese J. Henderson, Jr. [mailto:Reese.Henderson@gray-robinson.com]
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 3:51 PM
To: Chris Cobb; lauriesams@comcast.netmailto:lauriesams@comcast.net; Gibbons, Michael; 'White, Patrick G.'; 'Brian Solomon'; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: RE: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
I agree with Chris – you have a bigger problem than WC here. You have potential aiding and abetting issues . . . .
From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Chris Cobb
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 3:38 PM
To: lauriesams@comcast.netmailto:lauriesams@comcast.net; Gibbons, Michael; 'White, Patrick G.'; 'Brian Solomon'; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
Also makes you wonder how the sister can qualify the company if she is not a member and not an employee……
[cid:image006.jpg@01CF3C7E.0826CC60]
Christopher M. Cobb, Esq.
Board Certified in Construction Law
Jimerson & Cobb, P.A.
Business Litigation | Construction Law | Banking Law | Creditor’s Rights & AR Collection | Community Associations
Telephone: (904) 389-0050 | Facsimile: (904) 212-1269
ccobb@jimersoncobb.commailto:ccobb@jimersoncobb.com | JimersonCobb.comhttp://www.jimersoncobb.com/
Add to Contactshttp://www.jimersoncobb.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Christopher-M-Cobb.vcf | View Biographyhttp://www.jimersoncobb.com/attorneys/christopher-m-cobb/
From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org]mailto:[mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of lauriesams@comcast.netmailto:lauriesams@comcast.net
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 3:21 PM
To: Gibbons, Michael; 'White, Patrick G.'; 'Brian Solomon'; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
I believe everyone is way over thinking this. I think the issue is the sister (the one holding the license) does not have a workers comp exemption. To obtain a workers comp exemption you must own at least 10%. If its a single member LLC, your client would be the one with the exemption. She does not own any of the LLC, as such she cannot be exempt. He needs to either have her as a % owner and file for the 2 year exemption or he needs to get it for her.
Laurie B. Sams
Van Winkle & Sams, P.A.
3859 Bee Ridge Road, Suite 202
Sarasota, FL 34233
(941) 923-1685
fax (941) 923-0174
www.vwslaw.comhttp://www.vwslaw.com
Please Note: Our firm only accepts WIRES for closings.
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telephone (941) 923-1685, or e-mail at lauriesams@comcast.netmailto:lauriesams@comcast.net and immediately delete this message and all of its
attachments.
----- Original Message -----
From: Gibbons, Michaelmailto:Michael.Gibbons@lowndes-law.com
To: 'White, Patrick G.'mailto:PWhite@porterwright.com ; 'Brian Solomon'mailto:bsolomon@solomon-law.com ; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 2:50 PM
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
Thanks for the statutory cites Patrick. However, I’m not sure that resolves the issue. Ch. 489 simply requires the licensed contractor to comply with the WC insurance requirements of Ch. 440. Ch. 440 meanwhile expressly permits certain principal owned companies to be WC exempt and I am unaware of a provision that eliminates GC’s from taking advantage of this statutory exemption (which seems wrong and was basis for my original post). Based on the fact that I have encountered several licensed GC’s without WC coverage, I am assuming that DBPR does not require WC coverage as a condition of licensure. Apparently, DBPR only requires the contractor to comply with Ch. 440 which then allows the very small closely owned contractor to exempt itself from coverage.
Michael R. Gibbons (Biohttp://lowndes-law.com/our-people/michael-r-gibbons)
Shareholder
Lowndes, Drosdick, Doster, Kantor & Reed, P.A.
215 N. Eola Drive
Orlando, FL 32801
Phone: 407-418-6378
Fax: 407-843-4444
email: michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.commailto:michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.com
website: http://www.lowndes-law.comhttp://www.lowndes-law.com/
[cid:image007.jpg@01CF3C7D.C947ACD0]
From: White, Patrick G. [mailto:PWhite@porterwright.com]
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 2:17 PM
To: Gibbons, Michael; 'Brian Solomon'; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: RE: Local Licensing
Sounds like Pasco County has it almost right in that they wouldn’t be able to issue a BP, see Secs. 489.113 (4)(c) 489.114, so why grant the license! They wouldn’t here in Collier either-
(c) The local government may also deny issuance of, or may suspend, any outstanding building permit where a contractor fails or refuses to provide proof of public liability and property damage insurance coverage as required by s. 489.115<index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0400-0499/0489/Sections/0489.115.html>(5) and workers’ compensation insurance coverage as required by s. 489.114<index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0400-0499/0489/Sections/0489.114.html>
Patrick G. White | Biohttp://www.porterwright.com/patrick_white/ | Porter Wright Morris & Arthur LLPhttp://www.porterwright.com | 9132 Strada Place, 3rd Floor | Naples, FL 34108
Direct: 239-593-2963 | Mobile: 239-784-5173 | Fax: 239-593-2990 | Toll Free: 800-876-7962 | pwhite@porterwright.commailto:pwhite@porterwright.com
Florida Bar Board Certified in City, County, and Local Government Law
porterwright
From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Gibbons, Michael
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 1:28 PM
To: 'Brian Solomon'; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
I have not. And sorry for hijacking your post, Brian, but I have occasionally run into the WC exempt GC and it always seemed wrong to me. The GC is supposed to be the “statutory employer” under Ch. 440 if, as happens, an injured subcontractor employee is not covered by the workers compensation policy of the subcontractor employer. When the GC itself is exempt, that safety net is lost. It’s been a while since I read the CILB FAC governing licensing requirements but it used to mandate a minimum amount of GL insurance coverage and compliance with workers compensation insurance coverage requirements. I realize that some GC entities are small enough to qualify as WC exempt but I’m surprised that neither Ch. 440 nor FAC apparently expressly prohibits a General Contractor from operating without workers compensation coverage.
Michael R. Gibbons (Biohttp://lowndes-law.com/our-people/michael-r-gibbons)
Shareholder
Lowndes, Drosdick, Doster, Kantor & Reed, P.A.
215 N. Eola Drive
Orlando, FL 32801
Phone: 407-418-6378
Fax: 407-843-4444
email: michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.commailto:michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.com
website: http://www.lowndes-law.comhttp://www.lowndes-law.com/
[cid:image007.jpg@01CF3C7D.C947ACD0]
From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Brian Solomon
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 12:51 PM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
My client is a single member LLC with a certificate of workers compensation insurance exemption. The company is qualified as a general contractor by his sister, who does not work for the company, she only qualifies the company. Pasco County is refusing to give my client a county license because the qualifier doesn’t have proof of workers compensation insurance.
Has anyone run into this situation?
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Reese J. Henderson, Jr.
Board Certified Construction Attorney
GrayRobinson, P.A.
50 North Laura Street, Suite 1100
Jacksonville, FL 32202
Main: 904-598-9929 | Fax: 904-598-9109
Email: reese.henderson@gray-robinson.commailto:reese.henderson@gray-robinson.com
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Notice Under U.S. Treasury Department Circular 230: To the extent that this e-mail communication and the attachment(s) hereto, if any, may contain written advice concerning or relating to a Federal (U.S.) tax issue, United States Treasury Department Regulations (Circular 230) require that we (and we do hereby) advise and disclose to you that, unless we expressly state otherwise in writing, such tax advice is not written or intended to be used, and cannot be used by you (the addressee), or other person(s), for purposes of (1) avoiding penalties imposed under the United States Internal Revenue Code or (2) promoting, marketing or recommending to any other person(s) the (or any of the) transaction(s) or matter(s) addressed, discussed or referenced herein. Each taxpayer should seek advice from an independent tax advisor with respect to any Federal tax issue(s), transaction(s) or matter(s) addressed, discussed or referenced herein based upon his, her or its particular circumstances. [v4.30]
Reese J. Henderson, Jr.
Board Certified Construction Attorney
GrayRobinson, P.A.
