713.08(2) says that the lien may be prepared by  ”the lienor or the lienor’s employee or attorney.”  It separately says that the lienor may be “signed and sworn to or affirmed by the lienor or the lienor’s agent acquainted with the facts stated therein.”

I have heard the argument that when the legislature deleted “attorney” in 714.08(2) that it eliminated the ability of the attorney to sign the lien.  I don’t believe that but have not seen a decision where that was raised.

When you are local and the client is out of town you may choose to get acquainted with the facts and sign.  However I try to avoid signing since I don’t need to be at a deposition when they ask me about my acquaintance with the facts in the case, and possibly get bounced from the case due to having to testify.

Larry R. Leiby

Larry R. Leiby, Esq.

Adjunct Professor, Florida International University College of Law

Florida Bar Board Certified Construction Law Expert

Emeritus Fellow, American College of Commercial Arbitrators

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org  <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org > On Behalf Of Jeffrey Price
Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2020 1:07 PM
To: Barry Kalmanson <bkpa1@aol.com mailto:bkpa1@aol.com >; bpartington@clarkpartington.com mailto:bpartington@clarkpartington.com ; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Who can sign liens and releases?

Hang on there Barry:

The lawyer talks to the client. Takes a look at the NOC and the NTO (if one was necessary). Checks the contract (and prime if necessary). Checks the first day and last day of work documentation to make sure there are no obvious or glaring mistakes (or lies). Sees the emails and letters (if any). Asks for the billing records and/or pay applications. Reviews the payments in and out becoming generally familiar with the events. Might even call the Owner (or their lawyer) and ask what’s up? Then prepares and signs the lien as the lienor’s attorney-in-fact (agent, clearly).

“713.08(2) The claim of lien may be prepared by the lienor or the lienor’s employee or attorney and shall be signed and sworn to or affirmed by the lienor or the lienor’s agent acquainted with the facts stated therein.”

Acquainted - Verb: past tense: acquainted; past participle: acquainted - make someone aware of or familiar with. Having personal knowledge of something : having seen or experienced something e.g. “lawyer who is well acquainted with the facts in this case.”:  to  https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/know know or be  https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/familiar familiar with something, because you have  https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/studied studied it or have  https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/experienced experienced it before.

I think I’m acquainted with the sum and substance of the lien I prepared and signed. Don’t we still have a safe-harbor for attorney developed liens?

“This makes a fun day in a deposition.” Whose deposition? The client who tells you they gave all this stuff to the lawyer? Or the lawyer’s deposition? (I’ve sat for one deposition and that was really fun for me, not so much the other lawyer). Maybe that’s what you meant.

Jeff

From: Barry Kalmanson <bkpa1@aol.com mailto:bkpa1@aol.com >
Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2020 12:43 PM
To: bpartington@clarkpartington.com mailto:bpartington@clarkpartington.com ; Jeffrey Price <jeff@npw-law.com mailto:jeff@npw-law.com >; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org mailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Who can sign liens and releases?

As far as the execution of liens the word "attorney" was removed from the statute in 1977. Now Section 713.08(2) does not provide authority for an attorney to execute liens unless the attorney happens to be "acquainted with the facts stated therein." This highly unlikely unless the attorney also works as an employee of the lienor.  This makes a fun day in a deposition.

As far as releases go any individual with authority (including attorneys) can execute releases. Section 713.20 does not include a limitation on who can sign the releases of lien.

Under Section 713.08(2) the discussion becomes much more interesting as to who can prepare the liens . Many throughout the state that are not permitted are preparing liens. This is clearly the unlicensed practice of law.  The Florida Bar has sent cease and desist letters to various companies and non-lawyer individuals for preparing liens.

Sincerely,

Barry Kalmanson

500 N Maitland Avenue

Suite 305

Maitland, Fl. 32751

407-645-4500 x 215

http://www.barrykalmanson.com/ http://www.barrykalmanson.com/

-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Partington < mailto:bpartington@clarkpartington.com bpartington@clarkpartington.com>
To: Jeffrey Price < mailto:jeff@npw-law.com jeff@npw-law.com>;  mailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org < mailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org>
Sent: Wed, Jul 1, 2020 10:24 am
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Who can sign liens and releases?

For what it’s worth, and 692 is part of it, it’s been my policy for years never to sign liens or releases on behalf of clients. Another reason is that the jurat is taking an oath that what is in it is true, and I think it’s best that clients do that. (A release would formally probably only require an acknowledgement, but a lien definitely requires a jurat).

I think the beginning of 692.01 makes it relatively clear:

Any corporation may execute instruments conveying, mortgaging, or affecting any interest in lands by instruments sealed with the common or corporate seal and signed in its name by its president or any vice president or chief executive officer. Assignments, satisfactions, or partial releases of mortgages and acquittances for debts may be similarly executed by any corporate officer.

But, read carefully, that only applies to acknowledgements, not jurats, because pretty much all instruments affecting any interests in lands, except a construction lien, require only an acknowledgement.

Bruce Partington | Shareholder
mailto:bpartington@clarkpartington.com bpartington@clarkpartington.com |  callto:(850)%20432-1399 (850) 432-1399

CLARK PARTINGTON
Office: (850) 434-9200 | Fax: (850) 432-7340
125 East Intendencia Street, 4th Floor
Pensacola, Florida 32502
http://clarkpartington.com/ clarkpartington.com

https://www.facebook.com/ClarkPartington/  https://www.linkedin.com/company/2250553/admin/  https://twitter.com/ClarkPartington  https://www.instagram.com/clarkpartington/

From:  mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org < mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of Jeffrey Price
Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2020 9:05 AM
To:  mailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: [CLC-Discussion] Who can sign liens and releases?

Delivered a partial lien release for a single condo where client has a lien on the entire complex. This was the 6th at this condo for routine sales (Miami-Dade) and was no different that the other 5 (or other 20-some in the last 6 months on other complexes). The release was prepared by me (Attorney for Lienor), signed by me as “Agent/Attorney for Lienor.”

Got into a dispute about the release form (not the amount). First they wanted the jurat changed to duplicate the language as of Jan. 1, 2020 (despite the statute saying the jurat “must be in substantially the following form”). Whatever. Fine.

But then this is forwarded to me. I called “Connie” but because I am not a member of “The Fund” she refused to discuss anything and hung up the phone. (You that have dealt with me can understand, hell, I don’t even like talking to me in a mirror).

Question – has anyone ever heard of this line of reasoning? Does 692 have anything to do with 713 liens and releases?

“The release is signed an agent of a Florida corporation.  Under Sec. 692.01, F.S.,  a corporate officer may sign partial releases of mortgages and acquittances for debts. There is no authority for anyone other than a corporate officer to sign such a document.”

connie Clark

Senior Underwriting Counsel

P: 800.432.9594

http://www.thefund.com/

http://www.thefund.com/ www.TheFund.com

CLC-Discussion mailing list
mailto:CLC-Discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org CLC-Discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/clc-discussion http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/clc-discussion

Larry’s cautionary tale is wise.  The attorney who delves that deeply into the facts in order to swear to the truth of those facts within the lien opens himself up to being a necessary witness in the litigation, especially with regard to making a claim for (or defending) a fraudulent lien.

Thank you.

Evan

Law Offices Of
EVAN B. PLOTKA, P.A.
Presidential Financial Center
3837 Hollywood Boulevard, Suite A
Hollywood, Florida 33021
(954) 334-7600 telephone
(954) 334-7755 facsimile

THIS INFORMATION IS INTENDED SOLELY FOR USE BY THE INDIVIDUAL OR ENTITY NAMED AS THE RECIPIENT HEREOF AND MAY BE ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGED OR CONTAIN CONFIDENTIAL/INSIDE INFORMATION. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, BE AWARE THAT ANY DISCLOSURE, COPYING OR DISTRIBUTION OR USE OF THE CONTENTS OF THIS TRANSMISSION IS PROHIBITED. IF YOU HAVE RECEIVED THIS TRANSMISSION IN ERROR, PLEASE NOTIFY THE SENDER BY TELEPHONE IMMEDIATELY AND DESTROY ALL PAGES RELATED TO THE INCORRECT TRANSMISSION.

IRS CIRCULAR 230 DISCLOSURE:
31 CFR PART 10, SECTION 10.35, REQUIRES US TO NOTIFY YOU THAT ANY TAX ADVICE IN THIS ELECTRONIC MESSAGE WAS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING PENALTIES.
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From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org On Behalf Of leibyl@comcast.net
Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2020 1:30 PM
To: 'Jeffrey Price' jeff@npw-law.com; 'Barry Kalmanson' bkpa1@aol.com; bpartington@clarkpartington.com; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Who can sign liens and releases?

713.08(2) says that the lien may be prepared by  ”the lienor or the lienor’s employee or attorney.”  It separately says that the lienor may be “signed and sworn to or affirmed by the lienor or the lienor’s agent acquainted with the facts stated therein.”

I have heard the argument that when the legislature deleted “attorney” in 714.08(2) that it eliminated the ability of the attorney to sign the lien.  I don’t believe that but have not seen a decision where that was raised.
When you are local and the client is out of town you may choose to get acquainted with the facts and sign.  However I try to avoid signing since I don’t need to be at a deposition when they ask me about my acquaintance with the facts in the case, and possibly get bounced from the case due to having to testify.

Larry R. Leiby
Larry R. Leiby, Esq.
Adjunct Professor, Florida International University College of Law
Florida Bar Board Certified Construction Law Expert
Emeritus Fellow, American College of Commercial Arbitrators

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of Jeffrey Price
Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2020 1:07 PM
To: Barry Kalmanson <bkpa1@aol.commailto:bkpa1@aol.com>; bpartington@clarkpartington.commailto:bpartington@clarkpartington.com; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Who can sign liens and releases?

Hang on there Barry:

The lawyer talks to the client. Takes a look at the NOC and the NTO (if one was necessary). Checks the contract (and prime if necessary). Checks the first day and last day of work documentation to make sure there are no obvious or glaring mistakes (or lies). Sees the emails and letters (if any). Asks for the billing records and/or pay applications. Reviews the payments in and out becoming generally familiar with the events. Might even call the Owner (or their lawyer) and ask what’s up? Then prepares and signs the lien as the lienor’s attorney-in-fact (agent, clearly).

“713.08(2) The claim of lien may be prepared by the lienor or the lienor’s employee or attorney and shall be signed and sworn to or affirmed by the lienor or the lienor’s agent acquainted with the facts stated therein.”

Acquainted - Verb: past tense: acquainted; past participle: acquainted - make someone aware of or familiar with. Having personal knowledge of something : having seen or experienced something e.g. “lawyer who is well acquainted with the facts in this case.”:  to knowhttps://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/know or be familiarhttps://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/familiar with something, because you have studiedhttps://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/studied it or have experiencedhttps://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/experienced it before.

I think I’m acquainted with the sum and substance of the lien I prepared and signed. Don’t we still have a safe-harbor for attorney developed liens?

“This makes a fun day in a deposition.” Whose deposition? The client who tells you they gave all this stuff to the lawyer? Or the lawyer’s deposition? (I’ve sat for one deposition and that was really fun for me, not so much the other lawyer). Maybe that’s what you meant.

Jeff

[cid:image013.png@01D64FAF.D5C4BD80][cid:image015.png@01D64FAF.D5C4BD80][A picture containing drawing, clock  Description automatically generated]

From: Barry Kalmanson <bkpa1@aol.commailto:bkpa1@aol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2020 12:43 PM
To: bpartington@clarkpartington.commailto:bpartington@clarkpartington.com; Jeffrey Price <jeff@npw-law.commailto:jeff@npw-law.com>; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Who can sign liens and releases?

