If Jeff says we shouldn’t do it, now I KNOW it needs to happen.

In all seriousness though, I think it would be good public policy all around to add it.  It doesn’t hurt any of the subs or suppliers we represent.  They still have valid liens.  It adds some consumer protection for the (perhaps lazy/cheap, or just helplessly uninformed) owner.  It adds another tool in the tool box for us to use and possibly have a fee award.  The only person it’s bad for is the GC that didn’t pay his subs/suppliers.  Even if they had a legitimate reason for non-payment, it probably shouldn’t be the owner’s fight.

[cid:image002.jpg@01D6AD44.F4172FF0]
Robert E. Doan
Board Certified Construction Attorney
Supreme Court Certified Circuit Civil Mediator
231 N. Woodland Blvd.
DeLand, FL 32720
(P) 386-736-7700 | (F) 386-785-1549

Offices In Daytona Beach and DeLand

Websitehttp://www.cobbcole.com/ | Biohttp://www.cobbcole.com/The-Cobb-Cole-Team/Robert-E-Doan.shtml | vCardhttp://www.cobbcole.com/content/includes/vCards/Robert-E-Doan.vcf

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 3:54 PM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] 713.346: Time to let Owners in on the party?

In response to Rob’s original question (“Can anyone think of a compelling reason why 713.346 should not be amended to add a statutory cause of action (with a right to prevailing party fees) for an Owner who is harmed by a lienor’s failure to pay a lower tier lienor?”) – YES. Because of the next part – (“I know the owner should be getting all the proper releases in order to give themselves a proper payment defense, but . . .”). The “but” part is not a good reason to make a change. It is frustrating, “but” everyone has a job to do and the Owner saving a buck by being his own lawyer and getting hosed is no different than a CG saving a buck by being their own lawyer and getting hosed. Hard to legislate away ignorance.
As for Mikes response, I agree - getting a persecutor to give a damn is worthless. The best recourse I’ve found is DBPR. Free, and causes insufferable pain to the contractor. It has always resulted in payment for me because the crappy contractor needs their ticket so they can continue cheating others.

[cid:image003.png@01D6AD44.FC9C4750]https://www.npw-law.com/

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 3:03 PM
To: 'clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org' <clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org>
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] 713.346: Time to let Owners in on the party?

Hi Larry!!!!! :0)

[cid:image005.jpg@01D6AD44.F4172FF0]http://www.kubickidraper.com/
Michelle M. Kronehttp://www.kubickidraper.com/staff_detail11.php?MemberID=33
Shareholder
Board Certified Construction Lawyer
Direct  (239) 461-8103
Fax      (239) 939-0700
mmk@kubickidraper.commailto:mmk@kubickidraper.com
13350 Metro Parkway Suite 401http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=13350%20Metro%20Parkway%20Suite%20401+Fort%20Myers,+Florida+33966
Fort Myers, Florida 33966http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=13350%20Metro%20Parkway%20Suite%20401+Fort%20Myers,+Florida+33966

                                            [cid:image006.png@01D6AD44.F4172FF0] <https://www.linkedin.com/company/kubicki-draper/>  [cid:image007.png@01D6AD44.F4172FF0] <https://twitter.com/KubickiDraper>

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 2:54 PM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] 713.346: Time to let Owners in on the party?

You only include the “scary seeming remedies”  (whatever those are) when the contract is drafted within a week of Halloween.  😊

Larry R. Leiby
Larry R. Leiby, Esq.
Adjunct Professor, Florida International University College of Law
Florida Bar Board Certified Construction Law Expert
Emeritus Fellow, American College of Commercial Arbitrators

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 2:50 PM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] 713.346: Time to let Owners in on the party?

Presently my take away from this scenario is that when drafting a contract on behalf of an owner you should always include a specific payment indemnity with lots of scary seeming remedies.

Sincerely,

Peter B. Rowell
Board Certified Construction Attorney
The Law Office of Peter B. Rowell, P.A.
8950 S.W. 74th Court Suite 2201 A-71
Miami, Florida 33156
Phone: (305) 998-9657
[http://kristinlowedesign.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/PeterRowellLogo.jpg]
This e-mail communication (including any attachments) may contain legally privileged and confidential information intended solely for the use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, you should immediately cease reading this message and delete it from your system. Any unauthorized reading, distribution, copying or other use of this communication (or its attachments) is strictly prohibited.

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 2:19 PM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] 713.346: Time to let Owners in on the party?

I recently encountered this- the bad actor admitted they had been paid and did not pay my client -  I was shocked at the lack of causes of action to chase the money – yes , it’s a crime , but that does not really get the money back

Kevin J. Taylor, Esq.
Kevin J. Taylor, P.A.
2455 East Sunrise Boulevard
Suite 512
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 33304
954-530-0889

[cid:image009.png@01D6AD44.F4172FF0][cid:image010.png@01D6AD44.F4172FF0]

www.kevintaylorlaw.comhttp://www.kevintaylorlaw.com/

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 2:04 PM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] 713.346: Time to let Owners in on the party?

It would be great to be able to plead the permissive inference in Fla. Stat. § 713.345(1)(c) and not try to “shoehorn” it into a cause of action. Can’t be the basis for a civil theft claim.

Thank you,
Jack
Jack Taylor, Esq.
Associate Attorney

Williams Law Firm
212 W. Bay Ave
Longwood, FL 32750
Telephone: 407-926-4100

Jack@WCLfirm.commailto:gtwlaw@ymail.com
www.WCLFirm.comhttp://www.wclfirm.com/
[cid:image011.jpg@01D6AD44.F4172FF0]

In some circumstances this firm may be deemed a “debt collector” as defined by the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act and other applicable law. In such a case, this is an attempt to collect a debt. Any communication obtained may be used for that purpose.