50 North Laura Street, Suite 1100
Jacksonville, FL 32202
Main: 904-598-9929 | Fax: 904-598-9109
Email: reese.henderson@gray-robinson.com
This e-mail is intended only for the individual(s) or entity(s) named within the message. This e-mail might contain legally privileged and confidential information. If you properly received this e-mail as a client or retained expert, please hold it in confidence to protect the attorney-client or work product privileges. Should the intended recipient forward or disclose this message to another person or party, that action could constitute a waiver of the attorney-client privilege. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is prohibited by the sender and to do so might constitute a violation of the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. section 2510-2521. If this communication was received in error we apologize for the intrusion. Please notify us by reply e-mail and delete the original message without reading same. Nothing in this e-mail message shall, in and of itself, create an attorney-client relationship with the sender.
p.s. Note highlighting below.
From: Roberts, Hardy L.
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 4:23 PM
To: 'Gibbons, Michael'; 'Reese J. Henderson, Jr.'; Chris Cobb; lauriesams@comcast.net; 'White, Patrick G.'; 'Brian Solomon'; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: RE: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
61G4-15.0024 Supervision of Business Entities.
Documentation of one or more of the following factors in an application to qualify a business entity will demonstrate to the Board, absent evidence to the contrary, that an applicant possesses the ability to properly supervise the proposed additional business entity for purposes of the application:
(1) The applicant to qualify an additional business owns 20% or more of the business to be qualified;
(2) The applicant to qualify an additional business is a W2 employee of the business to be qualified; or
(3) Other evidence of the means and methods utilized by the applicant to ensure control over the construction work of the proposed additional entity.
Rulemaking Authority 489.108, 489.119 FS Law Implemented 489.108, 489.119 FS History–New 5-2-12.
From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Gibbons, Michael
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 4:10 PM
To: 'Reese J. Henderson, Jr.'; Chris Cobb; lauriesams@comcast.net; 'White, Patrick G.'; 'Brian Solomon'; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
Qualifiers are not required to be employees or owners of the qualified business organization. They are required to have ultimate authority over all construction issues on projects where their license is used for a permit. I have assisted business organizations with Ch. 489 qualifiers who were neither owners nor employees.
Michael R. Gibbons (Biohttp://lowndes-law.com/our-people/michael-r-gibbons)
Shareholder
Lowndes, Drosdick, Doster, Kantor & Reed, P.A.
215 N. Eola Drive
Orlando, FL 32801
Phone: 407-418-6378
Fax: 407-843-4444
email: michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.commailto:michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.com
website: http://www.lowndes-law.comhttp://www.lowndes-law.com/
[cid:image001.jpg@01CF3C7E.D7ABA550]
From: Reese J. Henderson, Jr. [mailto:Reese.Henderson@gray-robinson.com]
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 3:51 PM
To: Chris Cobb; lauriesams@comcast.net; Gibbons, Michael; 'White, Patrick G.'; 'Brian Solomon'; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: RE: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
I agree with Chris – you have a bigger problem than WC here. You have potential aiding and abetting issues . . . .
From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Chris Cobb
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 3:38 PM
To: lauriesams@comcast.netmailto:lauriesams@comcast.net; Gibbons, Michael; 'White, Patrick G.'; 'Brian Solomon'; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
Also makes you wonder how the sister can qualify the company if she is not a member and not an employee……
[cid:image003.jpg@01CF3C7E.D7ABA550]
Christopher M. Cobb, Esq.
Board Certified in Construction Law
Jimerson & Cobb, P.A.
Business Litigation | Construction Law | Banking Law | Creditor’s Rights & AR Collection | Community Associations
Telephone: (904) 389-0050 | Facsimile: (904) 212-1269
ccobb@jimersoncobb.commailto:ccobb@jimersoncobb.com | JimersonCobb.comhttp://www.jimersoncobb.com/
Add to Contactshttp://www.jimersoncobb.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Christopher-M-Cobb.vcf | View Biographyhttp://www.jimersoncobb.com/attorneys/christopher-m-cobb/
From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org]mailto:[mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of lauriesams@comcast.netmailto:lauriesams@comcast.net
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 3:21 PM
To: Gibbons, Michael; 'White, Patrick G.'; 'Brian Solomon'; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
I believe everyone is way over thinking this. I think the issue is the sister (the one holding the license) does not have a workers comp exemption. To obtain a workers comp exemption you must own at least 10%. If its a single member LLC, your client would be the one with the exemption. She does not own any of the LLC, as such she cannot be exempt. He needs to either have her as a % owner and file for the 2 year exemption or he needs to get it for her.
Laurie B. Sams
Van Winkle & Sams, P.A.
3859 Bee Ridge Road, Suite 202
Sarasota, FL 34233
(941) 923-1685
fax (941) 923-0174
www.vwslaw.comhttp://www.vwslaw.com
Please Note: Our firm only accepts WIRES for closings.
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE: This transmittal may be a confidential attorney-client communication or may otherwise
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----- Original Message -----
From: Gibbons, Michaelmailto:Michael.Gibbons@lowndes-law.com
To: 'White, Patrick G.'mailto:PWhite@porterwright.com ; 'Brian Solomon'mailto:bsolomon@solomon-law.com ; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 2:50 PM
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
Thanks for the statutory cites Patrick. However, I’m not sure that resolves the issue. Ch. 489 simply requires the licensed contractor to comply with the WC insurance requirements of Ch. 440. Ch. 440 meanwhile expressly permits certain principal owned companies to be WC exempt and I am unaware of a provision that eliminates GC’s from taking advantage of this statutory exemption (which seems wrong and was basis for my original post). Based on the fact that I have encountered several licensed GC’s without WC coverage, I am assuming that DBPR does not require WC coverage as a condition of licensure. Apparently, DBPR only requires the contractor to comply with Ch. 440 which then allows the very small closely owned contractor to exempt itself from coverage.
Michael R. Gibbons (Biohttp://lowndes-law.com/our-people/michael-r-gibbons)
Shareholder
Lowndes, Drosdick, Doster, Kantor & Reed, P.A.
215 N. Eola Drive
Orlando, FL 32801
Phone: 407-418-6378
Fax: 407-843-4444
email: michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.commailto:michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.com
website: http://www.lowndes-law.comhttp://www.lowndes-law.com/
[cid:image004.jpg@01CF3C7E.D7ABA550]
From: White, Patrick G. [mailto:PWhite@porterwright.com]
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 2:17 PM
To: Gibbons, Michael; 'Brian Solomon'; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: RE: Local Licensing
Sounds like Pasco County has it almost right in that they wouldn’t be able to issue a BP, see Secs. 489.113 (4)(c) 489.114, so why grant the license! They wouldn’t here in Collier either-
(c) The local government may also deny issuance of, or may suspend, any outstanding building permit where a contractor fails or refuses to provide proof of public liability and property damage insurance coverage as required by s. 489.115<index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0400-0499/0489/Sections/0489.115.html>(5) and workers’ compensation insurance coverage as required by s. 489.114<index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0400-0499/0489/Sections/0489.114.html>
Patrick G. White | Biohttp://www.porterwright.com/patrick_white/ | Porter Wright Morris & Arthur LLPhttp://www.porterwright.com | 9132 Strada Place, 3rd Floor | Naples, FL 34108
Direct: 239-593-2963 | Mobile: 239-784-5173 | Fax: 239-593-2990 | Toll Free: 800-876-7962 | pwhite@porterwright.commailto:pwhite@porterwright.com
Florida Bar Board Certified in City, County, and Local Government Law
porterwright
From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Gibbons, Michael
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 1:28 PM
To: 'Brian Solomon'; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
I have not. And sorry for hijacking your post, Brian, but I have occasionally run into the WC exempt GC and it always seemed wrong to me. The GC is supposed to be the “statutory employer” under Ch. 440 if, as happens, an injured subcontractor employee is not covered by the workers compensation policy of the subcontractor employer. When the GC itself is exempt, that safety net is lost. It’s been a while since I read the CILB FAC governing licensing requirements but it used to mandate a minimum amount of GL insurance coverage and compliance with workers compensation insurance coverage requirements. I realize that some GC entities are small enough to qualify as WC exempt but I’m surprised that neither Ch. 440 nor FAC apparently expressly prohibits a General Contractor from operating without workers compensation coverage.