As far as the execution of liens the word "attorney" was removed from the statute in 1977. Now Section 713.08(2) does not provide authority for an attorney to execute liens unless the attorney happens to be "acquainted with the facts stated therein." This highly unlikely unless the attorney also works as an employee of the lienor.  This makes a fun day in a deposition.

As far as releases go any individual with authority (including attorneys) can execute releases. Section 713.20 does not include a limitation on who can sign the releases of lien.

Under Section 713.08(2) the discussion becomes much more interesting as to who can prepare the liens . Many throughout the state that are not permitted are preparing liens. This is clearly the unlicensed practice of law.  The Florida Bar has sent cease and desist letters to various companies and non-lawyer individuals for preparing liens.
Sincerely,

Barry Kalmanson
500 N Maitland Avenue
Suite 305
Maitland, Fl. 32751
407-645-4500 x 215

http://www.barrykalmanson.com/

-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Partington <bpartington@clarkpartington.commailto:bpartington@clarkpartington.com>
To: Jeffrey Price <jeff@npw-law.commailto:jeff@npw-law.com>; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org>
Sent: Wed, Jul 1, 2020 10:24 am
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Who can sign liens and releases?
For what it’s worth, and 692 is part of it, it’s been my policy for years never to sign liens or releases on behalf of clients. Another reason is that the jurat is taking an oath that what is in it is true, and I think it’s best that clients do that. (A release would formally probably only require an acknowledgement, but a lien definitely requires a jurat).

I think the beginning of 692.01 makes it relatively clear:
Any corporation may execute instruments conveying, mortgaging, or affecting any interest in lands by instruments sealed with the common or corporate seal and signed in its name by its president or any vice president or chief executive officer. Assignments, satisfactions, or partial releases of mortgages and acquittances for debts may be similarly executed by any corporate officer.

But, read carefully, that only applies to acknowledgements, not jurats, because pretty much all instruments affecting any interests in lands, except a construction lien, require only an acknowledgement.

Bruce Partington | Shareholder
bpartington@clarkpartington.commailto:bpartington@clarkpartington.com | (850) 432-1399callto:(850)%20432-1399
CLARK PARTINGTON
Office: (850) 434-9200 | Fax: (850) 432-7340
125 East Intendencia Street, 4th Floor
Pensacola, Florida 32502
clarkpartington.comhttp://clarkpartington.com/
[cid:image019.jpg@01D64FAF.D5C4BD80]
[cid:image020.png@01D64FAF.D5C4BD80]https://www.facebook.com/ClarkPartington/ [cid:image021.png@01D64FAF.D5C4BD80] https://www.linkedin.com/company/2250553/admin/  [cid:image022.png@01D64FAF.D5C4BD80] https://twitter.com/ClarkPartington  [cid:image023.png@01D64FAF.D5C4BD80] https://www.instagram.com/clarkpartington/

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of Jeffrey Price
Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2020 9:05 AM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: [CLC-Discussion] Who can sign liens and releases?

Delivered a partial lien release for a single condo where client has a lien on the entire complex. This was the 6th at this condo for routine sales (Miami-Dade) and was no different that the other 5 (or other 20-some in the last 6 months on other complexes). The release was prepared by me (Attorney for Lienor), signed by me as “Agent/Attorney for Lienor.”

Got into a dispute about the release form (not the amount). First they wanted the jurat changed to duplicate the language as of Jan. 1, 2020 (despite the statute saying the jurat “must be in substantially the following form”). Whatever. Fine.

But then this is forwarded to me. I called “Connie” but because I am not a member of “The Fund” she refused to discuss anything and hung up the phone. (You that have dealt with me can understand, hell, I don’t even like talking to me in a mirror).

Question – has anyone ever heard of this line of reasoning? Does 692 have anything to do with 713 liens and releases?

“The release is signed an agent of a Florida corporation.  Under Sec. 692.01, F.S.,  a corporate officer may sign partial releases of mortgages and acquittances for debts. There is no authority for anyone other than a corporate officer to sign such a document.”
connie Clark
Senior Underwriting Counsel

P: 800.432.9594
[FUND-NEW-Logo-FC200]http://www.thefund.com/
www.TheFund.comhttp://www.thefund.com/

[cid:image025.png@01D64FAF.D5C4BD80][cid:image026.png@01D64FAF.D5C4BD80][A picture containing drawing, clock  Description automatically generated]

CLC-Discussion mailing list
CLC-Discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:CLC-Discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/clc-discussion

I agree and I do not sign liens under any circumstance, not because I think I can’t, but because I think it is a horrible idea.  However, I have no problem signing releases/satisfactions if there is any degree of urgency on the part of any parties involved and the expedience can save some from delaying a closing, breaching an agreement, or incurring a liability or fee, etc.

[cid:image002.jpg@01D64FB3.5FD73D10]
Robert E. Doan
Board Certified Construction Attorney
Supreme Court Certified Circuit Civil Mediator
231 N. Woodland Blvd.
DeLand, FL 32720
(P) 386-736-7700 | (F) 386-785-1549

Offices In Daytona Beach and DeLand

Websitehttp://www.cobbcole.com/ | Biohttp://www.cobbcole.com/The-Cobb-Cole-Team/Robert-E-Doan.shtml | vCardhttp://www.cobbcole.com/content/includes/vCards/Robert-E-Doan.vcf

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org On Behalf Of Evan Plotka
Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2020 2:05 PM
To: leibyl@comcast.net; 'Jeffrey Price' jeff@npw-law.com; 'Barry Kalmanson' bkpa1@aol.com; bpartington@clarkpartington.com; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Who can sign liens and releases?

Larry’s cautionary tale is wise.  The attorney who delves that deeply into the facts in order to swear to the truth of those facts within the lien opens himself up to being a necessary witness in the litigation, especially with regard to making a claim for (or defending) a fraudulent lien.

Thank you.

Evan

Law Offices Of
EVAN B. PLOTKA, P.A.
Presidential Financial Center
3837 Hollywood Boulevard, Suite A
Hollywood, Florida 33021
(954) 334-7600 telephone
(954) 334-7755 facsimile

THIS INFORMATION IS INTENDED SOLELY FOR USE BY THE INDIVIDUAL OR ENTITY NAMED AS THE RECIPIENT HEREOF AND MAY BE ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGED OR CONTAIN CONFIDENTIAL/INSIDE INFORMATION. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, BE AWARE THAT ANY DISCLOSURE, COPYING OR DISTRIBUTION OR USE OF THE CONTENTS OF THIS TRANSMISSION IS PROHIBITED. IF YOU HAVE RECEIVED THIS TRANSMISSION IN ERROR, PLEASE NOTIFY THE SENDER BY TELEPHONE IMMEDIATELY AND DESTROY ALL PAGES RELATED TO THE INCORRECT TRANSMISSION.

IRS CIRCULAR 230 DISCLOSURE:
31 CFR PART 10, SECTION 10.35, REQUIRES US TO NOTIFY YOU THAT ANY TAX ADVICE IN THIS ELECTRONIC MESSAGE WAS NOT INTENDED OR WRITTEN TO BE USED, AND CANNOT BE USED, FOR THE PURPOSE OF AVOIDING PENALTIES.
[A close up of a sign    Description automatically generated][Home][A close up of a logo    Description automatically generated]

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of leibyl@comcast.netmailto:leibyl@comcast.net
Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2020 1:30 PM
To: 'Jeffrey Price' <jeff@npw-law.commailto:jeff@npw-law.com>; 'Barry Kalmanson' <bkpa1@aol.commailto:bkpa1@aol.com>; bpartington@clarkpartington.commailto:bpartington@clarkpartington.com; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Who can sign liens and releases?

713.08(2) says that the lien may be prepared by  ”the lienor or the lienor’s employee or attorney.”  It separately says that the lienor may be “signed and sworn to or affirmed by the lienor or the lienor’s agent acquainted with the facts stated therein.”

I have heard the argument that when the legislature deleted “attorney” in 714.08(2) that it eliminated the ability of the attorney to sign the lien.  I don’t believe that but have not seen a decision where that was raised.
When you are local and the client is out of town you may choose to get acquainted with the facts and sign.  However I try to avoid signing since I don’t need to be at a deposition when they ask me about my acquaintance with the facts in the case, and possibly get bounced from the case due to having to testify.

Larry R. Leiby
Larry R. Leiby, Esq.
Adjunct Professor, Florida International University College of Law
Florida Bar Board Certified Construction Law Expert
Emeritus Fellow, American College of Commercial Arbitrators

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of Jeffrey Price
Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2020 1:07 PM
To: Barry Kalmanson <bkpa1@aol.commailto:bkpa1@aol.com>; bpartington@clarkpartington.commailto:bpartington@clarkpartington.com; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Who can sign liens and releases?

Hang on there Barry:

The lawyer talks to the client. Takes a look at the NOC and the NTO (if one was necessary). Checks the contract (and prime if necessary). Checks the first day and last day of work documentation to make sure there are no obvious or glaring mistakes (or lies). Sees the emails and letters (if any). Asks for the billing records and/or pay applications. Reviews the payments in and out becoming generally familiar with the events. Might even call the Owner (or their lawyer) and ask what’s up? Then prepares and signs the lien as the lienor’s attorney-in-fact (agent, clearly).

“713.08(2) The claim of lien may be prepared by the lienor or the lienor’s employee or attorney and shall be signed and sworn to or affirmed by the lienor or the lienor’s agent acquainted with the facts stated therein.”

Acquainted - Verb: past tense: acquainted; past participle: acquainted - make someone aware of or familiar with. Having personal knowledge of something : having seen or experienced something e.g. “lawyer who is well acquainted with the facts in this case.”:  to knowhttps://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/know or be familiarhttps://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/familiar with something, because you have studiedhttps://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/studied it or have experiencedhttps://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/experienced it before.

I think I’m acquainted with the sum and substance of the lien I prepared and signed. Don’t we still have a safe-harbor for attorney developed liens?

“This makes a fun day in a deposition.” Whose deposition? The client who tells you they gave all this stuff to the lawyer? Or the lawyer’s deposition? (I’ve sat for one deposition and that was really fun for me, not so much the other lawyer). Maybe that’s what you meant.

Jeff

[cid:image008.png@01D64FB3.5FD73D10][cid:image009.png@01D64FB3.5FD73D10][A picture containing drawing, clock    Description automatically generated]

From: Barry Kalmanson <bkpa1@aol.commailto:bkpa1@aol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2020 12:43 PM
To: bpartington@clarkpartington.commailto:bpartington@clarkpartington.com; Jeffrey Price <jeff@npw-law.commailto:jeff@npw-law.com>; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Who can sign liens and releases?

As far as the execution of liens the word "attorney" was removed from the statute in 1977. Now Section 713.08(2) does not provide authority for an attorney to execute liens unless the attorney happens to be "acquainted with the facts stated therein." This highly unlikely unless the attorney also works as an employee of the lienor.  This makes a fun day in a deposition.

As far as releases go any individual with authority (including attorneys) can execute releases. Section 713.20 does not include a limitation on who can sign the releases of lien.

Under Section 713.08(2) the discussion becomes much more interesting as to who can prepare the liens . Many throughout the state that are not permitted are preparing liens. This is clearly the unlicensed practice of law.  The Florida Bar has sent cease and desist letters to various companies and non-lawyer individuals for preparing liens.
Sincerely,

Barry Kalmanson
500 N Maitland Avenue
Suite 305
Maitland, Fl. 32751
407-645-4500 x 215

http://www.barrykalmanson.com/

-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Partington <bpartington@clarkpartington.commailto:bpartington@clarkpartington.com>
To: Jeffrey Price <jeff@npw-law.commailto:jeff@npw-law.com>; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org>
Sent: Wed, Jul 1, 2020 10:24 am
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Who can sign liens and releases?
For what it’s worth, and 692 is part of it, it’s been my policy for years never to sign liens or releases on behalf of clients. Another reason is that the jurat is taking an oath that what is in it is true, and I think it’s best that clients do that. (A release would formally probably only require an acknowledgement, but a lien definitely requires a jurat).