Important – Williams Law Firm utilizes spam and junk email filtration applications in its email information systems. These systems may prevent or delay delivery of certain email communications. If you do not receive a response to an email communication within two business days, please contact the intended recipient via phone.
This email message including attachments, if any, is intended for the use of the individual or entity named above and may contain attorney-client confidential and/or privileged information.  If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, use, disclosure, copying, or distribution is strictly prohibited.  If you have received this email message in error, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message including attachments.  Thank you.
Pursuant to federal regulations imposed on practitioners who render tax advice ("Circular 230"), we are required to advise you that any tax advice contained herein is not intended or written to be used for the purpose of avoiding tax penalties that may be imposed by the Internal Revenue Service.  If this advice is or is intended to be used or referred to in promoting, marketing or recommending a partnership or other entity, investment plan or arrangement, the regulations under Circular 230 require that we advise you as follows: (1) this writing is not intended or written to be used, and it cannot be used, for the purpose of avoiding tax penalties that may be imposed on a taxpayer; (2) the advice was written to support the promotion or marketing of the transaction(s) or matter(s) addressed by the written advice; and (3) the taxpayer should seek advice based on the taxpayer's particular circumstances from an independent tax advisor.

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 1:31 PM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] 713.346: Time to let Owners in on the party?

I agree with both of you but think  713.346  would be the better place to make the change.

Notice: The information contained in this email transmission is intended by the sender for the use of the named individual or entity to which it is directed and may contain information that is privileged or otherwise confidential. It is not intended for transmission to, or receipt by, anyone other than the named addressee (or a person authorized to deliver it to the named addressee). It should not be copied or forwarded to any unauthorized persons. If you have received this electronic mail transmission in error, please delete it from your system without copying or forwarding it, and notify the sender of the error by reply email or by calling Cobb Cole at 386-255-8171, so that we can update our address records accordingly.

Wow. All you Republicans are worried about protecting consumers? My subs and suppliers must strictly comply but close enough is ok for consumers? Change the law? Didn’t hear this about 558. You go Rob. Biden in 2020!

Jeffrey L Price
NPWC, PA
5216 SW 91st Dr., Gainesville FL
352-373-9031

On Oct 28, 2020, at 4:23 PM, RPPTL CLC-Discussion clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org wrote:


If Jeff says we shouldn’t do it, now I KNOW it needs to happen.

In all seriousness though, I think it would be good public policy all around to add it.  It doesn’t hurt any of the subs or suppliers we represent.  They still have valid liens.  It adds some consumer protection for the (perhaps lazy/cheap, or just helplessly uninformed) owner.  It adds another tool in the tool box for us to use and possibly have a fee award.  The only person it’s bad for is the GC that didn’t pay his subs/suppliers.  Even if they had a legitimate reason for non-payment, it probably shouldn’t be the owner’s fight.

<image002.jpg>
Robert E. Doan
Board Certified Construction Attorney
Supreme Court Certified Circuit Civil Mediator
231 N. Woodland Blvd.
DeLand, FL 32720
(P) 386-736-7700 | (F) 386-785-1549

Offices In Daytona Beach and DeLand

Websitehttp://www.cobbcole.com/ | Biohttp://www.cobbcole.com/The-Cobb-Cole-Team/Robert-E-Doan.shtml | vCardhttp://www.cobbcole.com/content/includes/vCards/Robert-E-Doan.vcf

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 3:54 PM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] 713.346: Time to let Owners in on the party?

In response to Rob’s original question (“Can anyone think of a compelling reason why 713.346 should not be amended to add a statutory cause of action (with a right to prevailing party fees) for an Owner who is harmed by a lienor’s failure to pay a lower tier lienor?”) – YES. Because of the next part – (“I know the owner should be getting all the proper releases in order to give themselves a proper payment defense, but . . .”). The “but” part is not a good reason to make a change. It is frustrating, “but” everyone has a job to do and the Owner saving a buck by being his own lawyer and getting hosed is no different than a CG saving a buck by being their own lawyer and getting hosed. Hard to legislate away ignorance.
As for Mikes response, I agree - getting a persecutor to give a damn is worthless. The best recourse I’ve found is DBPR. Free, and causes insufferable pain to the contractor. It has always resulted in payment for me because the crappy contractor needs their ticket so they can continue cheating others.

https://www.npw-law.com/
<image003.png>

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 3:03 PM
To: 'clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org' <clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org>
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] 713.346: Time to let Owners in on the party?

Hi Larry!!!!! :0)

http://www.kubickidraper.com/
<image005.jpg>
Michelle M. Kronehttp://www.kubickidraper.com/staff_detail11.php?MemberID=33
Shareholder
Board Certified Construction Lawyer
Direct  (239) 461-8103
Fax      (239) 939-0700
mmk@kubickidraper.commailto:mmk@kubickidraper.com
13350 Metro Parkway Suite 401http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=13350%20Metro%20Parkway%20Suite%20401+Fort%20Myers,+Florida+33966
Fort Myers, Florida 33966http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=13350%20Metro%20Parkway%20Suite%20401+Fort%20Myers,+Florida+33966

                                            <https://www.linkedin.com/company/kubicki-draper/>

<image006.png>
https://twitter.com/KubickiDraper
<image007.png>

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 2:54 PM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] 713.346: Time to let Owners in on the party?

You only include the “scary seeming remedies”  (whatever those are) when the contract is drafted within a week of Halloween.  😊

Larry R. Leiby
Larry R. Leiby, Esq.
Adjunct Professor, Florida International University College of Law
Florida Bar Board Certified Construction Law Expert
Emeritus Fellow, American College of Commercial Arbitrators

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 2:50 PM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] 713.346: Time to let Owners in on the party?

Presently my take away from this scenario is that when drafting a contract on behalf of an owner you should always include a specific payment indemnity with lots of scary seeming remedies.

Sincerely,

Peter B. Rowell
Board Certified Construction Attorney
The Law Office of Peter B. Rowell, P.A.
8950 S.W. 74th Court Suite 2201 A-71
Miami, Florida 33156
Phone: (305) 998-9657
<image008.jpg>
This e-mail communication (including any attachments) may contain legally privileged and confidential information intended solely for the use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, you should immediately cease reading this message and delete it from your system. Any unauthorized reading, distribution, copying or other use of this communication (or its attachments) is strictly prohibited.