Michael R. Gibbons (Biohttp://lowndes-law.com/our-people/michael-r-gibbons)
Shareholder
Lowndes, Drosdick, Doster, Kantor & Reed, P.A.
215 N. Eola Drive
Orlando, FL 32801
Phone: 407-418-6378
Fax: 407-843-4444
email: michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.commailto:michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.com
website: http://www.lowndes-law.comhttp://www.lowndes-law.com/
[cid:image004.jpg@01CF3C7E.D7ABA550]
From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Brian Solomon
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 12:51 PM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
My client is a single member LLC with a certificate of workers compensation insurance exemption. The company is qualified as a general contractor by his sister, who does not work for the company, she only qualifies the company. Pasco County is refusing to give my client a county license because the qualifier doesn’t have proof of workers compensation insurance.
Has anyone run into this situation?
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Reese J. Henderson, Jr.
Board Certified Construction Attorney
GrayRobinson, P.A.
50 North Laura Street, Suite 1100
Jacksonville, FL 32202
Main: 904-598-9929 | Fax: 904-598-9109
Email: reese.henderson@gray-robinson.commailto:reese.henderson@gray-robinson.com
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I vote Arnie’s response as the best (or at least the most entertaining).
Thanks for the laugh.
From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Arnold D. Tritt, Jr.
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 3:43 PM
To: Chris Cobb; lauriesams@comcast.net; Gibbons, Michael; White, Patrick G.; Brian Solomon; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
You people obviously don’t have kin folk in the construction industry from Georgia (or Appalachia) where your sister can be your aunt, your cousin and your qualifying agent. No branches on the family tree if you get my drift.
From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Chris Cobb
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 3:38 PM
To: lauriesams@comcast.netmailto:lauriesams@comcast.net; Gibbons, Michael; 'White, Patrick G.'; 'Brian Solomon'; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
Also makes you wonder how the sister can qualify the company if she is not a member and not an employee……
[cid:image002.jpg@01CF3C7F.F2BD2930]
Christopher M. Cobb, Esq.
Board Certified in Construction Law
Jimerson & Cobb, P.A.
Business Litigation | Construction Law | Banking Law | Creditor’s Rights & AR Collection | Community Associations
Telephone: (904) 389-0050 | Facsimile: (904) 212-1269
ccobb@jimersoncobb.commailto:ccobb@jimersoncobb.com | JimersonCobb.comhttp://www.jimersoncobb.com/
Add to Contactshttp://www.jimersoncobb.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Christopher-M-Cobb.vcf | View Biographyhttp://www.jimersoncobb.com/attorneys/christopher-m-cobb/
From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of lauriesams@comcast.netmailto:lauriesams@comcast.net
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 3:21 PM
To: Gibbons, Michael; 'White, Patrick G.'; 'Brian Solomon'; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
I believe everyone is way over thinking this. I think the issue is the sister (the one holding the license) does not have a workers comp exemption. To obtain a workers comp exemption you must own at least 10%. If its a single member LLC, your client would be the one with the exemption. She does not own any of the LLC, as such she cannot be exempt. He needs to either have her as a % owner and file for the 2 year exemption or he needs to get it for her.
Laurie B. Sams
Van Winkle & Sams, P.A.
3859 Bee Ridge Road, Suite 202
Sarasota, FL 34233
(941) 923-1685
fax (941) 923-0174
www.vwslaw.comhttp://www.vwslaw.com
Please Note: Our firm only accepts WIRES for closings.
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE: This transmittal may be a confidential attorney-client communication or may otherwise
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----- Original Message -----
From: Gibbons, Michaelmailto:Michael.Gibbons@lowndes-law.com
To: 'White, Patrick G.'mailto:PWhite@porterwright.com ; 'Brian Solomon'mailto:bsolomon@solomon-law.com ; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 2:50 PM
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
Thanks for the statutory cites Patrick. However, I’m not sure that resolves the issue. Ch. 489 simply requires the licensed contractor to comply with the WC insurance requirements of Ch. 440. Ch. 440 meanwhile expressly permits certain principal owned companies to be WC exempt and I am unaware of a provision that eliminates GC’s from taking advantage of this statutory exemption (which seems wrong and was basis for my original post). Based on the fact that I have encountered several licensed GC’s without WC coverage, I am assuming that DBPR does not require WC coverage as a condition of licensure. Apparently, DBPR only requires the contractor to comply with Ch. 440 which then allows the very small closely owned contractor to exempt itself from coverage.
Michael R. Gibbons (Biohttp://lowndes-law.com/our-people/michael-r-gibbons)
Shareholder
Lowndes, Drosdick, Doster, Kantor & Reed, P.A.
215 N. Eola Drive
Orlando, FL 32801
Phone: 407-418-6378
Fax: 407-843-4444
email: michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.commailto:michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.com
website: http://www.lowndes-law.comhttp://www.lowndes-law.com/
[cid:image003.jpg@01CF3C7F.F2BD2930]
From: White, Patrick G. [mailto:PWhite@porterwright.com]
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 2:17 PM
To: Gibbons, Michael; 'Brian Solomon'; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: RE: Local Licensing
Sounds like Pasco County has it almost right in that they wouldn’t be able to issue a BP, see Secs. 489.113 (4)(c) 489.114, so why grant the license! They wouldn’t here in Collier either-
(c) The local government may also deny issuance of, or may suspend, any outstanding building permit where a contractor fails or refuses to provide proof of public liability and property damage insurance coverage as required by s. 489.115<index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0400-0499/0489/Sections/0489.115.html>(5) and workers’ compensation insurance coverage as required by s. 489.114<index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0400-0499/0489/Sections/0489.114.html>
Patrick G. White | Biohttp://www.porterwright.com/patrick_white/ | Porter Wright Morris & Arthur LLPhttp://www.porterwright.com | 9132 Strada Place, 3rd Floor | Naples, FL 34108
Direct: 239-593-2963 | Mobile: 239-784-5173 | Fax: 239-593-2990 | Toll Free: 800-876-7962 | pwhite@porterwright.commailto:pwhite@porterwright.com
Florida Bar Board Certified in City, County, and Local Government Law
porterwright
From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Gibbons, Michael
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 1:28 PM
To: 'Brian Solomon'; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
I have not. And sorry for hijacking your post, Brian, but I have occasionally run into the WC exempt GC and it always seemed wrong to me. The GC is supposed to be the “statutory employer” under Ch. 440 if, as happens, an injured subcontractor employee is not covered by the workers compensation policy of the subcontractor employer. When the GC itself is exempt, that safety net is lost. It’s been a while since I read the CILB FAC governing licensing requirements but it used to mandate a minimum amount of GL insurance coverage and compliance with workers compensation insurance coverage requirements. I realize that some GC entities are small enough to qualify as WC exempt but I’m surprised that neither Ch. 440 nor FAC apparently expressly prohibits a General Contractor from operating without workers compensation coverage.
Michael R. Gibbons (Biohttp://lowndes-law.com/our-people/michael-r-gibbons)
Shareholder
Lowndes, Drosdick, Doster, Kantor & Reed, P.A.
215 N. Eola Drive
Orlando, FL 32801
Phone: 407-418-6378
Fax: 407-843-4444
email: michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.commailto:michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.com
website: http://www.lowndes-law.comhttp://www.lowndes-law.com/
[cid:image003.jpg@01CF3C7F.F2BD2930]
From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Brian Solomon
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 12:51 PM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
My client is a single member LLC with a certificate of workers compensation insurance exemption. The company is qualified as a general contractor by his sister, who does not work for the company, she only qualifies the company. Pasco County is refusing to give my client a county license because the qualifier doesn’t have proof of workers compensation insurance.