I think the beginning of 692.01 makes it relatively clear:
Any corporation may execute instruments conveying, mortgaging, or affecting any interest in lands by instruments sealed with the common or corporate seal and signed in its name by its president or any vice president or chief executive officer. Assignments, satisfactions, or partial releases of mortgages and acquittances for debts may be similarly executed by any corporate officer.

But, read carefully, that only applies to acknowledgements, not jurats, because pretty much all instruments affecting any interests in lands, except a construction lien, require only an acknowledgement.

Bruce Partington | Shareholder
bpartington@clarkpartington.commailto:bpartington@clarkpartington.com | (850) 432-1399callto:(850)%20432-1399
CLARK PARTINGTON
Office: (850) 434-9200 | Fax: (850) 432-7340
125 East Intendencia Street, 4th Floor
Pensacola, Florida 32502
clarkpartington.comhttp://clarkpartington.com/
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From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of Jeffrey Price
Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2020 9:05 AM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: [CLC-Discussion] Who can sign liens and releases?

Delivered a partial lien release for a single condo where client has a lien on the entire complex. This was the 6th at this condo for routine sales (Miami-Dade) and was no different that the other 5 (or other 20-some in the last 6 months on other complexes). The release was prepared by me (Attorney for Lienor), signed by me as “Agent/Attorney for Lienor.”

Got into a dispute about the release form (not the amount). First they wanted the jurat changed to duplicate the language as of Jan. 1, 2020 (despite the statute saying the jurat “must be in substantially the following form”). Whatever. Fine.

But then this is forwarded to me. I called “Connie” but because I am not a member of “The Fund” she refused to discuss anything and hung up the phone. (You that have dealt with me can understand, hell, I don’t even like talking to me in a mirror).

Question – has anyone ever heard of this line of reasoning? Does 692 have anything to do with 713 liens and releases?

“The release is signed an agent of a Florida corporation.  Under Sec. 692.01, F.S.,  a corporate officer may sign partial releases of mortgages and acquittances for debts. There is no authority for anyone other than a corporate officer to sign such a document.”
connie Clark
Senior Underwriting Counsel

P: 800.432.9594
[FUND-NEW-Logo-FC200]http://www.thefund.com/
www.TheFund.comhttp://www.thefund.com/

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No. But she can copy the legal from the notice of commencement

Sent from my iPhone

Daniel R. Vega, Esq.
Florida Board Certified in Construction Law
Florida Supreme Court Certified Circuit Court Mediator
Taylor Espino Vega & Touron, PLLC
201 Alhambra Circle, Suite 801
Coral Gables, Florida 33134
Telephone: (305) 443-2043
Facsimile: (305) 443-2048
Cell: (305) 962-5186
E-mail: dvega@tevtlaw.com

On Jul 1, 2020, at 1:23 PM, Reese J. Henderson, Jr. Reese.Henderson@gray-robinson.com wrote:


Here’s a link for the curious - https://caselaw.findlaw.com/fl-supreme-court/1717326.htmlhttps://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcaselaw.findlaw.com%2Ffl-supreme-court%2F1717326.html&data=02%7C01%7Cdvega%40tevtlaw.com%7Ca69e6f9b52a84c35e5a608d81de377ba%7C77483cb9f33c4c7686e8bcfe43eb03ef%7C0%7C0%7C637292210104569644&sdata=uEjRCC7wH9l0GbhxO1d0n7FvTyv%2BQoUyLjJNAFNtTsY%3D&reserved=0

Reese J. Henderson, Jr. | Shareholder
Florida Bar Board Certified in Construction Law
Florida Supreme Court Certified Circuit Civil Mediator
G R A Y | R O B I N S O N

50 North Laura Street, Suite 1100 | Jacksonville, Florida 32202
T: 904-598-9929 | F: 904-598-9109 | D: 904-632-8459
E-mailmailto:Reese.Henderson@gray-robinson.com | Websitehttps://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gray-robinson.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cdvega%40tevtlaw.com%7Ca69e6f9b52a84c35e5a608d81de377ba%7C77483cb9f33c4c7686e8bcfe43eb03ef%7C0%7C0%7C637292210104579646&sdata=kDc75BGD7fasUHaU8vxvvcw8hNtNyoVHUy15ePvMdzk%3D&reserved=0 | Biohttps://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gray-robinson.com%2Fattorneys%2Fdetail%2F1022%2FReeseJ-HendersonJr&data=02%7C01%7Cdvega%40tevtlaw.com%7Ca69e6f9b52a84c35e5a608d81de377ba%7C77483cb9f33c4c7686e8bcfe43eb03ef%7C0%7C0%7C637292210104579646&sdata=tKoVIV8UVdyPezDQ9eFQvTU1EGzB0mDL%2FsOhNDpx0YY%3D&reserved=0 | vCardhttps://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gray-robinson.com%2Fdocs%2FReese%2520Henderson.vcf&data=02%7C01%7Cdvega%40tevtlaw.com%7Ca69e6f9b52a84c35e5a608d81de377ba%7C77483cb9f33c4c7686e8bcfe43eb03ef%7C0%7C0%7C637292210104589633&sdata=6iuMZwGJZcf2EOjWcObzObYRJGU3qXJytXshEQFWgdc%3D&reserved=0

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From: Adam C. Linkhorst ACL@floridahardhatlaw.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2020 1:18 PM
To: Reese J. Henderson, Jr. Reese.Henderson@gray-robinson.com; Dan Vega DVega@TEVTLaw.com; Barry Kalmanson bkpa1@aol.com
Cc: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Who can sign liens and releases?

This message originated outside of GrayRobinson.

Take a look at SC13-889. It may be helpful. Deals with property mangers but seems very instruction and has a lot behind it.

Adam C. Linkhorst, Esq.
Linkhorst & Hockin, P.A.
C - 954.562.9199
W - 561.626.8880

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> on behalf of Reese J. Henderson, Jr. <Reese.Henderson@gray-robinson.commailto:Reese.Henderson@gray-robinson.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2020 11:09:26 AM
To: Dan Vega <DVega@TEVTLaw.commailto:DVega@TEVTLaw.com>; Barry Kalmanson <bkpa1@aol.commailto:bkpa1@aol.com>
Cc: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org>
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Who can sign liens and releases?

Dan:  Does your 15 year old daughter know how to prepare a proper legal description of the property that your client’s lien will encumber?  Does your daughter, or any layperson for that matter, appreciate the gravity and potential ramifications of making an error in the calculation of the lien amount (i.e., fraudulent lien exposure)?  Preparing a lien is hardly a trivial task.

Reese J. Henderson, Jr. | Shareholder
Florida Bar Board Certified in Construction Law
Florida Supreme Court Certified Circuit Civil Mediator
G R A Y | R O B I N S O N

50 North Laura Street, Suite 1100 | Jacksonville, Florida 32202
T: 904-598-9929 | F: 904-598-9109 | D: 904-632-8459
E-mailmailto:Reese.Henderson@gray-robinson.com | Websitehttps://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gray-robinson.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cdvega%40tevtlaw.com%7Ca69e6f9b52a84c35e5a608d81de377ba%7C77483cb9f33c4c7686e8bcfe43eb03ef%7C0%7C0%7C637292210104599628&sdata=ZIrwf69toNilkzv24J9W17CTL1xGcWmV5WFJQ4SASpk%3D&reserved=0 | Biohttps://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gray-robinson.com%2Fattorneys%2Fdetail%2F1022%2FReeseJ-HendersonJr&data=02%7C01%7Cdvega%40tevtlaw.com%7Ca69e6f9b52a84c35e5a608d81de377ba%7C77483cb9f33c4c7686e8bcfe43eb03ef%7C0%7C0%7C637292210104609621&sdata=T4u0YHM71EmNwv1r5BIZtaZjECxSkcst4F6czOMnMjA%3D&reserved=0 | vCardhttps://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gray-robinson.com%2Fdocs%2FReese%2520Henderson.vcf&data=02%7C01%7Cdvega%40tevtlaw.com%7Ca69e6f9b52a84c35e5a608d81de377ba%7C77483cb9f33c4c7686e8bcfe43eb03ef%7C0%7C0%7C637292210104609621&sdata=i%2Bz6VBrbreZMAujempETi0dTgpvZYRu5vq5k80l5SwA%3D&reserved=0

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From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of Dan Vega
Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2020 1:01 PM
To: Barry Kalmanson <bkpa1@aol.commailto:bkpa1@aol.com>
Cc: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Who can sign liens and releases?

This message originated outside of GrayRobinson.

What does prepare the lien mean?

My 15 year old daughter can take the form in the statute and fill the blanks with the info provided by a client.  The client then signs it.

Who prepared the lien?

Sent from my iPhone

Daniel R. Vega, Esq.

Florida Board Certified in Construction Law

Florida Supreme Court Certified Circuit Court Mediator

Taylor Espino Vega & Touron, PLLC

201 Alhambra Circle, Suite 801

Coral Gables, Florida 33134

Telephone: (305) 443-2043

Facsimile: (305) 443-2048

Cell: (305) 962-5186

E-mail: dvega@tevtlaw.commailto:dvega@tevtlaw.com

On Jul 1, 2020, at 12:52 PM, Barry Kalmanson <bkpa1@aol.commailto:bkpa1@aol.com> wrote:



As far as the execution of liens the word "attorney" was removed from the statute in 1977. Now Section 713.08(2) does not provide authority for an attorney to execute liens unless the attorney happens to be "acquainted with the facts stated therein." This highly unlikely unless the attorney also works as an employee of the lienor.  This makes a fun day in a deposition.

As far as releases go any individual with authority (including attorneys) can execute releases. Section 713.20 does not include a limitation on who can sign the releases of lien.

Under Section 713.08(2) the discussion becomes much more interesting as to who can prepare the liens . Many throughout the state that are not permitted are preparing liens. This is clearly the unlicensed practice of law.  The Florida Bar has sent cease and desist letters to various companies and non-lawyer individuals for preparing liens.

Sincerely,

Barry Kalmanson

500 N Maitland Avenue

Suite 305

Maitland, Fl. 32751

407-645-4500 x 215

http://www.barrykalmanson.com/https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.barrykalmanson.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cdvega%40tevtlaw.com%7Ca69e6f9b52a84c35e5a608d81de377ba%7C77483cb9f33c4c7686e8bcfe43eb03ef%7C0%7C0%7C637292210104629609&sdata=0LqXHwhkmZETUX8n%2F3h0pstSpmQOTjMsdSU256M81mg%3D&reserved=0

-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Partington <bpartington@clarkpartington.commailto:bpartington@clarkpartington.com>
To: Jeffrey Price <jeff@npw-law.commailto:jeff@npw-law.com>; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org>
Sent: Wed, Jul 1, 2020 10:24 am
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Who can sign liens and releases?

For what it’s worth, and 692 is part of it, it’s been my policy for years never to sign liens or releases on behalf of clients. Another reason is that the jurat is taking an oath that what is in it is true, and I think it’s best that clients do that. (A release would formally probably only require an acknowledgement, but a lien definitely requires a jurat).