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 2:19 PM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] 713.346: Time to let Owners in on the party?

I recently encountered this- the bad actor admitted they had been paid and did not pay my client -  I was shocked at the lack of causes of action to chase the money – yes , it’s a crime , but that does not really get the money back

Kevin J. Taylor, Esq.
Kevin J. Taylor, P.A.
2455 East Sunrise Boulevard
Suite 512
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 33304
954-530-0889

<image009.png>
<image010.png>

www.kevintaylorlaw.comhttp://www.kevintaylorlaw.com/

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 2:04 PM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] 713.346: Time to let Owners in on the party?

It would be great to be able to plead the permissive inference in Fla. Stat. § 713.345(1)(c) and not try to “shoehorn” it into a cause of action. Can’t be the basis for a civil theft claim.

Thank you,
Jack
Jack Taylor, Esq.
Associate Attorney

Williams Law Firm
212 W. Bay Ave
Longwood, FL 32750
Telephone: 407-926-4100

Jack@WCLfirm.commailto:gtwlaw@ymail.com
www.WCLFirm.comhttp://www.wclfirm.com/
<image011.jpg>

In some circumstances this firm may be deemed a “debt collector” as defined by the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act and other applicable law. In such a case, this is an attempt to collect a debt. Any communication obtained may be used for that purpose.

Important – Williams Law Firm utilizes spam and junk email filtration applications in its email information systems. These systems may prevent or delay delivery of certain email communications. If you do not receive a response to an email communication within two business days, please contact the intended recipient via phone.
This email message including attachments, if any, is intended for the use of the individual or entity named above and may contain attorney-client confidential and/or privileged information.  If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, use, disclosure, copying, or distribution is strictly prohibited.  If you have received this email message in error, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message including attachments.  Thank you.
Pursuant to federal regulations imposed on practitioners who render tax advice ("Circular 230"), we are required to advise you that any tax advice contained herein is not intended or written to be used for the purpose of avoiding tax penalties that may be imposed by the Internal Revenue Service.  If this advice is or is intended to be used or referred to in promoting, marketing or recommending a partnership or other entity, investment plan or arrangement, the regulations under Circular 230 require that we advise you as follows: (1) this writing is not intended or written to be used, and it cannot be used, for the purpose of avoiding tax penalties that may be imposed on a taxpayer; (2) the advice was written to support the promotion or marketing of the transaction(s) or matter(s) addressed by the written advice; and (3) the taxpayer should seek advice based on the taxpayer's particular circumstances from an independent tax advisor.

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 1:31 PM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] 713.346: Time to let Owners in on the party?

I agree with both of you but think  713.346  would be the better place to make the change.

Notice: The information contained in this email transmission is intended by the sender for the use of the named individual or entity to which it is directed and may contain information that is privileged or otherwise confidential. It is not intended for transmission to, or receipt by, anyone other than the named addressee (or a person authorized to deliver it to the named addressee). It should not be copied or forwarded to any unauthorized persons. If you have received this electronic mail transmission in error, please delete it from your system without copying or forwarding it, and notify the sender of the error by reply email or by calling Cobb Cole at 386-255-8171, so that we can update our address records accordingly.

CLC-Discussion mailing list
CLC-Discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/clc-discussion

The Trump supporters should not worry. Biden is running against a guy named George for the Senate which he confirmed again last week. Have you heard about a guy named Bubulinsky?

Probably should keep politics off the CLC discussion forum.

Beth-Ann Schulman
Boyd & Jenerette PA
bschulman@boydjen.com
Direct: 407-309-4755
Cell: 407-701-3033

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org on behalf of RPPTL CLC-Discussion clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 7:53:40 PM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] 713.346: Time to let Owners in on the party?

Wow. All you Republicans are worried about protecting consumers? My subs and suppliers must strictly comply but close enough is ok for consumers? Change the law? Didn’t hear this about 558. You go Rob. Biden in 2020!

Jeffrey L Price
NPWC, PA
5216 SW 91st Dr., Gainesville FL
352-373-9031

On Oct 28, 2020, at 4:23 PM, RPPTL CLC-Discussion clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org wrote:



If Jeff says we shouldn’t do it, now I KNOW it needs to happen.

In all seriousness though, I think it would be good public policy all around to add it.  It doesn’t hurt any of the subs or suppliers we represent.  They still have valid liens.  It adds some consumer protection for the (perhaps lazy/cheap, or just helplessly uninformed) owner.  It adds another tool in the tool box for us to use and possibly have a fee award.  The only person it’s bad for is the GC that didn’t pay his subs/suppliers.  Even if they had a legitimate reason for non-payment, it probably shouldn’t be the owner’s fight.

<image002.jpg>

Robert E. Doan

Board Certified Construction Attorney

Supreme Court Certified Circuit Civil Mediator

231 N. Woodland Blvd.

DeLand, FL 32720

(P) 386-736-7700 | (F) 386-785-1549

Offices In Daytona Beach and DeLand

Websitehttp://www.cobbcole.com/ | Biohttp://www.cobbcole.com/The-Cobb-Cole-Team/Robert-E-Doan.shtml | vCardhttp://www.cobbcole.com/content/includes/vCards/Robert-E-Doan.vcf

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 3:54 PM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] 713.346: Time to let Owners in on the party?

In response to Rob’s original question (“Can anyone think of a compelling reason why 713.346 should not be amended to add a statutory cause of action (with a right to prevailing party fees) for an Owner who is harmed by a lienor’s failure to pay a lower tier lienor?”) – YES. Because of the next part – (“I know the owner should be getting all the proper releases in order to give themselves a proper payment defense, but . . .”). The “but” part is not a good reason to make a change. It is frustrating, “but” everyone has a job to do and the Owner saving a buck by being his own lawyer and getting hosed is no different than a CG saving a buck by being their own lawyer and getting hosed. Hard to legislate away ignorance.