Has anyone run into this situation?
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Gary L. Brown
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Reese:
I wish I had an answer for you reflecting great legal expertise. In my experience over a year ago helping a client with licensure, the fact that he was not an employee did not become an issue. The form requires the listing of all persons with ownership interest. The qualifier did not show up there. The form also doesn’t require you to list “employment status” and we didn’t. As I said, the form does require you obviously to list the name of the “appointed” person, which is the qualifier. Significantly, the DBPR form doesn’t say provide the name of the “employee” designated as qualifier.
As Hardy noted in a recent post, the excerpted language from FAC that started this only applies to qualifiers seeking to qualify an ADDITIONAL business organization. In my case, the qualifier was simply doing a Change of Status moving his license from one organization to a new organization and so did not require the personal appearance before the Board that qualifying more than one organization does.
Michael R. Gibbons (Biohttp://lowndes-law.com/our-people/michael-r-gibbons)
Shareholder
Lowndes, Drosdick, Doster, Kantor & Reed, P.A.
215 N. Eola Drive
Orlando, FL 32801
Phone: 407-418-6378
Fax: 407-843-4444
email: michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.commailto:michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.com
website: http://www.lowndes-law.comhttp://www.lowndes-law.com/
[cid:image001.jpg@01CF3C80.02C7C240]
From: Reese J. Henderson, Jr. [mailto:Reese.Henderson@gray-robinson.com]
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 4:30 PM
To: Gibbons, Michael; 'Chris Cobb'; lauriesams@comcast.net; 'White, Patrick G.'; 'Brian Solomon'; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: RE: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
Michael: I’m not sure what your statistics are based on, but I happen to have assisted a number of companies get qualified and invariably, for all practical purposes, the qualifier needed to be either a W-2 employee or an owner. Anything less than that kept getting kicked back by CILB. We were told we could go before the board without it, but our chances were basically nil. It would greatly interest me to hear how someone else got around that.
From: Gibbons, Michael [mailto:Michael.Gibbons@lowndes-law.com]
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 4:23 PM
To: 'Chris Cobb'; Reese J. Henderson, Jr.; lauriesams@comcast.netmailto:lauriesams@comcast.net; 'White, Patrick G.'; 'Brian Solomon'; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: RE: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
The DBPR Form of licensure application simply asks for the name of the person “appointed” by the organization to be the qualifying agent. It is not that unusual to have a qualifier who is neither employee nor owner.
Michael R. Gibbons (Biohttp://lowndes-law.com/our-people/michael-r-gibbons)
Shareholder
Lowndes, Drosdick, Doster, Kantor & Reed, P.A.
215 N. Eola Drive
Orlando, FL 32801
Phone: 407-418-6378
Fax: 407-843-4444
email: michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.commailto:michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.com
website: http://www.lowndes-law.comhttp://www.lowndes-law.com/
[cid:image009.jpg@01CF3C80.00FC9F30]
From: Chris Cobb [mailto:ccobb@jimersoncobb.com]mailto:[mailto:ccobb@jimersoncobb.com]
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 4:18 PM
To: Gibbons, Michael; 'Reese J. Henderson, Jr.'; lauriesams@comcast.netmailto:lauriesams@comcast.net; 'White, Patrick G.'; 'Brian Solomon'; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: RE: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
6G4-15.0024 states - Documentation of one or more of the following:
(1) 20% or more ownership of the business to be qualified;
(2) W2 employee
(3) Other evidence of the means and methods utilized by the applicant to ensure control over the construction work of the proposed entity.
It is hard to establish number 3 without having number 1 and/or 2. But I will concede that it may be possible, but is certainly not the norm .
[cid:image004.jpg@01CF3C80.02C7C240]
Christopher M. Cobb, Esq.
Board Certified in Construction Law
Jimerson & Cobb, P.A.
Business Litigation | Construction Law | Banking Law | Creditor’s Rights & AR Collection | Community Associations
Telephone: (904) 389-0050 | Facsimile: (904) 212-1269
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From: Gibbons, Michael [mailto:Michael.Gibbons@lowndes-law.com]
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 4:10 PM
To: 'Reese J. Henderson, Jr.'; Chris Cobb; lauriesams@comcast.netmailto:lauriesams@comcast.net; 'White, Patrick G.'; 'Brian Solomon'; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: RE: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
Qualifiers are not required to be employees or owners of the qualified business organization. They are required to have ultimate authority over all construction issues on projects where their license is used for a permit. I have assisted business organizations with Ch. 489 qualifiers who were neither owners nor employees.
Michael R. Gibbons (Biohttp://lowndes-law.com/our-people/michael-r-gibbons)
Shareholder
Lowndes, Drosdick, Doster, Kantor & Reed, P.A.
215 N. Eola Drive
Orlando, FL 32801
Phone: 407-418-6378
Fax: 407-843-4444
email: michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.commailto:michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.com
website: http://www.lowndes-law.comhttp://www.lowndes-law.com/
[cid:image009.jpg@01CF3C80.00FC9F30]
From: Reese J. Henderson, Jr. [mailto:Reese.Henderson@gray-robinson.com]
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 3:51 PM
To: Chris Cobb; lauriesams@comcast.netmailto:lauriesams@comcast.net; Gibbons, Michael; 'White, Patrick G.'; 'Brian Solomon'; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: RE: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
I agree with Chris – you have a bigger problem than WC here. You have potential aiding and abetting issues . . . .
From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Chris Cobb
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 3:38 PM
To: lauriesams@comcast.netmailto:lauriesams@comcast.net; Gibbons, Michael; 'White, Patrick G.'; 'Brian Solomon'; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
Also makes you wonder how the sister can qualify the company if she is not a member and not an employee……
[cid:image005.jpg@01CF3C80.02C7C240]
Christopher M. Cobb, Esq.
Board Certified in Construction Law
Jimerson & Cobb, P.A.
Business Litigation | Construction Law | Banking Law | Creditor’s Rights & AR Collection | Community Associations
Telephone: (904) 389-0050 | Facsimile: (904) 212-1269
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From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org]mailto:[mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of lauriesams@comcast.netmailto:lauriesams@comcast.net
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 3:21 PM
To: Gibbons, Michael; 'White, Patrick G.'; 'Brian Solomon'; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
I believe everyone is way over thinking this. I think the issue is the sister (the one holding the license) does not have a workers comp exemption. To obtain a workers comp exemption you must own at least 10%. If its a single member LLC, your client would be the one with the exemption. She does not own any of the LLC, as such she cannot be exempt. He needs to either have her as a % owner and file for the 2 year exemption or he needs to get it for her.
Laurie B. Sams
Van Winkle & Sams, P.A.
3859 Bee Ridge Road, Suite 202
Sarasota, FL 34233
(941) 923-1685
fax (941) 923-0174
www.vwslaw.comhttp://www.vwslaw.com
Please Note: Our firm only accepts WIRES for closings.
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----- Original Message -----
From: Gibbons, Michaelmailto:Michael.Gibbons@lowndes-law.com
To: 'White, Patrick G.'mailto:PWhite@porterwright.com ; 'Brian Solomon'mailto:bsolomon@solomon-law.com ; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 2:50 PM
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
Thanks for the statutory cites Patrick. However, I’m not sure that resolves the issue. Ch. 489 simply requires the licensed contractor to comply with the WC insurance requirements of Ch. 440. Ch. 440 meanwhile expressly permits certain principal owned companies to be WC exempt and I am unaware of a provision that eliminates GC’s from taking advantage of this statutory exemption (which seems wrong and was basis for my original post). Based on the fact that I have encountered several licensed GC’s without WC coverage, I am assuming that DBPR does not require WC coverage as a condition of licensure. Apparently, DBPR only requires the contractor to comply with Ch. 440 which then allows the very small closely owned contractor to exempt itself from coverage.