I think the beginning of 692.01 makes it relatively clear:

Any corporation may execute instruments conveying, mortgaging, or affecting any interest in lands by instruments sealed with the common or corporate seal and signed in its name by its president or any vice president or chief executive officer. Assignments, satisfactions, or partial releases of mortgages and acquittances for debts may be similarly executed by any corporate officer.

But, read carefully, that only applies to acknowledgements, not jurats, because pretty much all instruments affecting any interests in lands, except a construction lien, require only an acknowledgement.

Bruce Partington | Shareholder
bpartington@clarkpartington.commailto:bpartington@clarkpartington.com | (850) 432-1399callto:(850)%20432-1399

CLARK PARTINGTON
Office: (850) 434-9200 | Fax: (850) 432-7340
125 East Intendencia Street, 4th Floor
Pensacola, Florida 32502
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From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of Jeffrey Price
Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2020 9:05 AM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: [CLC-Discussion] Who can sign liens and releases?

Delivered a partial lien release for a single condo where client has a lien on the entire complex. This was the 6th at this condo for routine sales (Miami-Dade) and was no different that the other 5 (or other 20-some in the last 6 months on other complexes). The release was prepared by me (Attorney for Lienor), signed by me as “Agent/Attorney for Lienor.”

Got into a dispute about the release form (not the amount). First they wanted the jurat changed to duplicate the language as of Jan. 1, 2020 (despite the statute saying the jurat “must be in substantially the following form”). Whatever. Fine.

But then this is forwarded to me. I called “Connie” but because I am not a member of “The Fund” she refused to discuss anything and hung up the phone. (You that have dealt with me can understand, hell, I don’t even like talking to me in a mirror).

Question – has anyone ever heard of this line of reasoning? Does 692 have anything to do with 713 liens and releases?

“The release is signed an agent of a Florida corporation.  Under Sec. 692.01, F.S.,  a corporate officer may sign partial releases of mortgages and acquittances for debts. There is no authority for anyone other than a corporate officer to sign such a document.”

connie Clark

Senior Underwriting Counsel

P: 800.432.9594

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And if the NOC was incorrect and she liened the wrong property, I hope she has insurance.  Reliance on an NOC is not a defense to a defective lien.

Lee A. Weintraub
Shareholder
Board Certified in Construction Law
Chair, Public Private Partnerships Practice Group
Vice Chair, Construction Law and Litigation Practice Group
Becker & Poliakoff
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From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org On Behalf Of Dan Vega
Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2020 2:35 PM
To: Reese J. Henderson, Jr. Reese.Henderson@gray-robinson.com
Cc: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Who can sign liens and releases?

[EXTERNAL EMAIL]
No. But she can copy the legal from the notice of commencement
Sent from my iPhone

Daniel R. Vega, Esq.
Florida Board Certified in Construction Law
Florida Supreme Court Certified Circuit Court Mediator
Taylor Espino Vega & Touron, PLLC
201 Alhambra Circle, Suite 801
Coral Gables, Florida 33134
Telephone: (305) 443-2043
Facsimile: (305) 443-2048
Cell: (305) 962-5186
E-mail: dvega@tevtlaw.commailto:dvega@tevtlaw.com

On Jul 1, 2020, at 1:23 PM, Reese J. Henderson, Jr. <Reese.Henderson@gray-robinson.commailto:Reese.Henderson@gray-robinson.com> wrote:

Here’s a link for the curious - https://caselaw.findlaw.com/fl-supreme-court/1717326.htmlhttps://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcaselaw.findlaw.com%2Ffl-supreme-court%2F1717326.html&data=02%7C01%7Cdvega%40tevtlaw.com%7Ca69e6f9b52a84c35e5a608d81de377ba%7C77483cb9f33c4c7686e8bcfe43eb03ef%7C0%7C0%7C637292210104569644&sdata=uEjRCC7wH9l0GbhxO1d0n7FvTyv%2BQoUyLjJNAFNtTsY%3D&reserved=0

Reese J. Henderson, Jr. | Shareholder
Florida Bar Board Certified in Construction Law
Florida Supreme Court Certified Circuit Civil Mediator
G R A Y | R O B I N S O N

50 North Laura Street, Suite 1100 | Jacksonville, Florida 32202
T: 904-598-9929 | F: 904-598-9109 | D: 904-632-8459
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From: Adam C. Linkhorst <ACL@floridahardhatlaw.commailto:ACL@floridahardhatlaw.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2020 1:18 PM
To: Reese J. Henderson, Jr. <Reese.Henderson@gray-robinson.commailto:Reese.Henderson@gray-robinson.com>; Dan Vega <DVega@TEVTLaw.commailto:DVega@TEVTLaw.com>; Barry Kalmanson <bkpa1@aol.commailto:bkpa1@aol.com>
Cc: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Who can sign liens and releases?

This message originated outside of GrayRobinson.

Take a look at SC13-889. It may be helpful. Deals with property mangers but seems very instruction and has a lot behind it.

Adam C. Linkhorst, Esq.
Linkhorst & Hockin, P.A.
C - 954.562.9199
W - 561.626.8880

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> on behalf of Reese J. Henderson, Jr. <Reese.Henderson@gray-robinson.commailto:Reese.Henderson@gray-robinson.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2020 11:09:26 AM
To: Dan Vega <DVega@TEVTLaw.commailto:DVega@TEVTLaw.com>; Barry Kalmanson <bkpa1@aol.commailto:bkpa1@aol.com>
Cc: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org>
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Who can sign liens and releases?

Dan:  Does your 15 year old daughter know how to prepare a proper legal description of the property that your client’s lien will encumber?  Does your daughter, or any layperson for that matter, appreciate the gravity and potential ramifications of making an error in the calculation of the lien amount (i.e., fraudulent lien exposure)?  Preparing a lien is hardly a trivial task.

Reese J. Henderson, Jr. | Shareholder
Florida Bar Board Certified in Construction Law
Florida Supreme Court Certified Circuit Civil Mediator
G R A Y | R O B I N S O N

50 North Laura Street, Suite 1100 | Jacksonville, Florida 32202
T: 904-598-9929 | F: 904-598-9109 | D: 904-632-8459
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From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of Dan Vega
Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2020 1:01 PM
To: Barry Kalmanson <bkpa1@aol.commailto:bkpa1@aol.com>
Cc: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Who can sign liens and releases?

This message originated outside of GrayRobinson.

What does prepare the lien mean?

My 15 year old daughter can take the form in the statute and fill the blanks with the info provided by a client.  The client then signs it.

Who prepared the lien?

Sent from my iPhone

Daniel R. Vega, Esq.

Florida Board Certified in Construction Law

Florida Supreme Court Certified Circuit Court Mediator

Taylor Espino Vega & Touron, PLLC

201 Alhambra Circle, Suite 801

Coral Gables, Florida 33134

Telephone: (305) 443-2043

Facsimile: (305) 443-2048

Cell: (305) 962-5186

E-mail: dvega@tevtlaw.commailto:dvega@tevtlaw.com

On Jul 1, 2020, at 12:52 PM, Barry Kalmanson <bkpa1@aol.commailto:bkpa1@aol.com> wrote:



As far as the execution of liens the word "attorney" was removed from the statute in 1977. Now Section 713.08(2) does not provide authority for an attorney to execute liens unless the attorney happens to be "acquainted with the facts stated therein." This highly unlikely unless the attorney also works as an employee of the lienor.  This makes a fun day in a deposition.

As far as releases go any individual with authority (including attorneys) can execute releases. Section 713.20 does not include a limitation on who can sign the releases of lien.

Under Section 713.08(2) the discussion becomes much more interesting as to who can prepare the liens . Many throughout the state that are not permitted are preparing liens. This is clearly the unlicensed practice of law.  The Florida Bar has sent cease and desist letters to various companies and non-lawyer individuals for preparing liens.

Sincerely,

Barry Kalmanson

500 N Maitland Avenue

Suite 305

Maitland, Fl. 32751

407-645-4500 x 215

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-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Partington <bpartington@clarkpartington.commailto:bpartington@clarkpartington.com>
To: Jeffrey Price <jeff@npw-law.commailto:jeff@npw-law.com>; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org>
Sent: Wed, Jul 1, 2020 10:24 am
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Who can sign liens and releases?

For what it’s worth, and 692 is part of it, it’s been my policy for years never to sign liens or releases on behalf of clients. Another reason is that the jurat is taking an oath that what is in it is true, and I think it’s best that clients do that. (A release would formally probably only require an acknowledgement, but a lien definitely requires a jurat).

I think the beginning of 692.01 makes it relatively clear:

Any corporation may execute instruments conveying, mortgaging, or affecting any interest in lands by instruments sealed with the common or corporate seal and signed in its name by its president or any vice president or chief executive officer. Assignments, satisfactions, or partial releases of mortgages and acquittances for debts may be similarly executed by any corporate officer.

But, read carefully, that only applies to acknowledgements, not jurats, because pretty much all instruments affecting any interests in lands, except a construction lien, require only an acknowledgement.

Bruce Partington | Shareholder
bpartington@clarkpartington.commailto:bpartington@clarkpartington.com | (850) 432-1399callto:(850)%20432-1399

CLARK PARTINGTON
Office: (850) 434-9200 | Fax: (850) 432-7340
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From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of Jeffrey Price
Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2020 9:05 AM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: [CLC-Discussion] Who can sign liens and releases?

Delivered a partial lien release for a single condo where client has a lien on the entire complex. This was the 6th at this condo for routine sales (Miami-Dade) and was no different that the other 5 (or other 20-some in the last 6 months on other complexes). The release was prepared by me (Attorney for Lienor), signed by me as “Agent/Attorney for Lienor.”

Got into a dispute about the release form (not the amount). First they wanted the jurat changed to duplicate the language as of Jan. 1, 2020 (despite the statute saying the jurat “must be in substantially the following form”). Whatever. Fine.

But then this is forwarded to me. I called “Connie” but because I am not a member of “The Fund” she refused to discuss anything and hung up the phone. (You that have dealt with me can understand, hell, I don’t even like talking to me in a mirror).

Question – has anyone ever heard of this line of reasoning? Does 692 have anything to do with 713 liens and releases?

“The release is signed an agent of a Florida corporation.  Under Sec. 692.01, F.S.,  a corporate officer may sign partial releases of mortgages and acquittances for debts. There is no authority for anyone other than a corporate officer to sign such a document.”

connie Clark

Senior Underwriting Counsel

P: 800.432.9594

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Minor mistakes or omissions do not invalidate a lien.

If the client’s president notarizes signs the lien, does it matter who actually wrote out the lien?

The person who signs the lien is responsible for the consequences.
Sent from my iPhone

Daniel R. Vega, Esq.
Florida Board Certified in Construction Law
Florida Supreme Court Certified Circuit Court Mediator
Taylor Espino Vega & Touron, PLLC
201 Alhambra Circle, Suite 801
Coral Gables, Florida 33134
Telephone: (305) 443-2043
Facsimile: (305) 443-2048
Cell: (305) 962-5186
E-mail: dvega@tevtlaw.com

On Jul 1, 2020, at 1:23 PM, Reese J. Henderson, Jr. Reese.Henderson@gray-robinson.com wrote:


Here’s a link for the curious - https://caselaw.findlaw.com/fl-supreme-court/1717326.htmlhttps://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcaselaw.findlaw.com%2Ffl-supreme-court%2F1717326.html&data=02%7C01%7Cdvega%40tevtlaw.com%7Ca69e6f9b52a84c35e5a608d81de377ba%7C77483cb9f33c4c7686e8bcfe43eb03ef%7C0%7C0%7C637292210104569644&sdata=uEjRCC7wH9l0GbhxO1d0n7FvTyv%2BQoUyLjJNAFNtTsY%3D&reserved=0

Reese J. Henderson, Jr. | Shareholder
Florida Bar Board Certified in Construction Law
Florida Supreme Court Certified Circuit Civil Mediator
G R A Y | R O B I N S O N

50 North Laura Street, Suite 1100 | Jacksonville, Florida 32202
T: 904-598-9929 | F: 904-598-9109 | D: 904-632-8459
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From: Adam C. Linkhorst ACL@floridahardhatlaw.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2020 1:18 PM
To: Reese J. Henderson, Jr. Reese.Henderson@gray-robinson.com; Dan Vega DVega@TEVTLaw.com; Barry Kalmanson bkpa1@aol.com
Cc: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Who can sign liens and releases?