As for Mikes response, I agree - getting a persecutor to give a damn is worthless. The best recourse I’ve found is DBPR. Free, and causes insufferable pain to the contractor. It has always resulted in payment for me because the crappy contractor needs their ticket so they can continue cheating others.

https://www.npw-law.com/

<image003.png>

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 3:03 PM
To: 'clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org' <clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org>
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] 713.346: Time to let Owners in on the party?

Hi Larry!!!!! :0)

http://www.kubickidraper.com/

<image005.jpg>

Michelle M. Kronehttp://www.kubickidraper.com/staff_detail11.php?MemberID=33

Shareholder

Board Certified Construction Lawyer

Direct  (239) 461-8103

Fax      (239) 939-0700

mmk@kubickidraper.commailto:mmk@kubickidraper.com

13350 Metro Parkway Suite 401http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=13350%20Metro%20Parkway%20Suite%20401+Fort%20Myers,+Florida+33966

Fort Myers, Florida 33966http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=13350%20Metro%20Parkway%20Suite%20401+Fort%20Myers,+Florida+33966

                                            <https://www.linkedin.com/company/kubicki-draper/>

<image006.png>
https://twitter.com/KubickiDraper
<image007.png>

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 2:54 PM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] 713.346: Time to let Owners in on the party?

You only include the “scary seeming remedies”  (whatever those are) when the contract is drafted within a week of Halloween.  😊

Larry R. Leiby

Larry R. Leiby, Esq.

Adjunct Professor, Florida International University College of Law

Florida Bar Board Certified Construction Law Expert

Emeritus Fellow, American College of Commercial Arbitrators

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 2:50 PM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] 713.346: Time to let Owners in on the party?

Presently my take away from this scenario is that when drafting a contract on behalf of an owner you should always include a specific payment indemnity with lots of scary seeming remedies.

Sincerely,

Peter B. Rowell

Board Certified Construction Attorney

The Law Office of Peter B. Rowell, P.A.

8950 S.W. 74th Court Suite 2201 A-71

Miami, Florida 33156

Phone: (305) 998-9657

<image008.jpg>

This e-mail communication (including any attachments) may contain legally privileged and confidential information intended solely for the use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, you should immediately cease reading this message and delete it from your system. Any unauthorized reading, distribution, copying or other use of this communication (or its attachments) is strictly prohibited.

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 2:19 PM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] 713.346: Time to let Owners in on the party?

I recently encountered this- the bad actor admitted they had been paid and did not pay my client -  I was shocked at the lack of causes of action to chase the money – yes , it’s a crime , but that does not really get the money back

Kevin J. Taylor, Esq.

Kevin J. Taylor, P.A.

2455 East Sunrise Boulevard

Suite 512

Fort Lauderdale, Florida 33304

954-530-0889

<image009.png>
<image010.png>

www.kevintaylorlaw.comhttp://www.kevintaylorlaw.com/

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 2:04 PM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] 713.346: Time to let Owners in on the party?

It would be great to be able to plead the permissive inference in Fla. Stat. § 713.345(1)(c) and not try to “shoehorn” it into a cause of action. Can’t be the basis for a civil theft claim.

Thank you,

Jack

Jack Taylor, Esq.
Associate Attorney

Williams Law Firm
212 W. Bay Ave

Longwood, FL 32750
Telephone: 407-926-4100

Jack@WCLfirm.commailto:gtwlaw@ymail.com

www.WCLFirm.comhttp://www.wclfirm.com/

<image011.jpg>

In some circumstances this firm may be deemed a “debt collector” as defined by the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act and other applicable law. In such a case, this is an attempt to collect a debt. Any communication obtained may be used for that purpose.

Important – Williams Law Firm utilizes spam and junk email filtration applications in its email information systems. These systems may prevent or delay delivery of certain email communications. If you do not receive a response to an email communication within two business days, please contact the intended recipient via phone.

This email message including attachments, if any, is intended for the use of the individual or entity named above and may contain attorney-client confidential and/or privileged information.  If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, use, disclosure, copying, or distribution is strictly prohibited.  If you have received this email message in error, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message including attachments.  Thank you.

Pursuant to federal regulations imposed on practitioners who render tax advice ("Circular 230"), we are required to advise you that any tax advice contained herein is not intended or written to be used for the purpose of avoiding tax penalties that may be imposed by the Internal Revenue Service.  If this advice is or is intended to be used or referred to in promoting, marketing or recommending a partnership or other entity, investment plan or arrangement, the regulations under Circular 230 require that we advise you as follows: (1) this writing is not intended or written to be used, and it cannot be used, for the purpose of avoiding tax penalties that may be imposed on a taxpayer; (2) the advice was written to support the promotion or marketing of the transaction(s) or matter(s) addressed by the written advice; and (3) the taxpayer should seek advice based on the taxpayer's particular circumstances from an independent tax advisor.

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 1:31 PM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] 713.346: Time to let Owners in on the party?

I agree with both of you but think  713.346  would be the better place to make the change.

Notice: The information contained in this email transmission is intended by the sender for the use of the named individual or entity to which it is directed and may contain information that is privileged or otherwise confidential. It is not intended for transmission to, or receipt by, anyone other than the named addressee (or a person authorized to deliver it to the named addressee). It should not be copied or forwarded to any unauthorized persons. If you have received this electronic mail transmission in error, please delete it from your system without copying or forwarding it, and notify the sender of the error by reply email or by calling Cobb Cole at 386-255-8171, so that we can update our address records accordingly.

CLC-Discussion mailing list
CLC-Discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/clc-discussion

Important -Due to the recent restrictions arising as a result of COVID-19 (Coronavirus), we respectfully request that you send any documentation/correspondence electronically instead of via postal mail or fax, if you are able.

Boyd & Jenerette utilizes spam and junk email filtration applications in its email information systems. These systems may prevent or delay delivery of certain email communications. If you do not receive a timely response to an email communication, please contact the intended recipient via phone.

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The information and all attachments contained in this electronic communication are legally privileged and confidential information, subject to the attorney-client privilege and intended only for the use of the intended recipients. If the reader of this message is not an intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, use, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately of the error by return email and please permanently remove any copies of this message from your system and do not retain any copies, whether in electronic or physical form or otherwise.

