Re: [CLC-Discussion] Rejection of PE drawings by non-PE plans examiner
Jeff, I like the creativity, but don’t think this argument will fly. The
key language in this rule is “whenever they are performing engineering as
that term is defined in Section 471.005(7), F.S.” Plan reviewers in the
building department are not “performing engineering” as defined in that
section, but, rather, a permit review function under §553.79, Fla. Stat..
Chuck
Charles B. Hernicz, Esq.
Board Certified in Construction Law by The Florida Bar
Hernicz Legal Services, P.L.
15854 Bent Creek Road
Wellington, FL 33414
Telephone: (561) 753-7511
Facsimile: (561) 753-7082
Chernicz@HerniczLegal.com
From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org
[mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Jeff
Price
Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2014 10:16 AM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: [CLC-Discussion] Rejection of PE drawings by non-PE plans examiner
In reading and reviewing the FAC concerning professional engineers and their
duties, I came across 61G15-26, Supervision Standards “61G15-26.001;
Standards for Supervision of Governmental Employees by Professional
Engineers”
https://www.flrules.org/gateway/ChapterHome.asp?Chapter=61G15-26
The key wording is, “This rule shall prohibit non-professional employees
governed by this rule from overriding, or approving, accepting or rejecting,
or modifying engineering documents prepared by professional engineers unless
such actions are concurred in by a professional engineer in responsible
charge of the employee and that said professional engineer takes full
responsibility for such a decision.” (and yes, there are definitional
standards in the rule, and exceptions, but none I believe apply here).
So, I have a plans examiner (governmental employee), who is not a PE and has
no training as a PE, rejecting (or for argument’s sake approving what is
later found to be bad) signed, sealed and stamped construction drawings
created by a FL PE.
Shouldn’t I be able to request and discover the “concurrence” (however that
was documented or communicated) that must have accompanied the plans
examiner’s decision? Doesn’t the city/county have to produce the
“professional engineer” who took (or takes) “full responsibility” for the
plans examiner’s decision? And if there was no “engineering supervision,”
what is the result?
Jeffrey L. Price, Esq.
Florida Bar Board Certified - Construction Law
Niesen|Price|Worthy|Campo, PA
5216 SW 91st Drive Gainesville, FL 32608
Ph (352) 373-9031 Fax (352) 373-9099
http://npw-law.com http://npw-law.com/
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of this communication is not the intended recipient, employee or agent
responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, you are
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I totally agree with Chuck. As a “lay” member of the BCAI Board, and chair of the board’s PCP, we license and discipline plan reviewers, who are not required to be professional engineers.
Fred R. Dudley, Partner
Board Certified Construction Lawyer
Dudley, Sellers & Healy, P. L.
SunTrust Financial Center, Suite 301
3522 Thomasville Road
Tallahassee, Florida 32308
Cell: (850) 294-3471
Direct: (850)692-6368
dudley@mylicenselaw.com
From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Charles B. Hernicz, Esq
Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2014 11:01 AM
To: 'Jeff Price'; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Rejection of PE drawings by non-PE plans examiner
Jeff, I like the creativity, but don’t think this argument will fly. The key language in this rule is “whenever they are performing engineering as that term is defined in Section 471.005(7), F.S.” Plan reviewers in the building department are not “performing engineering” as defined in that section, but, rather, a permit review function under §553.79, Fla. Stat..
Chuck
Charles B. Hernicz, Esq.
Board Certified in Construction Law by The Florida Bar
Hernicz Legal Services, P.L.
15854 Bent Creek Road
Wellington, FL 33414
Telephone: (561) 753-7511
Facsimile: (561) 753-7082
Chernicz@HerniczLegal.com
From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Price
Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2014 10:16 AM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: [CLC-Discussion] Rejection of PE drawings by non-PE plans examiner
In reading and reviewing the FAC concerning professional engineers and their duties, I came across 61G15-26, Supervision Standards “61G15-26.001; Standards for Supervision of Governmental Employees by Professional Engineers”
https://www.flrules.org/gateway/ChapterHome.asp?Chapter=61G15-26
The key wording is, “This rule shall prohibit non-professional employees governed by this rule from overriding, or approving, accepting or rejecting, or modifying engineering documents prepared by professional engineers unless such actions are concurred in by a professional engineer in responsible charge of the employee and that said professional engineer takes full responsibility for such a decision.” (and yes, there are definitional standards in the rule, and exceptions, but none I believe apply here).
So, I have a plans examiner (governmental employee), who is not a PE and has no training as a PE, rejecting (or for argument’s sake approving what is later found to be bad) signed, sealed and stamped construction drawings created by a FL PE.
Shouldn’t I be able to request and discover the “concurrence” (however that was documented or communicated) that must have accompanied the plans examiner’s decision? Doesn’t the city/county have to produce the “professional engineer” who took (or takes) “full responsibility” for the plans examiner’s decision? And if there was no “engineering supervision,” what is the result?
Jeffrey L. Price, Esq.
Florida Bar Board Certified - Construction Law
Niesen|Price|Worthy|Campo, PA
5216 SW 91st Drive Gainesville, FL 32608
Ph (352) 373-9031 Fax (352) 373-9099
http://npw-law.comhttp://npw-law.com/
<< File: Untitled attachment 00122.txt >> << OLE Object: Picture (Device Independent Bitmap) >> << OLE Object: Picture (Device Independent Bitmap) >>
This communication is intended for the sole use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this communication is not the intended recipient, employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify me by telephone, delete this communication, and destroy any copies of it. Thank you. << OLE Object: Picture (Device Independent Bitmap) >> << File: ATT00001.txt >>