This message originated outside of GrayRobinson.

Take a look at SC13-889. It may be helpful. Deals with property mangers but seems very instruction and has a lot behind it.

Adam C. Linkhorst, Esq.
Linkhorst & Hockin, P.A.
C - 954.562.9199
W - 561.626.8880

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> on behalf of Reese J. Henderson, Jr. <Reese.Henderson@gray-robinson.commailto:Reese.Henderson@gray-robinson.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2020 11:09:26 AM
To: Dan Vega <DVega@TEVTLaw.commailto:DVega@TEVTLaw.com>; Barry Kalmanson <bkpa1@aol.commailto:bkpa1@aol.com>
Cc: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org>
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Who can sign liens and releases?

Dan:  Does your 15 year old daughter know how to prepare a proper legal description of the property that your client’s lien will encumber?  Does your daughter, or any layperson for that matter, appreciate the gravity and potential ramifications of making an error in the calculation of the lien amount (i.e., fraudulent lien exposure)?  Preparing a lien is hardly a trivial task.

Reese J. Henderson, Jr. | Shareholder
Florida Bar Board Certified in Construction Law
Florida Supreme Court Certified Circuit Civil Mediator
G R A Y | R O B I N S O N

50 North Laura Street, Suite 1100 | Jacksonville, Florida 32202
T: 904-598-9929 | F: 904-598-9109 | D: 904-632-8459
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From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of Dan Vega
Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2020 1:01 PM
To: Barry Kalmanson <bkpa1@aol.commailto:bkpa1@aol.com>
Cc: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Who can sign liens and releases?

This message originated outside of GrayRobinson.

What does prepare the lien mean?

My 15 year old daughter can take the form in the statute and fill the blanks with the info provided by a client.  The client then signs it.

Who prepared the lien?

Sent from my iPhone

Daniel R. Vega, Esq.

Florida Board Certified in Construction Law

Florida Supreme Court Certified Circuit Court Mediator

Taylor Espino Vega & Touron, PLLC

201 Alhambra Circle, Suite 801

Coral Gables, Florida 33134

Telephone: (305) 443-2043

Facsimile: (305) 443-2048

Cell: (305) 962-5186

E-mail: dvega@tevtlaw.commailto:dvega@tevtlaw.com

On Jul 1, 2020, at 12:52 PM, Barry Kalmanson <bkpa1@aol.commailto:bkpa1@aol.com> wrote:



As far as the execution of liens the word "attorney" was removed from the statute in 1977. Now Section 713.08(2) does not provide authority for an attorney to execute liens unless the attorney happens to be "acquainted with the facts stated therein." This highly unlikely unless the attorney also works as an employee of the lienor.  This makes a fun day in a deposition.

As far as releases go any individual with authority (including attorneys) can execute releases. Section 713.20 does not include a limitation on who can sign the releases of lien.

Under Section 713.08(2) the discussion becomes much more interesting as to who can prepare the liens . Many throughout the state that are not permitted are preparing liens. This is clearly the unlicensed practice of law.  The Florida Bar has sent cease and desist letters to various companies and non-lawyer individuals for preparing liens.

Sincerely,

Barry Kalmanson

500 N Maitland Avenue

Suite 305

Maitland, Fl. 32751

407-645-4500 x 215

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-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Partington <bpartington@clarkpartington.commailto:bpartington@clarkpartington.com>
To: Jeffrey Price <jeff@npw-law.commailto:jeff@npw-law.com>; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org>
Sent: Wed, Jul 1, 2020 10:24 am
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Who can sign liens and releases?

For what it’s worth, and 692 is part of it, it’s been my policy for years never to sign liens or releases on behalf of clients. Another reason is that the jurat is taking an oath that what is in it is true, and I think it’s best that clients do that. (A release would formally probably only require an acknowledgement, but a lien definitely requires a jurat).

I think the beginning of 692.01 makes it relatively clear:

Any corporation may execute instruments conveying, mortgaging, or affecting any interest in lands by instruments sealed with the common or corporate seal and signed in its name by its president or any vice president or chief executive officer. Assignments, satisfactions, or partial releases of mortgages and acquittances for debts may be similarly executed by any corporate officer.

But, read carefully, that only applies to acknowledgements, not jurats, because pretty much all instruments affecting any interests in lands, except a construction lien, require only an acknowledgement.

Bruce Partington | Shareholder
bpartington@clarkpartington.commailto:bpartington@clarkpartington.com | (850) 432-1399callto:(850)%20432-1399

CLARK PARTINGTON
Office: (850) 434-9200 | Fax: (850) 432-7340
125 East Intendencia Street, 4th Floor
Pensacola, Florida 32502
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From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of Jeffrey Price
Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2020 9:05 AM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: [CLC-Discussion] Who can sign liens and releases?

Delivered a partial lien release for a single condo where client has a lien on the entire complex. This was the 6th at this condo for routine sales (Miami-Dade) and was no different that the other 5 (or other 20-some in the last 6 months on other complexes). The release was prepared by me (Attorney for Lienor), signed by me as “Agent/Attorney for Lienor.”

Got into a dispute about the release form (not the amount). First they wanted the jurat changed to duplicate the language as of Jan. 1, 2020 (despite the statute saying the jurat “must be in substantially the following form”). Whatever. Fine.

But then this is forwarded to me. I called “Connie” but because I am not a member of “The Fund” she refused to discuss anything and hung up the phone. (You that have dealt with me can understand, hell, I don’t even like talking to me in a mirror).

Question – has anyone ever heard of this line of reasoning? Does 692 have anything to do with 713 liens and releases?

“The release is signed an agent of a Florida corporation.  Under Sec. 692.01, F.S.,  a corporate officer may sign partial releases of mortgages and acquittances for debts. There is no authority for anyone other than a corporate officer to sign such a document.”

connie Clark

Senior Underwriting Counsel

P: 800.432.9594

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Ditto

Sent from my iPhone

Daniel R. Vega, Esq.
Florida Board Certified in Construction Law
Florida Supreme Court Certified Circuit Court Mediator
Taylor Espino Vega & Touron, PLLC
201 Alhambra Circle, Suite 801
Coral Gables, Florida 33134
Telephone: (305) 443-2043
Facsimile: (305) 443-2048
Cell: (305) 962-5186
E-mail: dvega@tevtlaw.com

On Jul 1, 2020, at 1:20 PM, Jeffrey Price jeff@npw-law.com wrote:


Hang on there Barry:

The lawyer talks to the client. Takes a look at the NOC and the NTO (if one was necessary). Checks the contract (and prime if necessary). Checks the first day and last day of work documentation to make sure there are no obvious or glaring mistakes (or lies). Sees the emails and letters (if any). Asks for the billing records and/or pay applications. Reviews the payments in and out becoming generally familiar with the events. Might even call the Owner (or their lawyer) and ask what’s up? Then prepares and signs the lien as the lienor’s attorney-in-fact (agent, clearly).

“713.08(2) The claim of lien may be prepared by the lienor or the lienor’s employee or attorney and shall be signed and sworn to or affirmed by the lienor or the lienor’s agent acquainted with the facts stated therein.”

Acquainted - Verb: past tense: acquainted; past participle: acquainted - make someone aware of or familiar with. Having personal knowledge of something : having seen or experienced something e.g. “lawyer who is well acquainted with the facts in this case.”:  to knowhttps://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.cambridge.org%2Fus%2Fdictionary%2Fenglish%2Fknow&data=02%7C01%7CDVega%40tevtlaw.com%7Ca5b9bc3da6164c2d13d808d81de301b5%7C77483cb9f33c4c7686e8bcfe43eb03ef%7C0%7C0%7C637292208149494768&sdata=baMsjWy1CsXKoi30cm2GtPQDNK%2Fo5%2BUUYa%2BGhnPyZK0%3D&reserved=0 or be familiarhttps://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.cambridge.org%2Fus%2Fdictionary%2Fenglish%2Ffamiliar&data=02%7C01%7CDVega%40tevtlaw.com%7Ca5b9bc3da6164c2d13d808d81de301b5%7C77483cb9f33c4c7686e8bcfe43eb03ef%7C0%7C0%7C637292208149494768&sdata=fW5%2F10ncvAhBUsMhQlA8uSIiodVevWajsyOQeqrQIrs%3D&reserved=0 with something, because you have studiedhttps://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.cambridge.org%2Fus%2Fdictionary%2Fenglish%2Fstudied&data=02%7C01%7CDVega%40tevtlaw.com%7Ca5b9bc3da6164c2d13d808d81de301b5%7C77483cb9f33c4c7686e8bcfe43eb03ef%7C0%7C0%7C637292208149504762&sdata=0Q0cANEVPiBGPoAzeBfY%2BUuYB11t1DbQMt62wTsJG9k%3D&reserved=0 it or have experiencedhttps://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.cambridge.org%2Fus%2Fdictionary%2Fenglish%2Fexperienced&data=02%7C01%7CDVega%40tevtlaw.com%7Ca5b9bc3da6164c2d13d808d81de301b5%7C77483cb9f33c4c7686e8bcfe43eb03ef%7C0%7C0%7C637292208149504762&sdata=UpMmXJsHNG049QOHi90cDxJ68KQIq9EJn8EkjM1gKSw%3D&reserved=0 it before.

I think I’m acquainted with the sum and substance of the lien I prepared and signed. Don’t we still have a safe-harbor for attorney developed liens?

“This makes a fun day in a deposition.” Whose deposition? The client who tells you they gave all this stuff to the lawyer? Or the lawyer’s deposition? (I’ve sat for one deposition and that was really fun for me, not so much the other lawyer). Maybe that’s what you meant.

Jeff

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From: Barry Kalmanson bkpa1@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2020 12:43 PM
To: bpartington@clarkpartington.com; Jeffrey Price jeff@npw-law.com; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Who can sign liens and releases?

As far as the execution of liens the word "attorney" was removed from the statute in 1977. Now Section 713.08(2) does not provide authority for an attorney to execute liens unless the attorney happens to be "acquainted with the facts stated therein." This highly unlikely unless the attorney also works as an employee of the lienor.  This makes a fun day in a deposition.

As far as releases go any individual with authority (including attorneys) can execute releases. Section 713.20 does not include a limitation on who can sign the releases of lien.

Under Section 713.08(2) the discussion becomes much more interesting as to who can prepare the liens . Many throughout the state that are not permitted are preparing liens. This is clearly the unlicensed practice of law.  The Florida Bar has sent cease and desist letters to various companies and non-lawyer individuals for preparing liens.
Sincerely,

Barry Kalmanson
500 N Maitland Avenue
Suite 305
Maitland, Fl. 32751
407-645-4500 x 215

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-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Partington <bpartington@clarkpartington.commailto:bpartington@clarkpartington.com>
To: Jeffrey Price <jeff@npw-law.commailto:jeff@npw-law.com>; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org>
Sent: Wed, Jul 1, 2020 10:24 am
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Who can sign liens and releases?
For what it’s worth, and 692 is part of it, it’s been my policy for years never to sign liens or releases on behalf of clients. Another reason is that the jurat is taking an oath that what is in it is true, and I think it’s best that clients do that. (A release would formally probably only require an acknowledgement, but a lien definitely requires a jurat).