Agreed, we should keep politics out.  God knows it pervades every other aspect of our lives these days!

But, on a lighter note, how about a Trump/Biden or Biden/Trump ticket? That would be entertaining. ☺

Stay safe everyone!

Gary L. Brown, Esq.
Partner
Board Certified in Construction Law
10360 West State Road 84
Ft. Lauderdale| FL 33324
954. 370.9970 |Office
954. 382.1988 |Fax
Biographyhttp://www.kelleykronenberg.com/attorney-profiles/gary-l-brown/ | Blog https://www.kelleykronenberg.com/attorney-profiles/gary-l-brown/#atrelated-posts1-tab |Websitehttp://www.kelleykronenberg.com/  | Email mailto:gbrown@kelleykronenberg.com  | LinkedInhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/garybrownlaw/ |Vcardhttp://www.kelleykronenberg.com/wp-content/themes/paperstreet/vcards/Gary%20L.%20Brown.vcf

[cid:image001.png@01D5C21E.EF7A3A30]
Important - Kelley Kronenberg utilizes spam and junk email filtration applications in its email information systems.  These systems may prevent or delay delivery of certain email communications.  If you do not receive a timely response to an email communication, please contact the intended recipient via phone in one of our office locations available herehttp://www.kelleykronenberg.com/offices/.

The information transmitted, including any attachments, is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited, and all liability arising therefrom is disclaimed. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Thank you

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2020 4:37 PM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] 713.346: Time to let Owners in on the party?

Agree that political issues do not belong on the message board.

ed

[Image removed by sender.]
Edward J. Kinberg
Attorney | Stewart Law CS, LLC.

p: 321-541-6845 a: 7341 Office Park Place, Suite 202, Melbourne, FL 32940
w: StewartLawCS.comhttps://stewartlawcs.com/

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: Do not read this e-mail if you are not the intended recipient. This message and all attachments are confidential and may be protected by the attorney-client and other privileges. Any review, use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, copying, disclosure or distribution by persons other than the intended recipients is prohibited and may be unlawful. You must delete this message and any copy of it (in any form) without disclosing it if you believe this message has been sent to you in error. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify us by reply e-mail, by forwarding this to desirestewart@stewartlawcs.commailto:desirestewart@stewartlawcs.com or by telephone at (321)541-6845.

On Wed, Oct 28, 2020 at 8:24 PM RPPTL CLC-Discussion <clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org> wrote:
The Trump supporters should not worry. Biden is running against a guy named George for the Senate which he confirmed again last week. Have you heard about a guy named Bubulinsky?

Probably should keep politics off the CLC discussion forum.

Beth-Ann Schulman
Boyd & Jenerette PA
bschulman@boydjen.commailto:bschulman@boydjen.com
Direct: 407-309-4755
Cell: 407-701-3033

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> on behalf of RPPTL CLC-Discussion <clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org>
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 7:53:40 PM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org>
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] 713.346: Time to let Owners in on the party?

Wow. All you Republicans are worried about protecting consumers? My subs and suppliers must strictly comply but close enough is ok for consumers? Change the law? Didn’t hear this about 558. You go Rob. Biden in 2020!
Jeffrey L Price
NPWC, PA
5216 SW 91st Dr., Gainesville FL
352-373-9031

On Oct 28, 2020, at 4:23 PM, RPPTL CLC-Discussion <clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org> wrote:


If Jeff says we shouldn’t do it, now I KNOW it needs to happen.

In all seriousness though, I think it would be good public policy all around to add it.  It doesn’t hurt any of the subs or suppliers we represent.  They still have valid liens.  It adds some consumer protection for the (perhaps lazy/cheap, or just helplessly uninformed) owner.  It adds another tool in the tool box for us to use and possibly have a fee award.  The only person it’s bad for is the GC that didn’t pay his subs/suppliers.  Even if they had a legitimate reason for non-payment, it probably shouldn’t be the owner’s fight.

<image002.jpg>

Robert E. Doan

Board Certified Construction Attorney

Supreme Court Certified Circuit Civil Mediator

231 N. Woodland Blvd.

DeLand, FL 32720

(P) 386-736-7700 | (F) 386-785-1549

Offices In Daytona Beach and DeLand

Websitehttp://www.cobbcole.com/ | Biohttp://www.cobbcole.com/The-Cobb-Cole-Team/Robert-E-Doan.shtml | vCardhttp://www.cobbcole.com/content/includes/vCards/Robert-E-Doan.vcf

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 3:54 PM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] 713.346: Time to let Owners in on the party?

In response to Rob’s original question (“Can anyone think of a compelling reason why 713.346 should not be amended to add a statutory cause of action (with a right to prevailing party fees) for an Owner who is harmed by a lienor’s failure to pay a lower tier lienor?”) – YES. Because of the next part – (“I know the owner should be getting all the proper releases in order to give themselves a proper payment defense, but . . .”). The “but” part is not a good reason to make a change. It is frustrating, “but” everyone has a job to do and the Owner saving a buck by being his own lawyer and getting hosed is no different than a CG saving a buck by being their own lawyer and getting hosed. Hard to legislate away ignorance.

As for Mikes response, I agree - getting a persecutor to give a damn is worthless. The best recourse I’ve found is DBPR. Free, and causes insufferable pain to the contractor. It has always resulted in payment for me because the crappy contractor needs their ticket so they can continue cheating others.

<image003.png>

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 3:03 PM
To: 'clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org' <clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org>
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] 713.346: Time to let Owners in on the party?

Hi Larry!!!!! :0)

<image005.jpg>

Michelle M. Kronehttp://www.kubickidraper.com/staff_detail11.php?MemberID=33

Shareholder

Board Certified Construction Lawyer

Direct  (239) 461-8103

Fax      (239) 939-0700

mmk@kubickidraper.commailto:mmk@kubickidraper.com

13350 Metro Parkway Suite 401http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=13350%20Metro%20Parkway%20Suite%20401+Fort%20Myers,+Florida+33966

Fort Myers, Florida 33966http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=13350%20Metro%20Parkway%20Suite%20401+Fort%20Myers,+Florida+33966

<image006.png>
https://twitter.com/KubickiDraper
<image007.png>https://twitter.com/KubickiDraper

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 2:54 PM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] 713.346: Time to let Owners in on the party?