Michael R. Gibbons (Biohttp://lowndes-law.com/our-people/michael-r-gibbons)
Shareholder
Lowndes, Drosdick, Doster, Kantor & Reed, P.A.
215 N. Eola Drive
Orlando, FL 32801
Phone: 407-418-6378
Fax: 407-843-4444
email: michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.commailto:michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.com
website: http://www.lowndes-law.comhttp://www.lowndes-law.com/
[cid:image013.jpg@01CF3C80.00FC9F30]
From: White, Patrick G. [mailto:PWhite@porterwright.com]
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 2:17 PM
To: Gibbons, Michael; 'Brian Solomon'; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: RE: Local Licensing
Sounds like Pasco County has it almost right in that they wouldn’t be able to issue a BP, see Secs. 489.113 (4)(c) 489.114, so why grant the license! They wouldn’t here in Collier either-
(c) The local government may also deny issuance of, or may suspend, any outstanding building permit where a contractor fails or refuses to provide proof of public liability and property damage insurance coverage as required by s. 489.115<index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0400-0499/0489/Sections/0489.115.html>(5) and workers’ compensation insurance coverage as required by s. 489.114<index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0400-0499/0489/Sections/0489.114.html>
Patrick G. White | Biohttp://www.porterwright.com/patrick_white/ | Porter Wright Morris & Arthur LLPhttp://www.porterwright.com | 9132 Strada Place, 3rd Floor | Naples, FL 34108
Direct: 239-593-2963 | Mobile: 239-784-5173 | Fax: 239-593-2990 | Toll Free: 800-876-7962 | pwhite@porterwright.commailto:pwhite@porterwright.com
Florida Bar Board Certified in City, County, and Local Government Law
porterwright
From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Gibbons, Michael
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 1:28 PM
To: 'Brian Solomon'; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
I have not. And sorry for hijacking your post, Brian, but I have occasionally run into the WC exempt GC and it always seemed wrong to me. The GC is supposed to be the “statutory employer” under Ch. 440 if, as happens, an injured subcontractor employee is not covered by the workers compensation policy of the subcontractor employer. When the GC itself is exempt, that safety net is lost. It’s been a while since I read the CILB FAC governing licensing requirements but it used to mandate a minimum amount of GL insurance coverage and compliance with workers compensation insurance coverage requirements. I realize that some GC entities are small enough to qualify as WC exempt but I’m surprised that neither Ch. 440 nor FAC apparently expressly prohibits a General Contractor from operating without workers compensation coverage.
Michael R. Gibbons (Biohttp://lowndes-law.com/our-people/michael-r-gibbons)
Shareholder
Lowndes, Drosdick, Doster, Kantor & Reed, P.A.
215 N. Eola Drive
Orlando, FL 32801
Phone: 407-418-6378
Fax: 407-843-4444
email: michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.commailto:michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.com
website: http://www.lowndes-law.comhttp://www.lowndes-law.com/
[cid:image013.jpg@01CF3C80.00FC9F30]
From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Brian Solomon
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 12:51 PM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
My client is a single member LLC with a certificate of workers compensation insurance exemption. The company is qualified as a general contractor by his sister, who does not work for the company, she only qualifies the company. Pasco County is refusing to give my client a county license because the qualifier doesn’t have proof of workers compensation insurance.
Has anyone run into this situation?
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Reese J. Henderson, Jr.
Board Certified Construction Attorney
GrayRobinson, P.A.
50 North Laura Street, Suite 1100
Jacksonville, FL 32202
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Reese J. Henderson, Jr.
Board Certified Construction Attorney
GrayRobinson, P.A.
50 North Laura Street, Suite 1100
Jacksonville, FL 32202
Main: 904-598-9929 | Fax: 904-598-9109
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Many companies have qualifiers that are not owners. Pretty standard in large corporations.
But, I can see the county wondering in this case, “Are you sure the qualifier is not just renting her license out to her brother?”
Jeffrey L. Price, Esq.
Florida Bar Board Certified - Construction Law
Niesen|Price|Worthy|Campo, PA
5216 SW 91st Drive Gainesville, FL 32608
Ph (352) 373-9031 Fax (352) 373-9099
http://npw-law.com http://npw-law.com/
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From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Gibbons, Michael
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 4:10 PM
To: 'Reese J. Henderson, Jr.'; Chris Cobb; lauriesams@comcast.net; 'White, Patrick G.'; 'Brian Solomon'; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
Qualifiers are not required to be employees or owners of the qualified business organization. They are required to have ultimate authority over all construction issues on projects where their license is used for a permit. I have assisted business organizations with Ch. 489 qualifiers who were neither owners nor employees.
Michael R. Gibbons ( http://lowndes-law.com/our-people/michael-r-gibbons Bio)
Shareholder
Lowndes, Drosdick, Doster, Kantor & Reed, P.A.
215 N. Eola Drive
Orlando, FL 32801
Phone: 407-418-6378
Fax: 407-843-4444
email: mailto:michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.com michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.com
website: http://www.lowndes-law.com/ http://www.lowndes-law.com
From: Reese J. Henderson, Jr. [mailto:Reese.Henderson@gray-robinson.com]
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 3:51 PM
To: Chris Cobb; lauriesams@comcast.net; Gibbons, Michael; 'White, Patrick G.'; 'Brian Solomon'; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: RE: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
I agree with Chris – you have a bigger problem than WC here. You have potential aiding and abetting issues . . . .
From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Chris Cobb
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 3:38 PM
To: lauriesams@comcast.net; Gibbons, Michael; 'White, Patrick G.'; 'Brian Solomon'; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
Also makes you wonder how the sister can qualify the company if she is not a member and not an employee……
Christopher M. Cobb, Esq.
Board Certified in Construction Law
Jimerson & Cobb, P.A.
Business Litigation | Construction Law | Banking Law | Creditor’s Rights & AR Collection | Community Associations
Telephone: (904) 389-0050 | Facsimile: (904) 212-1269
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From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of lauriesams@comcast.net
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 3:21 PM
To: Gibbons, Michael; 'White, Patrick G.'; 'Brian Solomon'; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
I believe everyone is way over thinking this. I think the issue is the sister (the one holding the license) does not have a workers comp exemption. To obtain a workers comp exemption you must own at least 10%. If its a single member LLC, your client would be the one with the exemption. She does not own any of the LLC, as such she cannot be exempt. He needs to either have her as a % owner and file for the 2 year exemption or he needs to get it for her.
Laurie B. Sams
Van Winkle & Sams, P.A.
3859 Bee Ridge Road, Suite 202
Sarasota, FL 34233
(941) 923-1685
fax (941) 923-0174
www.vwslaw.com
Please Note: Our firm only accepts WIRES for closings.
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----- Original Message -----
From: Gibbons, Michael mailto:Michael.Gibbons@lowndes-law.com
To: 'White, Patrick G.' mailto:PWhite@porterwright.com ; 'Brian Solomon' mailto:bsolomon@solomon-law.com ; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 2:50 PM
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
Thanks for the statutory cites Patrick. However, I’m not sure that resolves the issue. Ch. 489 simply requires the licensed contractor to comply with the WC insurance requirements of Ch. 440. Ch. 440 meanwhile expressly permits certain principal owned companies to be WC exempt and I am unaware of a provision that eliminates GC’s from taking advantage of this statutory exemption (which seems wrong and was basis for my original post). Based on the fact that I have encountered several licensed GC’s without WC coverage, I am assuming that DBPR does not require WC coverage as a condition of licensure. Apparently, DBPR only requires the contractor to comply with Ch. 440 which then allows the very small closely owned contractor to exempt itself from coverage.