I think the beginning of 692.01 makes it relatively clear:
Any corporation may execute instruments conveying, mortgaging, or affecting any interest in lands by instruments sealed with the common or corporate seal and signed in its name by its president or any vice president or chief executive officer. Assignments, satisfactions, or partial releases of mortgages and acquittances for debts may be similarly executed by any corporate officer.

But, read carefully, that only applies to acknowledgements, not jurats, because pretty much all instruments affecting any interests in lands, except a construction lien, require only an acknowledgement.

Bruce Partington | Shareholder
bpartington@clarkpartington.commailto:bpartington@clarkpartington.com | (850) 432-1399callto:(850)%20432-1399
CLARK PARTINGTON
Office: (850) 434-9200 | Fax: (850) 432-7340
125 East Intendencia Street, 4th Floor
Pensacola, Florida 32502
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From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of Jeffrey Price
Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2020 9:05 AM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: [CLC-Discussion] Who can sign liens and releases?

Delivered a partial lien release for a single condo where client has a lien on the entire complex. This was the 6th at this condo for routine sales (Miami-Dade) and was no different that the other 5 (or other 20-some in the last 6 months on other complexes). The release was prepared by me (Attorney for Lienor), signed by me as “Agent/Attorney for Lienor.”

Got into a dispute about the release form (not the amount). First they wanted the jurat changed to duplicate the language as of Jan. 1, 2020 (despite the statute saying the jurat “must be in substantially the following form”). Whatever. Fine.

But then this is forwarded to me. I called “Connie” but because I am not a member of “The Fund” she refused to discuss anything and hung up the phone. (You that have dealt with me can understand, hell, I don’t even like talking to me in a mirror).

Question – has anyone ever heard of this line of reasoning? Does 692 have anything to do with 713 liens and releases?

“The release is signed an agent of a Florida corporation.  Under Sec. 692.01, F.S.,  a corporate officer may sign partial releases of mortgages and acquittances for debts. There is no authority for anyone other than a corporate officer to sign such a document.”
connie Clark
Senior Underwriting Counsel

P: 800.432.9594
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That would happen to any client who prepares its own liens lee.

The noc would also be recorded against the wrong property.

What is the point?  That only lawyers should prepare liens?

If lienor can prepare lien, the fact lienor signs it, means client prepared it.  Like anything else. I can draft a letter for you.  If u sign it and send it out, you prepared it.

Sent from my iPhone

Daniel R. Vega, Esq.
Florida Board Certified in Construction Law
Florida Supreme Court Certified Circuit Court Mediator
Taylor Espino Vega & Touron, PLLC
201 Alhambra Circle, Suite 801
Coral Gables, Florida 33134
Telephone: (305) 443-2043
Facsimile: (305) 443-2048
Cell: (305) 962-5186
E-mail: dvega@tevtlaw.com

On Jul 1, 2020, at 2:38 PM, Weintraub, Lee lweintraub@beckerlawyers.com wrote:


And if the NOC was incorrect and she liened the wrong property, I hope she has insurance.  Reliance on an NOC is not a defense to a defective lien.

Lee​            A.              Weintraub
Shareholder
Board Certified in Construction Law
Chair, Public Private Partnerships Practice Group
Vice Chair, Construction Law and Litigation Practice Group
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From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org On Behalf Of Dan Vega
Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2020 2:35 PM
To: Reese J. Henderson, Jr. Reese.Henderson@gray-robinson.com
Cc: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Who can sign liens and releases?

[EXTERNAL EMAIL]
No. But she can copy the legal from the notice of commencement
Sent from my iPhone

Daniel R. Vega, Esq.
Florida Board Certified in Construction Law
Florida Supreme Court Certified Circuit Court Mediator
Taylor Espino Vega & Touron, PLLC
201 Alhambra Circle, Suite 801
Coral Gables, Florida 33134
Telephone: (305) 443-2043
Facsimile: (305) 443-2048
Cell: (305) 962-5186
E-mail: dvega@tevtlaw.commailto:dvega@tevtlaw.com

On Jul 1, 2020, at 1:23 PM, Reese J. Henderson, Jr. <Reese.Henderson@gray-robinson.commailto:Reese.Henderson@gray-robinson.com> wrote:

Here’s a link for the curious - https://caselaw.findlaw.com/fl-supreme-court/1717326.htmlhttps://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcaselaw.findlaw.com%2Ffl-supreme-court%2F1717326.html&data=02%7C01%7Cdvega%40tevtlaw.com%7Cf1ecb890e7eb4df6150708d81dedfd3e%7C77483cb9f33c4c7686e8bcfe43eb03ef%7C0%7C0%7C637292255308126727&sdata=VABy4jNtXvU5l5XO%2BZG9LM5T6A8i9O1x4vTxe22Rscg%3D&reserved=0

Reese J. Henderson, Jr. | Shareholder
Florida Bar Board Certified in Construction Law
Florida Supreme Court Certified Circuit Civil Mediator
G R A Y | R O B I N S O N

50 North Laura Street, Suite 1100 | Jacksonville, Florida 32202
T: 904-598-9929 | F: 904-598-9109 | D: 904-632-8459
E-mailmailto:Reese.Henderson@gray-robinson.com | Websitehttps://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gray-robinson.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cdvega%40tevtlaw.com%7Cf1ecb890e7eb4df6150708d81dedfd3e%7C77483cb9f33c4c7686e8bcfe43eb03ef%7C0%7C0%7C637292255308126727&sdata=a2Q9zOvsK%2BZNQqrMDzK6xxmZioD%2BG%2B4QH%2BpS7zZ6quc%3D&reserved=0 | Biohttps://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gray-robinson.com%2Fattorneys%2Fdetail%2F1022%2FReeseJ-HendersonJr&data=02%7C01%7Cdvega%40tevtlaw.com%7Cf1ecb890e7eb4df6150708d81dedfd3e%7C77483cb9f33c4c7686e8bcfe43eb03ef%7C0%7C0%7C637292255308136715&sdata=j%2BwKYOk50gQGLBy9IgIEtT4a1GoEQi6dX2QpCFmNN9k%3D&reserved=0 | vCardhttps://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gray-robinson.com%2Fdocs%2FReese%2520Henderson.vcf&data=02%7C01%7Cdvega%40tevtlaw.com%7Cf1ecb890e7eb4df6150708d81dedfd3e%7C77483cb9f33c4c7686e8bcfe43eb03ef%7C0%7C0%7C637292255308146716&sdata=PVksuVv%2BOukaalwu9nF277afxNWbFSj9JY6o3C9rOy4%3D&reserved=0

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From: Adam C. Linkhorst <ACL@floridahardhatlaw.commailto:ACL@floridahardhatlaw.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2020 1:18 PM
To: Reese J. Henderson, Jr. <Reese.Henderson@gray-robinson.commailto:Reese.Henderson@gray-robinson.com>; Dan Vega <DVega@TEVTLaw.commailto:DVega@TEVTLaw.com>; Barry Kalmanson <bkpa1@aol.commailto:bkpa1@aol.com>
Cc: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Who can sign liens and releases?

This message originated outside of GrayRobinson.

Take a look at SC13-889. It may be helpful. Deals with property mangers but seems very instruction and has a lot behind it.

Adam C. Linkhorst, Esq.
Linkhorst & Hockin, P.A.
C - 954.562.9199
W - 561.626.8880

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> on behalf of Reese J. Henderson, Jr. <Reese.Henderson@gray-robinson.commailto:Reese.Henderson@gray-robinson.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2020 11:09:26 AM
To: Dan Vega <DVega@TEVTLaw.commailto:DVega@TEVTLaw.com>; Barry Kalmanson <bkpa1@aol.commailto:bkpa1@aol.com>
Cc: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org>
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Who can sign liens and releases?

Dan:  Does your 15 year old daughter know how to prepare a proper legal description of the property that your client’s lien will encumber?  Does your daughter, or any layperson for that matter, appreciate the gravity and potential ramifications of making an error in the calculation of the lien amount (i.e., fraudulent lien exposure)?  Preparing a lien is hardly a trivial task.

Reese J. Henderson, Jr. | Shareholder
Florida Bar Board Certified in Construction Law
Florida Supreme Court Certified Circuit Civil Mediator
G R A Y | R O B I N S O N

50 North Laura Street, Suite 1100 | Jacksonville, Florida 32202
T: 904-598-9929 | F: 904-598-9109 | D: 904-632-8459
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From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of Dan Vega
Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2020 1:01 PM
To: Barry Kalmanson <bkpa1@aol.commailto:bkpa1@aol.com>
Cc: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Who can sign liens and releases?

This message originated outside of GrayRobinson.

What does prepare the lien mean?

My 15 year old daughter can take the form in the statute and fill the blanks with the info provided by a client.  The client then signs it.

Who prepared the lien?

Sent from my iPhone

Daniel R. Vega, Esq.

Florida Board Certified in Construction Law

Florida Supreme Court Certified Circuit Court Mediator

Taylor Espino Vega & Touron, PLLC

201 Alhambra Circle, Suite 801

Coral Gables, Florida 33134

Telephone: (305) 443-2043

Facsimile: (305) 443-2048

Cell: (305) 962-5186

E-mail: dvega@tevtlaw.commailto:dvega@tevtlaw.com

On Jul 1, 2020, at 12:52 PM, Barry Kalmanson <bkpa1@aol.commailto:bkpa1@aol.com> wrote:



As far as the execution of liens the word "attorney" was removed from the statute in 1977. Now Section 713.08(2) does not provide authority for an attorney to execute liens unless the attorney happens to be "acquainted with the facts stated therein." This highly unlikely unless the attorney also works as an employee of the lienor.  This makes a fun day in a deposition.

As far as releases go any individual with authority (including attorneys) can execute releases. Section 713.20 does not include a limitation on who can sign the releases of lien.

Under Section 713.08(2) the discussion becomes much more interesting as to who can prepare the liens . Many throughout the state that are not permitted are preparing liens. This is clearly the unlicensed practice of law.  The Florida Bar has sent cease and desist letters to various companies and non-lawyer individuals for preparing liens.

Sincerely,

Barry Kalmanson

500 N Maitland Avenue

Suite 305

Maitland, Fl. 32751

407-645-4500 x 215

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-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Partington <bpartington@clarkpartington.commailto:bpartington@clarkpartington.com>
To: Jeffrey Price <jeff@npw-law.commailto:jeff@npw-law.com>; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org>
Sent: Wed, Jul 1, 2020 10:24 am
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Who can sign liens and releases?

For what it’s worth, and 692 is part of it, it’s been my policy for years never to sign liens or releases on behalf of clients. Another reason is that the jurat is taking an oath that what is in it is true, and I think it’s best that clients do that. (A release would formally probably only require an acknowledgement, but a lien definitely requires a jurat).

I think the beginning of 692.01 makes it relatively clear:

Any corporation may execute instruments conveying, mortgaging, or affecting any interest in lands by instruments sealed with the common or corporate seal and signed in its name by its president or any vice president or chief executive officer. Assignments, satisfactions, or partial releases of mortgages and acquittances for debts may be similarly executed by any corporate officer.

But, read carefully, that only applies to acknowledgements, not jurats, because pretty much all instruments affecting any interests in lands, except a construction lien, require only an acknowledgement.

Bruce Partington | Shareholder
bpartington@clarkpartington.commailto:bpartington@clarkpartington.com | (850) 432-1399callto:(850)%20432-1399

CLARK PARTINGTON
Office: (850) 434-9200 | Fax: (850) 432-7340
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From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of Jeffrey Price
Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2020 9:05 AM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: [CLC-Discussion] Who can sign liens and releases?