You only include the “scary seeming remedies”  (whatever those are) when the contract is drafted within a week of Halloween.  😊

Larry R. Leiby

Larry R. Leiby, Esq.

Adjunct Professor, Florida International University College of Law

Florida Bar Board Certified Construction Law Expert

Emeritus Fellow, American College of Commercial Arbitrators

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 2:50 PM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] 713.346: Time to let Owners in on the party?

Presently my take away from this scenario is that when drafting a contract on behalf of an owner you should always include a specific payment indemnity with lots of scary seeming remedies.

Sincerely,

Peter B. Rowell

Board Certified Construction Attorney

The Law Office of Peter B. Rowell, P.A.

8950 S.W. 74th Court Suite 2201 A-71

Miami, Florida 33156

Phone: (305) 998-9657
<image008.jpg>

This e-mail communication (including any attachments) may contain legally privileged and confidential information intended solely for the use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, you should immediately cease reading this message and delete it from your system. Any unauthorized reading, distribution, copying or other use of this communication (or its attachments) is strictly prohibited.

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 2:19 PM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] 713.346: Time to let Owners in on the party?

I recently encountered this- the bad actor admitted they had been paid and did not pay my client -  I was shocked at the lack of causes of action to chase the money – yes , it’s a crime , but that does not really get the money back

Kevin J. Taylor, Esq.

Kevin J. Taylor, P.A.

2455 East Sunrise Boulevard

Suite 512

Fort Lauderdale, Florida 33304

954-530-0889

<image009.png>
<image010.png>

www.kevintaylorlaw.comhttp://www.kevintaylorlaw.com/

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 2:04 PM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] 713.346: Time to let Owners in on the party?

It would be great to be able to plead the permissive inference in Fla. Stat. § 713.345(1)(c) and not try to “shoehorn” it into a cause of action. Can’t be the basis for a civil theft claim.

Thank you,

Jack

Jack Taylor, Esq.
Associate Attorney

Williams Law Firm
212 W. Bay Ave

Longwood, FL 32750
Telephone: 407-926-4100

Jack@WCLfirm.commailto:gtwlaw@ymail.com

www.WCLFirm.comhttp://www.wclfirm.com/
<image011.jpg>

In some circumstances this firm may be deemed a “debt collector” as defined by the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act and other applicable law. In such a case, this is an attempt to collect a debt. Any communication obtained may be used for that purpose.

Important – Williams Law Firm utilizes spam and junk email filtration applications in its email information systems. These systems may prevent or delay delivery of certain email communications. If you do not receive a response to an email communication within two business days, please contact the intended recipient via phone.

This email message including attachments, if any, is intended for the use of the individual or entity named above and may contain attorney-client confidential and/or privileged information.  If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, use, disclosure, copying, or distribution is strictly prohibited.  If you have received this email message in error, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message including attachments.  Thank you.

Pursuant to federal regulations imposed on practitioners who render tax advice ("Circular 230"), we are required to advise you that any tax advice contained herein is not intended or written to be used for the purpose of avoiding tax penalties that may be imposed by the Internal Revenue Service.  If this advice is or is intended to be used or referred to in promoting, marketing or recommending a partnership or other entity, investment plan or arrangement, the regulations under Circular 230 require that we advise you as follows: (1) this writing is not intended or written to be used, and it cannot be used, for the purpose of avoiding tax penalties that may be imposed on a taxpayer; (2) the advice was written to support the promotion or marketing of the transaction(s) or matter(s) addressed by the written advice; and (3) the taxpayer should seek advice based on the taxpayer's particular circumstances from an independent tax advisor.

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 1:31 PM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] 713.346: Time to let Owners in on the party?

I agree with both of you but think  713.346  would be the better place to make the change.

Notice: The information contained in this email transmission is intended by the sender for the use of the named individual or entity to which it is directed and may contain information that is privileged or otherwise confidential. It is not intended for transmission to, or receipt by, anyone other than the named addressee (or a person authorized to deliver it to the named addressee). It should not be copied or forwarded to any unauthorized persons. If you have received this electronic mail transmission in error, please delete it from your system without copying or forwarding it, and notify the sender of the error by reply email or by calling Cobb Cole at 386-255-8171, so that we can update our address records accordingly.

CLC-Discussion mailing list
CLC-Discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:CLC-Discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/clc-discussion

Important -Due to the recent restrictions arising as a result of COVID-19 (Coronavirus), we respectfully request that you send any documentation/correspondence electronically instead of via postal mail or fax, if you are able.

Boyd & Jenerette utilizes spam and junk email filtration applications in its email information systems. These systems may prevent or delay delivery of certain email communications. If you do not receive a timely response to an email communication, please contact the intended recipient via phone.

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The information and all attachments contained in this electronic communication are legally privileged and confidential information, subject to the attorney-client privilege and intended only for the use of the intended recipients. If the reader of this message is not an intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, use, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately of the error by return email and please permanently remove any copies of this message from your system and do not retain any copies, whether in electronic or physical form or otherwise.

CLC-Discussion mailing list
CLC-Discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:CLC-Discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/clc-discussion

Shopping for an environmental expert on defects of newly constructed landfill.  Any suggestions are appreciated.

Happy Halloween to all.

Michael E. Milne, Esq.
Board Certified Construction Lawyer and Founder
[logo]
WE HAVE MOVED!!!
PLEASE MAKE NOTE OF OUR NEW ADDRESS BELOW:
301 E. Pine Street
Suite 525
Orlando, FL 32801
Main: (321) 558-7700
Cell: (321) 947-8830
www.milnelawgroup.comhttp://www.milnelawgroup.com/
[cid:image004.png@01D6AEA9.F41289D0]
This e-mail is intended only for the individual(s) or entity(s) named within the message. This e-mail might contain legally privileged and confidential information. If you properly received this e-mail as a client or retained expert, please hold it in confidence to protect the attorney-client or work product privileges. Should the intended recipient forward or disclose this message to another person or party, that action could constitute a waiver of the attorney-client privilege. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is prohibited by the sender and to do so might constitute a violation of the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. section 2510-2521. If this communication was received in error we apologize for the intrusion. Please notify us by reply e-mail and delete the original message without reading same. Nothing in this e-mail message shall, in and of itself, create an attorney-client relationship with the sender.