Michael R. Gibbons ( http://lowndes-law.com/our-people/michael-r-gibbons Bio)
Shareholder
Lowndes, Drosdick, Doster, Kantor & Reed, P.A.
215 N. Eola Drive
Orlando, FL 32801
Phone: 407-418-6378
Fax: 407-843-4444
email: mailto:michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.com michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.com
website: http://www.lowndes-law.com/ http://www.lowndes-law.com
From: White, Patrick G. [mailto:PWhite@porterwright.com]
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 2:17 PM
To: Gibbons, Michael; 'Brian Solomon'; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: RE: Local Licensing
Sounds like Pasco County has it almost right in that they wouldn’t be able to issue a BP, see Secs. 489.113 (4)(c) 489.114, so why grant the license! They wouldn’t here in Collier either-
(c) The local government may also deny issuance of, or may suspend, any outstanding building permit where a contractor fails or refuses to provide proof of public liability and property damage insurance coverage as required by s. 489.115(5) and workers’ compensation insurance coverage as required by s. 489.114
Patrick G. White | http://www.porterwright.com/patrick_white/ Bio | http://www.porterwright.com Porter Wright Morris & Arthur LLP | 9132 Strada Place, 3rd Floor | Naples, FL 34108
Direct: 239-593-2963 | Mobile: 239-784-5173 | Fax: 239-593-2990 | Toll Free: 800-876-7962 | pwhite@porterwright.com
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porterwright
From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Gibbons, Michael
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 1:28 PM
To: 'Brian Solomon'; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
I have not. And sorry for hijacking your post, Brian, but I have occasionally run into the WC exempt GC and it always seemed wrong to me. The GC is supposed to be the “statutory employer” under Ch. 440 if, as happens, an injured subcontractor employee is not covered by the workers compensation policy of the subcontractor employer. When the GC itself is exempt, that safety net is lost. It’s been a while since I read the CILB FAC governing licensing requirements but it used to mandate a minimum amount of GL insurance coverage and compliance with workers compensation insurance coverage requirements. I realize that some GC entities are small enough to qualify as WC exempt but I’m surprised that neither Ch. 440 nor FAC apparently expressly prohibits a General Contractor from operating without workers compensation coverage.
Michael R. Gibbons ( http://lowndes-law.com/our-people/michael-r-gibbons Bio)
Shareholder
Lowndes, Drosdick, Doster, Kantor & Reed, P.A.
215 N. Eola Drive
Orlando, FL 32801
Phone: 407-418-6378
Fax: 407-843-4444
email: mailto:michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.com michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.com
website: http://www.lowndes-law.com/ http://www.lowndes-law.com
From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Brian Solomon
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 12:51 PM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
My client is a single member LLC with a certificate of workers compensation insurance exemption. The company is qualified as a general contractor by his sister, who does not work for the company, she only qualifies the company. Pasco County is refusing to give my client a county license because the qualifier doesn’t have proof of workers compensation insurance.
Has anyone run into this situation?
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Reese J. Henderson, Jr.
Board Certified Construction Attorney
GrayRobinson, P.A.
50 North Laura Street, Suite 1100
Jacksonville, FL 32202
Main: 904-598-9929 | Fax: 904-598-9109
Email: reese.henderson@gray-robinson.com
http://gray-robinson.com/ GRAY | ROBINSON
ATTORNEYS AT LAW http://www.gray-robinson.com/
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No proof of ownership is required for the first company qualified, but if a contractor attempts to qualify a second company, the contractor has to appear before the CILB and it will deny the application if there isn’t proof of 20% ownership or W2 employee status.
Charles B. Hernicz, Esq.
Board Certified in Construction Law by The Florida Bar
Hernicz Legal Services, P.L.
15854 Bent Creek Road
Wellington, FL 33414
Telephone: (561) 753-7511
Facsimile: (561) 753-7082
Chernicz@HerniczLegal.com
From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Chris Cobb
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 4:18 PM
To: Gibbons, Michael; 'Reese J. Henderson, Jr.'; lauriesams@comcast.net; 'White, Patrick G.'; 'Brian Solomon'; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
6G4-15.0024 states - Documentation of one or more of the following:
(1) 20% or more ownership of the business to be qualified;
(2) W2 employee
(3) Other evidence of the means and methods utilized by the applicant to ensure control over the construction work of the proposed entity.
It is hard to establish number 3 without having number 1 and/or 2. But I will concede that it may be possible, but is certainly not the norm .
Christopher M. Cobb, Esq.
Board Certified in Construction Law
Jimerson & Cobb, P.A.
Business Litigation | Construction Law | Banking Law | Creditor’s Rights & AR Collection | Community Associations
Telephone: (904) 389-0050 | Facsimile: (904) 212-1269
ccobb@jimersoncobb.com | JimersonCobb.com http://www.jimersoncobb.com/
Add to Contacts http://www.jimersoncobb.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Christopher-M-Cobb.vcf | View Biography http://www.jimersoncobb.com/attorneys/christopher-m-cobb/
From: Gibbons, Michael [mailto:Michael.Gibbons@lowndes-law.com]
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 4:10 PM
To: 'Reese J. Henderson, Jr.'; Chris Cobb; lauriesams@comcast.net; 'White, Patrick G.'; 'Brian Solomon'; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: RE: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
Qualifiers are not required to be employees or owners of the qualified business organization. They are required to have ultimate authority over all construction issues on projects where their license is used for a permit. I have assisted business organizations with Ch. 489 qualifiers who were neither owners nor employees.
Michael R. Gibbons ( http://lowndes-law.com/our-people/michael-r-gibbons Bio)
Shareholder
Lowndes, Drosdick, Doster, Kantor & Reed, P.A.
215 N. Eola Drive
Orlando, FL 32801
Phone: 407-418-6378
Fax: 407-843-4444
email: mailto:michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.com michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.com
website: http://www.lowndes-law.com/ http://www.lowndes-law.com
From: Reese J. Henderson, Jr. [mailto:Reese.Henderson@gray-robinson.com]
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 3:51 PM
To: Chris Cobb; lauriesams@comcast.net; Gibbons, Michael; 'White, Patrick G.'; 'Brian Solomon'; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: RE: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
I agree with Chris – you have a bigger problem than WC here. You have potential aiding and abetting issues . . . .
From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Chris Cobb
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 3:38 PM
To: lauriesams@comcast.net; Gibbons, Michael; 'White, Patrick G.'; 'Brian Solomon'; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
Also makes you wonder how the sister can qualify the company if she is not a member and not an employee……
Christopher M. Cobb, Esq.
Board Certified in Construction Law
Jimerson & Cobb, P.A.
Business Litigation | Construction Law | Banking Law | Creditor’s Rights & AR Collection | Community Associations
Telephone: (904) 389-0050 | Facsimile: (904) 212-1269
ccobb@jimersoncobb.com | JimersonCobb.com http://www.jimersoncobb.com/
Add to Contacts http://www.jimersoncobb.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Christopher-M-Cobb.vcf | View Biography http://www.jimersoncobb.com/attorneys/christopher-m-cobb/
From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of lauriesams@comcast.net
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 3:21 PM
To: Gibbons, Michael; 'White, Patrick G.'; 'Brian Solomon'; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
I believe everyone is way over thinking this. I think the issue is the sister (the one holding the license) does not have a workers comp exemption. To obtain a workers comp exemption you must own at least 10%. If its a single member LLC, your client would be the one with the exemption. She does not own any of the LLC, as such she cannot be exempt. He needs to either have her as a % owner and file for the 2 year exemption or he needs to get it for her.
Laurie B. Sams
Van Winkle & Sams, P.A.
3859 Bee Ridge Road, Suite 202
Sarasota, FL 34233
(941) 923-1685
fax (941) 923-0174
www.vwslaw.com
Please Note: Our firm only accepts WIRES for closings.