Delivered a partial lien release for a single condo where client has a lien on the entire complex. This was the 6th at this condo for routine sales (Miami-Dade) and was no different that the other 5 (or other 20-some in the last 6 months on other complexes). The release was prepared by me (Attorney for Lienor), signed by me as “Agent/Attorney for Lienor.”

Got into a dispute about the release form (not the amount). First they wanted the jurat changed to duplicate the language as of Jan. 1, 2020 (despite the statute saying the jurat “must be in substantially the following form”). Whatever. Fine.

But then this is forwarded to me. I called “Connie” but because I am not a member of “The Fund” she refused to discuss anything and hung up the phone. (You that have dealt with me can understand, hell, I don’t even like talking to me in a mirror).

Question – has anyone ever heard of this line of reasoning? Does 692 have anything to do with 713 liens and releases?

“The release is signed an agent of a Florida corporation.  Under Sec. 692.01, F.S.,  a corporate officer may sign partial releases of mortgages and acquittances for debts. There is no authority for anyone other than a corporate officer to sign such a document.”

connie Clark

Senior Underwriting Counsel

P: 800.432.9594

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Clients can always do things for themselves.  If a third party does it for someone else, that third party needs to be a lawyer (in this situation).

Lee A. Weintraub
Shareholder
Board Certified in Construction Law
Chair, Public Private Partnerships Practice Group
Vice Chair, Construction Law and Litigation Practice Group
Becker & Poliakoff
1 East Broward Blvd., Suite 1800
Ft. Lauderdale,
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From: Dan Vega DVega@TEVTLaw.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2020 3:22 PM
To: Weintraub, Lee lweintraub@beckerlawyers.com
Cc: Reese J. Henderson, Jr. Reese.Henderson@gray-robinson.com; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Who can sign liens and releases?

[EXTERNAL EMAIL]
That would happen to any client who prepares its own liens lee.

The noc would also be recorded against the wrong property.

What is the point?  That only lawyers should prepare liens?

If lienor can prepare lien, the fact lienor signs it, means client prepared it.  Like anything else. I can draft a letter for you.  If u sign it and send it out, you prepared it.
Sent from my iPhone

Daniel R. Vega, Esq.
Florida Board Certified in Construction Law
Florida Supreme Court Certified Circuit Court Mediator
Taylor Espino Vega & Touron, PLLC
201 Alhambra Circle, Suite 801
Coral Gables, Florida 33134
Telephone: (305) 443-2043
Facsimile: (305) 443-2048
Cell: (305) 962-5186
E-mail: dvega@tevtlaw.commailto:dvega@tevtlaw.com

On Jul 1, 2020, at 2:38 PM, Weintraub, Lee <lweintraub@beckerlawyers.commailto:lweintraub@beckerlawyers.com> wrote:

And if the NOC was incorrect and she liened the wrong property, I hope she has insurance.  Reliance on an NOC is not a defense to a defective lien.

Lee​

A.

Weintraub
Shareholder
Board Certified in Construction Law
Chair, Public Private Partnerships Practice Group
Vice Chair, Construction Law and Litigation Practice Group
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From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of Dan Vega
Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2020 2:35 PM
To: Reese J. Henderson, Jr. <Reese.Henderson@gray-robinson.commailto:Reese.Henderson@gray-robinson.com>
Cc: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Who can sign liens and releases?

[EXTERNAL EMAIL]
No. But she can copy the legal from the notice of commencement
Sent from my iPhone

Daniel R. Vega, Esq.
Florida Board Certified in Construction Law
Florida Supreme Court Certified Circuit Court Mediator
Taylor Espino Vega & Touron, PLLC
201 Alhambra Circle, Suite 801
Coral Gables, Florida 33134
Telephone: (305) 443-2043
Facsimile: (305) 443-2048
Cell: (305) 962-5186
E-mail: dvega@tevtlaw.commailto:dvega@tevtlaw.com

On Jul 1, 2020, at 1:23 PM, Reese J. Henderson, Jr. <Reese.Henderson@gray-robinson.commailto:Reese.Henderson@gray-robinson.com> wrote:

Here’s a link for the curious - https://caselaw.findlaw.com/fl-supreme-court/1717326.htmlhttps://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcaselaw.findlaw.com%2Ffl-supreme-court%2F1717326.html&data=02%7C01%7Cdvega%40tevtlaw.com%7Cf1ecb890e7eb4df6150708d81dedfd3e%7C77483cb9f33c4c7686e8bcfe43eb03ef%7C0%7C0%7C637292255308126727&sdata=VABy4jNtXvU5l5XO%2BZG9LM5T6A8i9O1x4vTxe22Rscg%3D&reserved=0

Reese J. Henderson, Jr. | Shareholder
Florida Bar Board Certified in Construction Law
Florida Supreme Court Certified Circuit Civil Mediator
G R A Y | R O B I N S O N

50 North Laura Street, Suite 1100 | Jacksonville, Florida 32202
T: 904-598-9929 | F: 904-598-9109 | D: 904-632-8459
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From: Adam C. Linkhorst <ACL@floridahardhatlaw.commailto:ACL@floridahardhatlaw.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2020 1:18 PM
To: Reese J. Henderson, Jr. <Reese.Henderson@gray-robinson.commailto:Reese.Henderson@gray-robinson.com>; Dan Vega <DVega@TEVTLaw.commailto:DVega@TEVTLaw.com>; Barry Kalmanson <bkpa1@aol.commailto:bkpa1@aol.com>
Cc: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Who can sign liens and releases?

This message originated outside of GrayRobinson.

Take a look at SC13-889. It may be helpful. Deals with property mangers but seems very instruction and has a lot behind it.

Adam C. Linkhorst, Esq.
Linkhorst & Hockin, P.A.
C - 954.562.9199
W - 561.626.8880

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> on behalf of Reese J. Henderson, Jr. <Reese.Henderson@gray-robinson.commailto:Reese.Henderson@gray-robinson.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2020 11:09:26 AM
To: Dan Vega <DVega@TEVTLaw.commailto:DVega@TEVTLaw.com>; Barry Kalmanson <bkpa1@aol.commailto:bkpa1@aol.com>
Cc: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org>
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Who can sign liens and releases?

Dan:  Does your 15 year old daughter know how to prepare a proper legal description of the property that your client’s lien will encumber?  Does your daughter, or any layperson for that matter, appreciate the gravity and potential ramifications of making an error in the calculation of the lien amount (i.e., fraudulent lien exposure)?  Preparing a lien is hardly a trivial task.

Reese J. Henderson, Jr. | Shareholder
Florida Bar Board Certified in Construction Law
Florida Supreme Court Certified Circuit Civil Mediator
G R A Y | R O B I N S O N

50 North Laura Street, Suite 1100 | Jacksonville, Florida 32202
T: 904-598-9929 | F: 904-598-9109 | D: 904-632-8459
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From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of Dan Vega
Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2020 1:01 PM
To: Barry Kalmanson <bkpa1@aol.commailto:bkpa1@aol.com>
Cc: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Who can sign liens and releases?

This message originated outside of GrayRobinson.

What does prepare the lien mean?

My 15 year old daughter can take the form in the statute and fill the blanks with the info provided by a client.  The client then signs it.

Who prepared the lien?

Sent from my iPhone

Daniel R. Vega, Esq.

Florida Board Certified in Construction Law

Florida Supreme Court Certified Circuit Court Mediator

Taylor Espino Vega & Touron, PLLC

201 Alhambra Circle, Suite 801

Coral Gables, Florida 33134

Telephone: (305) 443-2043

Facsimile: (305) 443-2048

Cell: (305) 962-5186

E-mail: dvega@tevtlaw.commailto:dvega@tevtlaw.com

On Jul 1, 2020, at 12:52 PM, Barry Kalmanson <bkpa1@aol.commailto:bkpa1@aol.com> wrote:



As far as the execution of liens the word "attorney" was removed from the statute in 1977. Now Section 713.08(2) does not provide authority for an attorney to execute liens unless the attorney happens to be "acquainted with the facts stated therein." This highly unlikely unless the attorney also works as an employee of the lienor.  This makes a fun day in a deposition.

As far as releases go any individual with authority (including attorneys) can execute releases. Section 713.20 does not include a limitation on who can sign the releases of lien.

Under Section 713.08(2) the discussion becomes much more interesting as to who can prepare the liens . Many throughout the state that are not permitted are preparing liens. This is clearly the unlicensed practice of law.  The Florida Bar has sent cease and desist letters to various companies and non-lawyer individuals for preparing liens.

Sincerely,

Barry Kalmanson

500 N Maitland Avenue

Suite 305

Maitland, Fl. 32751

407-645-4500 x 215

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-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Partington <bpartington@clarkpartington.commailto:bpartington@clarkpartington.com>
To: Jeffrey Price <jeff@npw-law.commailto:jeff@npw-law.com>; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org>
Sent: Wed, Jul 1, 2020 10:24 am
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Who can sign liens and releases?

For what it’s worth, and 692 is part of it, it’s been my policy for years never to sign liens or releases on behalf of clients. Another reason is that the jurat is taking an oath that what is in it is true, and I think it’s best that clients do that. (A release would formally probably only require an acknowledgement, but a lien definitely requires a jurat).

I think the beginning of 692.01 makes it relatively clear:

Any corporation may execute instruments conveying, mortgaging, or affecting any interest in lands by instruments sealed with the common or corporate seal and signed in its name by its president or any vice president or chief executive officer. Assignments, satisfactions, or partial releases of mortgages and acquittances for debts may be similarly executed by any corporate officer.

But, read carefully, that only applies to acknowledgements, not jurats, because pretty much all instruments affecting any interests in lands, except a construction lien, require only an acknowledgement.

Bruce Partington | Shareholder
bpartington@clarkpartington.commailto:bpartington@clarkpartington.com | (850) 432-1399callto:(850)%20432-1399

CLARK PARTINGTON
Office: (850) 434-9200 | Fax: (850) 432-7340
125 East Intendencia Street, 4th Floor
Pensacola, Florida 32502
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From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of Jeffrey Price
Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2020 9:05 AM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: [CLC-Discussion] Who can sign liens and releases?

Delivered a partial lien release for a single condo where client has a lien on the entire complex. This was the 6th at this condo for routine sales (Miami-Dade) and was no different that the other 5 (or other 20-some in the last 6 months on other complexes). The release was prepared by me (Attorney for Lienor), signed by me as “Agent/Attorney for Lienor.”

Got into a dispute about the release form (not the amount). First they wanted the jurat changed to duplicate the language as of Jan. 1, 2020 (despite the statute saying the jurat “must be in substantially the following form”). Whatever. Fine.

But then this is forwarded to me. I called “Connie” but because I am not a member of “The Fund” she refused to discuss anything and hung up the phone. (You that have dealt with me can understand, hell, I don’t even like talking to me in a mirror).

Question – has anyone ever heard of this line of reasoning? Does 692 have anything to do with 713 liens and releases?

“The release is signed an agent of a Florida corporation.  Under Sec. 692.01, F.S.,  a corporate officer may sign partial releases of mortgages and acquittances for debts. There is no authority for anyone other than a corporate officer to sign such a document.”

connie Clark

Senior Underwriting Counsel

P: 800.432.9594

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Again, if an employee of the client prepares the form and it is reviewed and signed by the owner’s president, the lienor prepared it.

if the lienor’s president’s daughter types up the form consulting with her dad and the dad/president reviews and signs it, it is same thing – the lienor prepared it.

If the lienor goes to his lawyers office (Becker and Poliakoff) to meet you to help him fill out the form, and you do but he reviews and signs it,  Lienor prepared it.