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Friday, October 30, 2020 10:24 AM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] 713.346: Time to let Owners in on the party?

Agreed, we should keep politics out.  God knows it pervades every other aspect of our lives these days!

But, on a lighter note, how about a Trump/Biden or Biden/Trump ticket? That would be entertaining. ☺

Stay safe everyone!

Gary L. Brown, Esq.
Partner
Board Certified in Construction Law
10360 West State Road 84
Ft. Lauderdale| FL 33324
954. 370.9970 |Office
954. 382.1988 |Fax
Biographyhttp://www.kelleykronenberg.com/attorney-profiles/gary-l-brown/ | Blog https://www.kelleykronenberg.com/attorney-profiles/gary-l-brown/#atrelated-posts1-tab |Websitehttp://www.kelleykronenberg.com/  | Email mailto:gbrown@kelleykronenberg.com  | LinkedInhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/garybrownlaw/ |Vcardhttp://www.kelleykronenberg.com/wp-content/themes/paperstreet/vcards/Gary%20L.%20Brown.vcf

[cid:image001.png@01D5C21E.EF7A3A30]
Important - Kelley Kronenberg utilizes spam and junk email filtration applications in its email information systems.  These systems may prevent or delay delivery of certain email communications.  If you do not receive a timely response to an email communication, please contact the intended recipient via phone in one of our office locations available herehttp://www.kelleykronenberg.com/offices/.

The information transmitted, including any attachments, is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited, and all liability arising therefrom is disclaimed. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Thank you

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2020 4:37 PM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] 713.346: Time to let Owners in on the party?

Agree that political issues do not belong on the message board.

ed

[Image removed by sender.]
Edward J. Kinberg
Attorney | Stewart Law CS, LLC.

p: 321-541-6845 a: 7341 Office Park Place, Suite 202, Melbourne, FL 32940
w: StewartLawCS.comhttps://stewartlawcs.com/

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: Do not read this e-mail if you are not the intended recipient. This message and all attachments are confidential and may be protected by the attorney-client and other privileges. Any review, use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, copying, disclosure or distribution by persons other than the intended recipients is prohibited and may be unlawful. You must delete this message and any copy of it (in any form) without disclosing it if you believe this message has been sent to you in error. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify us by reply e-mail, by forwarding this to desirestewart@stewartlawcs.commailto:desirestewart@stewartlawcs.com or by telephone at (321)541-6845.

On Wed, Oct 28, 2020 at 8:24 PM RPPTL CLC-Discussion <clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org> wrote:
The Trump supporters should not worry. Biden is running against a guy named George for the Senate which he confirmed again last week. Have you heard about a guy named Bubulinsky?

Probably should keep politics off the CLC discussion forum.

Beth-Ann Schulman
Boyd & Jenerette PA
bschulman@boydjen.commailto:bschulman@boydjen.com
Direct: 407-309-4755
Cell: 407-701-3033

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> on behalf of RPPTL CLC-Discussion <clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org>
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 7:53:40 PM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org>
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] 713.346: Time to let Owners in on the party?

Wow. All you Republicans are worried about protecting consumers? My subs and suppliers must strictly comply but close enough is ok for consumers? Change the law? Didn’t hear this about 558. You go Rob. Biden in 2020!
Jeffrey L Price
NPWC, PA
5216 SW 91st Dr., Gainesville FL
352-373-9031

On Oct 28, 2020, at 4:23 PM, RPPTL CLC-Discussion <clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org> wrote:


If Jeff says we shouldn’t do it, now I KNOW it needs to happen.

In all seriousness though, I think it would be good public policy all around to add it.  It doesn’t hurt any of the subs or suppliers we represent.  They still have valid liens.  It adds some consumer protection for the (perhaps lazy/cheap, or just helplessly uninformed) owner.  It adds another tool in the tool box for us to use and possibly have a fee award.  The only person it’s bad for is the GC that didn’t pay his subs/suppliers.  Even if they had a legitimate reason for non-payment, it probably shouldn’t be the owner’s fight.

<image002.jpg>

Robert E. Doan

Board Certified Construction Attorney

Supreme Court Certified Circuit Civil Mediator

231 N. Woodland Blvd.

DeLand, FL 32720

(P) 386-736-7700 | (F) 386-785-1549

Offices In Daytona Beach and DeLand

Websitehttp://www.cobbcole.com/ | Biohttp://www.cobbcole.com/The-Cobb-Cole-Team/Robert-E-Doan.shtml | vCardhttp://www.cobbcole.com/content/includes/vCards/Robert-E-Doan.vcf

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 3:54 PM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] 713.346: Time to let Owners in on the party?

In response to Rob’s original question (“Can anyone think of a compelling reason why 713.346 should not be amended to add a statutory cause of action (with a right to prevailing party fees) for an Owner who is harmed by a lienor’s failure to pay a lower tier lienor?”) – YES. Because of the next part – (“I know the owner should be getting all the proper releases in order to give themselves a proper payment defense, but . . .”). The “but” part is not a good reason to make a change. It is frustrating, “but” everyone has a job to do and the Owner saving a buck by being his own lawyer and getting hosed is no different than a CG saving a buck by being their own lawyer and getting hosed. Hard to legislate away ignorance.

As for Mikes response, I agree - getting a persecutor to give a damn is worthless. The best recourse I’ve found is DBPR. Free, and causes insufferable pain to the contractor. It has always resulted in payment for me because the crappy contractor needs their ticket so they can continue cheating others.

<image003.png>

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 3:03 PM
To: 'clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org' <clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org>
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] 713.346: Time to let Owners in on the party?