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----- Original Message -----
From: Gibbons, Michael mailto:Michael.Gibbons@lowndes-law.com
To: 'White, Patrick G.' mailto:PWhite@porterwright.com ; 'Brian Solomon' mailto:bsolomon@solomon-law.com ; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 2:50 PM
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
Thanks for the statutory cites Patrick. However, I’m not sure that resolves the issue. Ch. 489 simply requires the licensed contractor to comply with the WC insurance requirements of Ch. 440. Ch. 440 meanwhile expressly permits certain principal owned companies to be WC exempt and I am unaware of a provision that eliminates GC’s from taking advantage of this statutory exemption (which seems wrong and was basis for my original post). Based on the fact that I have encountered several licensed GC’s without WC coverage, I am assuming that DBPR does not require WC coverage as a condition of licensure. Apparently, DBPR only requires the contractor to comply with Ch. 440 which then allows the very small closely owned contractor to exempt itself from coverage.
Michael R. Gibbons ( http://lowndes-law.com/our-people/michael-r-gibbons Bio)
Shareholder
Lowndes, Drosdick, Doster, Kantor & Reed, P.A.
215 N. Eola Drive
Orlando, FL 32801
Phone: 407-418-6378
Fax: 407-843-4444
email: mailto:michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.com michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.com
website: http://www.lowndes-law.com/ http://www.lowndes-law.com
From: White, Patrick G. [mailto:PWhite@porterwright.com]
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 2:17 PM
To: Gibbons, Michael; 'Brian Solomon'; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: RE: Local Licensing
Sounds like Pasco County has it almost right in that they wouldn’t be able to issue a BP, see Secs. 489.113 (4)(c) 489.114, so why grant the license! They wouldn’t here in Collier either-
(c) The local government may also deny issuance of, or may suspend, any outstanding building permit where a contractor fails or refuses to provide proof of public liability and property damage insurance coverage as required by s. 489.115(5) and workers’ compensation insurance coverage as required by s. 489.114
Patrick G. White | http://www.porterwright.com/patrick_white/ Bio | http://www.porterwright.com Porter Wright Morris & Arthur LLP | 9132 Strada Place, 3rd Floor | Naples, FL 34108
Direct: 239-593-2963 | Mobile: 239-784-5173 | Fax: 239-593-2990 | Toll Free: 800-876-7962 | pwhite@porterwright.com
Florida Bar Board Certified in City, County, and Local Government Law
porterwright
From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Gibbons, Michael
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 1:28 PM
To: 'Brian Solomon'; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
I have not. And sorry for hijacking your post, Brian, but I have occasionally run into the WC exempt GC and it always seemed wrong to me. The GC is supposed to be the “statutory employer” under Ch. 440 if, as happens, an injured subcontractor employee is not covered by the workers compensation policy of the subcontractor employer. When the GC itself is exempt, that safety net is lost. It’s been a while since I read the CILB FAC governing licensing requirements but it used to mandate a minimum amount of GL insurance coverage and compliance with workers compensation insurance coverage requirements. I realize that some GC entities are small enough to qualify as WC exempt but I’m surprised that neither Ch. 440 nor FAC apparently expressly prohibits a General Contractor from operating without workers compensation coverage.
Michael R. Gibbons ( http://lowndes-law.com/our-people/michael-r-gibbons Bio)
Shareholder
Lowndes, Drosdick, Doster, Kantor & Reed, P.A.
215 N. Eola Drive
Orlando, FL 32801
Phone: 407-418-6378
Fax: 407-843-4444
email: mailto:michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.com michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.com
website: http://www.lowndes-law.com/ http://www.lowndes-law.com
From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Brian Solomon
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 12:51 PM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
My client is a single member LLC with a certificate of workers compensation insurance exemption. The company is qualified as a general contractor by his sister, who does not work for the company, she only qualifies the company. Pasco County is refusing to give my client a county license because the qualifier doesn’t have proof of workers compensation insurance.
Has anyone run into this situation?
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Reese J. Henderson, Jr.
Board Certified Construction Attorney
GrayRobinson, P.A.
50 North Laura Street, Suite 1100
Jacksonville, FL 32202
Main: 904-598-9929 | Fax: 904-598-9109
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Michael,
You are certainly correct about the form for the QA. I also note that if the QA ceases to be ”affiliated” with the qualified business then the CILB must be notified. So if you have done it, then it must be do-able.
However, note the following from the statute:
An application for registration or certification to qualify a business organization must include an affidavit on a form provided by the board attesting that the applicant has final approval authority for all construction work performed by the business organization and that the applicant has final approval authority on all business matters, including contracts, specifications, checks, drafts, or payments, regardless of the form of payment, made by the business organization, except where a financially responsible officer is approved.
While the CILB may grant the license with a non-officer as a QA being “affiliated” I question whether if challenged that arrangement would not be seen to be a ruse where the QA does not have the authority to do what the statute says. In theory it can take place by agreement. I would be concerned whether the QA actually meets what the law requires without being an officer. As I said, in theory it can be done by agreement.
And what about the business acumen of a “contractor” not getting workers comp coverage on a person who really does what a QA is required to do?
Sincerely,
Larry R. Leiby, Esq.
Malka & Kravitz, P.A.
1300 Sawgrass Corp. Pkwy., Suite 100
Ft. Lauderdale, FL 33323
Phone: 954-895-9198 Assistant: 954-514-0984
Fax: 954-514-0985 e-mail: leiby@mkpalaw.com
Board Certified in Construction Law
Fla. Supreme Court Certified Circuit Court Civil Mediator and Arbitrator
IMI Certified Mediator
Fellow, College of Commercial Arbitrators
Member, Leiby Alexander Brandt ADR Group, LLC
Member, JAMS Global Engineering and Construction Panel
Member, National Academy of Distinguished Neutrals
[cid:image001.jpg@01CF3C81.B74B3200]
From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Gibbons, Michael
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 4:23 PM
To: 'Chris Cobb'; 'Reese J. Henderson, Jr.'; lauriesams@comcast.net; 'White, Patrick G.'; 'Brian Solomon'; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
The DBPR Form of licensure application simply asks for the name of the person “appointed” by the organization to be the qualifying agent. It is not that unusual to have a qualifier who is neither employee nor owner.
Michael R. Gibbons (Biohttp://lowndes-law.com/our-people/michael-r-gibbons)
Shareholder
Lowndes, Drosdick, Doster, Kantor & Reed, P.A.
215 N. Eola Drive
Orlando, FL 32801
Phone: 407-418-6378
Fax: 407-843-4444
email: michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.commailto:michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.com
website: http://www.lowndes-law.comhttp://www.lowndes-law.com/
[cid:image004.jpg@01CF3C81.B74B3200]
From: Chris Cobb [mailto:ccobb@jimersoncobb.com]
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 4:18 PM
To: Gibbons, Michael; 'Reese J. Henderson, Jr.'; lauriesams@comcast.net; 'White, Patrick G.'; 'Brian Solomon'; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: RE: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
6G4-15.0024 states - Documentation of one or more of the following:
(1) 20% or more ownership of the business to be qualified;
(2) W2 employee
(3) Other evidence of the means and methods utilized by the applicant to ensure control over the construction work of the proposed entity.
It is hard to establish number 3 without having number 1 and/or 2. But I will concede that it may be possible, but is certainly not the norm .
[cid:image006.jpg@01CF3C81.B74B3200]
Christopher M. Cobb, Esq.
Board Certified in Construction Law
Jimerson & Cobb, P.A.