Daniel R. Vega, Esq.
Florida Board Certified in Construction Law
Florida Supreme Court Certified Circuit Court Mediator
Taylor Espino Vega & Touron, PLLC
201 Alhambra Circle, Suite 801
Coral Gables, Florida 33134
Telephone: (305) 443-2043
Facsimile:  (305) 443-2048
Cell:  (305) 962-5186
E-mail: dvega@tevtlaw.commailto:dvega@tevtlaw.com
www.tevtlaw.comhttp://www.tevtlaw.com

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The information contained in this email message is intended only for the personal and confidential use of the recipient(s) named above. This message may be an attorney–client communication and as such is privileged and confidential. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this document in error and that any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail, and delete the original message.

From: Weintraub, Lee lweintraub@beckerlawyers.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2020 3:23 PM
To: Dan Vega DVega@TEVTLaw.com
Cc: Reese J. Henderson, Jr. Reese.Henderson@gray-robinson.com; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: RE: [CLC-Discussion] Who can sign liens and releases?

Clients can always do things for themselves.  If a third party does it for someone else, that third party needs to be a lawyer (in this situation).

Lee​

A.

Weintraub
Shareholder
Board Certified in Construction Law
Chair, Public Private Partnerships Practice Group
Vice Chair, Construction Law and Litigation Practice Group
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From: Dan Vega <DVega@TEVTLaw.commailto:DVega@TEVTLaw.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2020 3:22 PM
To: Weintraub, Lee <lweintraub@beckerlawyers.commailto:lweintraub@beckerlawyers.com>
Cc: Reese J. Henderson, Jr. <Reese.Henderson@gray-robinson.commailto:Reese.Henderson@gray-robinson.com>; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Who can sign liens and releases?

[EXTERNAL EMAIL]
That would happen to any client who prepares its own liens lee.

The noc would also be recorded against the wrong property.

What is the point?  That only lawyers should prepare liens?

If lienor can prepare lien, the fact lienor signs it, means client prepared it.  Like anything else. I can draft a letter for you.  If u sign it and send it out, you prepared it.
Sent from my iPhone

Daniel R. Vega, Esq.
Florida Board Certified in Construction Law
Florida Supreme Court Certified Circuit Court Mediator
Taylor Espino Vega & Touron, PLLC
201 Alhambra Circle, Suite 801
Coral Gables, Florida 33134
Telephone: (305) 443-2043
Facsimile: (305) 443-2048
Cell: (305) 962-5186
E-mail: dvega@tevtlaw.commailto:dvega@tevtlaw.com

On Jul 1, 2020, at 2:38 PM, Weintraub, Lee <lweintraub@beckerlawyers.commailto:lweintraub@beckerlawyers.com> wrote:

And if the NOC was incorrect and she liened the wrong property, I hope she has insurance.  Reliance on an NOC is not a defense to a defective lien.

Lee​

A.

Weintraub
Shareholder
Board Certified in Construction Law
Chair, Public Private Partnerships Practice Group
Vice Chair, Construction Law and Litigation Practice Group
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From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of Dan Vega
Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2020 2:35 PM
To: Reese J. Henderson, Jr. <Reese.Henderson@gray-robinson.commailto:Reese.Henderson@gray-robinson.com>
Cc: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Who can sign liens and releases?

[EXTERNAL EMAIL]
No. But she can copy the legal from the notice of commencement
Sent from my iPhone

Daniel R. Vega, Esq.
Florida Board Certified in Construction Law
Florida Supreme Court Certified Circuit Court Mediator
Taylor Espino Vega & Touron, PLLC
201 Alhambra Circle, Suite 801
Coral Gables, Florida 33134
Telephone: (305) 443-2043
Facsimile: (305) 443-2048
Cell: (305) 962-5186
E-mail: dvega@tevtlaw.commailto:dvega@tevtlaw.com

On Jul 1, 2020, at 1:23 PM, Reese J. Henderson, Jr. <Reese.Henderson@gray-robinson.commailto:Reese.Henderson@gray-robinson.com> wrote:

Here’s a link for the curious - https://caselaw.findlaw.com/fl-supreme-court/1717326.htmlhttps://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcaselaw.findlaw.com%2Ffl-supreme-court%2F1717326.html&data=02%7C01%7Cdvega%40tevtlaw.com%7C4e7aa5f896c84ab2646908d81df43f6e%7C77483cb9f33c4c7686e8bcfe43eb03ef%7C0%7C0%7C637292282176796094&sdata=D1xaNdWc2uKq0Wp2UkdClPnqENNnKj3%2BzcXVytPk0mY%3D&reserved=0

Reese J. Henderson, Jr. | Shareholder
Florida Bar Board Certified in Construction Law
Florida Supreme Court Certified Circuit Civil Mediator
G R A Y | R O B I N S O N

50 North Laura Street, Suite 1100 | Jacksonville, Florida 32202
T: 904-598-9929 | F: 904-598-9109 | D: 904-632-8459
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From: Adam C. Linkhorst <ACL@floridahardhatlaw.commailto:ACL@floridahardhatlaw.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2020 1:18 PM
To: Reese J. Henderson, Jr. <Reese.Henderson@gray-robinson.commailto:Reese.Henderson@gray-robinson.com>; Dan Vega <DVega@TEVTLaw.commailto:DVega@TEVTLaw.com>; Barry Kalmanson <bkpa1@aol.commailto:bkpa1@aol.com>
Cc: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Who can sign liens and releases?

This message originated outside of GrayRobinson.

Take a look at SC13-889. It may be helpful. Deals with property mangers but seems very instruction and has a lot behind it.

Adam C. Linkhorst, Esq.
Linkhorst & Hockin, P.A.
C - 954.562.9199
W - 561.626.8880

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> on behalf of Reese J. Henderson, Jr. <Reese.Henderson@gray-robinson.commailto:Reese.Henderson@gray-robinson.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2020 11:09:26 AM
To: Dan Vega <DVega@TEVTLaw.commailto:DVega@TEVTLaw.com>; Barry Kalmanson <bkpa1@aol.commailto:bkpa1@aol.com>
Cc: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org>
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Who can sign liens and releases?

Dan:  Does your 15 year old daughter know how to prepare a proper legal description of the property that your client’s lien will encumber?  Does your daughter, or any layperson for that matter, appreciate the gravity and potential ramifications of making an error in the calculation of the lien amount (i.e., fraudulent lien exposure)?  Preparing a lien is hardly a trivial task.

Reese J. Henderson, Jr. | Shareholder
Florida Bar Board Certified in Construction Law
Florida Supreme Court Certified Circuit Civil Mediator
G R A Y | R O B I N S O N

50 North Laura Street, Suite 1100 | Jacksonville, Florida 32202
T: 904-598-9929 | F: 904-598-9109 | D: 904-632-8459
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From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of Dan Vega
Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2020 1:01 PM
To: Barry Kalmanson <bkpa1@aol.commailto:bkpa1@aol.com>
Cc: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Who can sign liens and releases?

This message originated outside of GrayRobinson.

What does prepare the lien mean?

My 15 year old daughter can take the form in the statute and fill the blanks with the info provided by a client.  The client then signs it.

Who prepared the lien?

Sent from my iPhone

Daniel R. Vega, Esq.

Florida Board Certified in Construction Law

Florida Supreme Court Certified Circuit Court Mediator

Taylor Espino Vega & Touron, PLLC

201 Alhambra Circle, Suite 801

Coral Gables, Florida 33134

Telephone: (305) 443-2043

Facsimile: (305) 443-2048

Cell: (305) 962-5186

E-mail: dvega@tevtlaw.commailto:dvega@tevtlaw.com

On Jul 1, 2020, at 12:52 PM, Barry Kalmanson <bkpa1@aol.commailto:bkpa1@aol.com> wrote:



As far as the execution of liens the word "attorney" was removed from the statute in 1977. Now Section 713.08(2) does not provide authority for an attorney to execute liens unless the attorney happens to be "acquainted with the facts stated therein." This highly unlikely unless the attorney also works as an employee of the lienor.  This makes a fun day in a deposition.

As far as releases go any individual with authority (including attorneys) can execute releases. Section 713.20 does not include a limitation on who can sign the releases of lien.

Under Section 713.08(2) the discussion becomes much more interesting as to who can prepare the liens . Many throughout the state that are not permitted are preparing liens. This is clearly the unlicensed practice of law.  The Florida Bar has sent cease and desist letters to various companies and non-lawyer individuals for preparing liens.

Sincerely,

Barry Kalmanson

500 N Maitland Avenue

Suite 305

Maitland, Fl. 32751

407-645-4500 x 215

http://www.barrykalmanson.com/https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.barrykalmanson.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cdvega%40tevtlaw.com%7C4e7aa5f896c84ab2646908d81df43f6e%7C77483cb9f33c4c7686e8bcfe43eb03ef%7C0%7C0%7C637292282176845874&sdata=MEXP%2BuYHcs5uBfy%2Frdc7bElDfJH7rAfQqUmPRKv5iGw%3D&reserved=0

-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Partington <bpartington@clarkpartington.commailto:bpartington@clarkpartington.com>
To: Jeffrey Price <jeff@npw-law.commailto:jeff@npw-law.com>; clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org>
Sent: Wed, Jul 1, 2020 10:24 am
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Who can sign liens and releases?

For what it’s worth, and 692 is part of it, it’s been my policy for years never to sign liens or releases on behalf of clients. Another reason is that the jurat is taking an oath that what is in it is true, and I think it’s best that clients do that. (A release would formally probably only require an acknowledgement, but a lien definitely requires a jurat).

I think the beginning of 692.01 makes it relatively clear:

Any corporation may execute instruments conveying, mortgaging, or affecting any interest in lands by instruments sealed with the common or corporate seal and signed in its name by its president or any vice president or chief executive officer. Assignments, satisfactions, or partial releases of mortgages and acquittances for debts may be similarly executed by any corporate officer.

But, read carefully, that only applies to acknowledgements, not jurats, because pretty much all instruments affecting any interests in lands, except a construction lien, require only an acknowledgement.

Bruce Partington | Shareholder
bpartington@clarkpartington.commailto:bpartington@clarkpartington.com | (850) 432-1399callto:(850)%20432-1399

CLARK PARTINGTON
Office: (850) 434-9200 | Fax: (850) 432-7340
125 East Intendencia Street, 4th Floor
Pensacola, Florida 32502
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From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of Jeffrey Price
Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2020 9:05 AM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: [CLC-Discussion] Who can sign liens and releases?

Delivered a partial lien release for a single condo where client has a lien on the entire complex. This was the 6th at this condo for routine sales (Miami-Dade) and was no different that the other 5 (or other 20-some in the last 6 months on other complexes). The release was prepared by me (Attorney for Lienor), signed by me as “Agent/Attorney for Lienor.”

Got into a dispute about the release form (not the amount). First they wanted the jurat changed to duplicate the language as of Jan. 1, 2020 (despite the statute saying the jurat “must be in substantially the following form”). Whatever. Fine.

But then this is forwarded to me. I called “Connie” but because I am not a member of “The Fund” she refused to discuss anything and hung up the phone. (You that have dealt with me can understand, hell, I don’t even like talking to me in a mirror).

Question – has anyone ever heard of this line of reasoning? Does 692 have anything to do with 713 liens and releases?

“The release is signed an agent of a Florida corporation.  Under Sec. 692.01, F.S.,  a corporate officer may sign partial releases of mortgages and acquittances for debts. There is no authority for anyone other than a corporate officer to sign such a document.”

connie Clark

Senior Underwriting Counsel

P: 800.432.9594

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