Hi Larry!!!!! :0)

<image005.jpg>

Michelle M. Kronehttp://www.kubickidraper.com/staff_detail11.php?MemberID=33

Shareholder

Board Certified Construction Lawyer

Direct  (239) 461-8103

Fax      (239) 939-0700

mmk@kubickidraper.commailto:mmk@kubickidraper.com

13350 Metro Parkway Suite 401http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=13350%20Metro%20Parkway%20Suite%20401+Fort%20Myers,+Florida+33966

Fort Myers, Florida 33966http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=13350%20Metro%20Parkway%20Suite%20401+Fort%20Myers,+Florida+33966

<image006.png>
https://twitter.com/KubickiDraper
<image007.png>https://twitter.com/KubickiDraper

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 2:54 PM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] 713.346: Time to let Owners in on the party?

You only include the “scary seeming remedies”  (whatever those are) when the contract is drafted within a week of Halloween.  😊

Larry R. Leiby

Larry R. Leiby, Esq.

Adjunct Professor, Florida International University College of Law

Florida Bar Board Certified Construction Law Expert

Emeritus Fellow, American College of Commercial Arbitrators

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 2:50 PM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] 713.346: Time to let Owners in on the party?

Presently my take away from this scenario is that when drafting a contract on behalf of an owner you should always include a specific payment indemnity with lots of scary seeming remedies.

Sincerely,

Peter B. Rowell

Board Certified Construction Attorney

The Law Office of Peter B. Rowell, P.A.

8950 S.W. 74th Court Suite 2201 A-71

Miami, Florida 33156

Phone: (305) 998-9657
<image008.jpg>

This e-mail communication (including any attachments) may contain legally privileged and confidential information intended solely for the use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, you should immediately cease reading this message and delete it from your system. Any unauthorized reading, distribution, copying or other use of this communication (or its attachments) is strictly prohibited.

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 2:19 PM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] 713.346: Time to let Owners in on the party?

I recently encountered this- the bad actor admitted they had been paid and did not pay my client -  I was shocked at the lack of causes of action to chase the money – yes , it’s a crime , but that does not really get the money back

Kevin J. Taylor, Esq.

Kevin J. Taylor, P.A.

2455 East Sunrise Boulevard

Suite 512

Fort Lauderdale, Florida 33304

954-530-0889

<image009.png>
<image010.png>

www.kevintaylorlaw.comhttp://www.kevintaylorlaw.com/

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 2:04 PM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] 713.346: Time to let Owners in on the party?

It would be great to be able to plead the permissive inference in Fla. Stat. § 713.345(1)(c) and not try to “shoehorn” it into a cause of action. Can’t be the basis for a civil theft claim.

Thank you,

Jack

Jack Taylor, Esq.
Associate Attorney

Williams Law Firm
212 W. Bay Ave

Longwood, FL 32750
Telephone: 407-926-4100

Jack@WCLfirm.commailto:gtwlaw@ymail.com

www.WCLFirm.comhttp://www.wclfirm.com/
<image011.jpg>

In some circumstances this firm may be deemed a “debt collector” as defined by the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act and other applicable law. In such a case, this is an attempt to collect a debt. Any communication obtained may be used for that purpose.

Important – Williams Law Firm utilizes spam and junk email filtration applications in its email information systems. These systems may prevent or delay delivery of certain email communications. If you do not receive a response to an email communication within two business days, please contact the intended recipient via phone.

This email message including attachments, if any, is intended for the use of the individual or entity named above and may contain attorney-client confidential and/or privileged information.  If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, use, disclosure, copying, or distribution is strictly prohibited.  If you have received this email message in error, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message including attachments.  Thank you.

Pursuant to federal regulations imposed on practitioners who render tax advice ("Circular 230"), we are required to advise you that any tax advice contained herein is not intended or written to be used for the purpose of avoiding tax penalties that may be imposed by the Internal Revenue Service.  If this advice is or is intended to be used or referred to in promoting, marketing or recommending a partnership or other entity, investment plan or arrangement, the regulations under Circular 230 require that we advise you as follows: (1) this writing is not intended or written to be used, and it cannot be used, for the purpose of avoiding tax penalties that may be imposed on a taxpayer; (2) the advice was written to support the promotion or marketing of the transaction(s) or matter(s) addressed by the written advice; and (3) the taxpayer should seek advice based on the taxpayer's particular circumstances from an independent tax advisor.

From: clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion-bounces@lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 1:31 PM
To: clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:clc-discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] 713.346: Time to let Owners in on the party?

I agree with both of you but think  713.346  would be the better place to make the change.

Notice: The information contained in this email transmission is intended by the sender for the use of the named individual or entity to which it is directed and may contain information that is privileged or otherwise confidential. It is not intended for transmission to, or receipt by, anyone other than the named addressee (or a person authorized to deliver it to the named addressee). It should not be copied or forwarded to any unauthorized persons. If you have received this electronic mail transmission in error, please delete it from your system without copying or forwarding it, and notify the sender of the error by reply email or by calling Cobb Cole at 386-255-8171, so that we can update our address records accordingly.

CLC-Discussion mailing list
CLC-Discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:CLC-Discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/clc-discussion

Important -Due to the recent restrictions arising as a result of COVID-19 (Coronavirus), we respectfully request that you send any documentation/correspondence electronically instead of via postal mail or fax, if you are able.

Boyd & Jenerette utilizes spam and junk email filtration applications in its email information systems. These systems may prevent or delay delivery of certain email communications. If you do not receive a timely response to an email communication, please contact the intended recipient via phone.

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The information and all attachments contained in this electronic communication are legally privileged and confidential information, subject to the attorney-client privilege and intended only for the use of the intended recipients. If the reader of this message is not an intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, use, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately of the error by return email and please permanently remove any copies of this message from your system and do not retain any copies, whether in electronic or physical form or otherwise.

CLC-Discussion mailing list
CLC-Discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.orgmailto:CLC-Discussion@lists.flabarrpptl.org
http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/clc-discussion