Business Litigation | Construction Law | Banking Law | Creditor’s Rights & AR Collection | Community Associations
Telephone: (904) 389-0050 | Facsimile: (904) 212-1269
ccobb@jimersoncobb.commailto:ccobb@jimersoncobb.com | JimersonCobb.comhttp://www.jimersoncobb.com/
Add to Contactshttp://www.jimersoncobb.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Christopher-M-Cobb.vcf | View Biographyhttp://www.jimersoncobb.com/attorneys/christopher-m-cobb/
From: Gibbons, Michael [mailto:Michael.Gibbons@lowndes-law.com]
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 4:10 PM
To: 'Reese J. Henderson, Jr.'; Chris Cobb; lauriesams@comcast.netmailto:lauriesams@comcast.net; 'White, Patrick G.'; 'Brian Solomon'; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: RE: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
Qualifiers are not required to be employees or owners of the qualified business organization. They are required to have ultimate authority over all construction issues on projects where their license is used for a permit. I have assisted business organizations with Ch. 489 qualifiers who were neither owners nor employees.
Michael R. Gibbons (Biohttp://lowndes-law.com/our-people/michael-r-gibbons)
Shareholder
Lowndes, Drosdick, Doster, Kantor & Reed, P.A.
215 N. Eola Drive
Orlando, FL 32801
Phone: 407-418-6378
Fax: 407-843-4444
email: michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.commailto:michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.com
website: http://www.lowndes-law.comhttp://www.lowndes-law.com/
[cid:image004.jpg@01CF3C81.B74B3200]
From: Reese J. Henderson, Jr. [mailto:Reese.Henderson@gray-robinson.com]
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 3:51 PM
To: Chris Cobb; lauriesams@comcast.netmailto:lauriesams@comcast.net; Gibbons, Michael; 'White, Patrick G.'; 'Brian Solomon'; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: RE: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
I agree with Chris – you have a bigger problem than WC here. You have potential aiding and abetting issues . . . .
From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Chris Cobb
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 3:38 PM
To: lauriesams@comcast.netmailto:lauriesams@comcast.net; Gibbons, Michael; 'White, Patrick G.'; 'Brian Solomon'; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
Also makes you wonder how the sister can qualify the company if she is not a member and not an employee……
[cid:image006.jpg@01CF3C81.B74B3200]
Christopher M. Cobb, Esq.
Board Certified in Construction Law
Jimerson & Cobb, P.A.
Business Litigation | Construction Law | Banking Law | Creditor’s Rights & AR Collection | Community Associations
Telephone: (904) 389-0050 | Facsimile: (904) 212-1269
ccobb@jimersoncobb.commailto:ccobb@jimersoncobb.com | JimersonCobb.comhttp://www.jimersoncobb.com/
Add to Contactshttp://www.jimersoncobb.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Christopher-M-Cobb.vcf | View Biographyhttp://www.jimersoncobb.com/attorneys/christopher-m-cobb/
From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org]mailto:[mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of lauriesams@comcast.netmailto:lauriesams@comcast.net
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 3:21 PM
To: Gibbons, Michael; 'White, Patrick G.'; 'Brian Solomon'; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
I believe everyone is way over thinking this. I think the issue is the sister (the one holding the license) does not have a workers comp exemption. To obtain a workers comp exemption you must own at least 10%. If its a single member LLC, your client would be the one with the exemption. She does not own any of the LLC, as such she cannot be exempt. He needs to either have her as a % owner and file for the 2 year exemption or he needs to get it for her.
Laurie B. Sams
Van Winkle & Sams, P.A.
3859 Bee Ridge Road, Suite 202
Sarasota, FL 34233
(941) 923-1685
fax (941) 923-0174
www.vwslaw.comhttp://www.vwslaw.com
Please Note: Our firm only accepts WIRES for closings.
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE: This transmittal may be a confidential attorney-client communication or may otherwise
be privileged or confidential. If it is not clear that you are the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have
received this transmittal in error. In that case, any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this transmittal is
strictly prohibited. If you suspect that you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by
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attachments.
----- Original Message -----
From: Gibbons, Michaelmailto:Michael.Gibbons@lowndes-law.com
To: 'White, Patrick G.'mailto:PWhite@porterwright.com ; 'Brian Solomon'mailto:bsolomon@solomon-law.com ; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 2:50 PM
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
Thanks for the statutory cites Patrick. However, I’m not sure that resolves the issue. Ch. 489 simply requires the licensed contractor to comply with the WC insurance requirements of Ch. 440. Ch. 440 meanwhile expressly permits certain principal owned companies to be WC exempt and I am unaware of a provision that eliminates GC’s from taking advantage of this statutory exemption (which seems wrong and was basis for my original post). Based on the fact that I have encountered several licensed GC’s without WC coverage, I am assuming that DBPR does not require WC coverage as a condition of licensure. Apparently, DBPR only requires the contractor to comply with Ch. 440 which then allows the very small closely owned contractor to exempt itself from coverage.
Michael R. Gibbons (Biohttp://lowndes-law.com/our-people/michael-r-gibbons)
Shareholder
Lowndes, Drosdick, Doster, Kantor & Reed, P.A.
215 N. Eola Drive
Orlando, FL 32801
Phone: 407-418-6378
Fax: 407-843-4444
email: michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.commailto:michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.com
website: http://www.lowndes-law.comhttp://www.lowndes-law.com/
[cid:image007.jpg@01CF3C81.B74B3200]
From: White, Patrick G. [mailto:PWhite@porterwright.com]
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 2:17 PM
To: Gibbons, Michael; 'Brian Solomon'; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: RE: Local Licensing
Sounds like Pasco County has it almost right in that they wouldn’t be able to issue a BP, see Secs. 489.113 (4)(c) 489.114, so why grant the license! They wouldn’t here in Collier either-
(c) The local government may also deny issuance of, or may suspend, any outstanding building permit where a contractor fails or refuses to provide proof of public liability and property damage insurance coverage as required by s. 489.115<index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0400-0499/0489/Sections/0489.115.html>(5) and workers’ compensation insurance coverage as required by s. 489.114<index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0400-0499/0489/Sections/0489.114.html>
Patrick G. White | Biohttp://www.porterwright.com/patrick_white/ | Porter Wright Morris & Arthur LLPhttp://www.porterwright.com | 9132 Strada Place, 3rd Floor | Naples, FL 34108
Direct: 239-593-2963 | Mobile: 239-784-5173 | Fax: 239-593-2990 | Toll Free: 800-876-7962 | pwhite@porterwright.commailto:pwhite@porterwright.com
Florida Bar Board Certified in City, County, and Local Government Law
porterwright
From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Gibbons, Michael
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 1:28 PM
To: 'Brian Solomon'; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
I have not. And sorry for hijacking your post, Brian, but I have occasionally run into the WC exempt GC and it always seemed wrong to me. The GC is supposed to be the “statutory employer” under Ch. 440 if, as happens, an injured subcontractor employee is not covered by the workers compensation policy of the subcontractor employer. When the GC itself is exempt, that safety net is lost. It’s been a while since I read the CILB FAC governing licensing requirements but it used to mandate a minimum amount of GL insurance coverage and compliance with workers compensation insurance coverage requirements. I realize that some GC entities are small enough to qualify as WC exempt but I’m surprised that neither Ch. 440 nor FAC apparently expressly prohibits a General Contractor from operating without workers compensation coverage.
Michael R. Gibbons (Biohttp://lowndes-law.com/our-people/michael-r-gibbons)
Shareholder
Lowndes, Drosdick, Doster, Kantor & Reed, P.A.
215 N. Eola Drive
Orlando, FL 32801
Phone: 407-418-6378
Fax: 407-843-4444
email: michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.commailto:michael.gibbons@lowndes-law.com
website: http://www.lowndes-law.comhttp://www.lowndes-law.com/
[cid:image007.jpg@01CF3C81.B74B3200]
From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Brian Solomon
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 12:51 PM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: [CLC-Discussion] Local Licensing
My client is a single member LLC with a certificate of workers compensation insurance exemption. The company is qualified as a general contractor by his sister, who does not work for the company, she only qualifies the company. Pasco County is refusing to give my client a county license because the qualifier doesn’t have proof of workers compensation insurance.
Has anyone run into this situation?
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Reese J. Henderson, Jr.
Board Certified Construction Attorney
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